Discussion III about the Suspension List

The last Discussion thread was getting long, and because it is temporarily closed, let's use this moment to start a new thread.

I will announce that Moderators have a gentlemen's agreement to not disagree with each other in public. However, the PM system is used for discussion between moderators, and sometimes the discussion is . . . "vigorous."

This thread is open.

The suspension list can be found Here

SUSPENSTION - There's always some suspense in suspensions.

{Moderator note: No typo goes unnoticed! The typo in the Thread Title has since been corrected. Thank you ChumpChange!}

Quote: gordonm888

The last Discussion thread was getting long, and because it is temporarily closed, let's use this moment to start a new thread.

Cheers GordonM888.

Quote:

I will announce that Moderators have a gentlemen's agreement to not disagree with each other in public. However, the PM system is used for discussion between moderators, and sometimes the discussion is . . . "vigorous."

Indeed. And very constructive it is too! Good to have some new perspectives on the team.

Quote:

This thread is open.

I defer to Gordon's judgement on that.

Quote: OnceDear

Quote: gordonm888

This thread is open.

I defer to Gordon's judgement on that.

It seemed wrong to lockdown the forum's discussion, when we, the moderators, are still burning up electrons on the PM system, chewing on everything like it is beef jerky. ;)

I rarely post on this forum. I just want to state, once for the record, that the reason I rarely post is 100% the endless discussions about the rules, personal gripes and suspensions here in this thread and in myriad other threads at the expense of content and thoughtful discussion. This site is painful to skim, let alone read.

If someone posts nonsense system stuff here, talks about their adventures as a recreational player or AP or has something interesting to say about game development, math or some advantage play, then all of that is fine by me. What is not fine are all the rules and moderation, all the back and forth fighting about suspensions and everything else that has evolved over the last 12 years of trying to create a fair and ethical system for folks to post under.

A single benevolent dictator is always the best choice to run a forum, a combination between a kindergarten teacher and army sergeant. Right or wrong, at least decisions are made and that's the end of it. My recommendation to the new owners -- ditch all the rules, ditch all the moderators and start over. This site is beyond repair through incremental change.

I will continue to be an infrequent poster here, though not for want of desire. I am continually looking for the good stuff and an opportunity to contribute, it's just very hard to find.

Quote: teliot

I rarely post on this forum. I just want to state, once for the record, that the reason I rarely post is 100% the endless discussions about the rules, personal gripes and suspensions here in this thread and in myriad other threads at the expense of content and thoughtful discussion. This site is painful to skim, let alone read.

If someone posts nonsense system stuff here, talks about their adventures as a recreational player or AP or has something interesting to say about game development, math or some advantage play, then all of that is fine by me. What is not fine are all the rules and moderation, all the back and forth fighting about suspensions and everything else that has evolved over the last 12 years of trying to create a fair and ethical system for folks to post under.

A single benevolent dictator is always the best choice to run a forum, a combination between a kindergarten teacher and army sergeant. Right or wrong, at least decisions are made and that's the end of it. My recommendation to the new owners -- ditch all the rules, ditch all the moderators and start over. This site is beyond repair through incremental change.

I will continue to be an infrequent poster here, though not for want of desire. I am continually looking for the good stuff and an opportunity to contribute, it's just very hard to find.

I very much agree with your statement of the problem. I think its weird that "discussion of the suspension list" has seen 10s of thousands of posts and I constantly say that no one is attracted to this forum because they want to read discussions about its suspension list. Your "Cut the Gordian Knot" solution might be the correct one but we would still be left with an administrator of some sort, and (given vacations and personal life, etc.) its really difficult for a single person to cover the forum. So, you start evolving back to a system with multiple administrators.

Its easy to imagine a single benevolent dictator that is a near-perfect person, but what you sometimes get is a Joseph Stalin or Fidel Castro or King Louis XIV or an Idi Amin. So people who design governance tend to employ checks and balances. But you're extremely smart and you certainly know all this.

Perhaps we, the moderators, need to make more dispassionate decisions and disallow complaints and arguments about our decisions? But we would also need to avoid engaging in the life of the forum -become more detached. We're not paid and there are no perks -and we're all here because we have some online friends here and because we enjoy some of the content.

I sincerely want to make the forum a better place. I'd like to be positive, praise people for good posts, encourage newcomers, help with problems - and I almost certainly will do all that. But we're up against human nature - some people like to quarrel, some like drama, and some may actually have various kinds of mental disorders. Some have bad days, get off their meds, etc. Virtually everyone is very bright and most like to show off their intelligence - they know how to skirt the rules and let's face it, many of them have egos, are tempermental and are sore at each other. We've banned political and religious discussion and yet people still fight about "idiot issues" - issues that, if finally resolved the way they want, will not make their lives any better or themselves any happier.

I do note that on the mathematical threads we have no fighting. But on the other threads? Well, you can ask your single benevolent dictator to stand on the beach, spread out his mighty arms and promise to hold back the tide. I wonder if it will work, though.

An alternative is to make another rule! :

BUT WAIT, DON'T KNOCK HEAD AGAINST THE WALL YET AT THAT SUGGESTION.

New rule. ***** Members have two posts to discuss why their suspension was unfair. One initial. And one follow-up if necessary. Anything beyond that merits a suspension.

All other members allowed only one comment on said suspension. Either AGREE OR DISAGREE no EXPLANATIONS!!!

And that is the whole content of the future suspension list.

(That is for Discussion about the suspension list, btw)

It's not just that "the damned" whine about being suspended; the problem is that lots of others, including me, feel the urge to "chime in."

Maybe the ONLY discussion allowed in that thread should be between the damned (he who was exiled) and the admin who suspended him.

All others should butt out because really, what can we possibly add that would be helpful?

Quote: MrV

It's not just that "the damned" whine about being suspended; the problem is that lots of others, including me, feel the urge to "chime in."

Maybe the ONLY discussion allowed in that thread should be between the damned (he who was exiled) and the admin who suspended him.

All others should butt out because really, what can we possibly add that would be helpful?

1. Make the suspension list some kind of easy to click link, maybe next to "Top Contributors?"
2. Then people who do not care for the drama can just ignore the "Discussion about the suspension list" thread but can easily see why a user got suspended. I rarely care unless it is an old-timer/"famous" poster who has been around for years and said much.

Only other suggestion would be to allow a user to ask a mod to recuse themselves from ruling on them if that mod seems to have a long term beef with them. I asked a mod once and they declined when it was obvious they had a personal issue with me. Even if it would not do a ton it would make things seem more fair.

Quote: MrV

Maybe the ONLY discussion allowed in that thread should be between the damned (he who was exiled) and the admin who suspended him.

All others should butt out because really, what can we possibly add that would be helpful?

The suspended cannot speak out during a suspension.
The rest of the community may plead for dispensation of benevolent clemency.
AxelWolf can tell us what a predictably mediocre job we're doing.

I am not convinced that a different system would be an improvement.