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beachbumbabs
beachbumbabs
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March 3rd, 2016 at 2:18:54 PM permalink
This is a continuation of the overlong Discussion about the Suspension List. That thread has been closed as administratively unmanageable.

The Suspension List is found here.
Last edited by: beachbumbabs on Mar 3, 2016
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
EvenBob
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March 3rd, 2016 at 2:27:36 PM permalink
Why not get rid of this ridiculous thread
altogether? All it's done is cause trouble,
how many have been suspended or banned
because if this thread.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
beachbumbabs
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March 3rd, 2016 at 2:39:12 PM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

Why not get rid of this ridiculous thread
altogether? All it's done is cause trouble,
how many have been suspended or banned
because if this thread.



Personally, I'd be glad to see it gone. However, people do get suspended, mostly for comments in another thread. Then THAT thread, whatever it is, gets hijacked or sidetracked about what got said or why did that happen or whatever. So this thread (and the old one) are intended to collect that discussion instead of ruining numerous threads. However, that is the sole purpose of THIS thread, and it, in turn, should be kept at least mostly to that topic.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
Gabes22
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March 3rd, 2016 at 2:44:01 PM permalink
Just a quick sidebar BBB, if that thread was getting unmanageable, I would assume the Election 2016 thread is not far behind?
A flute with no holes is not a flute, a donut with no holes is a danish
CyrusV
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March 3rd, 2016 at 2:45:09 PM permalink
Indicative and insightful when the most popular thread on a gambling forum is about who has been / is suspended.
Wizardofnothing
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March 3rd, 2016 at 2:45:59 PM permalink
My suggestion is that there is no need for discussion about it- the thread should be for mods only simply putting the suspension in witting and what it was for end of story .... The rest is just nonsense
No longer hiring, don’t ask because I won’t hire you either
Gabes22
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March 3rd, 2016 at 2:48:40 PM permalink
I agree there is no need to discuss it, but like BBB said, people will talk when they see a name, especially one as popular here as kewlj and want to discuss it. This allows a thread for that, rather than doing it on the thread that it happened, and on the thread another suspension happened and so on and so forth. It really is a necessary evil
A flute with no holes is not a flute, a donut with no holes is a danish
GWAE
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March 3rd, 2016 at 2:58:07 PM permalink
Bbb, you should edit your original post to add a link to the suspension list itself.

(Edit: Good idea, thanks. Done. BBB)
Last edited by: beachbumbabs on Mar 3, 2016
Expect the worst and you will never be disappointed. I AM NOT PART OF GWAE RADIO SHOW
EvenBob
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March 3rd, 2016 at 3:01:47 PM permalink
Quote: Gabes22

I agree there is no need to discuss it



There isn't. Make a rule that no discussion
of suspensions are allowed. That would
be great.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
Wizard
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March 3rd, 2016 at 3:19:13 PM permalink
Before this thread existed there were complaints about every suspension all over the forum. I wanted to consolidate the complaining into one sty where those who liked it could frolic in the mud and those who didn't could easily avoid it.

I know 99.54% of my decisions here get questioned, but creating the original discussion of the suspension list thread I think was one of my better ones.

To those who don't like it, let me make a radical suggestion -- don't read it.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
rxwine
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March 3rd, 2016 at 3:29:55 PM permalink
Dang, I missed posting "FIRST!'

ya know, something useful.
There's no secret. Just know what you're talking about before you open your mouth.
odiousgambit
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March 3rd, 2016 at 3:34:33 PM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs

Personally, I'd be glad to see it gone. However, people do get suspended, mostly for comments in another thread. Then THAT thread, whatever it is, gets hijacked or sidetracked about what got said or why did that happen or whatever. So this thread (and the old one) are intended to collect that discussion instead of ruining numerous threads. However, that is the sole purpose of THIS thread, and it, in turn, should be kept at least mostly to that topic.



my head just exploded.



HOWEVER that may be because I just blocked the other thread.
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!”   She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
beachbumbabs
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March 3rd, 2016 at 3:50:10 PM permalink
Quote: Gabes22

Just a quick sidebar BBB, if that thread was getting unmanageable, I would assume the Election 2016 thread is not far behind?



Yeah, Gabes, it's not far behind, but for whatever reason that particular thread stays almost entirely within the topic (though it has a lot of facets), so it hasn't needed splitting off. If I could have split off the Baccarat sidebar and a couple other things, I would have left the Disc/Susp/List alone and just kept it cleaned out, but the last several times I've tried to do it, it was unwieldy and crash-prone. The fresh thread was overdue by about 6 months; I just didn't want to mess with it while things were a bit crazy before.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
Ibeatyouraces
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March 3rd, 2016 at 3:53:56 PM permalink
Who's to say it won't happen in this thread also?
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
rainman
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March 3rd, 2016 at 4:01:47 PM permalink
Quote: Ibeatyouraces

Who's to say it won't happen in this thread also?



It will happen here, humans are here.
beachbumbabs
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March 3rd, 2016 at 4:03:14 PM permalink
Quote: Ibeatyouraces

Who's to say it won't happen in this thread also?



I'm almost certain it will. But the admin manipulation of a thread can only be done after every single post has been loaded in that thread; normal reading, you only see one page at a time, and the unspooling of future pages can happen while you're reading the first page you've missed. That thread was what, 800 pages or so, and each individual post has a macro attached that makes it selectable from the rest. This thread will survive splitting for several hundred posts if necessary before it starts to bog significantly.

And then we'll do it again... :)
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
RonC
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March 3rd, 2016 at 4:03:49 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Before this thread existed there were complaints about every suspension all over the forum. I wanted to consolidate the complaining into one sty where those who liked it could frolic in the mud and those who didn't could easily avoid it.

I know 99.54% of my decisions here get questioned, but creating the original discussion of the suspension list thread I think was one of my better ones.

To those who don't like it, let me make a radical suggestion -- don't read it.



If you want to discuss suspensions, there is a place for it.

If not, ignore it...that's the silly thing...people complaining about threads they don't like and then coming back around to complain some more...when they could just ignore it after one complaint...
TwoFeathersATL
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March 3rd, 2016 at 6:02:46 PM permalink
Damnation, the new thread went wild, who got suspended this time, and why?
That wasn't what we were talking about? Oops ;-!
Just 2F

Oh! Maybe we need a place to talk about the discussion, maybe separate from where we actually have the discussion ;-) Anyone up for another thread about the thread?
Youuuuuu MIGHT be a 'rascal' if.......(nevermind ;-)...2F
chickenman
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March 4th, 2016 at 4:22:58 AM permalink
Excellent
Romes
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March 4th, 2016 at 7:27:58 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

...I know 99.54% of my decisions here get questioned, but...

Still sounds like a pretty good game! =P
Playing it correctly means you've already won.
AxelWolf
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March 4th, 2016 at 8:42:43 AM permalink
Quote: Romes

Still sounds like a pretty good game! =P

It's sad that VP has gotten so bad that 99.54 is thought of as a good game.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
Mission146
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March 4th, 2016 at 1:37:45 PM permalink
Quote: CyrusV

Indicative and insightful when the most popular thread on a gambling forum is about who has been / is suspended.



The only thing it indicates it is a thread that has been active throughout the lifetime of this Forum. If I combined all of the Craps system threads into one thread, for instance, that would probably be longer.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
Mission146
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March 4th, 2016 at 1:39:54 PM permalink
Quote: Gabes22

I agree there is no need to discuss it, but like BBB said, people will talk when they see a name, especially one as popular here as kewlj and want to discuss it. This allows a thread for that, rather than doing it on the thread that it happened, and on the thread another suspension happened and so on and so forth. It really is a necessary evil



Exactly, it exists so Discussion about Suspensions do not derail threads otherwise related to a different topic more than absolutely necessary.

In response to a later comment, I personally do not think it is right to disallow any Discussion about Suspensions. We might not always agree with individual Members, and sometimes we don't even agree with a plurality of Members regarding certain decisions, but we definitely want them to be heard.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
TwoFeathersATL
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March 7th, 2016 at 4:18:46 PM permalink
Terrapined just got suspended for three days for 'personal insult' against me.
Not good.
I baited him, did it on purpose with 10 seconds of premeditation.
Not good.
I would like to serve his sentence, put him back online, while I take a break.
My next break is supposed to be 7 days, that's fine with me.
I would rather read Terrapined's contributions for the next seven days than expose the forums to mine.
Not a joke, not this time. Now I'm serious, now I'm not happy. Two Feathers.
Youuuuuu MIGHT be a 'rascal' if.......(nevermind ;-)...2F
AxelWolf
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March 7th, 2016 at 4:34:57 PM permalink
Quote: TwoFeathersATL

Terrapined just got suspended for three days for 'personal insult' against me.
Not good.
I baited him, did it on purpose with 10 seconds of premeditation.
Not good.
I would like to serve his sentence, put him back online, while I take a break.
My next break is supposed to be 7 days, that's fine with me.
I would rather read Terrapined's contributions for the next seven days than expose the forums to mine.
Not a joke, not this time. Now I'm serious, now I'm not happy. Two Feathers.

I thought after I first did that and then another person Mike insinuated he wasn't going to make a habit of it. Perhaps he meant people who were not actually involved in whatever lead to the suspension couldn't just start serving time for whomever. .
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
Wizard
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March 7th, 2016 at 4:38:41 PM permalink
Quote: TwoFeathersATL

Terrapined just got suspended for three days for 'personal insult' against me.
Not good.
I baited him, did it on purpose with 10 seconds of premeditation.
Not good.
I would like to serve his sentence, put him back online, while I take a break.
My next break is supposed to be 7 days, that's fine with me.
I would rather read Terrapined's contributions for the next seven days than expose the forums to mine.
Not a joke, not this time. Now I'm serious, now I'm not happy. Two Feathers.



I will accept this. Thank you for owning your involvement in it.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
MichaelBluejay
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March 7th, 2016 at 8:40:46 PM permalink
What if suspensions were done quietly, without them being announced to the whole forum?
Presidential Election polls and odds: https://2605.me/p
Wizard
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March 7th, 2016 at 9:26:05 PM permalink
Quote: MichaelBluejay

What if suspensions were done quietly, without them being announced to the whole forum?



Then we would be missing out on the public shaming.

"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
RS
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March 7th, 2016 at 9:39:00 PM permalink
Quote: MichaelBluejay

What if suspensions were done quietly, without them being announced to the whole forum?



Then all the nonsense 1BB was always complaining about would not have been as funny. That would have been depriving this whole forum of 99.17% of 1BB's hilarious/psychotic Fanta.

EDIT: rants* not Fanta. Darn phone!
MichaelBluejay
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March 7th, 2016 at 10:34:08 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Then we would be missing out on the public shaming.

Yeah, that's the idea. Public shaming for forum infractions feels awkward to me, like it's grade school or something. It also makes the forum feel policed, even if the police action is completely justified. Suspending members quietly and privately would allow them to save some face and not make the rank-and-file members (the overwhelming majority of whom aren't subject to punishments) constantly feel that someone is watching over what they say.

I know it's not my forum, just throwing the idea out there.
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EvenBob
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March 7th, 2016 at 11:19:05 PM permalink
Quote: MichaelBluejay

Yeah, that's the idea. Public shaming for forum infractions feels awkward to me, like it's grade school or something. It also makes the forum feel policed, even if the police action is completely justified. Suspending members quietly and privately would allow them to save some face and not make the rank-and-file members (the overwhelming majority of whom aren't subject to punishments) constantly feel that someone is watching over what they say..



Ah, a secret police idea. Take people away
and punish them without anybody knowing
about it. An old and very effective idea used
with great success in totalitarian states
such as Germany in the WWII era, and
later in the Soviet Union.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
rdw4potus
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March 8th, 2016 at 6:25:03 AM permalink
Quote: RS

Then all the nonsense 1BB was always complaining about would not have been as funny. That would have been depriving this whole forum of 99.17% of 1BB's hilarious/psychotic Fanta.

EDIT: rants* not Fanta. Darn phone!





Psychotic Fanta indeed:-)
"So as the clock ticked and the day passed, opportunity met preparation, and luck happened." - Maurice Clarett
Gabes22
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March 8th, 2016 at 6:27:27 AM permalink
This would work in two ways.
1) The name would be in red so the people will know anyway
2) If it is a valued member there would be gossip about what or how it happened
3) If it's a newb people won't notice
A flute with no holes is not a flute, a donut with no holes is a danish
Wizard
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March 8th, 2016 at 7:01:27 AM permalink
Quote: MichaelBluejay

Yeah, that's the idea. Public shaming for forum infractions feels awkward to me, like it's grade school or something. It also makes the forum feel policed, even if the police action is completely justified. Suspending members quietly and privately would allow them to save some face and not make the rank-and-file members (the overwhelming majority of whom aren't subject to punishments) constantly feel that someone is watching over what they say.



Quote: Gabes22

This would work in two ways.
1) The name would be in red so the people will know anyway
2) If it is a valued member there would be gossip about what or how it happened
3) If it's a newb people won't notice



First, the forum is supposed to feel policed.

Second, we didn't have a suspension list for the first year or so. What happened is exactly what Gabes wrote, there was all kinds of gossip all over the forum about who was suspended and for what reason. So I created the Suspension List for two reasons:

1. So the mods would have a record of past suspensions, to keep track of habitual offenders.
2. To end the gossip and have a public record of who was being suspended for what and for how long.

I didn't expect this list to get so much attention but it did. There was so much discussion about every new suspension that I created the "discussion" thread to keep it all in one place.

If public shaming smacks of grade school, then so be it. I personally favor public shaming for real crimes.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
RonC
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March 8th, 2016 at 7:17:28 AM permalink
I dislike the idea of private suspensions with no information. This discussion of suspensions has had a benefit or two...I was once suspended for something someone else said. While being suspended here is not the biggest thing in the world, it does keep you from being part of the discussion here. Someone noticed that I was wrongly suspended based on the reason provided for the suspension, and the Court of Appeals overturned the suspension and allowed me to "bank" a free day. Not sure if I used it yet or not.

Anyway, I like the way we do it.
MichaelBluejay
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March 8th, 2016 at 7:37:14 AM permalink
Okay, fair enough. I guess any way of handling things has its pros and cons, and this one is as good as any.
Presidential Election polls and odds: https://2605.me/p
MrV
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March 8th, 2016 at 8:28:22 AM permalink
Oh no, not the hamster!

Time out for you; bad kitty!

Shame!

"What, me worry?"
Paigowdan
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March 8th, 2016 at 8:48:16 AM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

Ah, a secret police idea. Take people away
and punish them without anybody knowing
about it. An old and very effective idea used
with great success in totalitarian states
such as Germany in the WWII era, and
later in the Soviet Union.



I guess being deprived of chiming in here because of hostile character assassinations would be some sort of egregious violation of the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, eh? Or is it to be deprived of public floggings? (approaching Godwin's law here...)

Call it discreet police instead of secret police in this case.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
GWAE
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March 8th, 2016 at 1:12:11 PM permalink
Quote: MrV

Oh no, not the hamster!

Time out for you; bad kitty!

Shame!



Why did this make me chuckle. It is not funny. Still laughing damn it.
Expect the worst and you will never be disappointed. I AM NOT PART OF GWAE RADIO SHOW
MrV
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March 8th, 2016 at 1:14:50 PM permalink
Quote: GWAE

[Why did this make me chuckle. It is not funny. Still laughing damn it.



Much like Las Vegas itself, it helps underscore the fundamental absurdity of the human condition.
"What, me worry?"
mcallister3200
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March 8th, 2016 at 1:38:40 PM permalink
Ibeatyouraces
DrawingDead
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March 8th, 2016 at 3:19:09 PM permalink
I'd guess some would indeed feel some embarrassment about their online gambling discussion forum pseudonym being suspended; and I'd also suspect those who would feel that way the most are not those who are most likely to be doing that. Meantime, some others may be pleased to be even more at the center of attention while folks in the virtual trailer park chatter more all about them and their suspension. For some people negative attention is a fine thing to have; it affirms their great importance as the center of the universe which all lesser objects orbit around. And in the fevered imagination of some others they may even have become great brave martyrs to something or other, reborn as the spiritual offspring of a mating of Ghandi and Joan of Arc. Then, there are those who are obviously so blotto and chronically damaged on this or that they don't even have a coherent grasp of any of it from one time to the next.

But what would be the reaction(s - plural?) of the hyperactive nutbars with multiple virtual identities? Can one of their identities feel badly about being suspended in the course of a supposed 'fight' with one of the other identities created by the very same fingers tapping through a different identity? I can think of at least one very active member here who has made it pretty clear he actually does think that's a perfectly sane, clever, and fun sort of thing to be doing.

I'm not saying this with any intention of advocating for or against doing or not doing something differently to cure this, that, or the other thing. It just is what it is, and I just think one needs to be realistic about what happens, why, and who, and how little anyone on a forum can ever really expect to have anything to do with correcting the source of it. I think it is sometimes likely to involve something they've been doing in many ways in many places for a very long time, and always will, as some continue playing out their own little internal dramas on an endless loop.
Last edited by: DrawingDead on Mar 8, 2016
Suck dope, watch TV, make up stuff, be somebody on the internet.
Ibeatyouraces
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March 8th, 2016 at 3:43:09 PM permalink
Quote: mcallister3200

Ibeatyouraces




DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
MichaelBluejay
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March 8th, 2016 at 6:38:10 PM permalink
I withdraw my private suspension idea.
Presidential Election polls and odds: https://2605.me/p
AxelWolf
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March 8th, 2016 at 11:15:05 PM permalink
Quote: MichaelBluejay

I withdraw my private suspension idea.

Just delete all your posts regarding this like others do when they are wrong.(didn't your buddy Bob do this?)

*Not saying you're wrong.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
EvenBob
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March 9th, 2016 at 1:04:31 AM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

Just delete all your posts regarding this like others do when they are wrong.(didn't your buddy Bob do this?)



OOPS! Can't edit posts anymore after the short
time period expires. Please do try and keep up,
newbie..
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
RS
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March 9th, 2016 at 1:14:36 AM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

OOPS! Can't edit posts anymore after the short
time period expires. Please do try and keep up,
newbie..



Mhmmm. Keep thinkin' that.
AxelWolf
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March 9th, 2016 at 2:18:14 AM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

OOPS! Can't edit posts anymore after the short
time period expires. Please do try and keep up,
newbie..

Oh ya, I wouldn't know I don't think I tried to delete one. Can't you just edit it down to saying deleted?
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
beachbumbabs
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March 9th, 2016 at 4:22:45 AM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

Oh ya, I wouldn't know I don't think I tried to delete one. Can't you just edit it down to saying deleted?



Actually, no. At least not the newer ones. :)
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
RS
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March 9th, 2016 at 11:11:42 AM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs

Actually, no. At least not the newer ones. :)



This has to be the weirded forum I've ever been on. So if an admin changes a rule in the ACP, like changes how long you have to edit, it only applies to posts made then on, but not before?
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