Discussion III about the Suspension List
I can’t imagine spending any time trying to convince that man of something that wasn’t his own original thought, but I find it incredibly entertaining when anyone tries.
So thank you all for your service.
Quote: Mission146...For those reasons, I request that the length of Evenbob's Suspension be reconsidered by all three moderators.
Fill out the appropriate forms, I'm sure they'll get back to you.
Good grief.
Quote: MDawglol come on.
Okay this is the side of Mission146, I don't like to see...one that gets a little too heated and caught up in the moment over something relatively insignificant in the grand scheme of things.
If you were in Vegas right now I'd get hold of you and suggest that you meet me for a comp'ed meal and forget about the WOV for the rest of the day.
EvenBob edited it to try to avoid getting suspended not to try to get you suspended!
What do you mean, 'Heated,' and, 'Caught up,' in things? I didn't have anything to do with that thread prior to quoting EB's post to preserve the personal insult and profanity, so how am I, 'Caught up,' in it? I had nothing to do with the conversation prior to that.
Thanks for the hypothetical invite! I might be around towards the end of the year, so I may take you up on it if it is still on the table at that time.
Anyway, I'd have been done with it until EvenBob edited the post after my quoting it. The least he could have done was shot me a PM so it wouldn't look like I misquoted him. For the record, though I won't say by whom, I was directly asked if I had purposefully misquoted him. That's a fact.
Quote: DieterI believe it is the custom of the moderators to review the offense during the suspension and adjust sentences as is deemed appropriate by cooler heads.
Time for a bit of christian charity, perhaps?
As in "Forgive him, for he knows not about that of which he speaks."
Your bad, you didn't quote!Quote: Mission146Haha, he edited his post. Classic Evenbob. I'm sure that such an edit to avoid punishment and try to make me appear to be a misquoter will be factored into the penalty.
Quote: MrVTime for a bit of christian charity, perhaps?
As in "Forgive him, for he knows not about that of which he speaks."
That particular brand of charity might be better sought from another dispensary.
No insult taken, this time.
Quote: DeMangoYour bad, you didn't quote!
I did. He edited his post well after I quoted him.
a) it was lighthearted in tone, and similar to the jokes of many comedians up until about 25 years ago. I even hear some modern comedians make these kinds of jokes.
b) I am 1/4 Jewish and part Scottish and I did not feel uncomfortable with the joke. I did not detect one drop of hatred in the statement, or one bit of hatemongering -urging us to hate people - in his speech.
Quote: AxelWolfVote for Mission, he may suck less than the current mods.
-------------------------------
#WMOAT.
This is not a criticism of moderator actions, this is just an insult. Suspension for 3 days due to personal insult.
Quote: gordonm888This is not a criticism of moderator actions, this is just an insult. Suspension for 3 days due to personal insult.
It's implied that he means my moderation sucks less than that of the current crop. I don't see how the post could be interpreted any other way.
Quote: Mission146It's implied that he means my moderation sucks less than that of the current crop. I don't see how the post could be interpreted any other way.
Look at what you started, Mission. 😂
Quote: Mission146It's implied that he means my moderation sucks less than that of the current crop. I don't see how the post could be interpreted any other way.
I agree. The whole WMOAT thing is a long running AW joke about the moderators performance on the site (and not about the moderators personally). I am pretty sure Gordon knows this as he has commented on the WMOAT joke recently:
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/off-topic/18435-miscellaneous-discussion-thread/1322/#post817210
Quote: Mission146It's implied that he means my moderation sucks less than that of the current crop. I don't see how the post could be interpreted any other way.
IMO, a post that says "the moderators suck" without any elaboration, is simply name-calling.
In the real world, if someone walked into an area you were in and said "you suck!" you would feel insulted. I know that I would. And I would not countenance that.
If you logged into the 2+2 Poker forum and posted these three words "the Moderators suck", exactly what would you expect to happen?
I am open to criticism, because I may learn from criticism and improve myself. But if someone simply wants to post "The Wizard sucks" or "Mission Sucks" or "Mission sucks less than OnceDear" then there will be consequences -especially when there is no articulation of a rationale for such a statement. Because these are not critical statements about actions, they are intended to belittle and to insult.
Quote: gordonm888IMO, a post that says "the moderators suck" without any elaboration, is simply name-calling.
If someone walked into an area you were in and said "you suck!" you would feel insulted. I know that I would. And I would not countenance that.
If you logged into the 2+2 Poker forum and posted these three words "the Moderators suck", exactly what would you expect to happen?
I am open to criticism, because I may learn from criticism and improve myself. But if someone simply wants to post "The Wizard sucks" or "Mission Sucks" or "Mission sucks less than OnceDear" then there will be consequences -especially when there is no articulation of a rationale for such a statement. Because these are not critical statements about actions, they are intended to belittle and to insult.
-bolding mine-
I agree with most of this post, but the bolded section is not correct. AW included "#WMOAT" in the post. Thus it was a joke. Oncedear has been tolerant of "WMOAT" for some time now. If you (or other mods) no longer want to allow the WMOAT joke to continue moving forward, then please let everyone know so suspensions can be avoided.
We all make mistakes, this one is an easy fix. Free AxelWolf.
Quote: KeeneoneQuote: gordonm888IMO, a post that says "the moderators suck" without any elaboration, is simply name-calling.
If someone walked into an area you were in and said "you suck!" you would feel insulted. I know that I would. And I would not countenance that.
If you logged into the 2+2 Poker forum and posted these three words "the Moderators suck", exactly what would you expect to happen?
I am open to criticism, because I may learn from criticism and improve myself. But if someone simply wants to post "The Wizard sucks" or "Mission Sucks" or "Mission sucks less than OnceDear" then there will be consequences -especially when there is no articulation of a rationale for such a statement. Because these are not critical statements about actions, they are intended to belittle and to insult.
-bolding mine-
I agree with most of this post, but the bolded section is not correct. AW included "#WMOAT" in the post. Thus it was a joke. Oncedear has been tolerant of "WMOAT" for some time now. If you (or other mods) no longer want to allow the WMOAT joke to continue moving forward, then please let everyone know so suspensions can be avoided.
We all make mistakes, this one is an easy fix. Free AxelWolf.
I agree. Feels like entrapment to be tolerant of and even encourage WMOAT then do this.
Quote: gordonm888While the suspension of WellBush was righteous, in my opinion, I don't believe his ethnic stereotype joke qualifies as "hate speech."
a) it was lighthearted in tone, and similar to the jokes of many comedians up until about 25 years ago. I even hear some modern comedians make these kinds of jokes.
b) I am 1/4 Jewish and part Scottish and I did not feel uncomfortable with the joke. I did not detect one drop of hatred in the statement, or one bit of hatemongering -urging us to hate people - in his speech.
IMO, the concept of someone in authority "standing up" or defending anyone who might somehow be offended by an off hand or even mean-spirited remark is ridiculous. I do not want anyone to "fight" my battles. My intellect and self-esteem are strong enough so that my forms of retaliation will get the appropriate point across. In fact, I have been suspended for defending myself because those same "powers" thought I "crossed a line" they thought to be unacceptable.
It is truly unfortunate that so many of the younger members have not been exposed to likes of Don Rickles, Joey Bishop, Jerry Lewis, Mort Sahl, Johnny Carson, Howie Mandel, and many others in a concert setting.
WellBush's comment was mild, not real funny, not offensive, not hate speech just poorly placed.
The mods need to step back and let us deal with those who might have ill intentions. We are intuitive enough to know what is real.
If a mod thinks he or she has been "insulted," use your intellect and fight back, and at the same time, end it and move on.
tuttigym
Quote: Mission146
Thanks for the hypothetical invite! I might be around towards the end of the year, so I may take you up on it if it is still on the table at that time.
Mission, please don't get carried away here, as it is not your wonderful personality that got you the invite. Besides, it is not like MDawg is actually buying you a meal, he would not pay money for that, it's a comped meal. Of course, you will be stuck with the tip, which may have been his motive, to begin with.
Quote: tuttigymIMO, the concept of someone in authority "standing up" or defending anyone who might somehow be offended by an off hand or even mean-spirited remark is ridiculous. I do not want anyone to "fight" my battles. My intellect and self-esteem are strong enough so that my forms of retaliation will get the appropriate point across. In fact, I have been suspended for defending myself because those same "powers" thought I "crossed a line" they thought to be unacceptable.
It is truly unfortunate that so many of the younger members have not been exposed to likes of Don Rickles, Joey Bishop, Jerry Lewis, Mort Sahl, Johnny Carson, Howie Mandel, and many others in a concert setting.
WellBush's comment was mild, not real funny, not offensive, not hate speech just poorly placed.
The mods need to step back and let us deal with those who might have ill intentions. We are intuitive enough to know what is real.
If a mod thinks he or she has been "insulted," use your intellect and fight back, and at the same time, end it and move on.
tuttigym
I agree with most of what you say, tuttigym. Thank you for saying it.
Quote: BoSoxMission, please don't get carried away here, as it is not your wonderful personality that got you the invite. Besides, it is not like MDawg is actually buying you a meal, he would not pay money for that, it's a comped meal. Of course, you will be stuck with the tip, which may have been the motive, to begin with.
He's rich; I'm not. Why would you assume that I'd be stuck with the tip? I'd offer to cover it, of course.
I guess that could be the motive, but it seems a strange one for someone who is already wealthy. I think we can both agree that it's not my wonderful personality. He has nothing to gain from me financially, but we do have similar taste in music and I am sometimes capable of an intellectually stimulating conversation, so it might be that.
Quote: Mission146He's rich; I'm not. Why would you assume that I'd be stuck with the tip? I'd offer to cover it, of course.
I guess that could be the motive, but it seems a strange one for someone who is already wealthy. I think we can both agree that it's not my wonderful personality. He has nothing to gain from me financially, but we do have similar taste in music and I am sometimes capable of an intellectually stimulating conversation, so it might be that.
Sorry, I am just messing with both of you a little bit.
Heck, you didn't even need Tinder.
Quote: gordonm888I agree with most of what you say, tuttigym. Thank you for saying it.
Thank you for the affirmation. It means alot.
tuttigym
Quote: gordonm888IMO, a post that says "the moderators suck" without any elaboration, is simply name-calling.
In the real world, if someone walked into an area you were in and said "you suck!" you would feel insulted. I know that I would. And I would not countenance that.
If you logged into the 2+2 Poker forum and posted these three words "the Moderators suck", exactly what would you expect to happen?
I am open to criticism, because I may learn from criticism and improve myself. But if someone simply wants to post "The Wizard sucks" or "Mission Sucks" or "Mission sucks less than OnceDear" then there will be consequences -especially when there is no articulation of a rationale for such a statement. Because these are not critical statements about actions, they are intended to belittle and to insult.
1.) If some random person said, "You suck," to me, then I would feel insulted? No. I wouldn't care. Why would I care about some random person who thinks that I suck? Besides, as long as he's not referring to the physical sense of the word, he's probably right.
2.) I've never been a Member of that Forum with a long-running joke feud between the Moderator(s) and myself with thousands of posts to my name overall, so it makes sense that they would ban me for that.
3.) They can post, "Mission sucks," all they want to as far as I am concerned. Why should the Moderators bend over backwards to find an insult about something clearly having to do with moderation---as opposed to the moderators themselves---anyway?
Well, I seriously doubt Axelwolf cares, or if he does, then he'll just stop posting here. No reason I should waste more words on this than he probably will.
Quote: Mission146... I am sometimes capable of an intellectually stimulating conversation, so it might be that.
???
Quote: DRich???
Yeah, that was a reach.
More ornery.
Quote: KeeneoneI agree. The whole WMOAT thing is a long running AW joke about the moderators performance on the site (and not about the moderators personally).
Quote: JBThis forum is designed to be self-moderating.
Emphasis mine.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/info/rules/2-forum-rules/#post2
I believe this post has been up since day 1.
If we can do it, you all can too!
Quote: mwalz9I feel like everyone other than MDawg and myself be suspended indefinitely until you all can get along like we decided to!
Any members wishing to avail themselves of our self-exclusion services are invited to contact a moderator.
edit: There is also a button that says "CANCEL" slightly to the right of the button that says "POST", which members may freely use as they feel is appropriate.
Quote: DieterQuote: JBThis forum is designed to be self-moderating.
Emphasis mine.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/info/rules/2-forum-rules/#post2
I believe this post has been up since day 1.
I appreciate you taking the time to respond to my post in this thread.
I must admit, I do not understand what you are saying with your response.
Quote: DieterAny members wishing to avail themselves of our self-exclusion services are invited to contact a moderator.
edit: There is also a button that says "CANCEL" slightly to the right of the button that says "POST", which members may freely use as they feel is appropriate.
I hope everyone realizes, I was joking!
I would like to see us all coexist better, but it was a complete joke.
Quote: mwalz9
I would like to see us all coexist better, but it was a complete joke.
Same here, although I'd replace the comma with a period and lose the rest.
As for the other matter,
We're all adults. Some degree of self control is reasonably expected.
Don't forget to peek over at the blog section from time to time!
-Mission146
Quote: billryanI thought the blog section was unmoderated and one could say whatever batshite crazy ideas one wished to put on paper.
There's Spam afoot.
My understanding is this is supposed to a PG forum ,meaning discussions and language should be held to the standard of what is acceptable in a PG movie.
I used the term bullshit to describe a firms position. Not used against a member, but a firm. That word is used in PG movies and lately I've even seen it on a TNT program. Is it acceptable here, and if not is bullspit a better term to use? It seems silly when everyone will understand the word I'd prefer to use but I'll will abide by your rulings. Thanks.
Quote: billryanA question to the mods.
My understanding is this is supposed to a PG forum ,meaning discussions and language should be held to the standard of what is acceptable in a PG movie.
I used the term bullshit to describe a firms position. Not used against a member, but a firm. That word is used in PG movies and lately I've even seen it on a TNT program. Is it acceptable here, and if not is bullspit a better term to use? It seems silly when everyone will understand the word I'd prefer to use but I'll will abide by your rulings. Thanks.
I'm against any rule that would restrict profanity for its own sake and would prefer a subjective determination on when profanity has become unreasonable. For example, if someone says something graphic or uses the F-Word every third word in a post, then I could see the problem.
My amended quote of your post was done only out of an overabundance of caution. Until you edited your post, my post had a clear indicator that the above quote was edited to mask the profanity.
Quote: billryanA question to the mods.
My understanding is this is supposed to a PG forum ,meaning discussions and language should be held to the standard of what is acceptable in a PG movie.
I used the term bullshit to describe a firms position. Not used against a member, but a firm. That word is used in PG movies and lately I've even seen it on a TNT program. Is it acceptable here, and if not is bullspit a better term to use? It seems silly when everyone will understand the word I'd prefer to use but I'll will abide by your rulings. Thanks.
I agree with this (see Bill we can agree on something)
For the record I was once suspended for using the letters BS. "Masked profanity" was the reason given.
So this whole thing sounds Shakey to me.
Quote: billryanI understand your thinking and appreciate the heads up, but I'd like to see what the mods have to say. I generally avoid profanity but on occasion, there is no word that gets the point across better than that one.
I wasn't clear.
I was saying the mods position on profanity was Shakey, not your position.
You can't say it but can't mask it either?
Even Mad magazine does it **#@)))#
Quote: Mission146I'm against any rule that would restrict profanity for its own sake and would prefer a subjective determination on when profanity has become unreasonable. For example, if someone says something graphic or uses the F-Word every third word in a post, then I could see the problem.
Using any word, every third word, in one word, is a WORD usage problem, in my word filled opinion.
Quote: billryanI wasn't responding to you.
Well use the quote function next time so people know.
Thanks.
Attention in Kandahar - All local media outlets in #Kandahar (radios & televisions) are informed that music & programs that involve women's voices or women in some way will no longer be permitted.
#Taliban
