Discussion II about the Suspension List

Quote: Wizardofnothing

Yes I spoke to kj as well via email and judging on the two sides I would say nothing norm pressed the issue and is 72.8 percent at fault kj 23.2 and Mike 4 percent

We keep trying to apply fault/blame but at the end of the day all that matters is the forum loses. QFIT has provided zero value to this forum and managed to get one the forums best posters kicked out. Apparently now anything involving KJ is being censored which is pretty crazy IMO but that's all it is is my opinion and my opinion doesn't mean much. I just think this is crazy, good members are now getting suspended for voicing their opinions on issues on this forum? I doubt we will ever get the full story which is a shame cause it could end all this nonsense for good. The forum is hurting and all anybody wants to do is continue to take sides and fight.

Is the thread or threads that this occurred in still available? I've had limited interactions with Norm, but he has always struck me as slow to rile. I'd like to see what set him off.

Quote: billryan

Is the thread or threads that this occurred in still available? I've had limited interactions with Norm, but he has always struck me as slow to rile. I'd like to see what set him off.

Debates with others on bjtf about how newbies should start and what count to use.

Quote: Ibeatyouraces

Debates with others on bjtf about how newbies should start and what count to use.

Any chance for a link? My search skills suck. Still haven't figured out how to start a thread. Not that I have anything useful to say.

There's a lot of threads. I got a little bit of a similar treatment when I started posting there. They advised complete newbies that didn't know basic strategy to learn level 3 counts because "omg those pennies per hour are so important." Then, their own simulations proved my math that it was in fact just pennies per hour, to which a newbie would lose 10 folds due to the counting mistakes they'd make with a more complex system.

Next, there's a small group of regular posters on there that KJ more/less accused of trying to charge newbies for basic information (which was in large the main people advising the advanced counts). While I've never seen this personally on the forums, there is a bit of a feel of always "pm me and we can talk about your basic questions." If they're basic, why does it need a PM? Anyways, like I said I haven't seen anything conclusive either way (other than 1 completely separate guy trying to book an hourly rate to teach people LESS INFORMATION than are in my FREE articles on this site and I laid in to him a bit for it).

This thing between them goes back a ways from what I can tell. I think it started with the counting debate / accusing members of charging newbies, but then extended to KJ supposedly saying horrible things about Norm on another forums site... Which I can neither confirm nor deny, and after that it was all down hill. Those two BOTH seem to set each other off just by mentioning each others names. Neither of them separate would come across like a tempered person, but put them even in the same thread and fireworks are sure to follow.

There were a couple of other threads discussing the direct events between Norm/KJ but a couple that made Norm look bad he removed...

Thanks. I didn't particularly care for the crowd that went there when BJinfo shut down. I thought going to a paid subscription would improve it. Doesn't sound like it did.

Quote: Wizardofnothing

Yes I spoke to kj as well via email and judging on the two sides I would say nothing norm pressed the issue and is 72.8 percent at fault kj 23.2 and Mike 4 percent

Well assuming you are not being sarcastic, Norm should also be removed. I think that is what the gist of the arguments are all about.

Perhaps those posters who feel they've grievances which management fails to address should "go on strike," i.e. not post until their requested changes are made.

They could announce the fact of their "strike," list their requests, and then go silent.

Why continue to post here if it isn't to your liking?

There are other gambling boards out there.

Why would a moderator bother to comment in a thread that the Wizard had already shut down? Oh...Oh...I was going to do that...glad you did it...

The Kewlj thing won't go away for many of us because (and who knows what really happened...we can't see private emails and PMs and decide for ourselves but we can be told how bad they were...) it looks like QFIT got here, got in it with Kewlj a little bit over past points of contention, and away goes Kewlj. The optics just aren't good and I am not taking anyone's word for it being just that bad...especially since QFIT, a non-contributing member for years, helped Kewlj see the door and then continued to participate as much as he had before he came here... What does that look like to most reasonable people, given the limited information we supposedly have?

Kewlj was one of the best posters on this board. His loss is noticed. Lose many more like him, and there won't be much left.

The more I read the more I think norm is to fault/ slightly surprised at the lack of transparency from the wiz as well

Quote: RonC

Why would a moderator bother to comment in a thread that the Wizard had already shut down? Oh...Oh...I was going to do that...glad you did it...

The Kewlj thing won't go away for many of us because (and who knows what really happened...we can't see private emails and PMs and decide for ourselves but we can be told how bad they were...) it looks like QFIT got here, got in it with Kewlj a little bit over past points of contention, and away goes Kewlj. The optics just aren't good and I am not taking anyone's word for it being just that bad...especially since QFIT, a non-contributing member for years, helped Kewlj see the door and then continued to participate as much as he had before he came here... What does that look like to most reasonable people, given the limited information we supposedly have?

Kewlj was one of the best posters on this board. His loss is noticed. Lose many more like him, and there won't be much left.

I did it to brighten up your day, of course. Why else?

Really.

:)

Quote: Wizardofnothing

The more I read the more I think norm is to fault/ slightly surprised at the lack of transparency from the wiz as well

I am just disappointed in the whole situation. It was handled poorly and the members of the forum are the ones suffering. RonC is completely correct, we lost a great member and will continue to lose good posters as long as this situation is dealt with in the way it has been so far.

Quote: PokerGrinder

I am just disappointed in the whole situation. It was handled poorly and the members of the forum are the ones suffering. RonC is completely correct, we lost a great member and will continue to lose good posters as long as this situation is dealt with in the way it has been so far.

May I, a moment?

An overwhelming majority is upset and/or even sad over the loss of KewlJ. A loss of someone as compelling as he would rock most any forum. We've seen it before with the loss of high profile members, but perhaps none of whom was as universally liked as KJ. It stings. Maybe even a lot.

But while that incident may have caused damage, where we are now is not entirely the result of that action. I'm sure everyone understands that what they supply here is "no longer theirs", at least in a legal sense. We have no claim to works or the site itself, we cannot benefit, we cannot control. But in all the ways that matter, I think we absolutely do. We own this place. We control this place. We make this place. Breaking down the math of games, offering inventions for critique and comment, announcing opportunities and networking, sharing TR's, sharing personal glory, sharing personal sorrow... that's you. That's us.

With what's been provided to the forum, I do not expect KJ to be back. That's a hit to the forum. But this talk about "going downhill", that's on no one but us. Every person who hits "post" influences the tone of the forum. Every critique, every praise, every jab, every virtual hug tips the forum this way or that. That's us. Every recent thread, every new thread, every HOT thread. That's us.

Ghandi, man. You come here for an experience. Well, my friends, you make this place. Make it the place you want it to be. Be the change you want to see.



(A box of facial soap. A "Face soap box". See what I did there? =p)

Quote: Face

May I, a moment?

An overwhelming majority is upset and/or even sad over the loss of KewlJ. A loss of someone as compelling as he would rock most any forum. We've seen it before with the loss of high profile members, but perhaps none of whom was as universally liked as KJ. It stings. Maybe even a lot.

But while that incident may have caused damage, where we are now is not entirely the result of that action. I'm sure everyone understands that what they supply here is "no longer theirs", at least in a legal sense. We have no claim to works or the site itself, we cannot benefit, we cannot control. But in all the ways that matter, I think we absolutely do. We own this place. We control this place. We make this place. Breaking down the math of games, offering inventions for critique and comment, announcing opportunities and networking, sharing TR's, sharing personal glory, sharing personal sorrow... that's you. That's us.

With what's been provided to the forum, I do not expect KJ to be back. That's a hit to the forum. But this talk about "going downhill", that's on no one but us. Every person who hits "post" influences the tone of the forum. Every critique, every praise, every jab, every virtual hug tips the forum this way or that. That's us. Every recent thread, every new thread, every HOT thread. That's us.

Ghandi, man. You come here for an experience. Well, my friends, you make this place. Make it the place you want it to be. Be the change you want to see.



(A box of facial soap. A "Face soap box". See what I did there? =p)

TRANSLATION : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=StJS51d1Fzg

Quote: Face

May I, a moment?

An overwhelming majority is upset and/or even sad over the loss of KewlJ. A loss of someone as compelling as he would rock most any forum. We've seen it before with the loss of high profile members, but perhaps none of whom was as universally liked as KJ. It stings. Maybe even a lot.

But while that incident may have caused damage, where we are now is not entirely the result of that action. I'm sure everyone understands that what they supply here is "no longer theirs", at least in a legal sense. We have no claim to works or the site itself, we cannot benefit, we cannot control. But in all the ways that matter, I think we absolutely do. We own this place. We control this place. We make this place. Breaking down the math of games, offering inventions for critique and comment, announcing opportunities and networking, sharing TR's, sharing personal glory, sharing personal sorrow... that's you. That's us.

With what's been provided to the forum, I do not expect KJ to be back. That's a hit to the forum. But this talk about "going downhill", that's on no one but us. Every person who hits "post" influences the tone of the forum. Every critique, every praise, every jab, every virtual hug tips the forum this way or that. That's us. Every recent thread, every new thread, every HOT thread. That's us.

Ghandi, man. You come here for an experience. Well, my friends, you make this place. Make it the place you want it to be. Be the change you want to see.



(A box of facial soap. A "Face soap box". See what I did there? =p)

Really well said. Thanks.

Quote: Face

Well, my friends, you make this place. Make it the place you want it to be. Be the change you want to see.

Okay, you asked. Stop the Martingale of Punishment. Tear down the wall Mr Gorbachev of shame. Time outs are whats needed. Be it a week or a month. We would still have B9 and BBB and Buzzard. Nuke Qfit for the ultimate crime of messing with this board. Suspend Mike for three months because he allowed this all to happen. This crap is making me miss the days of MKL and Jimbo da Bimbo!

Quote: DeMango

Quote: Face

Well, my friends, you make this place. Make it the place you want it to be. Be the change you want to see.

Okay, you asked. Stop the Martingale of Punishment. Tear down the wall Mr Gorbachev of shame. Time outs are whats needed. Be it a week or a month. We would still have B9 and BBB and Buzzard. Nuke Qfit for the ultimate crime of messing with this board. Suspend Mike for three months because he allowed this all to happen. This crap is making me miss the days of MKL and Jimbo da Bimbo!

I did not ask a single question.

Not all of your requests are unreasonable. Some requests may even be popular. Other requests are opinion. At least one request is conjecture. But it's certainly a fair list of requests. And plenty of requests from which to chose.

But nowhere do I see "What can DeMango do."

If you expect others to solve your problems, what else do you expect other than their solutions?

Quote: Face

May I, a moment?

An overwhelming majority is upset and/or even sad over the loss of KewlJ. A loss of someone as compelling as he would rock most any forum. We've seen it before with the loss of high profile members, but perhaps none of whom was as universally liked as KJ. It stings. Maybe even a lot.

But while that incident may have caused damage, where we are now is not entirely the result of that action. I'm sure everyone understands that what they supply here is "no longer theirs", at least in a legal sense. We have no claim to works or the site itself, we cannot benefit, we cannot control. But in all the ways that matter, I think we absolutely do. We own this place. We control this place. We make this place. Breaking down the math of games, offering inventions for critique and comment, announcing opportunities and networking, sharing TR's, sharing personal glory, sharing personal sorrow... that's you. That's us.

With what's been provided to the forum, I do not expect KJ to be back. That's a hit to the forum. But this talk about "going downhill", that's on no one but us. Every person who hits "post" influences the tone of the forum. Every critique, every praise, every jab, every virtual hug tips the forum this way or that. That's us. Every recent thread, every new thread, every HOT thread. That's us.

Ghandi, man. You come here for an experience. Well, my friends, you make this place. Make it the place you want it to be. Be the change you want to see.



(A box of facial soap. A "Face soap box". See what I did there? =p)

I agree that we need to be responsible for making this forum what we want it to be but... I personally, and I think others as well would like the lies, actually lies is the wrong word, sugar coating to stop. I think that the members who put so much time into this forum DESERVE to have everyone involved to tell the public what really happened and why we no longer have KJ here.

I like Mike very much and enjoyed the time that I spent with him in Vegas recently but I don't think he is coming off very well in all of this staying basically silent. KJ has given us his acount of everything that happened and although I personally believe what he is saying, he could be exaggerating or painting Mike and QFIT in a bad way. However if Mike won't allow us to know his side of the story it makes you think that what KJ is saying is all correct. The third party in all this is QFIT and I don't think that man has anything of value to post as he started all this garbage in the first place.

Agreed!!!!!!!

But look at this valuable post on April 25 , a mere 35 days ago, no more since then.
QFIT "If you have any trouble sounding condescending, find a Unix user to show you how it's done."

- Scott Adams

My, what more can I say in his defense?

Quote: Face

Not all of your requests are unreasonable. Some requests may even be popular. Other requests are opinion. At least one request is conjecture. But it's certainly a fair list of requests. And plenty of requests from which to chose.

But nowhere do I see "What can DeMango do."

If you expect others to solve your problems, what else do you expect other than their solutions?

DeMango has enjoyed his time here, but then it has gone downhill probably with the early losses of valuable posters in the last two years. It is not what I can do but what the mods can do to undo all the damage. I was personally surprised when I brought a gay slur to the attention to a mod against KJ on one of his blogs, last January. Crickets. I resent. Crickets. Then this. So there is a possibility that things were stacked against KJ from even before QFIT came here hunting a scalp.

Quote: PokerGrinder

I agree that we need to be responsible for making this forum what we want it to be but... I personally, and I think others as well would like the lies, actually lies is the wrong word, sugar coating to stop. I think that the members who put so much time into this forum DESERVE to have everyone involved to tell the public what really happened and why we no longer have KJ here.

I like Mike very much and enjoyed the time that I spent with him in Vegas recently but I don't think he is coming off very well in all of this staying basically silent. KJ has given us his acount of everything that happened and although I personally believe what he is saying, he could be exaggerating or painting Mike and QFIT in a bad way. However if Mike won't allow us to know his side of the story it makes you think that what KJ is saying is all correct. The third party in all this is QFIT and I don't think that man has anything of value to post as he started all this garbage in the first place.

Mike's already stated he feels he can't go into much more detail without revealing personal correspondence. Something I agree with. I don't expect him to change that position.

QFit said, in some thread or another that he had reached out to Mike about "personal attacks." It became clear enough that he considers anything negative about him to be a personal attack.

Mike tried to broker a truce. KJ broke the terms of the truce, one sided though it may have been. Things escalated and here we are.

I don't know what the details matter. It's pretty obvious KJ ain't coming back at this point. The level of acrimony is just too high. I think QFit is mostly to blame and that he threw his weight around as a "famous" BJ guy to swat a gadfly. Our forum had little to do with their rivalry and he had no business sticking his nose in here.

Mike could have handled it better. KJ could have handled it better. But, probably, neither foresaw things reaching this point. I don't think either is particularly obligated to elaborate on their accounts.

It's a big blow to the forum, and a nice win for QFIT, but there's nothing to be done at this point.

Quote: PokerGrinder

I am just disappointed in the whole situation. It was handled poorly and the members of the forum are the ones suffering. RonC is completely correct, we lost a great member and will continue to lose good posters as long as this situation is dealt with in the way it has been so far.

I am just chalking it up to a qabalistic forum instigating terrorist.

Quote: MaxPen

I am just chalking it up to a qabalistic forum instigating terrorist.

Why do they keep closing certain boards to posting? There's so many good boards on this site, any off topic board probably could be left alone. People don't have to read them. Maybe make the controversial ones premium or limited in some way. Just closing them down doesn't seem right. Why not just remove them from public view totally. Even though this thread is a very small part of the whole site, it still represents the forum site itself as well. All this bickering just isn't good for a sound business.

Sorry, my 2 and half cents worth.

What about a barred members thread? Where only barred members could post? Respectable members could then chose to read or not read that thread. Without fear of the unwashed posting on any other thread.

Quote: onalinehorse

What about a barred members thread? Where only barred members could post? Respectable members could then chose to read or not read that thread. Without fear of the unwashed posting on any other thread.

That's already available, isn't it? It's just on another site.

Quote: beachbumbabs

That's already available, isn't it? It's just on another site.

Babs, on fire with the jokes... +1.

Got 'em!

Quote: onalinehorse

What about a barred members thread? Where only barred members could post? Respectable members could then chose to read or not read that thread. Without fear of the unwashed posting on any other thread.

It's called gamblingforums.com.

I actually think a "private" thread would be interesting, something where you have to get a special passcode to view and post in it after x number of days and or posts. People could opt in to allow personal insults from particular members if they wish to have a flame war or whatever. The thread could have less censorship within reason, no threats, family member insults or racist crap, PM's. But If I wanted to call Hillary Clinton a _____ I could. (I still can't understand how someone got suspended for calling her a lesbian) If people wanted to call eachother names then have at it.

Quote: AxelWolf

(I still can't understand how someone got suspended for calling her a lesbian)

No one got suspended for simply calling her a lesbian.

Thanks for the info Axle. Some people just slow down when passing a car wreck. I prefer to stop and take in the ambiance.

Quote: ams288

No one got suspended for simply calling her a lesbian.

Please don't ruin my delusions unless it involves a betting system.

Quote: ams288

No one got suspended for simply calling her a lesbian.

Well, that is good. That means that no one has been suspended for calling someone "gay" or "lesbian" in spite of a variety of reports out there!

Quote: DeMango

It is not what I can do but what the mods can do to undo all the damage.

I can understand that view. DeMango has done nothing, yet here he is suffering. DeMango did not ban, DeMango did not stir the pot, DeMango is not involved at all. Yet here's Face saying "DeMango, fix it." Fair? Perhaps not.

But where we are right now is "the mod's fix". It's not great. It's not even good. Every single decision made by us (or at least me) is one where I can look back and say "that could've been done better". Even the good ones that could've been great. The great ones that could've been fantastic. The fantastic ones perfect.

The results of this one are s#$%. But that is the result. That is "our fix". I can take this, study it, and try to do better in the future. And I will. I can try with what influence and intelligence I have to try to find a silver lining or a different way to look at things. And I'm trying. But a "fix" that will please you is not within my scope of abilities. I can't fix this. But I do believe that, perhaps, we can.

Quote: PokerGrinder

I agree that we need to be responsible for making this forum what we want it to be but... I personally, and I think others as well would like the lies, actually lies is the wrong word, sugar coating to stop. I think that the members who put so much time into this forum DESERVE to have everyone involved to tell the public what really happened and why we no longer have KJ here.

I like Mike very much and enjoyed the time that I spent with him in Vegas recently but I don't think he is coming off very well in all of this staying basically silent. KJ has given us his acount of everything that happened and although I personally believe what he is saying, he could be exaggerating or painting Mike and QFIT in a bad way. However if Mike won't allow us to know his side of the story it makes you think that what KJ is saying is all correct. The third party in all this is QFIT and I don't think that man has anything of value to post as he started all this garbage in the first place.

But Grinder, you were told. There was a beef between QFIT and KJ. They have both have said as much. Wiz brokered a deal between the two as far as WoV was considered. He has said as much. Whether said deal was fair and just is not something I know, nor is it my concern, nor do I necessarily think it was anyone's concern but those involved. The deal, crooked or otherwise, was agreed upon and then broken. Said break resulted in an epic conflagration between KJ and QFIT the likes of which I have never seen on WoV, and this is coming from someone who survived years of Jerry Logan.

Everyone has a choice, man. KJ, from what he has posted, obviously felt that the points he needed to make were of the utmost importance. He chose to make himself heard. QFIT could've dropped it or just stayed in his own playground. He chose to stay with it and bring it here. Wiz could've stepped back, washed his hands, delegated it to a minion. He chose to act. The results of these choices means KJ is gone. Any one of them could've done any other thing. They didn't. And here we are.

Choices, man. Some since have chose to harangue QFIT. Some have chose to criticize Mike. Some go after moderation as a whole. Some point at KJ. Some have gone to other forums. Choice after choice after choice. You're about to make one right now, and you will again in the near future. All I'm asking is for everyone to ask themselves "What kind of choice do I want to make?"

Face can't fix this. Face can't control people. The best I can do is influence by leading by example. This is my attempt at that. And though my single voice may get drowned in the din, and my meek self get bowled over by the weight of the problem, "the problem" is something I won't be a part of. That's my choice.

Make yours. And may you find it within yourself to make it a good one.

Quote: Rigondeaux

Mike's already stated he feels he can't go into much more detail without revealing personal correspondence. Something I agree with. I don't expect him to change that position.

QFit said, in some thread or another that he had reached out to Mike about "personal attacks." It became clear enough that he considers anything negative about him to be a personal attack.

Mike tried to broker a truce. KJ broke the terms of the truce, one sided though it may have been. Things escalated and here we are.

I don't know what the details matter. It's pretty obvious KJ ain't coming back at this point. The level of acrimony is just too high....

Mike could have handled it better. KJ could have handled it better. But, probably, neither foresaw things reaching this point. I don't think either is particularly obligated to elaborate on their accounts.

It's a big blow to the forum, and a nice win for QFIT, but there's nothing to be done at this point.

I couldn't have said it better myself, after snipping out the QFIT part. Thank you. I can't really tell my side of it without quoting from private communication. Despite KJ not honoring that agreement, I try to be a man of my word as best I can.

As I've said before, I admit I could have handled it better and will accept my fair share of the blame. I will also admit that being rather salty since the death threat. I'm still seeking justice through law enforcement on that, so I am still not exactly in the best of moods.

I have reached out to Zuga for advice and will accept whatever he suggests. Meanwhile, I will take a step back for a while and let the dust settle. To those who feel they must leave over this, I say do what you have to do. You're welcome back anytime.

Thank you for listening.

Quote: RonC

Well, that is good. That means that no one has been suspended for calling someone "gay" or "lesbian" in spite of a variety of reports out there!

Yep. People can feel free to call Hillary a lesbian (even though she's not).

Just as I am free to call Matt Drudge gay (because he is).

I don't know any of the posters here, as far as I know. I know of Norm from another site, as well as his own. His software helped shape my game and he was always helpful.
It's a shame he won't post here, I'm sure he could help many of you improve your game.
I see that several posters here have said they have written books. May I ask which ones? From 1999 to about 2007, I read just about every book out there and gained something from most of them.
I joined hoping to get insight on Vegas. There's not a whole lot of that going on just
now.

Quote: ams288

Yep. People can feel free to call Hillary a lesbian (even though she's not).

To the best of your knowledge. You probably thought Ellen Degeneres was straight when she started her career.

Personally I didn't care if she's gay, straight, asexual, bisexual<(my guess) but some people do.

I choose to believe the rumors especially the Flowers statement that Bill said Hillary had “eaten more P*** than he had.

Quote: AxelWolf

To the best of your knowledge. You probably thought Ellen Degeneres was straight when she started her career.

I wasn't born when Ellen Degeneres started her career.

Quote: Wizard

I couldn't have said it better myself, after snipping out the QFIT part. Thank you. I can't really tell my side of it without quoting from private communication. Despite KJ not honoring that agreement, I try to be a man of my word as best I can.

As I've said before, I admit I could have handled it better and will accept my fair share of the blame. I will also admit that being rather salty since the death threat. I'm still seeking justice through law enforcement on that, so I am still not exactly in the best of moods.

I have reached out to Zuga for advice and will accept whatever he suggests. Meanwhile, I will take a step back for a while and let the dust settle. To those who feel they must leave over this, I say do what you have to do. You're welcome back anytime.

Thank you for listening.

Just so I/we understand this correctly you're talking about the MC death threats ? KJ didn't threaten you did he? Apparently he thought about going to your house to hand deliver a letter but sent it instead. I'm thinking, WOW time for him to take an internet vacation and clear his head.

Quote: ams288

I wasn't born when Ellen Degeneres started her career.

Ok, Clay Aiken before he came out.

Quote: AxelWolf

Ok, Clay Aiken before he came out.

You probably don't want to play this game with me. I have a very good gaydar. Most gay men do.

No matter how you spin it, something happened somewhere else, to no if little concern to us. Actions were taken and the avenger appeared to make sure the result was nuclear. And now it's mea culpa, let me take a break. Sad.

There is a hell of a lot of difference between a death threat and someone saying they thought about bringing you a letter. I hope you didn't contact authorities about that one...it didn't seem like a threat at all; just a request to be actually heard over the noise of QFIT complaining*.

*I have that opinion based on what I have read here, not actual knowledge of the situation behind the scenes. That appears to be Top Secret!

Oh, QFIT, how have you been?

Quote: ams288

You probably don't want to play this game with me. I have a very good gaydar. Most gay men do.

As do gay women. I traveled to a conference with a lesbian friend. When we would go out I would point to a woman, and she would say "you" meaning the girl was straight, or "me" meaning the girl was lesbian. She also would use terms like "100 yarder" meaning she could tell from quite a distance that the woman was gay.

I am glad I restarted this thread a few days back. There have been some decent conversations and level-headedness, especially from Face.
I joined this forum last year and the bantering and the contributions were great. I left for a while and it seems like the traffic in the entire craps area slowed down to a crawl. Back then Ahigh, dicesitter, and others posted quite a bit. Now I hardly see any posting. Honestly if it has not been for my renewed interest in BJ or my new interest in slot and VP, I might not have come back. I hope that this site will continue to have great postings.

You all appear to want someone to talk to you about recent events. But, you have displayed little interest in listening. I stopped responding here six weeks ago since everything I said was ignored and you continued, and still continue, to repeat this cartoonish belief that I came here with evil intent (totally contrary to my decades long reputation), instead of to provide info on the free Blackjack Weather Center. Seriously guys, this thread sounds like something out of an old time, silent movie melodrama; where the evil banker rubs his hands and twists his moustache in glee as his minions tie the fair maiden to the railroad tracks. Life is not black-and-white, good-and-evil. (Albeit, you wouldn’t gather that from the current political circus.) It amazes me that anyone is actually falling for the picture painted here and at five other forums by one person. It makes no sense.

Look, just today, at the site where KJ is posting, someone accused my relatives of incest and sodomy, claiming I altered my name because of this. The forum KJ posted before that (where he himself calls me Stinky Watten-boogie and claims I don’t bathe) has accused me of pedophilia, being a part of the “Jewish conspiracy” to fly planes into the WTC on 9/11, and the “Obama conspiracy” to kill tens of millions of Americans with Ebola, among dozens of other paranoid nonsense. And now they have started on Mike, with the suggestion to do what they have done to me – repeat his full name over and over to get high Google ranking to harm him personally.

Such is the life of an admin. Mike spent years publishing massive, free studies and providing a free place to chat. As Clare Boothe Luce once said: “Let no good deed go unpunished.”

Perhaps if you show some inclination to listening instead of repeating, ad infinitum, nonsensical characterizations and constructions based on no evidence, someone will answer your calls for information. Until then, you are just fomenting discord in the community.

I have a better idea. Listen to Face. Start posting useful content about the subject of this forum and stop indulging in rumor-mongering. No one is indispensable. Certainly not a person that has run into so much difficulties in so many fora. If you want this site to be a good site, stop chasing potential contributors away with off-putting attacks, and contribute. Ultimately, a forum is what the members make it.

Let's talk facts----- what specifically in THIS THIS THIS - forum did kj do to disparage you????

Let's. It talk other forums because they are NOT at all relevant here!!!!!

Quote: Wizardofnothing

Let's talk facts----- what specifically in THIS THIS THIS - forum did kj do to disparage you????

Let's. It talk other forums because they are NOT at all relevant here!!!!!

You have illustrated my point perfectly. It is KJ's claim that I came here because KJ was making disparaging remarks about me. It is a total fabrication. You still refuse to listen to anyone but him. There is no answer to that question because it is based on a lie and has NOTHING to do with his banishment.

Learn to listen. In the meantime, try to contribute. Make this a better, more inviting place. When this site calms down, I'll contribute. Looks like that will take a very long time. But, I am a patient person. One of my faults.

Good luck to all, I've got work to do.

Wow are you serious?????? This is why people are upset. What reason do you have for contacting Mike about kj. That's what people want to know.

Your reply to me comes across as condescending at best. Me add something? Are you joking me!!!!!!! Work to do???????? It's your cavalier attitude that has everyone here turned against you . Giving answers not twisted replies would be a start instead of spouting about nazis and 9-11 conspiracy Jewish theories