Coronavirus math
Quote: gordonm888Here's some statistics
The federal government has a $100 billion fund that reimburses Covid-19 health costs by
- paying an additional 20% on top of traditional Medicare rates for COVID-19 patients during the public health emergency,
- and by reimbursing hospitals for treating the uninsured patients with the disease (at that enhanced Medicare rate).
Sure, there are cases where obese Aunt Becky gets covid, checks into a hospital and dies 10 days later.
But each month there are over 100,000 people dying from other non-covid medical conditions.
Given that hospitals gain money (+20%) for each covid death, doesn't it seem likely that some of the 100,000+/month dying patients are being labeled as 'suspected covid due to exposure history" and Covid-19 is being written on their death certificate, along with the real causes of death ?
Heck you could take the homeless person who is about to die from lung failure, and park their gurney next to a covid patient for 15 minutes, and then legitimately claim that he is suspected of having covid. Ka-ching! goes the cash register.
Can anyone claim that they are sure that this hasn't happened? That it isn't continuing to happen to some extent?
I'll let Gordons post be my response.
Quote: billryanBy the way, how is calling me a rulebreaker not an insult?
You have previously (past few months) been suspended for insulting me. You have returned from another suspension in the past few weeks for insulting another forum member. And you have once again responded to one of my posts by demonizing me and associating me with statements that I have not made. I object to it. Benjamin Franklin said "No idea is so dangerous that it cannot be discussed." The idea of financial incentives for claiming Covid as a cause of death is an idea that we are permitted to discuss. You are allowed to respond with counter-arguments but you are not allowed to use your tactic of falsely claiming I said something outrageous as a way to make me look irresponsible.
I invite you to not respond to this post. But in any case, I insist that you stop attacking me personally.
Quote: gordonm888Benjamin Franklin said "No idea is so dangerous that it cannot be discussed."
Benjamin Franklin probably would have been suspended on this forum too
Dudes, sometimes I'm trying to eat dinner!
Early on those tests were $19,000 a piece. I don't know what the bills are for different tests and who is paying for them now.
Just heard there's an opening on the Supreme Court. RIP RBG
so what’s the latest? 1 to 1.1?Quote: darkozThat's hardly a whopper. It's occurred a few times.
Here is one instance they traced over 100 people infected by just one person
https://www.pix11.com/news/coronavirus/it-only-takes-one-person-multiple-people-infected-with-coronavirus-after-suffolk-county-party
Unless you plan now on arguing contact tracing has no science behind it either
Quote: DeMangoso what’s the latest? 1 to 1.1?
What's the latest where?
It varies by region and times.
NYS had one of the highest rates of transmission and now through stringent social distancing and mask wearing and shutdowns has one of the countries lowest rate of transmission
Quote: DeMangoNew York is how not to run a state, city. Folks leaving in droves.
When you got 9 million people in just the city alone droves better be a few million.
Otherwise it doesn't matter
Guaranteed a million people haven't left the city
Damn subways are still crowded.
As for the rest of the state those are rural areas. Who gives a damn
Quote: DeMangoYou haven't been reading the Post. A lot of money has moved out of city, state. That better for ya? So the solution is to raise tax rates on top earners. That should work.
That's right. I don't read the Post. To get true news I read Daily News or the Times.
The Post lies too often
Quote: darkoz
As for the rest of the state those are rural areas. Who gives a damn
Yeah. Buffalo, Rochester, Syracuse, White Plains, all just farms, eh?
All far better to live in. Split it off at the Tappan Zee and quit sending upstate money to the city already!
NYC is emptying out, and for good reasons. Virus is just the breaking point for many people.
Got that one wrong. The flow of funds is from NYC to upstate, buy a huge amount.Quote: AZDuffmanSplit it off at the Tappan Zee and quit sending upstate money to the city already!
No it isn't.Quote: AZDuffmanNYC is emptying out...
Quote: UP84Got that one wrong. The flow of funds is from NYC to upstate, buy a huge amount.
To Albany in the form of state employees yes. The rest not so much.
No it isn't.
Even the NYT is reporting people leaving. New Yorkers Are Fleeing to the Suburbs: ‘The Demand Is Insane’
Quality of life in NYC is returning to what it was in the 1970s. That was some of the worst living in USA history.
Yes it is. The revenue flow is from downstate to upstate.Quote: AZDuffmanTo Albany in the form of state employees yes. The rest not so much.
No it isn't.
A few boring middle class white people who can't hack it in the big city looking at houses in a NYC suburb is hardly an emptying out. NYC is nowhere near where it was in the 70's, or the early 90's for that matter.Quote: AZDuffmanEven the NYT is reporting people leaving. New Yorkers Are Fleeing to the Suburbs: ‘The Demand Is Insane’
Quality of life in NYC is returning to what it was in the 1970s.That was some of the worst living in USA history.
Quote: UP84Yes it is. The revenue flow is from downstate to upstate.
A few boring middle class white people who can't hack it in the big city looking at houses in a NYC suburb is hardly an emptying out. NYC is nowhere near where it was in the 70's, or the early 90's for that matter.Quote: AZDuffmanEven the NYT is reporting people leaving. New Yorkers Are Fleeing to the Suburbs: ‘The Demand Is Insane’
Quality of life in NYC is returning to what it was in the 1970s.That was some of the worst living in USA history.
What is "not hacking city life?" Not wanting to live around more and more crime?
The 70s are on the way to NYC. It is easy to see it coming.
Quote: AZDuffmanYeah. Buffalo, Rochester, Syracuse, White Plains, all just farms, eh?
All far better to live in. Split it off at the Tappan Zee and quit sending upstate money to the city already!
NYC is emptying out, and for good reasons. Virus is just the breaking point for many people.
You have that backward. NYC sends money to the rest of the state. Take NYC out of the equation and New York State would have a GDP similar to Iowa.
Quote: AZDuffmanQuote: UP84Yes it is. The revenue flow is from downstate to upstate.
A few boring middle class white people who can't hack it in the big city looking at houses in a NYC suburb is hardly an emptying out. NYC is nowhere near where it was in the 70's, or the early 90's for that matter.Quote: AZDuffmanEven the NYT is reporting people leaving. New Yorkers Are Fleeing to the Suburbs: ‘The Demand Is Insane’
Quality of life in NYC is returning to what it was in the 1970s.That was some of the worst living in USA history.
Actually NYC is going through gentrification.
More and more minorities are leaving while whites move in. Look it up.
NYC has always been a "flow" city. People come and go. Large amounts move in while large amounts move out.
I understand small hick towns, rural America are used to people staying on their land for generations and inbreeding, etc but NYC and most cities in general have "flow" going both ways
Apartments are never easy to find in the city. When they do become easy there will be a sudden rush to grab the suddenly available options.
Their will always be flow in and flow out.
Non-city city-hating folk like to fantasize the city is losing their population but that's alll that is.
Perhaps with the city going through this pandemic (Broadway still shutdown for example) there is a temporary migration. They will return once the opportunity is there
Finally, crime is nowhere near what it was in the seventies and I lived through it.
But even if it did to postulate"who wants to live with crime" doesn't compute. There was no sudden shortage of people in the seventies crime wave, right? Why would there be now?
Asking who wants to live through crime is same as asking who wants to live through earthquake and forest fires. Who wants to live through hurricanes five times a year? Who wants to live through tornado popping up so fast the dinner bell hasn't even rung?
People just don't move because of surrounding factors. In fact they usually are pretty stubborn
What makes it interesting is that some news sources imply these things without ever baldly going to the numbers, because the numbers would blow the myths out of the water. So there is this continual subtext that urban centers drain the non-urban of money, and it goes so unchallenged that people lean on it for some kind of political and psychological comfort. Maybe the idea of less-white places paying the tab for more-white is so anathema that folks refuse to look too closely at the myths.
But it's the upstates draining the downstates, and the Kentucky's and Missouri's draining the California's.
As for reading the Post, c'mon, man. That's one step above, no, make that one step sideways (considering the National Enquirer journalism nominations and Pulitzer), from the National Enquirer. I used to read the Post to keep up with rumors regarding a certain New York real estate developer in the 80's. The Post had some wicked headlines back then, like GREED in apocalyptic caps after a La Cosa dispute and a photo of a dead body and PLOT TO STEAL PRESLEY'S BODY as front page priorities.
NYC is a city of immigrants so, in a time when the federal government is cracking down on immigrants of all types, it makes sense NY would lose some population.
I get asked stupid questions about NYC all the time. Last week someone asked me if Macy's was going to rebuild after it was burned down.
By the way, after years of giving far more to DC than it got back, California in the last two years has gotten so much disaster relief that it may join thirty nine other states in taking more than it gives.
Quote: billryanYou have that backward. NYC sends money to the rest of the state. Take NYC out of the equation and New York State would have a GDP similar to Iowa.
Like I said, take out Albany state worker salaries and not so much. Upstate would do much better without NYC.
Quote: AZDuffmanLike I said, take out Albany state worker salaries and not so much. Upstate would do much better without NYC.
Provide links to prove your position.
(Far right leaning links will not be accepted)
It is not possible to do so, but if Long Island, NYC and Westchester broke away and formed a new state, it would be the richest state in the Union and the remainder of NY State would be another Alabama.
If Las Vegas were to close, the arid desert dwellers would finally be able to live to their economic advantage
The entire bottled water source from desert wells should no longer be used to financially support the city of Las Vegas
Quote: darkozProvide links to prove your position.
(Far right leaning links will not be accepted)
Look it up yourself if you like. I lived in the state for years. Upstate would be far better off away from NYC.
Quote: AZDuffmanLook it up yourself if you like. I lived in the state for years. Upstate would be far better off away from NYC.
How can you argue with logic like that? I mean, he lived there.
Quote: AZDuffmanLook it up yourself if you like. I lived in the state for years. Upstate would be far better off away from NYC.
Ok.
You're wrong
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.syracuse.com/politics/2019/03/5-reasons-why-splitting-new-york-would-be-a-disaster-for-upstate.html%3foutputType=amp
And you're wrong
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2018/feb/01/robert-mujica/do-downstate-ny-residents-contribute-more-income-t/
Quote: darkozOk.
You're wrong
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.syracuse.com/politics/2019/03/5-reasons-why-splitting-new-york-would-be-a-disaster-for-upstate.html%3foutputType=amp
And you're wrong
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2018/feb/01/robert-mujica/do-downstate-ny-residents-contribute-more-income-t/
I will say it again, take out state workers in Albany and this is all far less true. That is the 4 county Albany area. The rest of upstate does not get this benefit. But they do have to help support the prisons filled with downstate criminals. Taxes would be lower if not for downstate voters favoring big spending. Split in 2 everyone would be happier. And upstate richer.
Quote: AZDuffmanBut they do have to help support the prisons filled with downstate criminals.
Quote:How County Jails
Extract Wealth from
New York Communities
https://static1.squarespace.com/static/58e127cb1b10e31ed45b20f4/t/5dfb11f1d92add1f0092b4df/1576735788585/Paying-For-Jail-NY
I might be interpreting this wrong, but looks like opposite-ville to me.
As things stand, Upstate can't keep it's own residents. There simply aren't enough jobs.
What kind of Federal aid would a region with three or four Congressmen get?
Yeah right. I lived some of my life in Upstate New York, college, grad and Law school, and I have friends and family up there, and parts of that place are nothing more than an extension of Appalachia.Quote: AZDuffmanI will say it again, take out state workers in Albany and this is all far less true. That is the 4 county Albany area. The rest of upstate does not get this benefit. But they do have to help support the prisons filled with downstate criminals. Taxes would be lower if not for downstate voters favoring big spending. Split in 2 everyone would be happier. And upstate richer.
Upstate NY Anthem
Currently, the demand from NYC residents is extremely high. Properties are on the market for a day and persistently sell at over-asking price. Amongst Southern real estate agents there is a universal appraisal that people are moving from NYC metro area to the South as they have realized that they can do their jobs online and live anywhere. Its "Flight from NY."
Also, I have a friend who works as a manager in the Truck rental business. The flow of rental trucks is going one way -all over the Eastern US the rental companies have to pay drivers to drive rental trucks back to NYC metro area where they are immediately rented.
So much denial here by so many.
Quote: gordonm888My in-laws own a large real-estate office in East Tennessee.
Currently, the demand from NYC residents is extremely high. Properties are on the market for a day and persistently sell at over-asking price. Amongst Southern real estate agents there is a universal appraisal that people are moving from NYC metro area to the South as they have realized that they can do their jobs online and live anywhere. Its "Flight from NY."
Also, I have a friend who works as a manager in the Truck rental business. The flow of rental trucks is going one way -all over the Eastern US the rental companies have to pay drivers to drive rental trucks back to NYC metro area where they are immediately rented.
So much denial here by so many.
I'm sure that's true.
But you are not seeing the trees for the forest.
We are so overcrowded that finding a place to live here is nearly impossible. When people fail to find places to reside they move elsewhere.
We have 9 million people inside an area the size of Las Vegas. If even 500,000 people move away we are still too overcrowded.
The ridiculous idea that NYC is soon to be a ghost town is well just plain ridiculous
People that came to NYC, took mediocre paying jobs and lost them are leaving. Shocking.
Broadway is closed, and the thousands of support staff are laid off. The travel/service industry is operating at one third of 2018,
and unemployment is at thirty year highs, so people are leaving the apartments they can no longer afford. Shocking.
Is this a short term glitch or the start of NYC turning into a ghost town? I don't know but I will be looking to pick up some property if prices crash.
What I do know for certain is that many young, white, Long Islanders who were living in Brooklyn, Queens and Manhattan are returning home to their parents because they have been out of work for months. When the virus and its economic impact is over, I'm pretty sure most will go back and if they don't someone will replace them. I've no doubt some who left will never come back, but will they be missed?
On another forum someone was making a big deal of there being 15,000 vacant apartments in Manhattan. That sounds horrible until you realize there are around 300,000 apartments in total.
My friends son went deep into hock to buy a three apartment building for $400,000 a couple of years ago. He lived in the semi-finished basement for four years so he could rent out all three and moonlighted weekends to pay down the mortgage. Real estate in Brooklyn went crazy and he cleared almost $800,000 on the sale and moved to Western North Carolina. I suppose you could count him as someone who fled the city, but I see him as someone who took advantage of the opportunities it offered and moved on.
Quote: DeMangoNew York Times reported 420,000 left March - ?. Don't need the Post, Times will prove our point just fine. The concern is the wealthy taxpayers who are going to NJ and CT. Taxes will have to rise says Bill.
The numbers you are citing are during a pandemic.
Covid-19 swept through NY like a tornado. There was a point in time when the ambulance sirens never seemed to stop no matter what part of the city you lived in.
It was a gripping moment in time.
But using your logic, the airline industry is also done in for good. Look at all those airlines which have empty seats and laid off workers.
The list can go on.
People will be back (both NY and the airlines) once the pandemic is behind us.
And as I have been saying if you actually visited NYC I have no doubt your first comment would still be "Damn, there are so many people".
Quote: gordonm888My in-laws own a large real-estate office in East Tennessee.
Currently, the demand from NYC residents is extremely high. Properties are on the market for a day and persistently sell at over-asking price. Amongst Southern real estate agents there is a universal appraisal that people are moving from NYC metro area to the South as they have realized that they can do their jobs online and live anywhere. Its "Flight from NY."
Also, I have a friend who works as a manager in the Truck rental business. The flow of rental trucks is going one way -all over the Eastern US the rental companies have to pay drivers to drive rental trucks back to NYC metro area where they are immediately rented.
So much denial here by so many.
And, since I moved here because (in part) it's real cheap and no state income tax, let me provide some context for those who flee to beautiful eastern Tennessee (not that there's anything wrong with it; I did it). Now understand that the virus is just now raging here:
https://wreg.com/news/only-15-percent-of-tennesseans-reportedly-wear-masks-in-public/
https://www.johnsoncitypress.com/news/local-news/ne-tennessee-sets-record-for-new-covid-19-cases/article_d534c8a2-e4af-11ea-b337-73be33751386.html
(I live in Johnson City) And finally, for why some folks find eastern Tennessee so appealing right now. Let me throw this out there. In a land of large BLM protests, why not avoid those hassles and head for the home of the KKK? Makes sense, right? No state income tax, Dollywood, and a cross on quite a few corners.
As a white German boy, not a bad place for me to be, eh?
https://www.roadsnacks.net/most-racist-cities-in-tennessee/
I consider the words of this person to be profound:
"No one has a plan to counter the pandemic's impact upon society's norms. To even think there's a strategy to employ is dreaming because humanity is prone to failure. That characterizes and colors our progress as a species throughout our development. We're on record - oral tradition and documented - to be incorrigibly ignorant when logic and fear-driven imagination are free to choose from. We are fearful and fraught with poor decision making based upon it. This is why war remains a glorified feature of our existence from time immemorial.
There are a precious few who strive beyond the subsistence mentality of the herd to achieve what is beneficial to the global society by choosing logic over fear-based imagination as their path in life. We acknowledge them and wait for the fruits of their labor, in this case a vaccine, to rest the fear of disease and death from our otherwise helpless states of self-preservation. And, it is also these same people who will take us forward in all undertakings of life to soldier on with our oblivious stumblings at the average street mentality most are content to abide."
https://www.pix11.com/news/local-news/nyc-trying-to-recover-from-pandemic-unemployment
Quote: rxwineUnemployment in NYC is double the national rate.
https://www.pix11.com/news/local-news/nyc-trying-to-recover-from-pandemic-unemployment
I doubt any sane person thinks this is a permanent thing. Unless one thinks that Broadway will never reopen, and the cities tourism business will forevermore operate at 25% capacity. Or that the businesses that shut down won't be replaced by new ones.
I just read an article on Yahoo about how thousands of NYC families have fled to their second homes( can you believe people buy homes and don't live in them?) and are now deciding to stay there for the upcoming school year.
When Macy's has a semi-annual sale, people rush in to buy. IF NYC has a once in a generation sale, the smart money will rush in to take advantage.
Quote: billryan
When Macy's has a semi-annual sale, people rush in to buy.
the next sale Macy's may have may be a going out of business - everything must go - sale
they're close to bankruptcy and earlier this year announced plans to close more than 100 stores
I don't know if Covid will or will not be the final straw
there is some talk that they might benefit from the even bigger problems of Nordstrom and Lord and Taylor
https://www.axios.com/macys-financing-bankruptcy-9e973693-6cd9-4ad7-bf26-0914dbaeb7fc.html
Not even 3 weeks.
The mayor is also exploring the possibility of asking everyone who can work from home to do so, directly contradicting the “back to work if you can” approach pushed by Johnson at the start of this month.
On Saturday there were a further 4,422 confirmed Covid-19 cases across the UK – the first time the daily total has topped 4,000 for two consecutive days since early May.
“Hospital admissions are increasing, and will continue to increase for about two weeks after transmission is reduced.”
Quote: ChumpChange
On Saturday there were a further 4,422 confirmed Covid-19 cases across the UK – the first time the daily total has topped 4,000 for two consecutive days since early May.
“Hospital admissions are increasing, and will continue to increase for about two weeks after transmission is reduced.”
Funny thing about the virus and "opening up" theme.
If you go and do the things they told you would likely increase and spread the virus in June, all work the same way in September. And the same way in October, November, etc.,
People may be confusing opening up with the idea they can stand half the distance away, and only wear a mask half the time. Naw, it all works the same no matter what month day or time it is.
