Discussion III about the Suspension List
August 29th, 2023 at 11:02:43 AM
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Quote: TigerWuQuote: billryanDo moderators now get to make up new rules?
I think a moderator's job is to enforce existing rules, not create new ones when something displeases them.
The race to the bottom continues.
link to original post
If you're talking about the thread with EB's name in the title, it seems like it could be a very loose application of this rule:Quote:No bullying/trolling: Members are expected to act like ladies and gentlemen. Members may not be overly divisive or abusive to another member. This includes starting a thread only the for purpose of attacking another member. (Added 2/24/2012). This also includes threats against another member. (added 9/3/12) If the totality of one's posts is one huge lie, then it becomes trolling. (Added 2/2/22)
Like I said, VERY loose application, and I'm not saying I agree with it one way or the other.
link to original post
In my brief stint as a moderator, I understood the job to be interpretation and application of the rules that existed, even where I did not always agree with them. I also applied moderation in moderation. Less is more.
I see that Gordon just admonished me under his new rule, and I further understand that THIS thread is where we discuss moderator issues.
So. copying this here for completeness, before commenting.... Don't worry. I won't copy the bit where I offended his sensitivities...
Quote: gordonm888
This thread is closed.
The following is a warning;
Gordon's Rule: You may NOT create a thread with another member's name in the thread title -with specific exceptions: R.I.P. threads and threads that are meant to praise or congratulate someone for some specific reason. In the future, creating a thread with another member's name in the title for malicious or mischievous reasons will be interpreted by me as harassment or trolling and will usually result in a suspension under the existing forum rules.
And the fact that this thread was created by OnceDear and titled "congratulating EvenBob" is not sufficient to fool anyone into believing that this was a thread meant to congratulate EvenBob. It is meant to bypass the action of the moderators in closing a different thread and is intended to continue a campaign of criticism.
I'd like to apologise for breaking the rule that none of us knew existed.
The raison d'etre for the new thread was NOT in any way to attack anyone. It was my attempt to split off yet another hijack of the thread which I'm recently active in. We had the situation where we were all happily discussing EvenBob's Method and its application to roulette. That thread got closed at EvenBob's request ( Actually, I think there was a previous one also closed. Clearly EvenBob had decided that he did not wish to discuss his roulette method and since he asked for the thread to be closed, we were not to discuss it either. Then a VERY similar thread was opened by EvenBob to discuss the allpication of his method to Baccarat. But lo and behold, EvenBob decided that we were no longer to use that thread and he asked for that to be closed. He COULD have simply stopped responding there, but no. He wanted us all to shut up on the topic.
But then what.... He repeatedly mentions or discusses his prowess in a wholly unrelated thread which I had opened. He and others had already been asked to not hijack the thread, including a warning by a moderator not to do so.
Now. Thread hijacks are not a capital offence and sometimes threads drift and meander a bit off topic. But for EvenBob to intentionally discuss in one thread, what he had asked to have shut down in another, struck me as at best discourteous to us all in that thread.
So, without any Mod powers, I did what we members are supposed to be allowed to do: I opened a new thread for the benefit of those who want to continue to debate EvenBob's prowess. I have to say, that if the moderators are asked by a member to close a thread, there should be some consideration of other members who might want to stay active in that thread. EvenBob could have been told something like
"NO. we won't close this thread that you started. You do not own this thread. If you don't want to participate in this thread, you are welcome to block it"
This closing of threads power never used to be wielded with anything like the enthusiasm noted lately.
Psalm 25:16
Turn to me and be gracious to me, for I am lonely and afflicted.
Proverbs 18:2
A fool finds no satisfaction in trying to understand, for he would rather express his own opinion.
August 29th, 2023 at 11:07:19 AM
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Quote: billryanDo moderators now get to make up new rules?
I think a moderator's job is to enforce existing rules, not create new ones when something displeases them.
The race to the bottom continues.
link to original post
We don't need to make new rules.
Quote: Rule 0Just because a behavior is not on this list does not mean it will be tolerated or go unpunished. The administration reserves the right to punish any activity it deems disruptive to the forum, whether against these rules or not.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/info/rules/2-forum-rules/#post37215
May the cards fall in your favor.
August 29th, 2023 at 11:11:51 AM
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Quote: DieterQuote: billryanDo moderators now get to make up new rules?
I think a moderator's job is to enforce existing rules, not create new ones when something displeases them.
The race to the bottom continues.
link to original post
We don't need to make new rules.Quote: Rule 0Just because a behavior is not on this list does not mean it will be tolerated or go unpunished. The administration reserves the right to punish any activity it deems disruptive to the forum, whether against these rules or not.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/info/rules/2-forum-rules/#post37215
link to original post
I agree. But I think we have a moderator that thinks he can not only make up new rules, but can personalise them with his own name. There's a word for that, but it escapes me.
Maybe we can address the issue of members asking for threads to be closed, where other members might still wish to be active. Original posters don't own threads do they? They are able to block them or not post into them?
Is closing threads the new weapon of choice even where threads are absolutely on topic and within the rules?
Psalm 25:16
Turn to me and be gracious to me, for I am lonely and afflicted.
Proverbs 18:2
A fool finds no satisfaction in trying to understand, for he would rather express his own opinion.
August 29th, 2023 at 11:12:19 AM
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The power of a moderator is such that all he has to do is think something is a rule, and it is—no need to inform anyone until it is time to enforce it.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
August 29th, 2023 at 11:16:28 AM
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The power of a moderator is such that all he has to do is think something is a rule, and it is—no need to inform anyone until it is time to enforce it.
We played a board game in college geared to the stoner/drunkard community. The first rule was you could lie and cheat. It proceeded to list 132 more, complicated and complex rules and then simply stated that rule #1 superseded the rest in any dispute. We'd round up a few newbies, teach them the game and take it seriously until one of them was about to win and then we'd point out rule 1 and steal the game. Combinations of weed and Molsons added to the degree of fun.
We played a board game in college geared to the stoner/drunkard community. The first rule was you could lie and cheat. It proceeded to list 132 more, complicated and complex rules and then simply stated that rule #1 superseded the rest in any dispute. We'd round up a few newbies, teach them the game and take it seriously until one of them was about to win and then we'd point out rule 1 and steal the game. Combinations of weed and Molsons added to the degree of fun.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
August 29th, 2023 at 11:19:56 AM
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Quote: billryanThe power of a moderator is such that all he has to do is think something is a rule, and it is—no need to inform anyone until it is time to enforce it.
link to original post
It's a long standing convention here that moderators are representative of Wizard's intentions. I don't believe that Wizard is at all keen on the closure of threads except in quite extreme cases.
Again I say. why should any one member get his request granted for any active thread to be closed?
Psalm 25:16
Turn to me and be gracious to me, for I am lonely and afflicted.
Proverbs 18:2
A fool finds no satisfaction in trying to understand, for he would rather express his own opinion.
August 29th, 2023 at 11:22:36 AM
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Quote: billryanDo moderators now get to make up new rules?
I think a moderator's job is to enforce existing rules, not create new ones when something displeases them.
The race to the bottom continues.
link to original post
What I posted in another thread was this warning:
The following is a warning;
Gordon's Rule: You may NOT create a thread with another member's name in the thread title -with specific exceptions: R.I.P. threads and threads that are meant to praise or congratulate someone for some specific reason. In the future, creating a thread with another member's name in the title for malicious or mischievous reasons will be interpreted by me as harassment or trolling and will usually result in a suspension under the existing forum rules.
Actually, a basis for what I have stated is addressed in this forum rule, in which I have bolded the relevant passage:
Rule 12: No bullying/trolling: Members are expected to act like ladies and gentlemen. Members may not be overly divisive or abusive to another member. This includes starting a thread only for the purpose of attacking another member. (Added 2/24/2012). This also includes threats against another member. (added 9/3/12) If the totality of one's posts is one huge lie, then it becomes trolling. (Added 2/2/22)
To be clear, this is a warning by me about behavior (creating threads with the names of other members in the title for malicious or mischeivious purposes) that I will interpret as harassment or trolling, pursuant to the language in the above forum rule #12. I imagine this will be subject to review by Wizard and Dieter when they return to the forum.
IMO, we absolutely cannot have a forum in which members create threads with other member names in the title. OnceDear did this earlier today and I am warning people in unambiguous language that this will not be tolerated in the future.
Twice previously this month, you (billryan) have made posts advocating my removal as moderator, and now you have posted again challenging my authority as a moderator. If you wish to complain about me or my actions, I suggest that it would be more constructive and effective to send a PM to the Wizard.
So many better men, a few of them friends, are dead. And a thousand thousand slimy things live on, and so do I.
August 29th, 2023 at 11:36:58 AM
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Quote: OnceDearQuote: billryanThe power of a moderator is such that all he has to do is think something is a rule, and it is—no need to inform anyone until it is time to enforce it.
link to original post
It's a long standing convention here that moderators are representative of Wizard's intentions. I don't believe that Wizard is at all keen on the closure of threads except in quite extreme cases.
Again I say. why should any one member get his request granted for any active thread to be closed?
link to original post
I routinely close threads that violate forum rules. There is no real consideration, no discussion - if it's spam, it dies. If the topic violates the law, it dies.
Starting a thread primarily to hector or embarass a forum member would seem to be against the forum rules.
Once a thread is deemed to exist primarily for the harassment of an individual, and not for the forum's core focus of Vegas, math, and gambling, it seems reasonable to close the thread. (There are exceptions.)
Others probably have more eloquent explanations.
May the cards fall in your favor.
August 29th, 2023 at 11:41:06 AM
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Quote: gordonm888
Rule 12: No bullying/trolling: Members are expected to act like ladies and gentlemen. Members may not be overly divisive or abusive to another member. This includes starting a thread only for the purpose of attacking another member. (Added 2/24/2012). This also includes threats against another member. (added 9/3/12) If the totality of one's posts is one huge lie, then it becomes trolling. (Added 2/2/22)
link to original post
I think the OP of the thread with my name in it got off easy. I believe if Dieter was here he would have given the guy 30 days for such an obvious thread.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
August 29th, 2023 at 11:41:58 AM
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This is the thread for such discussions, and it's pretty obvious I'm far from alone in questioning your ability to do the role of moderator. I don't recall advocating for your removal. I don't think I did, but please post it if I did.
It's not my place to call for anyone to be fired, but it is my prerogative to question their calls, especially in this particular thread.
Be better.
It's not my place to call for anyone to be fired, but it is my prerogative to question their calls, especially in this particular thread.
Be better.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
August 29th, 2023 at 12:05:16 PM
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And a member asking for an active thread to be closed when it is not spam, violates no laws or rules, was opened by the person asking, so clearly not harrassing?Quote: DieterQuote: OnceDearQuote: billryanThe power of a moderator is such that all he has to do is think something is a rule, and it is—no need to inform anyone until it is time to enforce it.
link to original post
It's a long standing convention here that moderators are representative of Wizard's intentions. I don't believe that Wizard is at all keen on the closure of threads except in quite extreme cases.
Again I say. why should any one member get his request granted for any active thread to be closed?
link to original post
I routinely close threads that violate forum rules. There is no real consideration, no discussion - if it's spam, it dies. If the topic violates the law, it dies.
Starting a thread primarily to hector or embarass a forum member would seem to be against the forum rules.
Once a thread is deemed to exist primarily for the harassment of an individual, and not for the forum's core focus of Vegas, math, and gambling, it seems reasonable to close the thread. (There are exceptions.)
Others probably have more eloquent explanations.
link to original post
I understand Gordon closing the congratulations thread, albeit disagreeing with him. But what I really think is bang out of order is closing a number of threads started by EvenBob, closed at his request, while others still had stuff to contribute.
I say, he should have said "No EB. I know you opened this thread, but you don't get to dictate when it gets closed. If you no longer like the thread, block it"
You do recall, don't you, how unkeen Wizard has always been to close threads that are none of those 3 things you mentioned.?
Psalm 25:16
Turn to me and be gracious to me, for I am lonely and afflicted.
Proverbs 18:2
A fool finds no satisfaction in trying to understand, for he would rather express his own opinion.
August 29th, 2023 at 12:08:46 PM
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Just a random, quick THANK YOU to the moderators, and secret mods who work hard on a thankless task.
You generally do a great job and I forgive you your mistakes.
You generally do a great job and I forgive you your mistakes.
Psalm 25:16
Turn to me and be gracious to me, for I am lonely and afflicted.
Proverbs 18:2
A fool finds no satisfaction in trying to understand, for he would rather express his own opinion.
August 29th, 2023 at 12:18:17 PM
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Quote: OnceDearJust a random, quick THANK YOU to the moderators, and secret mods who work hard on a thankless task.
You generally do a great job and I forgive you your mistakes.
link to original post
My concern is that I am a secret mod.
So secret even I don't know!
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
August 29th, 2023 at 12:26:32 PM
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So. Gordon,
Why was this sewer of a thread closed?
EvenBob had said he was going to leave the thread, but could it not have been left as a courtesy of those who might wish to be active there, including newbies who might have questions?
Close and nuke spam threads: Rule breaking threads. Not long and vibrant ones
Why was this sewer of a thread closed?
Quote: EvenBob Bolding mineSo now you can say anything you want because I won't be coming back and reading this thread again and Gordon or Dieter or Mike if you want to shut this thing down and get rid of it, flush it down the toilet. Cancel it, make it go away, adios, sayonara..
Quote: gordonm888This thread is now closed.
EvenBob had said he was going to leave the thread, but could it not have been left as a courtesy of those who might wish to be active there, including newbies who might have questions?
Close and nuke spam threads: Rule breaking threads. Not long and vibrant ones
Psalm 25:16
Turn to me and be gracious to me, for I am lonely and afflicted.
Proverbs 18:2
A fool finds no satisfaction in trying to understand, for he would rather express his own opinion.
August 29th, 2023 at 12:34:13 PM
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Quote: OnceDearAnd a member asking for an active thread to be closed when it is not spam, violates no laws or rules, was opened by the person asking, so clearly not harrassing?Quote: DieterQuote: OnceDearQuote: billryanThe power of a moderator is such that all he has to do is think something is a rule, and it is—no need to inform anyone until it is time to enforce it.
link to original post
It's a long standing convention here that moderators are representative of Wizard's intentions. I don't believe that Wizard is at all keen on the closure of threads except in quite extreme cases.
Again I say. why should any one member get his request granted for any active thread to be closed?
link to original post
I routinely close threads that violate forum rules. There is no real consideration, no discussion - if it's spam, it dies. If the topic violates the law, it dies.
Starting a thread primarily to hector or embarass a forum member would seem to be against the forum rules.
Once a thread is deemed to exist primarily for the harassment of an individual, and not for the forum's core focus of Vegas, math, and gambling, it seems reasonable to close the thread. (There are exceptions.)
Others probably have more eloquent explanations.
link to original post
I understand Gordon closing the congratulations thread, albeit disagreeing with him. But what I really think is bang out of order is closing a number of threads started by EvenBob, closed at his request, while others still had stuff to contribute.
I say, he should have said "No EB. I know you opened this thread, but you don't get to dictate when it gets closed. If you no longer like the thread, block it"
You do recall, don't you, how unkeen Wizard has always been to close threads that are none of those 3 things you mentioned.?
link to original post
I know on at least one of the threads so described, the membership was polled and a significant number agreed that the thread should be closed.
On the others, I see little difference in substance, and inferred a similar popular opinion.
If I'm in error, I'm sure my due flogging will be swift and merciless.
May the cards fall in your favor.
August 29th, 2023 at 12:39:41 PM
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The following is a warning to all Moderators:
You may not all willy-nilly permanently shut down threads just because a member asks. That stifles people's ability to learn, comment, and question things. It's a form of censorship and controlling the narrative. Don't look or comment here, please!
If it's just a hassle to moderate a particular thread, then turn in your moderator hat.
There should be a strong compelling legitimate reason. There should be some serious thought when making that decision.
Legitimate reasons might include a situation that poses a threat to someone IRL.
Perhaps someone is no longer a member here and they can't respond to a controversial thread with their name attached to it.
Was The Wizard even consulted regarding EvenBob's request to shut down those threads he started? I have a feeling NO, or at least he didn't truly understand what was going on.
There is no such thing as MY thread once people view and post in that thread it belongs to everyone. If you want your own space simply use the Blog section.
Imagine if people started coming out of the woodwork asking for threads they started to be closed.
How many EvenBob threads have been closed down now? Bob is abusing the ability to get threads he started shut down as a tool to F%#C with us, and, or just because he doesn't like the facts presented showing his wrongness, and failed attempts at proving his claims.
You may not all willy-nilly permanently shut down threads just because a member asks. That stifles people's ability to learn, comment, and question things. It's a form of censorship and controlling the narrative. Don't look or comment here, please!
If it's just a hassle to moderate a particular thread, then turn in your moderator hat.
There should be a strong compelling legitimate reason. There should be some serious thought when making that decision.
Legitimate reasons might include a situation that poses a threat to someone IRL.
Perhaps someone is no longer a member here and they can't respond to a controversial thread with their name attached to it.
Was The Wizard even consulted regarding EvenBob's request to shut down those threads he started? I have a feeling NO, or at least he didn't truly understand what was going on.
There is no such thing as MY thread once people view and post in that thread it belongs to everyone. If you want your own space simply use the Blog section.
Imagine if people started coming out of the woodwork asking for threads they started to be closed.
How many EvenBob threads have been closed down now? Bob is abusing the ability to get threads he started shut down as a tool to F%#C with us, and, or just because he doesn't like the facts presented showing his wrongness, and failed attempts at proving his claims.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
August 29th, 2023 at 12:44:27 PM
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Remember Patrick Pearse
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
August 29th, 2023 at 12:48:20 PM
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In the past, MDawg created a satirical thread originally titled "The Faked Adventures of AxelWolf"
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/trip-reports/35408-the-adventures-of-axelwolf/
Wizard immediately removed the word 'Faked' from the title and eventually closed the thread. AxelWolf didn't object to those moderator actions.
There are several other precedents for disallowing and closing threads that name other forum members in the title or exist simply to attack another members. And there are precedents for handing out suspensions for creating such threads.
By the way, it was Dieter who permanently closed the EvenBob Roulette thread, not me. No belligerent objection from BillRyan on that occasion even though he had earlier twice posted that "the moderator must go" when I closed that thread down for a single day.
While I try to listen to all criticism and consider it objectively, I don't think there's a lot of consistency from the peanut gallery on this issue.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/trip-reports/35408-the-adventures-of-axelwolf/
Wizard immediately removed the word 'Faked' from the title and eventually closed the thread. AxelWolf didn't object to those moderator actions.
There are several other precedents for disallowing and closing threads that name other forum members in the title or exist simply to attack another members. And there are precedents for handing out suspensions for creating such threads.
By the way, it was Dieter who permanently closed the EvenBob Roulette thread, not me. No belligerent objection from BillRyan on that occasion even though he had earlier twice posted that "the moderator must go" when I closed that thread down for a single day.
While I try to listen to all criticism and consider it objectively, I don't think there's a lot of consistency from the peanut gallery on this issue.
So many better men, a few of them friends, are dead. And a thousand thousand slimy things live on, and so do I.
August 29th, 2023 at 12:50:49 PM
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Quote: AxelWolf
How many EvenBob threads have been closed down now? Bob is abusing the ability to get threads he started shut down as a tool to F%#C with us, and, or just because he doesn't like the facts presented showing his wrongness, and failed attempts at proving his claims.
link to original post
I said it a while ago... EB is a "made man" around these parts. He gets away with sooo much.
August 29th, 2023 at 12:55:57 PM
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Quote: gordonm888In the past, MDawg created a satirical thread originally titled "The Faked Adventures of AxelWolf"
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/trip-reports/35408-the-adventures-of-axelwolf/
Wizard immediately removed the word 'Faked' from the title and then eventually closed the thread.
There are several other precedents for disallowing and closing threads that name other forum members in the title or exist simply to attack another members. And precedents for handing out suspensions for this kind of behavior.
link to original post
Gordon,
I accept your reasoning for closing the congratulations thread, even though I believe you misinterpreted. But that's totally aside from closing vibrant threads just because a member asks.
I'm not going to beat you up on this. You made some judgements and acted on them. Been there, got the t-shirt.
All I ask is that you take the somewhat negative feedback on board for next time you think to shut down a thread, Any thread.
Psalm 25:16
Turn to me and be gracious to me, for I am lonely and afflicted.
Proverbs 18:2
A fool finds no satisfaction in trying to understand, for he would rather express his own opinion.
August 29th, 2023 at 12:58:51 PM
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What the heck does that have to do with EvenBob requesting threads he himself stated to be closed?Quote: gordonm888In the past, MDawg created a satirical thread originally titled "The Faked Adventures of AxelWolf"
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/trip-reports/35408-the-adventures-of-axelwolf/
Wizard immediately removed the word 'Faked' from the title and then eventually closed the thread.
There are several other precedents for disallowing and closing threads that name other forum members in the title or exist simply to attack another members. And precedents for handing out suspensions for this kind of behavior.
link to original post
I don't have an issue with you shutting down OD's thread it was an obvious NO, NO. He knows it.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
August 29th, 2023 at 1:03:27 PM
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Let's start polling what threads should be shut down and then take action based on the votes, I would love that. Care to guess what thread gets shut down first?Quote: DieterQuote: OnceDearAnd a member asking for an active thread to be closed when it is not spam, violates no laws or rules, was opened by the person asking, so clearly not harrassing?Quote: DieterQuote: OnceDearQuote: billryanThe power of a moderator is such that all he has to do is think something is a rule, and it is—no need to inform anyone until it is time to enforce it.
link to original post
It's a long standing convention here that moderators are representative of Wizard's intentions. I don't believe that Wizard is at all keen on the closure of threads except in quite extreme cases.
Again I say. why should any one member get his request granted for any active thread to be closed?
link to original post
I routinely close threads that violate forum rules. There is no real consideration, no discussion - if it's spam, it dies. If the topic violates the law, it dies.
Starting a thread primarily to hector or embarass a forum member would seem to be against the forum rules.
Once a thread is deemed to exist primarily for the harassment of an individual, and not for the forum's core focus of Vegas, math, and gambling, it seems reasonable to close the thread. (There are exceptions.)
Others probably have more eloquent explanations.
link to original post
I understand Gordon closing the congratulations thread, albeit disagreeing with him. But what I really think is bang out of order is closing a number of threads started by EvenBob, closed at his request, while others still had stuff to contribute.
I say, he should have said "No EB. I know you opened this thread, but you don't get to dictate when it gets closed. If you no longer like the thread, block it"
You do recall, don't you, how unkeen Wizard has always been to close threads that are none of those 3 things you mentioned.?
link to original post
I know on at least one of the threads so described, the membership was polled and a significant number agreed that the thread should be closed.
On the others, I see little difference in substance, and inferred a similar popular opinion.
If I'm in error, I'm sure my due flogging will be swift and merciless.
link to original post
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
August 29th, 2023 at 1:19:42 PM
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Quote: AxelWolfLet's start polling what threads should be shut down and then take action based on the votes, I would love that. Care to guess what thread gets shut down first?Quote: DieterQuote: OnceDearAnd a member asking for an active thread to be closed when it is not spam, violates no laws or rules, was opened by the person asking, so clearly not harrassing?Quote: DieterQuote: OnceDearQuote: billryanThe power of a moderator is such that all he has to do is think something is a rule, and it is—no need to inform anyone until it is time to enforce it.
link to original post
It's a long standing convention here that moderators are representative of Wizard's intentions. I don't believe that Wizard is at all keen on the closure of threads except in quite extreme cases.
Again I say. why should any one member get his request granted for any active thread to be closed?
link to original post
I routinely close threads that violate forum rules. There is no real consideration, no discussion - if it's spam, it dies. If the topic violates the law, it dies.
Starting a thread primarily to hector or embarass a forum member would seem to be against the forum rules.
Once a thread is deemed to exist primarily for the harassment of an individual, and not for the forum's core focus of Vegas, math, and gambling, it seems reasonable to close the thread. (There are exceptions.)
Others probably have more eloquent explanations.
link to original post
I understand Gordon closing the congratulations thread, albeit disagreeing with him. But what I really think is bang out of order is closing a number of threads started by EvenBob, closed at his request, while others still had stuff to contribute.
I say, he should have said "No EB. I know you opened this thread, but you don't get to dictate when it gets closed. If you no longer like the thread, block it"
You do recall, don't you, how unkeen Wizard has always been to close threads that are none of those 3 things you mentioned.?
link to original post
I know on at least one of the threads so described, the membership was polled and a significant number agreed that the thread should be closed.
On the others, I see little difference in substance, and inferred a similar popular opinion.
If I'm in error, I'm sure my due flogging will be swift and merciless.
link to original post
link to original post
Guess #1
Guess #2
Guess #3?
Edit: I have been reminded that I am not to accept bribes gratuities for closing threads.
May the cards fall in your favor.
August 29th, 2023 at 1:19:43 PM
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Here's another satire thread, by E.R. Dietz called The Adventures of E R Dietz
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/off-topic/35352-adventures-of-e-r-dietz/#post785759
As you can see Wizard closed the thread fairly quickly and gave Dietz a 3-day suspension for trolling.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/off-topic/35352-adventures-of-e-r-dietz/#post785759
As you can see Wizard closed the thread fairly quickly and gave Dietz a 3-day suspension for trolling.
So many better men, a few of them friends, are dead. And a thousand thousand slimy things live on, and so do I.
August 29th, 2023 at 1:22:05 PM
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Right, there is actually precedent that trolling or satire threads are disallowed, especially when their titles mimic the original titles of the thread created by the target.
For example when REDietz created these two threads, Wizard not only closed them but suspended REDietz. Later REDietz made an off site threat over the suspensions, which resulted in his being nuked.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/sports/35745-the-adventures-of-e-r-dietz/
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/off-topic/35352-adventures-of-e-r-dietz/#post785759
And when I created a thread about AxelWolf’s claim that he could create a fake thread that mimicked mine, Wizard closed it too.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/trip-reports/35408-the-adventures-of-axelwolf/
Whenever someone other than I has tried to create an “Adventures” titled thread it has been disallowed since these are obviously directed at me.
That "Adventures of Axel Wolf" thread was closed partially because it could be merged into the Adventures of MDawg thread, where the challenge itself was created, not so much because it was satirical, as it in fact echoed a genuine claim that AWolf had made, that he could create a thread like mine that was entirely faked.
Other times, posts are split off to create their own thread:
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/betting-systems/37619-the-challenge-thread-split/
So, it does happen these different ways. Just depends I suppose on how important the topic is and whether it deserves its own thread, and whether the topic is legitimate and not just satirical/trolling in the first place.
For example when REDietz created these two threads, Wizard not only closed them but suspended REDietz. Later REDietz made an off site threat over the suspensions, which resulted in his being nuked.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/sports/35745-the-adventures-of-e-r-dietz/
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/off-topic/35352-adventures-of-e-r-dietz/#post785759
And when I created a thread about AxelWolf’s claim that he could create a fake thread that mimicked mine, Wizard closed it too.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/trip-reports/35408-the-adventures-of-axelwolf/
Whenever someone other than I has tried to create an “Adventures” titled thread it has been disallowed since these are obviously directed at me.
That "Adventures of Axel Wolf" thread was closed partially because it could be merged into the Adventures of MDawg thread, where the challenge itself was created, not so much because it was satirical, as it in fact echoed a genuine claim that AWolf had made, that he could create a thread like mine that was entirely faked.
Other times, posts are split off to create their own thread:
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/betting-systems/37619-the-challenge-thread-split/
So, it does happen these different ways. Just depends I suppose on how important the topic is and whether it deserves its own thread, and whether the topic is legitimate and not just satirical/trolling in the first place.
I tell you it’s wonderful to be here, man. I don’t give a damn who wins or loses. It’s just wonderful to be here with you people.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/betting-systems/33908-the-adventures-of-mdawg/
August 29th, 2023 at 1:26:59 PM
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Gordon can correct me if I'm wrong, but he closed that thread because he didn't want to read days and days and days of pig piling personal attacks against the OP because the OP decided he was no longer going to participate in it. That's what everybody is complaining about here, it was closed before they could get their final jabs in. Everybody knows this, quit acting like anything else happened besides that. That's why the OP said he wasn't going to read any more posts in that thread because he knew what was coming. LOL
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
August 29th, 2023 at 1:30:35 PM
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Bob Dietz later created another thread again called The Adventures of E R Dietz.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/sports/35745-the-adventures-of-e-r-dietz/
Here is what Wizard posted on this thread.
Perhaps Once Dear could enlighten us as to why the Once Dear Method thread should not be closed on the basis that its a parody of the EvenBob Roulette Method thread. This had not previously occurred to me so I'm just asking. OnceDear is a former moderator and I expect him to give a thoughtful and high integrity response.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/sports/35745-the-adventures-of-e-r-dietz/
Here is what Wizard posted on this thread.
Quote: WizardThe initial post is an obvious trolling parody of MDawg. He has done it before so seven days this time.
Thread closed.
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Perhaps Once Dear could enlighten us as to why the Once Dear Method thread should not be closed on the basis that its a parody of the EvenBob Roulette Method thread. This had not previously occurred to me so I'm just asking. OnceDear is a former moderator and I expect him to give a thoughtful and high integrity response.
So many better men, a few of them friends, are dead. And a thousand thousand slimy things live on, and so do I.
August 29th, 2023 at 1:32:20 PM
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You really suck at this. You weren't even in the ballpark. Keep trying.Quote: DieterQuote: AxelWolfLet's start polling what threads should be shut down and then take action based on the votes, I would love that. Care to guess what thread gets shut down first?Quote: DieterQuote: OnceDearAnd a member asking for an active thread to be closed when it is not spam, violates no laws or rules, was opened by the person asking, so clearly not harrassing?Quote: DieterQuote: OnceDearQuote: billryanThe power of a moderator is such that all he has to do is think something is a rule, and it is—no need to inform anyone until it is time to enforce it.
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It's a long standing convention here that moderators are representative of Wizard's intentions. I don't believe that Wizard is at all keen on the closure of threads except in quite extreme cases.
Again I say. why should any one member get his request granted for any active thread to be closed?
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I routinely close threads that violate forum rules. There is no real consideration, no discussion - if it's spam, it dies. If the topic violates the law, it dies.
Starting a thread primarily to hector or embarass a forum member would seem to be against the forum rules.
Once a thread is deemed to exist primarily for the harassment of an individual, and not for the forum's core focus of Vegas, math, and gambling, it seems reasonable to close the thread. (There are exceptions.)
Others probably have more eloquent explanations.
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I understand Gordon closing the congratulations thread, albeit disagreeing with him. But what I really think is bang out of order is closing a number of threads started by EvenBob, closed at his request, while others still had stuff to contribute.
I say, he should have said "No EB. I know you opened this thread, but you don't get to dictate when it gets closed. If you no longer like the thread, block it"
You do recall, don't you, how unkeen Wizard has always been to close threads that are none of those 3 things you mentioned.?
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I know on at least one of the threads so described, the membership was polled and a significant number agreed that the thread should be closed.
On the others, I see little difference in substance, and inferred a similar popular opinion.
If I'm in error, I'm sure my due flogging will be swift and merciless.
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Guess #1
Guess #2
Guess #3?
Edit: I have been reminded that I am not to accept bribes gratuities for closing threads.
link to original post
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
August 29th, 2023 at 1:34:49 PM
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Quote: gordonm888
Perhaps Once Dear could enlighten us as to why the Once Dear Method thread should not be closed on the basis that its a parody of the EvenBob Roulette Method thread.
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Noooooo! The OD thread is a tremendous boon to the gambling world, I am learning a ton of stuff that I didn't know before and have improved my game exponentially since that thread started. Please do not close it I want it go on and on forever. I now worship OD for the gambling God that he is, and I don't say those words lightly
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
August 29th, 2023 at 1:37:17 PM
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Quote: gordonm888Bob Dietz later created another thread again called The Adventures of E R Dietz.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/sports/35745-the-adventures-of-e-r-dietz/
Here is what Wizard posted on this thread.Quote: WizardThe initial post is an obvious trolling parody of MDawg. He has done it before so seven days this time.
Thread closed.
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Perhaps Once Dear could enlighten us as to why the Once Dear Method thread should not be closed on the basis that its a parody of the EvenBob Roulette Method thread. This had not previously occurred to me so I'm just asking. OnceDear is a former moderator and I expect him to give a thoughtful and high integrity response.
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Keep digging. It usually works out well.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
August 29th, 2023 at 1:40:14 PM
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I agreed it is/was a parody of the EvenBob Roulette Method thread. Did EvenBob ask it to be shut down? If not...there is your answer. EB is and has been complimenting the thread, so if he is/has complained, he is being deceitful.Quote: gordonm888Bob Dietz later created another thread again called The Adventures of E R Dietz.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/sports/35745-the-adventures-of-e-r-dietz/
Here is what Wizard posted on this thread.Quote: WizardThe initial post is an obvious trolling parody of MDawg. He has done it before so seven days this time.
Thread closed.
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Perhaps Once Dear could enlighten us as to why the Once Dear Method thread should not be closed on the basis that its a parody of the EvenBob Roulette Method thread. This had not previously occurred to me so I'm just asking.
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♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
August 29th, 2023 at 1:47:24 PM
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When I clicked to go to some posts I have stored in my brain that I thought were relevant to this discussion, I obtained some unexpected results, due to this recent changeover to 50 posts per page.
Fate! in the guise of the dead link department lands me on posts created by WellBush, MarcusClark66 and CoachBelly.
I'd like to take this opportunity to campaign for their return. Why not? Haven't they been suspended long enough, and anyway, not one of them was guilty of the single unforgivable offense at WOV, creating a sock puppet account.
Fate! in the guise of the dead link department lands me on posts created by WellBush, MarcusClark66 and CoachBelly.
I'd like to take this opportunity to campaign for their return. Why not? Haven't they been suspended long enough, and anyway, not one of them was guilty of the single unforgivable offense at WOV, creating a sock puppet account.
I tell you it’s wonderful to be here, man. I don’t give a damn who wins or loses. It’s just wonderful to be here with you people.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/betting-systems/33908-the-adventures-of-mdawg/
August 29th, 2023 at 1:50:59 PM
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Quote: AxelWolfYou really suck at this. You weren't even in the ballpark. Keep trying.Quote: DieterQuote: AxelWolf
Let's start polling what threads should be shut down and then take action based on the votes, I would love that. Care to guess what thread gets shut down first?
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Guess #1
Guess #2
Guess #3?
Edit: I have been reminded that I am not to accept bribes gratuities for closing threads.
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Guess #4 Man, that's just mean.
Guess #5 I'm tapped out.
May the cards fall in your favor.
August 29th, 2023 at 2:09:51 PM
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Quote: DieterWe both know you know exactly what thread. It was a nice little distraction to the current WMOATeness going on right now.Quote: AxelWolfYou really suck at this. You weren't even in the ballpark. Keep trying.Quote: DieterQuote: AxelWolf
Let's start polling what threads should be shut down and then take action based on the votes, I would love that. Care to guess what thread gets shut down first?
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Guess #1
Guess #2
Guess #3?
Edit: I have been reminded that I am not to accept bribes gratuities for closing threads.
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Now can you two give us an acceptable reason why Bob's recent requests to have "his" threads shut down were granted so easily? Or, just admit it was a mistake and correct it. Quit attempting to give nonsense examples that don't apply to this situation.
Guess #4 Man, that's just mean.
Guess #5 I'm tapped out.
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♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
August 29th, 2023 at 2:12:51 PM
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I support the Mods closing all of the threads including this one.
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
August 29th, 2023 at 2:15:10 PM
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Quote: MDawgWhen I clicked to go to some posts I have stored in my brain that I thought were relevant to this discussion, I obtained some unexpected results, due to this recent changeover to 50 posts per page.
Fate! in the guise of the dead link department lands me on posts created by WellBush, MarcusClark66 and CoachBelly.
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WellBush was nuked for "insulting the forum." I looked at the offending post and it was probably ban-worthy, but certainly not nuke-worthy.
Coachbelly was nuked for "hate speech." The post in question seemed to be him quoting a Dave Chappelle joke that included offensive language, including the n-word. Again, most certainly ban-worthy, but nuke-worthy?
I couldn't figure out the specific post that got MarcusClark66 nuked.
I also don't know if there were any past violations that factored into their nukings.
August 29th, 2023 at 2:21:15 PM
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Outstanding examples of people who support the MDawg thread.Quote: MDawgWhen I clicked to go to some posts I have stored in my brain that I thought were relevant to this discussion, I obtained some unexpected results, due to this recent changeover to 50 posts per page.
Fate! in the guise of the dead link department lands me on posts created by WellBush, MarcusClark66 and CoachBelly.
I'd like to take this opportunity to campaign for their return. Why not? Haven't they been suspended long enough, and anyway, not one of them was guilty of the single unforgivable offense at WOV, creating a sock puppet account.
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Perhaps even Hitler would have supported it as well.
Birds of a feather...
Now go cry to the Mods. My ribs are 98% better today and it's time for a break.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
August 29th, 2023 at 2:26:12 PM
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Quote: AxelWolfOutstanding examples of people who support the MDawg thread.
Perhaps even Hitler would have supported it as well.
Birds of a feather...
Now go cry to the Mods. My ribs are 98% better today and it's time for a break.
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Whoa! That's far more nuke worthy than anything CoachBelly supposedly said.
Putting me and those others in the category of Hitler as "birds of a feather." It is suspension worthy to insult even former members, let alone current ones, especially to that degree.
Something not right with this one today, he's off kilter to be saying something like that.
Are you drunken, like lilredrooster says he was, or what is your excuse?
I tell you it’s wonderful to be here, man. I don’t give a damn who wins or loses. It’s just wonderful to be here with you people.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/betting-systems/33908-the-adventures-of-mdawg/
August 29th, 2023 at 2:31:57 PM
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Quote: TigerWuCoachbelly was nuked for "hate speech." The post in question seemed to be him quoting a Dave Chappelle joke that included offensive language, including the n-word. Again, most certainly ban-worthy, but nuke-worthy?
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AxelWolf just laid down a far worse hate speech, likening MDawg and his supporters to Hitler "birds of a feather."
Wow.
And over here he was taunting SooPoo for supporting my thread, with a "Do you regularly send MD gay PMs telling him you appreciate the Adventures of MDawg? *Gay as in happy/joyful/cheerful" post, which seems to have been a precursor to this Hitler post.
And he's taunting the mods to suspend him: "it's time for a break."
I tell you it’s wonderful to be here, man. I don’t give a damn who wins or loses. It’s just wonderful to be here with you people.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/betting-systems/33908-the-adventures-of-mdawg/
August 29th, 2023 at 2:33:28 PM
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Quote: AxelWolfDid EvenBob ask it to be shut down? If not...there is your answer. EB is and has been complimenting the thread,
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Of course I've been complimenting it's one of the greatest threads I've ever seen. If it is a parody of one of my threads, which is doubtful, why would I complain about that. Parody is usually complimentary, imitation is a form of flattery.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
August 29th, 2023 at 2:41:52 PM
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Birds of a feather = coach, wellbush, and Marcus. Nope, im very sober and clear-headed.Quote: MDawgQuote: AxelWolfOutstanding examples of people who support the MDawg thread.
Perhaps even Hitler would have supported it as well.
Birds of a feather...
Now go cry to the Mods. My ribs are 98% better today and it's time for a break.
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Whoa! That's far more nuke worthy than anything CoachBelly supposedly said.
Putting me and those others in the category of Hitler as "birds of a feather." It is suspension worthy to insult even former members, let alone current ones, especially to that degree.
Something not right with this one today, he's off kilter to be saying something like that.
Are you drunken, like lilredrooster says he was, or what is your excuse?
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♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
August 29th, 2023 at 2:44:43 PM
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Quote: AxelWolfBirds of a feather = coach, wellbush, and Marcus.
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And Hitler. Don't forget Hitler. You lumped them all in with Hitler.
August 29th, 2023 at 2:48:02 PM
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He lumped me in too.
I tell you it’s wonderful to be here, man. I don’t give a damn who wins or loses. It’s just wonderful to be here with you people.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/betting-systems/33908-the-adventures-of-mdawg/
August 29th, 2023 at 2:52:46 PM
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Be careful what you wish for. Without a proper nemesis, you'll be very lonely.Quote: MDawgQuote: TigerWuCoachbelly was nuked for "hate speech." The post in question seemed to be him quoting a Dave Chappelle joke that included offensive language, including the n-word. Again, most certainly ban-worthy, but nuke-worthy?
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AxelWolf just laid down a far worse hate speech, likening MDawg and his supporters to Hitler "birds of a feather."
Wow.
And over here he was taunting SooPoo for supporting my thread, with a "Do you regularly send MD gay PMs telling him you appreciate the Adventures of MDawg? *Gay as in happy/joyful/cheerful" post, which seems to have been a precursor to this Hitler post.
And he's taunting the mods to suspend him: "it's time for a break."
link to original post
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
August 29th, 2023 at 2:57:57 PM
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Quote: AxelWolfBe careful what you wish for. Without a proper nemesis, you'll be very lonely.
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It's okay, I can take up the slack. I've been known to get into it with MDawg every once in a while. At least I don't compare him to Hitler, though.
August 29th, 2023 at 3:37:33 PM
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Quote: TigerWuQuote: AxelWolfBe careful what you wish for. Without a proper nemesis, you'll be very lonely.
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It's okay, I can take up the slack. I've been known to get into it with MDawg every once in a while. At least I don't compare him to Hitler, though.
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Is that a good thing or a bad thing. It's hard to tell these days.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
August 29th, 2023 at 3:44:07 PM
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Quote: AxelWolfOutstanding examples of people who support the MDawg thread.Quote: MDawgWhen I clicked to go to some posts I have stored in my brain that I thought were relevant to this discussion, I obtained some unexpected results, due to this recent changeover to 50 posts per page.
Fate! in the guise of the dead link department lands me on posts created by WellBush, MarcusClark66 and CoachBelly.
I'd like to take this opportunity to campaign for their return. Why not? Haven't they been suspended long enough, and anyway, not one of them was guilty of the single unforgivable offense at WOV, creating a sock puppet account.
link to original post
Perhaps even Hitler would have supported it as well.
Birds of a feather...
Now go cry to the Mods. My ribs are 98% better today and it's time for a break.
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No one needs to cry to the mods; you've made it this blatant.
3-day suspension for personal insult.
So many better men, a few of them friends, are dead. And a thousand thousand slimy things live on, and so do I.
August 29th, 2023 at 4:01:59 PM
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Quote: gordonm888
No one needs to cry to the mods; you've made it this blatant.
3-day suspension for personal insult.
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Who could have seen that coming besides everybody..
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
August 29th, 2023 at 6:44:32 PM
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Poor Axel. No Pasaran!
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
August 30th, 2023 at 4:21:14 AM
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Quote: EvenBobQuote: AxelWolfDid EvenBob ask it to be shut down? If not...there is your answer. EB is and has been complimenting the thread,
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Of course I've been complimenting it's one of the greatest threads I've ever seen. If it is a parody of one of my threads, which is doubtful, why would I complain about that. Parody is usually complimentary, imitation is a form of flattery.
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Parody done right is an art form. Fred Rogers supposedly called both Eddie Murphy and Johnny Carson to tell them he thought their parodies were funny. Bush41 loved Dana Carvey, who did the best SNL parody of a POTUS during the run of the series back when it was about actual comedy. Limbaugh used parodies to make points all the time.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
