Discussion III about the Suspension List
Quote: QFITJust don't use the lottery as a retirement plan as the average gambler will lose in the long run.
Many forum members including MrW respect your views and posts. I only pose this question since you have included such in this thread. With that intro, could you explicitly define: "average gambler" and "long run"?
tuttigym
Quote: lilredrooster_________
every single mathematician on this planet will tell you that negative expectancy at a house game cannot be overcome by money management (progressions) or by bet selection or by a combination of both
a WOV poster indicating he can do just that has the same amount of credibility as a WOV member posting that he can bench press 1500 pounds 100 times
.
Exactly, no different than a WOV poster trying to educate the membership about the laws in the state of Nevada regarding trespassing in casinos. Not realizing that the majority of the membership already knows more about the trespassing laws in that state than most of the inconsistent, and over reactionary employees who make up Security Agencies.
Please continue the further explanation of EV to Wellbush in the appropriate thread.
Quote: DieterGentlemen:
Please continue the further explanation of EV to Wellbush in the appropriate thread.
Where is the circular file?
Quote: QFITBy average gambler in this context, I mean a person playing a negative expectation game. Long run has no specific meaning.
Thank you; to my knowledge, you are the first to answer "long run" specifically in the context of forum "math" outcomes. Pursuing other questions in this vein would be considered "hijacking," and I do not wish to be censured.
Can I PM you to discuss other "math" concerns?
tuttigym
Quote: EvenBobMost people including myself would be vehemently disagree with this. Life is actually very complicated and if you can make it simple, good on you. Because most people can't. It's what keeps shrinks in business.
I disagree with you on this. Life is simple. You live then you die, the end.
Quote: billryan
Where is the circular file?
I edited your post to correct a formatting error that was disrupting page rendering.
My apologies for introducing the error in the first place, which you inadvertently quoted.
To address your actual question, we've been going around and around in the mod discussion trying to figure that out. No promises when we'll have a solid answer.
Quote: DieterI edited your post to correct a formatting error that was disrupting page rendering.
My apologies for introducing the error in the first place, which you inadvertently quoted.
To address your actual question, we've been going around and around in the mod discussion trying to figure that out. No promises when we'll have a solid answer.
I'm glad you fixed that. I didn't know what I did,and was afraid I'd tapped into some mojo only greenies are supposed to tap in to.
I hope you figure out something soon as the odor of bovine excrement here these days is reaching the tipping point.
Quote: DRichI disagree with you on this. Life is simple. You live then you die, the end.
That's like saying how an automobile works is simple. You get in you drive it you get out. That no more describes how an automobile works then your explanation of how life works.
Quote: AxelWolfwhy is Bill in red?
There was a personal insult.
Gee thanx, I assumed that much.Quote: DieterThere was a personal insult.
No wonder I came up with WMOAT.
Quote: EvenBobThat's like saying how an automobile works is simple. You get in you drive it you get out. That no more describes how an automobile works then your explanation of how life works.
Life is not an automobile. Life is binary, you live or you die. There is no other alternative.
Quote: DRichLife is not an automobile. Life is binary, you live or you die.
Most people have things that happen between birth and death. You don't?
Quote: AxelWolfGee thanx, I assumed that much.
I am glad to have been able to help.
Thank you; enjoy the day.
Quote: EvenBobMost people have things that happen between birth and death. You don't?
They are not relevant to life or death. Life is just a holding pattern until death. I expect death to be much more serene and have less stress.
Quote: DRichThey are not relevant to life or death.
Actually what's in between birth and death is the only thing that's relevant. History books are not full of birth dates and death dates, they're full of what people did in between those times.
Administrative suspensions do not always appear in red, but I confirm that the suspension is in effect.
What a farce.Quote: DieterWizard is suspended for violating a privacy agreement.
Administrative suspensions do not always appear in red, but I confirm that the suspension is in effect.
Quote: EvenBobActually what's in between birth and death is the only thing that's relevant. History books are not full of birth dates and death dates, they're full of what people did in between those times.
A podcast I listen to says "make the most of your dash" meaning the dash on your headstone, that is your life. While I try to do that, I accept death is coming and do not expect to get past 70 or so. When it comes it comes. You can fight it or cuddle up to it like a lover, but you cannot avoid it.
Quote: AxelWolfWhat a farce.
While there are surely varying degrees of equality, none of us are more equal to that extent.
Quote: DieterWizard is suspended for violating a privacy agreement.
Administrative suspensions do not always appear in red, but I confirm that the suspension is in effect.
Delayed suspension, might be first ever. Did he self-surrender like you can do for club fed?
Quote: AZDuffmanDelayed suspension, might be first ever. Did he self-surrender like you can do for club fed?
Wizard began his suspension yesterday.
I do not gossip about the private details of such matters.
The notice of suspension is provided here, as many people do not notice when the suspension list is updated - the manner it is updated does not generally bring it to the top of the Recent Threads list, where many people look for new happenings.
Appearance is everything.Quote: DieterWhile there are surely varying degrees of equality, none of us are more equal to that extent.
I highly doubt he cares that he had to take a suspension. Perhaps you guys should have sent him to his room with a calculator and a unicycle, that would have really showed him.
Quote: AxelWolfAppearance is everything.
Beauty is only skin deep.
I'm here to discuss the Suspension of Wellbush for a statement made in the above-linked post. I should assume that this Suspension will be added to the list in the near future.
As we can see in that post, a statement was made that violates a couple of rules here and potentially a few more:
Rule 1: No Personal Insult
---In this statement by Wellbush, an anecdote (fictitious or true) was made concerning a well-known stereotype that is made of the Jewish community. It stands to reason that there are more than zero Jewish or part-Jewish people who post here, in fact, I KNOW that there are (but will not identify them individually) and this post rises to the level of Personal Insult against all Members of that community.
Rule 12: No Bullying/Trolling
---See above.
Rule 18: Hate Speech
---Again, this post can be seen as nothing other than HATE SPEECH based on a known stereotype of the Jewish people. It is this sort of speech that fosters violence and hatred towards members of that community whilst perhaps fostering existing biases or perhaps causing people to have new biases.
Rule 19: Controversial Speech
---The speech is about a particular, and specified, religious group and a stereotype related to them---so it's tough to get more controversial than that for the purposes of this rule.
Wellbush is coming off of a 30 day ban as of July 30th. Granted, this site doesn't operate strictly on Martingale policy anymore, but a seven day ban for hate speech seems extremely lenient given the length of the most previous ban.
It would be one thing to give someone a seven-day ban for this if they had no prior infractions, agreed to make an apology upon returning and whose posts were of substantial value to a gambling community. This is not the case with Wellbush. Of Wellbush, the following things are true:
1.) He has been suspended already for Personal Insults and Trolling. There is no reason to think, that when this Suspension ends, this behavior will not continue.
AND:
2.) Wellbush is a betting systems advocate and, if there is a single post that has any FACTUAL value to a gambling forum, I have certainly never read it from him.
Therefore, it is my personal opinion that given his previous ban, seriousness of this offense and overall value of his posts to this Forum that Wellbush should be Nuked.
And yet one of the most powerful driving forces in the world.Quote: DieterBeauty is only skin deep.
I'm fairly certain some ugly person made up that saying.
I look forward to being your campaign manager during the next Moderator election.Quote: Mission146
Therefore, it is my personal opinion that given his previous ban, seriousness of this offense and overall value of his posts to this Forum that Wellbush should be Nuked.
Vote for Mission, he's on a Mission.
Quote: AxelWolfI look forward to being your campaign manager during the next Moderator election.
Vote for Mission, he's on a Mission.
Vote for Mission, he is probably not the worst choice.
Don't be dissin', vote for Mission.Quote: DRichVote for Mission, he is probably not the worst choice.
Quote: AxelWolfDon't be dissin', vote for Mission.
He may not be the hero we need, but he's the hero we deserve?
Is Evenbob going to get banned for this clear personal insult and barely masked profanity sometime today?
Please keep in mind he is coming off of a very recent Suspension for Trolling.
Quote: AxelWolfI look forward to being your campaign manager during the next Moderator election.
Vote for Mission, he's on a Mission.
Mission impossible.
Unless, as Mission's new campaign mission manager, you can convince your candidate not to become a self inflicted omission by abandoning his mission during the next election mission.
Prayer at a mission might help.
Quote: Mission146https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/tables/36355-roulette/4/#post820815
Is Evenbob going to get banned for this clear personal insult and barely masked profanity sometime today?
Please keep in mind he is coming off of a very recent Suspension for Trolling.
Haha, he edited his post. Classic Evenbob. I'm sure that such an edit to avoid punishment and try to make me appear to be a misquoter will be factored into the penalty.
Quote: Mission146https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/betting-systems/36356-wellbushs-trip-reports/5/#post820802
I'm here to discuss the Suspension of Wellbush for a statement made in the above-linked post. I should assume that this Suspension will be added to the list in the near future.
As we can see in that post, a statement was made that violates a couple of rules here and potentially a few more:
Rule 1: No Personal Insult
---In this statement by Wellbush, an anecdote (fictitious or true) was made concerning a well-known stereotype that is made of the Jewish community. It stands to reason that there are more than zero Jewish or part-Jewish people who post here, in fact, I KNOW that there are (but will not identify them individually) and this post rises to the level of Personal Insult against all Members of that community.
Rule 12: No Bullying/Trolling
---See above.
Rule 18: Hate Speech
---Again, this post can be seen as nothing other than HATE SPEECH based on a known stereotype of the Jewish people. It is this sort of speech that fosters violence and hatred towards members of that community whilst perhaps fostering existing biases or perhaps causing people to have new biases.
Rule 19: Controversial Speech
---The speech is about a particular, and specified, religious group and a stereotype related to them---so it's tough to get more controversial than that for the purposes of this rule.
Wellbush is coming off of a 30 day ban as of July 30th. Granted, this site doesn't operate strictly on Martingale policy anymore, but a seven day ban for hate speech seems extremely lenient given the length of the most previous ban.
It would be one thing to give someone a seven-day ban for this if they had no prior infractions, agreed to make an apology upon returning and whose posts were of substantial value to a gambling community. This is not the case with Wellbush. Of Wellbush, the following things are true:
1.) He has been suspended already for Personal Insults and Trolling. There is no reason to think, that when this Suspension ends, this behavior will not continue.
AND:
2.) Wellbush is a betting systems advocate and, if there is a single post that has any FACTUAL value to a gambling forum, I have certainly never read it from him.
Therefore, it is my personal opinion that given his previous ban, seriousness of this offense and overall value of his posts to this Forum that Wellbush should be Nuked.
There's a mixture of ratiocination and poisoning of the well(bush) here.
I saw the joke he posted and it was out of line for WOV, but I doubt he meant it as any kind of hate speech. In other words, nothing WellBush has posted before would indicate that he harbors any kind of prejudice or hate towards any ethnicity, race or religion. You're reading too much into motive here when clearly really all he was trying to do was illustrate a point, granted, via politically incorrect stereotypes that have no place these days. When I was in law school one of my professors was Scottish and he used to illustrate certain legal points by referencing the alleged attributes (stereotypes) of Scotsmen in very politically incorrect ways.
As far as suspending or nuking someone just because he continues to post what he believes in, whether or not you agree with it, that's just not right, nor does someone's being passionate about his beliefs and repeating them become trolling (otherwise, EvenBob would have been nuked long ago). Indeed, I am surprised to hear Mission146 advocate such a thing after his speech about the value of MDawg to this forum. While, yes, the Adventures of MDawg were for some reason placed in the Betting Systems section, indeed I have always said that no mechanical betting system works, so I am not even an advocate of betting systems. I've never said exactly what I do or don't do to win regularly. Point being, that being tossed into the betting systems bin is not nor has it ever been grounds for suspension or nuking.
I'll go further and say that I believe that WellBush's prior suspension was made by OnceDear who lumped together all of WellBush's continued passionate statements in favor of whatever it was he believed in, and suspended him for that. I believe that such suspensions - suspensions merely for someone's repeating what he believes in absent any other rule violation, have been since disapproved of by the Wizard. I mean WellBush asked that his thread be hidden, he asked that the "naysayers" stop responding to him, that is evidence if anything, against trolling because the objective of a troller is to attract attention and lure others into responding to him.
A suspension for the joke that was in poor taste, sure, but not otherwise.
I can see you are not too good at this.Quote: DieterHe may not be the hero we need, but he's the hero we deserve?
I think Mission will admit that when it comes to this sort of thing, he oftentimes gets it wrong.Quote: MDawgThere's a mixture of ratiocination and poisoning of the well(bush) here.
I saw the joke he posted and it was out of line for WOV, but I doubt he meant it as any kind of hate speech. In other words, nothing WellBush has posted before would indicate that he harbors any kind of prejudice or hate towards any ethnicity, race or religion. You're reading too much into motive here when clearly really all he was trying to do was illustrate a point, granted, via politically incorrect stereotypes that have no place these days. When I was in law school one of my professors was Scottish and he used to illustrate certain legal points by referencing the alleged attributes (stereotypes) of Scotsmen in very politically incorrect ways.
As far as suspending or nuking someone just because he continues to post what he believes in, whether or not you agree with it, that's just not right, nor does someone's being passionate about his beliefs and repeating them become trolling (otherwise, EvenBob would have been nuked long ago). Indeed, I am surprised to hear Mission146 advocate such a thing after his speech about the value of MDawg to this forum. While, yes, the Adventures of MDawg were for some reason placed in the Betting Systems section, indeed I have always said that no mechanical betting system works, so I am not even an advocate of betting systems. I've never said exactly what I do or don't do to win regularly. Point being, that being tossed into the betting systems bin is not nor has it ever been grounds for suspension or nuking.
A suspension for the joke that was in poor taste, sure, but not otherwise.
Quote: MDawgThere's a mixture of ratiocination and poisoning of the well(bush) here.
I saw the joke he posted and it was out of line for WOV, but I doubt he meant it as any kind of hate speech. In other words, nothing WellBush has posted before would indicate that he harbors any kind of prejudice or hate towards any ethnicity, race or religion. You're reading too much into motive here when clearly really all he was trying to do was illustrate a point, granted, via politically incorrect stereotypes that have no place these days. When I was in law school one of my professors was Scottish and he used to illustrate certain legal points by referencing the alleged attributes (stereotypes) of Scotsmen.
As far as suspending or nuking someone just because he continues to post what he believes in, whether or not you agree with it, that's just not right, nor does someone's being passionate about his beliefs and repeating them become trolling (otherwise, EvenBob would have been nuked long ago). Indeed, I am surprised to hear Mission146 advocate such a thing after his speech about the value of MDawg to this forum. While, yes, the Adventures of MDawg were for some reason placed in the Betting Systems section, indeed I have always said that no mechanical betting system works. I've never even said exactly what I do or don't do to win regularly. Point being, that being tossed into the betting systems bin is not nor has it ever been grounds for suspension or nuking.
A suspension for the joke that was in poor taste, sure, but not otherwise.
Is it your contention that an individual should be able to say anything that he wishes, regardless of how hateful it comes off, as long as it wasn't, 'Meant,' as Hate Speech?
To that matter, how could we possibly know the intent of a poster behind a specific statement of, 'Hate Speech?' If we draw the line at what is or is not, 'Meant,' by it, then certainly anyone could say anything that they want to and hide behind the guise of not, 'Meaning,' it that way, could they not?
The question is: Are we going to be the sort of site that allows Hate Speech by a known violator of other rules to go more or less unchecked, or are we going to be the sort of site that stops Hate Speech and cultural stereotyping at the door?
Anyway, I'm not, "Reading anything into," Wellbush's motive. I make my position based on only the words in the post. How could I claim to know what Wellbush's motive is? I never said that Wellbush himself harbors any biases of any kind.
I don't understand the last part of what you said and can't find that quote in the link. To be clear, I don't care and am not accusing you of misquoting***(SEE EDIT), but I have no idea what point you are making. My point is not that Wellbush advocates betting systems; my point is that he committed Hate Speech---which I would think would be a serious offense here---and Wellbush's other posts have virtually zero in the way of value to a gambling forum.
On the other hand, your posts provide non-zero value to the forum. The thread on the suites is very good for those who are concerned about that, for one example.
***Never mind, you didn't misquote me. You didn't close the URL bracket which made it look like I said everything that came after that. It's all good, I wouldn't have requested a suspension for that anyway.
Vote for Mission, he may suck less than the current mods.Quote: DRichVote for Mission, he is probably not the worst choice.
-------------------------------
#WMOAT.
Quote: Mission146My days usually have a tendency to go better the less time I spend interacting with other people, anyway.
(Quote clipped, relevance)
I should really start listening to myself more often.
I have a theory about that.Quote: Mission146
To that matter, how could we possibly know the intent of a poster behind a specific statement of, 'Hate Speech?'
Thank you for thanking my posts. >>>>>>Quote: MDawg
"speech about the value of MDawg to this forum"
WellBush made a joke in poor taste, that was about it. Let's not make a federal case out of it.
Quote: MDawgMission146, I don't think we suspend people based on whether their content is useful or not...which anyway, is subjective.
WellBush made a joke in poor taste, that was about it. Let's not make a federal case out of it.
I certainly did base how strictly I interpreted the Rules on whether or not I believed an individual's posts had value to the forum. It seems to me that most people seemed to like that; the only exceptions tended to be people whose posts added no value to the forum.
Quote: Mission146(Quote clipped, relevance)
I should really start listening to myself more often.
Call it a new "Mission Tradition".
In addition to those things, at a time when it could be reasonably expected that EvenBob saw my quote of him, (or Axel's quote of my comment on EvenBob's post if EvenBob does indeed have me blocked) EvenBob THEN amended his post which would give the impression that I misquoted him for no purpose other than to get him Suspended.
All evidence would suggest that EvenBob did this knowingly and with the intent that I get banned for misquoting. For those reasons, I request that the length of Evenbob's Suspension be reconsidered by all three moderators.
Okay this is the side of Mission146, I don't like to see...one that gets a little too heated and caught up in the moment over something relatively insignificant in the grand scheme of things.
If you were in Vegas right now I'd get hold of you and suggest that you meet me for a comp'ed meal and forget about the WOV for the rest of the day.
EvenBob edited it to try to avoid getting suspended not to try to get you suspended!
