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QFIT
QFIT
Joined: Feb 12, 2010
  • Threads: 1
  • Posts: 307
March 15th, 2016 at 12:04:05 PM permalink
I’ve been reading these posts for the last few hours nodding my head at all the speculation. Those that know me well know that I dislike speculation, particularly when it comes to another’s motivations. Let me clarify a few points:

1. I have never asked Mike to suspend anyone, and was quite surprised when this happened.
2. I have never asked Mike to nuke anyone.
3. I have never used the PM function here.
4. I did ask Mike to remove posts which contained personal attacks against multiple people falsely accusing them of having an agenda to purposely mislead new players for profit. These posts have been made by one person on four sites scores of times for, now, seven months.
5. The statement that I pulled some "we're both site owners and have done some work together in the past; do me a solid" is quite ridiculous.
6. I responded to RS on BJTF to a post he made here because I was suspended here and could not respond directly. I removed the thread once the discussion was done because of a complaint by Romes.
7. The word “feud” suggests acts of revenge. I am not taking part in a feud. OTOH, the other party posted elsewhere, and e-mailed me, that he will be continuing this: “for the next 50 years. Long after Norman is dead and gone”
8. My only “agenda” here was to stop what appeared to be attempts to start a forum war.
9. I made posts on BJTF, BJ21, and WoV pointing to a new, free and ad-free resource for which I get no income. It should help CBJN, which coincidentally was just purchased by the owner of this site. For some reason, I was attacked three times when posting it here. I now know better and will no longer post info on free resources here.

I have been saying for over a decade that the casinos are the opponent. It is important that we keep this in mind. Attacking each other only helps the casinos.
"It is impossible to begin to learn that which one thinks one already knows." -Epictetus
Romes
Romes
Joined: Jul 22, 2014
  • Threads: 27
  • Posts: 5490
March 15th, 2016 at 12:24:53 PM permalink
I never had a complaint to remove the thread. My complaint was that I personally felt on your site anyone who posts on there that doesn't endorse the "level 3 count or you're not a real counter" mentality is attacked by 3 prominent members. As if a level 3 count is the most lucrative form of AP'ing anyways these 3 continue to argue over and bashing newbies or even advanced players/professionals (myself/kewlj) for referring new players to a level 1. These were the same 3 that I believed did the same thing to KewlJ and what, at least from my opinion/information I've gathered, lead to the "bad blood" between them/him/you. The only other complaint you could say I had was the complaint that you were attacking KewlJ after banning him, thus he couldn't even respond, which I found childish and needling. The thread was already closed, but then you moved it to a "private" section and some time after that removed it.

Are you stating you did not message Mike 19 times about the situation? I have it on good authority that you did... and unfortunately we're not allowed to discuss PM's so we're left to well, speculate, what was discussed. Logically we'll have to go off past experiences and behaviors (such as the RollingStoned thread), which would lead me to believe those 19 messages were demeaning towards kewlj on some level... and if KewlJ was nuked for "private messages" that were demeaning, I would expect the same be held for anyone, regardless of anything else.

Norm, for the record, I have absolutely zero personal qualms with you. Both you and KewlJ have this ability to get under each others skin to the point where neither of you act respectable anymore. I, like many others, tried to ignore it for some time, but when it's drug out over multiple forums and repeatedly beaten like a dead horse then eventually you're going to have people say "Fine, you want my opinion? Here it is..." which I suppose is more of what I'm doing now. Do I think you're to blame? Yes. Do I think KewlJ is to blame? Yes. You both push each others buttons and do so much against one another that there is no one right/wrong person at this point, in my opinion. Thus, you should both be banned from WoV if KewlJ is to be banned. Your content, if you're concerned with that, will of course be spread to multiple forums after release on your site, and if you truly are "for the players" and want to be "the bigger man" then you won't care whatsoever if it gets re-posted on multiple other sites like we all know it will. Problem solved.
Playing it correctly means you've already won.
QFIT
QFIT
Joined: Feb 12, 2010
  • Threads: 1
  • Posts: 307
March 15th, 2016 at 12:49:20 PM permalink
Forgive me Romes, but I think you have this backwards. I was under suspension here when RS made a post with several statements asking me questions. Unable to respond here, I responded on BJTF where he is a frequent poster. It was I that was under attack while under suspension. My response was:

“I don't understand why you made a long post asking me questions on a forum where I cannot respond. Needless to say, I disagree with everything you stated. The question you asked is an example of a logical fallacy called a loaded question as the phrasing includes a false premise. It's like asking, ‘When did you stop beating your wife’.”

Your statement that anyone on BJTF that doesn't endorse the "level 3 count or you're not a real counter mentality is attacked by 3 prominent members” is patently absurd. I have NEVER endorsed a level 3 count in my life for anyone. I usually suggest KO or HiLo and have even suggested basic strategy for casual players. Indeed I have an article on that. It is these gross exaggerations that keep stirring the pot. There are, of course, opinions stated with which I don't agree. I do not censor opinions. I censor personal attacks. What good is a discussion forum where everyone thinks alike?

In case this wasn’t clear in my previous post,

1. I have never asked Mike to suspend anyone, and was quite surprised when this happened.
2. I have never asked Mike to nuke anyone.
3. I have never used the PM function here.

I’m really getting tired of people repeating outright fabrications and rank speculation. I know people here have been inundated for months with the same false narrative, and you speak of it as if it is all true. It isn't. For more detail, reread my last post.
"It is impossible to begin to learn that which one thinks one already knows." -Epictetus
TwoFeathersATL
TwoFeathersATL
Joined: May 22, 2013
  • Threads: 37
  • Posts: 3616
March 15th, 2016 at 12:58:09 PM permalink
Fubar, I will try again.
Youuuuuu MIGHT be a 'rascal' if.......(nevermind ;-)...2F
TwoFeathersATL
TwoFeathersATL
Joined: May 22, 2013
  • Threads: 37
  • Posts: 3616
March 15th, 2016 at 1:08:22 PM permalink
Quote: QFIT

Forgive me Romes, but I think you have this backwards. I was under suspension here when RS made a post with several statements asking me questions. Unable to respond here, I responded on BJTF where he is a frequent poster. It was I that was under attack while under suspension. My response was:

“I don't understand why you made a long post asking me questions on a forum where I cannot respond. Needless to say, I disagree with everything you stated. The question you asked is an example of a logical fallacy called a loaded question as the phrasing includes a false premise. It's like asking, ‘When did you stop beating your wife’.”

Your statement that anyone on BJTF that doesn't endorse the "level 3 count or you're not a real counter mentality is attacked by 3 prominent members” is patently absurd. I have NEVER endorsed a level 3 count in my life for anyone. I usually suggest KO or HiLo and have even suggested basic strategy for casual players. Indeed I have an article on that. It is these gross exaggerations that keep stirring the pot. There are, of course, opinions stated with which I don't agree. I do not censor opinions. I censor personal attacks. What good is a discussion forum where everyone thinks alike?

In case this wasn’t clear in my previous post,

1. I have never asked Mike to suspend anyone, and was quite surprised when this happened.
2. I have never asked Mike to nuke anyone.
3. I have never used the PM function here.

I’m really getting tired of people repeating outright fabrications and rank speculation. I know people here have been inundated for months with the same false narrative, and you speak of it as if it is all true. It isn't. For more detail, reread my last post.

You still post here, And that is a good thing.
KJ apparently cannot post here any longer, and that is a bad thing, a bad thing that outweighs your good thing. Just IMO, just 2F. You don't like it, talk to the boss.
Youuuuuu MIGHT be a 'rascal' if.......(nevermind ;-)...2F
QFIT
QFIT
Joined: Feb 12, 2010
  • Threads: 1
  • Posts: 307
March 15th, 2016 at 1:10:20 PM permalink
Quote: TwoFeathersATL

You still post here, And that is a good thing.
KJ apparently cannot post here any longer, and that is a bad thing, a bad thing that outweighs your good thing. Just IMO, just 2F. You don't like it, talk to the boss.



What's to talk about? People are entitled to their own opinions. They are not entitled to their own facts.
"It is impossible to begin to learn that which one thinks one already knows." -Epictetus
HowMany
HowMany
Joined: Mar 22, 2013
  • Threads: 13
  • Posts: 482
March 15th, 2016 at 1:27:15 PM permalink
Let's examine this for a moment:

KJ gone. Forever.

1BB gone. Forever.

Norm still here.

Yep. I'm outta here. Go ahead and nuke me Wizard. Farewell.
TwoFeathersATL
TwoFeathersATL
Joined: May 22, 2013
  • Threads: 37
  • Posts: 3616
March 15th, 2016 at 1:28:38 PM permalink
Quote: QFIT

What's to talk about? People are entitled to their own opinions. They are not entitled to their own facts.

I believe that I had my facts correct in my post, I have reviewed them and I find no errors. Feel free to point out where I went astray. You still get to post here.
Youuuuuu MIGHT be a 'rascal' if.......(nevermind ;-)...2F
beachbumbabs
Administrator
beachbumbabs
Joined: May 21, 2013
  • Threads: 99
  • Posts: 14229
March 15th, 2016 at 1:35:59 PM permalink
Quote: QFIT

I’ve been reading these posts for the last few hours nodding my head at all the speculation. Those that know me well know that I dislike speculation, particularly when it comes to another’s motivations. Let me clarify a few points:

1. I have never asked Mike to suspend anyone, and was quite surprised when this happened.
2. I have never asked Mike to nuke anyone.
3. I have never used the PM function here.
4. I did ask Mike to remove posts which contained personal attacks against multiple people falsely accusing them of having an agenda to purposely mislead new players for profit. These posts have been made by one person on four sites scores of times for, now, seven months.
5. The statement that I pulled some "we're both site owners and have done some work together in the past; do me a solid" is quite ridiculous.
6. I responded to RS on BJTF to a post he made here because I was suspended here and could not respond directly. I removed the thread once the discussion was done because of a complaint by Romes.
7. The word “feud” suggests acts of revenge. I am not taking part in a feud. OTOH, the other party posted elsewhere, and e-mailed me, that he will be continuing this: “for the next 50 years. Long after Norman is dead and gone”
8. My only “agenda” here was to stop what appeared to be attempts to start a forum war.
9. I made posts on BJTF, BJ21, and WoV pointing to a new, free and ad-free resource for which I get no income. It should help CBJN, which coincidentally was just purchased by the owner of this site. For some reason, I was attacked three times when posting it here. I now know better and will no longer post info on free resources here.

I have been saying for over a decade that the casinos are the opponent. It is important that we keep this in mind. Attacking each other only helps the casinos.



How is this lengthy and defensive post not a violation of whatever truce was negotiated? Not to mention you asking Mike to censor criticism of your forum or particular members, NONE of which were personal attacks, whatever your perception might have been.

Kj has been silenced on your behalf and this forum is the poorer for it. The least you could do is not continue to bring your complaints here. Just because he's gone doesn't mean the trashing continues.

And no, this did not start with your offering a tool, as someone said above. It's been going on for a couple months now. Just as it means nothing for you to say the last about the casinos after all the rest. You did this, started this war. It couldn't be an honest discussion of different approaches by different - skilled players. Not when you're involved, claiming everything is an attack and it's all personal.

Very unimpressed with your methods, and very disappointed in your double standards. Including your post after the one above. Please, do get me censored despite the lack of any personal attacks in this post, because I'm sure you'll be greatly offended, given your record here so far. Please continue to corrode the free speech standards and open discourse we hold dear by leveraging your friend Mike still further. And please continue to threaten the forum with the withdrawal of your "freely offered" tools.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
Joined: Oct 10, 2012
  • Threads: 146
  • Posts: 18249
March 15th, 2016 at 1:36:12 PM permalink
death faking???
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪

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