Discussion II about the Suspension List
Blindness.Quote: AZDuffmanSocialism is evil.
Binary think.
1984. « Truth is lie ».
I can fight stupidity. I cannot fight blindness. This is a medical condition.
(Note: many people would say this about Moronald T)
Quote: ams288Yup. I hardly even look at DT anymore thanks to Nathan.
For someone who expects tolerance you sure don't give any in return.
#IT'SALLNATHAN'SFAULT
#ORANGEMANBAD
Quote: Dalex64Sorry, having tolerance does not mean that you have to tolerate intolerance. It sounds like a paradox, but really it isn't.
Is Nathan intolerant of others?
Quote: RSIs Nathan intolerant of others?
Context?
Because also, some words used in one context do not have the same meaning when they are used in another context.
Quote: Dalex64Context?
Because also, some words used in one context do not have the same meaning when they are used in another context.
I thought your post implied someone shouldn’t have to tolerate Nathan’s (supposed?) intolerance, just because they themselves are tolerant. Perhaps your post has nothing to do with Nathan and your post is meant for something else entirely.
Quote: Dalex64Sorry, having tolerance does not mean that you have to tolerate intolerance. It sounds like a paradox, but really it isn't.
It is such a paradox it has it's own wikipedia page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance
Tolerance and intolerance are just personality traits and we're perfectly free to move between them however we see fit. The same as any other feeling.
Quote: AxelWolfMidwestPlayer = sock??????????
Tonight is starting to feel like a WOV apocalypse
Where is Travis? Come in, Travis!
That page is not neutral. It promotes one view.Quote: TomGIt is such a paradox it has it's own wikipedia page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance
Tolerance and intolerance are just personality traits and we're perfectly free to move between them however we see fit. The same as any other feeling.
Tolerance is not an individual trait.
It is a society that is tolerant or intolerant, through its laws.
I always laugh when I read : »you are intolerant ». That doesn’t mean anything. It is especially ridiculous when used in order to silence the other person!
Quote: kubikulannThat page is not neutral. It promotes one view.
Tolerance is not an individual trait.
It is a society that is tolerant or intolerant, through its laws.
I always laugh when I read : »you are intolerant ». That doesn’t mean anything. It is especially ridiculous when used in order to silence the other person!
So by extension, an individual can't be bigoted because that would require the intolerance towards those of differing beliefs?
Eternal problem of language. At one point, a word needs to be more precisely defined if it is to be used in a specific context, be it science or politics etc.Quote: RSSo by extension, an individual can't be bigoted because that would require the intolerance towards those of differing beliefs?
In a political context, intolerance is a system where some opinions or creeds are not allowed, silenced and/or punished — by fines, prison or death, there is a degree of intolerance.
American and French Revolutions instituted Tolerance as a political principle: « even if I don’t like your opinion or belief, I guarantee your right to express it. » Technically it means Freedom of opinion, Freedom of religion, Freedom of speech, Freedom of press, Freedom of association, etc. (First amendment in US, Declaration of Rights in France)
When you speak of someone being intolerant to this or that, it is more in the vein of being intolerant to glucose. It does not affect the freedom rights of others.
You can say: « I don’t eat dogs. » it is not intolerant. You can say: « I don’t like people who eat dogs. » it is personal intolerance but the society remains tolerant. You can say: « I think that eating dogs should be forbidden. » it is your opinion. You cannot say: « I forbid the eating of dogs. » That is intolerance. Shocked? Well, replace ‘dog’ with pork or cow...
Now replace ‘eating dogs’ with ‘being gay’, ‘being black’, ‘being liberal or conservative ‘, etc.
PC excess has made « I don’t like people eating dogs » forbidden, under the term ‘hate speech’. Well, THAT is intolerance.
Laws must prevent libel and insults. It must not forbid offending. Offense is the natural effect of free speech, you cannot have one and not the other.
Personally, I think religious belief is irrational, stupid and dangerous. I will fight all my life to educate people, to reduce religion, to combat its precepts and preachers. That is not intolerance nor bigotry. Intolerance would be to forbid religion.
Anyway, what does bigotry really mean? Seems everyone has their own definition.
Quote: kubikulann
Personally, I think religious belief is irrational, stupid and dangerous. I will fight all my life to educate people, to reduce religion, to combat its precepts and preachers. That is not intolerance nor bigotry. Intolerance would be to forbid religion.
So, if we replace "religion" with something else then you will not call someone a bigot? Up to and including Trump?
Define bigot.Quote: AZDuffmanSo, if we replace "religion" with something else then you will not call someone a bigot? Up to and including Trump?
Quote: WizardofnothingMy suggestion is that there is no need for discussion about it- the thread should be for mods only simply putting the suspension in witting and what it was for end of story .... The rest is just nonsense
Agreed!
It appears that instantly blocking the Gay thread was one of the best decisions I've made.
Quote: kubikulannDefine bigot.
It is generally a word used by the left to describe people not in agreement with them when they cannot defend their position based on merit.
| Member | Suspended On | Number Days | Reason | Suspension Ends |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| romes | 8/12/19 | 3 | Personal insult | 8/15/19 |
| PokerGrinder | 8/12/19 | 3 | Personal insult | 8/15/19 |
| beachbumbabs | 8/13/19 | 3 | Personal insult | 8/16/19 |
| billryan | 8/13/19 | 3 | Profanity | 8/16/19 |
Please be advised the new rule takes effect here immediately. You may still give your two cents on suspensions, but may not make statements of a political, religious, or sexual nature.
Quote: MaxPenI wonder how BillRyan continues to avoid the martingale in his suspensions? He did get 7 days on his last recent one. Shouldn't this one be 30 days?
I'll let the use of the s-word be exempt from the Martingale this time, but it certainly doesn't reset it.
Quote: MaxPenI wonder how BillRyan continues to avoid the martingale in his suspensions? He did get 7 days on his last recent one. Shouldn't this one be 30 days?
Life has already martingaled him, why pile on here?
I have a request.
I don’t protest my suspension. I used a forbidden word.
But I formally resent the motive you wrote down in the suspension list.
« Hate speech »!!
Me? Guilty of hate?
Two of my best friends are gay. I even lived several months with one and his boyfriend. They had a rainbow flag on the wall. It is they whom I heard use the term « f** flag » as an alliterative gimmick. Sometimes it was even « f*** flag » !!
Conceded, we are much more at ease with foul words in Europe. No fuss, nobody gives a dime. Words are just that, words.
But fundamentally, NO HATE ! It’s a joke, it’s poetry, it’s bad taste, it’s forbidden in America or in Vegas or on your site, but it - is - not - hate - speech in this context, and certainly not coming from me ! ! !
So, if you please, my request is that you change the official motive of my suspension. Label it ‘profanity’ or ‘impropriety’ or ‘offending’ — don’t libel it ‘hate’.
Thank you.
Kubikulann
Quote: kubikulannDear Wizard,
I have a request.
I don’t protest my suspension. I used a forbidden word.
But I formally resent the motive you wrote down in the suspension list.
« Hate speech »!!
Me? Guilty of hate?
Two of my best friends are gay. I even lived several months with one and his boyfriend. They had a rainbow flag on the wall. It is they whom I heard use the term « f** flag » as an alliterative gimmick. Sometimes it was even « f*** flag » !!
Conceded, we are much more at ease with foul words in Europe. No fuss, nobody gives a dime. Words are just that, words.
But fundamentally, NO HATE ! It’s a joke, it’s poetry, it’s bad taste, it’s forbidden in America or in Vegas or on your site, but it - is - not - hate - speech in this context, and certainly not coming from me ! ! !
So, if you please, my request is that you change the official motive of my suspension. Label it ‘profanity’ or ‘impropriety’ or ‘offending’ — don’t libel it ‘hate’.
Thank you.
Kubikulann
Yes, you are the exception to everything. You sure know how to play that foreign card. Everything is different across the ocean, I guess.
MaxPen, you know I hate you, and I have a guess that I am not an exception there.Quote: MaxPenYes, you are the exception to everything. You sure know how to play that foreign card. Everything is different across the ocean, I guess.
😁 Come have a look at how things go here. This is no socialist hellhole. When you do, give me a sign and I’ll gladly accommodate you. I have plenty of spare rooms.
Chuss.
Quote: kubikulannDear Wizard,
I have a request.
I don’t protest my suspension. I used a forbidden word.
But I formally resent the motive you wrote down in the suspension list.
« Hate speech »!!
Me? Guilty of hate?
Two of my best friends are gay. I even lived several months with one and his boyfriend. They had a rainbow flag on the wall. It is they whom I heard use the term « f** flag » as an alliterative gimmick. Sometimes it was even « f*** flag » !!
Conceded, we are much more at ease with foul words in Europe. No fuss, nobody gives a dime. Words are just that, words.
But fundamentally, NO HATE ! It’s a joke, it’s poetry, it’s bad taste, it’s forbidden in America or in Vegas or on your site, but it - is - not - hate - speech in this context, and certainly not coming from me ! ! !
So, if you please, my request is that you change the official motive of my suspension. Label it ‘profanity’ or ‘impropriety’ or ‘offending’ — don’t libel it ‘hate’.
Thank you.
Kubikulann
First, f*g is indeed an offensive word in the US. When its me enforcing the rules, I have no other point of view to go by.
Second, just because people within a group may use a particular word, doesn't make it acceptable for those outside the group to use it. Blacks sometimes call each other the N-word, but if anyone else called them that, I assure you it would be taken as fighting words. It gets more involved whether or not an "r" is at the end, but I won't get into that.
However, I believe that your intent was not hate speech, after reading this post. I'll change the reason for the suspension, but will footnote the change.
Quote: kubikulannMaxPen, you know I hate you, and I have a guess that I am not an exception there.
😁 Come have a look at how things go here. This is no socialist hellhole. When you do, give me a sign and I’ll gladly accommodate you. I have plenty of spare rooms.
Chuss.
I'm heading to Spain in October. Was in Italy in December. I get around enough to see what's what. I'm adept at detecting BS on an international level. I don't pretend like I'm from Mars everytime I get out of line.
(I understand your position. I was not discussing it, just explaining how bad behavior happened.)
Quote: kubikulann
Me? Guilty of hate?
Two of my best friends are gay.
Some of my best friends are black. Well, actually, I only have one black friend left. He's in prison. I've known him since we were teens. He's a good guy. It's his brother I worry about. He's in prison too. Something like 80 years for trying to kill his girlfriend by setting her on fire. I knew him when we were teens also, though he was a few years older. Seemed like a nice guy.
Okay, I see what you did there. I'm going to start calling you EvenBoBbartop 🤣 That's almost exactly the kind of thing he would say.Quote: bobbartopSome of my best friends are black. Well, actually, I only have one black friend left. He's in prison. I've known him since we were teens. He's a good guy. It's his brother I worry about. He's in prison too. Something like 80 years for trying to kill his girlfriend by setting her on fire. I knew him when we were teens also, though he was a few years older. Seemed like a nice guy.
Quote: beachbumbabsI'm done with the hate-trolling on here. The toe-touching the line of ugliness but not over it by a technicality. I agree with redietz. In this thread, Max and EB are playing a nasty hate-speech game about gays. AZD is piling on with his usual misinformed social garbage. It's like pond scum from the disgusting political threads is dragged into every other waterway by the same slimy fouled boats.
...Not sure why RS wanted leniency for MaxPen. Fooled me - I thought Max had more character than this, but the garbage he posted that included the comment in this OP on his return shows he didn't deserve to come back early. Fool me.once...shame on you. Fool me twice...won't get fooled again. GWB had something there.
I hate to have to make this post, but I am left with no better choices. Let me make it clear that one of the duties of an administrator is to set an example of acceptable public behavior. The biggest problem in running this forum, probably any forum, is personal insults. If one cannot obey a rule prohibiting it, one should not be in a position of enforcing it.
That said, I am making a public warning to beachbumbabs that the quote above was in violation of forum rules and if it is repeated in the near future, stronger action will be taken.
Normally, that post would result in an immediate demotion as administrator, but I am weighing it against her many years of good and loyal service. Hopefully, with the new rules against touchy subjects, we can put this incident behind us.
Quote:Thought this board took a stand against hate speech last year. Guess it didn't take. Don't know why we have to look at a confederate flag every time AZD posts. Might as well be 1488 - he makes that obvious.
Put me in red if you want, or not. I'm happy to be cell-mate with these two.
Administrators disagree with each other all the time. That should be expected. However, such disagreements should and up until now have be made in private.
Rank-and-file blue members may make acts of civil disobedience and they will be handled appropriately per forum rules. However, it shows great disrespect for administrators to be making them against each other.
Again, I thank BBB for her many years of service and hope now that this warning will be acknowledged and we can get past it.
Quote: WizardI hate to have to make this post, but I am left with no better choices. Let me make it clear that one of the duties of an administrator is to set an example of acceptable public behavior. The biggest problem in running this forum, probably any forum, is personal insults. If one cannot obey a rule prohibiting it, one should not be in a position of enforcing it.
That said, I am making a public warning to beachbumbabs that the quote above was in violation of forum rules and if it is repeated in the near future, stronger action will be taken.
Normally, that post would result in an immediate demotion as administrator, but I am weighing it against her many years of good and loyal service. Hopefully, with the new rules against touchy subjects, we can put this incident behind us.
Administrators disagree with each other all the time. That should be expected. However, such disagreements should and up until now have be made in private.
Rank-and-file blue members may make acts of civil disobedience and they will be handled appropriately per forum rules. However, it shows great disrespect for administrators to be making them against each other.
Again, I thank BBB for her many years of service and hope now that this warning will be acknowledged and we can get past it.
I acknowledge this warning, thank you for also acknowledging my many years of service.
I think he's still a little salty you got on Jeopardy.Quote: beachbumbabsI acknowledge this warning, thank you for also acknowledging my many years of service.
Quote: AxelWolfI think he's still a little salty you got on Jeopardy.
I'm pretty sure I can get him on there, too, if he wants to do it. He just has to take the online test.
Quote: beachbumbabsI'm pretty sure I can get him on there, too, if he wants to do it. He just has to take the online test.
You got on? When were you on the show.
Quote: EvenBobYou got on? When were you on the show.
I taped about 3 weeks ago. My first (and possibly last) show will be shown Sept. 18.
Quote: EvenBobYou got on? When were you on the show.
Her first episode airs next month.
Quote: beachbumbabsI taped about 3 weeks ago. My first (and possibly last) show will be shown Sept. 18.
"Possibly last?" I thought it was binary. Either you win/tie and move on or you don't and get parting gifts?
I haven't watched seriously in 20+ years so if I am missing something please excuse me in advance.
Quote: mcallister3200You aren’t missing anything. They can’t talk about what happened before it aired.
Oh, that makes sense then. Thanks!
Quote: beachbumbabsI taped about 3 weeks ago. My first (and possibly last) show will be shown Sept. 18.
Are you looking forward to the airing
or will you be hiding that week.
Quote: EvenBobAre you looking forward to the airing
or will you be hiding that week.
Just getting on the show is an accomplishment in its own right. Whether she lasted 1 show or 20 shows I don’t think there’s any reason to hide.
Bob, Barbara invited a number of us to actually go and to the taping with her. There's a thread discussing this, you might want to check it out.Quote: EvenBobAre you looking forward to the airing
or will you be hiding that week.
Quote: AxelWolfBob, Barbara invited a number of us to actually go and to the taping with her. There's a thread discussing this, you might want to check it out.
What is the name of the thread
Quote: EvenBobWhat is the name of the thread
Nathans Corner
Just start at page 1 and keep reading until you get to the jeopardy discussion.
Quote: michael99000Nathans Corner
Just start at page 1 and keep reading until you get to the jeopardy discussion.
Funny guy!
Real thread:
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/questions-and-answers/casual-corner/32698-jeopardy-online-test-2019/
Only today Oct 20 am I finally given access again.
There is no channel through which you can present your defense, contest an unjust decision, appeal to other mods, signal these types of errors, make yourself heard once you are suspended.
This all creates a justice problem.
Quote: kubikulannI have been suspended 14 days, end date Oct 13.
Only today Oct 20 am I finally given access again.
There is no channel through which you can present your defense, contest an unjust decision, appeal to other mods, signal these types of errors, make yourself heard once you are suspended.
This all creates a justice problem.
Will you be ok? It must be devestating not being able to post to a forum for an extra 7 days.
ZCore13
Quote: kubikulannI have been suspended 14 days, end date Oct 13.
Only today Oct 20 am I finally given access again.
There is no channel through which you can present your defense, contest an unjust decision, appeal to other mods, signal these types of errors, make yourself heard once you are suspended.
This all creates a justice problem.
You were most likely guilty of other infractions that were not enforced. You are supposed to consider it time served for those.
I had a similar experience on my last suspension. #PENANCE
