General Sports Talk
Poll
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69 members have voted
I watch an NFL game today and barely recognize it as football. It's the 6/5 blackjack of sports, the triple zero roulette wheel. It's been said that football is like a TV drama show where you never really know how it will end. That's still true. It hasn't sunk to the level of pro wrestling ... yet. But as the endless parade of new rules increases, what's the difference between a scripted show and a game that gets scripted by its officials and never mind what happens on the field?
And make no mistake: the NFL is a TV show. It's main concern is TV ratings and merchandise sales. Everything else is a distant second. Integrity is merely a tool, something they'll wave in your face if the situation calls for it, and quietly ignore if it's convenient to them.
Football has worked with gambling for generations. They give a midweek injury report and tell you how may not be able to play.
The NFL is a business, not a league.
Gialmere two posts up is saying that the NFL puts out a lousy product
I disagree and so do millions of other fans
the coaches and the players are able to demonstrate their skills and it can be fascinating to watch even without betting
I don't know what else a person can expect from a sport
watching it is not going to make you a great person if you're not already a great person - although many think if their team wins it will________________(-:\
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The NFL is now a joke that just gets funnier with every passing year. It's become a game of goofy golf played on a miniature course designed to vaguely mimic St Andrews. But who knows? Maybe if the new gambling money reaches the level of TV and merchandising revenue, changes will be made. For example, the color of the Gatorade dumped on the winning coach's head at the Superbowl will now have to be randomly determined. You know, to maintain the sport's integrity.
I'll speak no more of this. I don't want to be a wet blanket on a thread for people who still love the league. God knows I'm in the minority. I'm just a guy who was an NFL fanatic in his youth, and now, when I see an NFL game, all I feel is embarrassment.
Quote: Gialmere
I'll speak no more of this. I don't want to be a wet blanket on a thread for people who still love the league. God knows I'm in the minority. I'm just a guy who was an NFL fanatic in his youth, and now, when I see an NFL game, all I feel is embarrassment.
link to original post
I watch very little NFL anymore. I used to watch 100 games a year and now I probably watch less than 10.
Quote: Gialmere[Yes. This is just my own humble opinion, told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.]
The NFL is now a joke that just gets funnier with every passing year. It's become a game of goofy golf played on a miniature course designed to vaguely mimic St Andrews. But who knows? Maybe if the new gambling money reaches the level of TV and merchandising revenue, changes will be made. For example, the color of the Gatorade dumped on the winning coach's head at the Superbowl will now have to be randomly determined. You know, to maintain the sport's integrity.
I'll speak no more of this. I don't want to be a wet blanket on a thread for people who still love the league. God knows I'm in the minority. I'm just a guy who was an NFL fanatic in his youth, and now, when I see an NFL game, all I feel is embarrassment.
link to original post
You love football but can't tell the XFL, which is in season, from the NFL, which hasn't played a game in months?
Gervonta Davis is an undefeated boxer with a record of 29-0 with 27 knockouts
last night he knocked out Ryan Garcia with a vicious body shot - it was Garcia's first loss - before last night he was 23-0
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https://sports.yahoo.com/gervonta-davis-knocks-out-ryan-garcia-in-round-7-with-ferocious-body-shot-041732252.html
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Quote: lilredrooster.
Gervonta Davis is an undefeated boxer with a record of 29-0 with 27 knockouts
last night he knocked out Ryan Garcia with a vicious body shot - it was Garcia's first loss - before last night he was 23-0
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https://sports.yahoo.com/gervonta-davis-knocks-out-ryan-garcia-in-round-7-with-ferocious-body-shot-041732252.html
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link to original post
That’s pretty amazing because he also used to be an NFL cornerback, retired from the NFL at halftime of a game.
Rolll Tide!
The Tampa Bay Rays are currently 26-6 - the best 32 game start since the 1984 Detroit Tigers
they have:
scored the most runs in the majors
have the highest batting average
the best on base slugging %
and the most home runs
they have allowed the fewest runs and homers
and have the lowest opponents average and O.P.S.
wow
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/04/sports/baseball/tampa-bay-rays.html
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in 2020 MLB recognized 7 Negro Leagues as being major leagues and is in the process of adopting its stats into its database
baseballreference.com already has much of it
in 1937 in just 39 games and 156 at bats Josh Gibson hit 20 homers and 73 RBIs and batted .411
https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/g/gibsojo99.shtml
https://theathletic.com/4503613/2023/05/11/negro-leagues-statistics-mlb-records/
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r.i.p. Jim Brown - maybe the greatest r.b. ever
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/37685864/all-great-running-back-jim-brown-dies-87
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Quote: lilredrooster.
r.i.p. Jim Brown - maybe the greatest r.b. ever
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/37685864/all-great-running-back-jim-brown-dies-87
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Long Island used to be the Center of the Lacross Universe and Mr Brown is considered the best player ever. Old Timers will tell you he dominated lacross better than he did the NFL.
When I was in high school and college, he would show up at the county playoffs every year.
the link provides a more comprehensive bio of Brown if you can get past their paywall - it's pretty interesting - nyt is king of the world in journalism imo
I get past it by putting the title in google and then clicking the link
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/19/sports/football/jim-brown-dead.html
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Quote: SOOPOOHeat beat Celtics TWICE in Boston. Celtics coach looks lost. Doesn’t seem to know how to use timeouts. Has no plays to call down the stretch other than have Tatum try to get past two defenders to score. Couldn’t figure out that Butler was the player they had to stop. I think Celtics signed him to big contract at the end of the season. I’m sure they are regretting it now.
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I disagree pretty strongly with the take and think it’s after the fact results based narrative. Second game everyone pointing to the fourth quarter but if they lost because of coaching it’s because they didn’t figure out Miami’s zone quickly in 2nd/3rd, allowing them to hide Kevin Love and Duncan Robinson way too much. Between the zone and Tatum’s ballhandling fails, very much an offensive collapse loss vs anything else.
Fourth quarter, I don’t blame the coach for not doubling off a team shooting 45% threes in the playoffs to double a max 50% midrange shot on a guy who happened to shoot it at 80% that game, or for the fact that Tatum kept dribbling the ball of defenders feet.
It’s fair to point out that Udoka, Hardy (Utah’s coach) and Mazzulla were all on Brad Stevens staff, so probably underrated his staff is weak in addition to his inexperience. They’ve got a lot of work on staffing to do regardless of who head coach is, they really miss Hardy for sure.
Things looking great for Denver right now, assuming series’ leads hold.
it's a really great Lightweight Championship fight tonight
I don't think I've ever been interested in a lightweight fight before - but I am interested in this one
these guys weigh only 135 - amazing how strong they look for weighing so little
undefeated - 29-0 - Devin Haney - vs. Vasiliy Lomachenko - 17-2
these guys are really quick
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https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/19/sports/haney-lomachenko-fight.html
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Quote: SOOPOOHeat beat Celtics TWICE in Boston. Celtics coach looks lost. Doesn’t seem to know how to use timeouts. Has no plays to call down the stretch other than have Tatum try to get past two defenders to score. Couldn’t figure out that Butler was the player they had to stop. I think Celtics signed him to big contract at the end of the season. I’m sure they are regretting it now.
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I think a large part of Boston’s coaching choices are impacted by the fact Stevens moved from first pro coaching job making only first time head coaches feasible from an interpersonal perspective. Like he probably can’t hire Rick Carlisle or any established coach due to ego conflicts.
Watching game 3 vs Lakers in LA last night, they were getting a pretty awful whistle from the refs in the second half and it didn’t phase them at all.
Nikolai Jokic is so atypical of an NBA superstar (not referring to his color)
he seems to move around very slowly but it doesn't seem to hinder him
he's not all that tall for a Center - 6'11" - but he's very bulky, 284 lbs., and his bulk helps him quite a bit
he seems to make close to zero mistakes and plays a very smart game
he got very close to a triple double this past season - just missed it by only getting 9.8 assists per game
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lots of quotes from Yogi Berra in the quotes thread
so much attention to his quotes it's easy to forget how great a player he was
maybe the greatest catcher of all time
3 MVP awards, 15 All Star Game appearances, caught Don Larsen's perfect game and 10 World Series rings
one year he batted .322 and got 124 rbi
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Quote: lilredrooster.
lots of quotes from Yogi Berra in the quotes thread
so much attention to his quotes it's easy to forget how great a player he was
maybe the greatest catcher of all time
3 MVP awards, 15 All Star Game appearances, caught Don Larsen's perfect game and 10 World Series rings
one year he batted .322 and got 124 rbi
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link to original post
Yogi is one of the best catchers of all time, but I think you'll be hard-pressed to find experts who put him above Johnny Bench.
Folks of our era were fortunate enough to see Bench, Fisk, Munson, Rodriquez, and HOFers like Gary Carter and Ted Simmons.
Quote: billryan
Yogi is one of the best catchers of all time, but I think you'll be hard-pressed to find experts who put him above Johnny Bench.
Folks of our era were fortunate enough to see Bench, Fisk, Munson, Rodriquez, and HOFers like Gary Carter and Ted Simmons.
link to original post
Yogi Berra was a great catcher. But he won his three MVP's during a period when the sportswriters were voting for catchers (Berra, Campanella) over guys like Mantle, Musial and Mays. There was just a sense that these catchers handled the pitching staffs, and were more valuable than centerfielders and first basemen even though their offensive production was lower.
I think if you include Ted Simmons on your list, then it might be appropriate to include Mike Piazza. And Pudge Rodriguez will probably make the HOF but he was a great defensive catcher and not much else. I put Pudge in the same category as Brooks Robinson, Bill Mazeroski, Luis Aparicio and Ozzie Smith (although Ozzie is the best player on that particular list and was more than just a defensive wizard.)
I know you're a Yankees fan, but Munson doesn't belong on that list, in my opinion. Berra and Dickey were both significantly better than Munson. (reasonable people might disagree)
Quote: gordonm888Quote: billryan
Yogi is one of the best catchers of all time, but I think you'll be hard-pressed to find experts who put him above Johnny Bench.
Folks of our era were fortunate enough to see Bench, Fisk, Munson, Rodriquez, and HOFers like Gary Carter and Ted Simmons.
link to original post
Yogi Berra was a great catcher. But he won his three MVP's during a period when the sportswriters were voting for catchers (Berra, Campanella) over guys like Mantle, Musial and Mays. There was just a sense that these catchers handled the pitching staffs, and were more valuable than centerfielders and first basemen even though their offensive production was lower.
I think if you include Ted Simmons on your list, then it might be appropriate to include Mike Piazza. And Pudge Rodriguez will probably make the HOF but he was a great defensive catcher and not much else. I put Pudge in the same category as Brooks Robinson, Bill Mazeroski, Luis Aparicio and Ozzie Smith (although Ozzie is the best player on that particular list and was more than just a defensive wizard.)
I know you're a Yankees fan, but Munson doesn't belong on that list, in my opinion. Berra and Dickey were both significantly better than Munson. (reasonable people might disagree)
link to original post
I don't think Munson was as good as Berra, and I know almost nothing about Dickey. Munson was getting to the point where he would have transitioned to a first baseman or full time DH, and I believe he'd have padded his numbers quite a bit. He was the only player in the 70s to hit .300 with 100 RBIs three years in a row, and was as good as Fisk.
I never liked Piazza and have heard from people who claim to have first-hand knowledge he was doing steroids in the minor leagues.
IRod is already in the Hall, and his .296 lifetime average and seven Silver Slugger awards indicate he was more than just a defensive catcher. I suspect he might have done steroids in his later days as he transformed his body almost overnight.
Quote: gordonm888I don't think Munson was as good as Berra, and I know almost nothing about Dickey. Munson was getting to the point where he would have transitioned to a first baseman or full time DH, and I believe he'd have padded his numbers quite a bit. He was the only player in the 70s to hit .300 with 100 RBIs three years in a row, and was as good as Fisk.
I never liked Piazza and have heard from people who claim to have first-hand knowledge he was doing steroids in the minor leagues.
IRod is already in the Hall, and his .296 lifetime average and seven Silver Slugger awards indicate he was more than just a defensive catcher. I suspect he might have done steroids in his later days as he transformed his body almost overnight.
So, let me get this straight .296 lifetime batting average, and someone who was a really low draft pick (I think something like 19th round) who performed at the highest levels, were steroid users? So, how come these "juiced" dudes did not hit 700 HR's or 600 HR's or bench press 500+ lbs.? Give me a break!
tuttigym
Quote: tuttigym
So, let me get this straight .296 lifetime batting average, and someone who was a really low draft pick (I think something like 19th round) who performed at the highest levels, were steroid users? So, how come these "juiced" dudes did not hit 700 HR's or 600 HR's or bench press 500+ lbs.? Give me a break!
tuttigym
link to original post
you somehow managed to show the quote that you are criticizing as coming from gordon888
but it was billryan who posted it - not gordon888
your stinging criticism of the post should be directed at billryan - not at gordon888 -
just to set the record straight - as obviously all of this is a very important part of the documentation of MLB history -
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Quote: lilredroosterQuote: tuttigym
So, let me get this straight .296 lifetime batting average, and someone who was a really low draft pick (I think something like 19th round) who performed at the highest levels, were steroid users? So, how come these "juiced" dudes did not hit 700 HR's or 600 HR's or bench press 500+ lbs.? Give me a break!
tuttigym
link to original post
you somehow managed to show the quote that you are criticizing as coming from gordon888
but it was billryan who posted it - not gordon888
your stinging criticism of the post should be directed at billryan - not at gordon888 -
just to set the record straight - as obviously all of this is a very important part of the documentation of MLB history -
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link to original post
You are correct. I do apologize to gordon888 for the mis-attribution.
My post stands regarding the criticism. As far as "documentation, there is none involving steroids and batting average or the parties mentioned in the original post.
tuttigym
Quote: tuttigym
So, let me get this straight .296 lifetime batting average, and someone who was a really low draft pick (I think something like 19th round) who performed at the highest levels, were steroid users? So, how come these "juiced" dudes did not hit 700 HR's or 600 HR's or bench press 500+ lbs.? Give me a break!
tuttigym
link to original post
I'm not quite sure what you are saying
if you are saying that you doubt that steroid use had a significant impact on the game then I refer you to the linked summary from Wiki which is pretty good imo
as to your comment about the no. of home runs - both Barry Bonds and Mark McGwire have admitted steroid use
Bonds hit 762 homers lifetime and McGwire hit 583
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doping_in_baseball#:~:text=Steroids%20finally%20made%20it%20to,the%20usage%20did%20not%20stop.
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a few spectacular dunks on basketball's 132 year old 10 foot rims
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Quote: lilredroosterQuote: tuttigym
So, let me get this straight .296 lifetime batting average, and someone who was a really low draft pick (I think something like 19th round) who performed at the highest levels, were steroid users? So, how come these "juiced" dudes did not hit 700 HR's or 600 HR's or bench press 500+ lbs.? Give me a break!
tuttigym
link to original post
I'm not quite sure what you are saying
if you are saying that you doubt that steroid use had a significant impact on the game then I refer you to the linked summary from Wiki which is pretty good imo
as to your comment about the no. of home runs - both Barry Bonds and Mark McGwire have admitted steroid use
Bonds hit 762 homers lifetime and McGwire hit 583
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doping_in_baseball#:~:text=Steroids%20finally%20made%20it%20to,the%20usage%20did%20not%20stop.
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Thank you for the link. I found the information interesting and totally inconclusive.
1. The fact that several prominent players used and achieved is too small a sample size to be valid especially since the article points out that Canseco stated in his tell all book that " as many as 80% of players used steroids." Another author in the same paragraph stated that "25 - 40% of ALL (emphasis) Major Leaguers are juiced." So how come less than .1% of players put up the record breaking numbers?
2. Parts of the article stated that amphetamines were the drug of choice. The article stated that amphetamines were used for "endurance and mental focus." Baseball is not a sport where cardio-vascular endurance is a predominant ingredient for success.
3. Google: anabolic steroids - "Winning at Any Cost": It states twhat it (steroids) actually does is "helps build muscle tissue and increase body mass ..... steroids CANNOT (emphasis) improve an athlete's agility or skill." In other words steroids do NOT improve or increase hand-eye coordination, reflexes, timing, visual acuity, or any other hitting ingredient necessary to be an effective batter. Hitting Major League pitching is probably among the most difficult athletic skills in sport, and according to Google and the NY Dept of Health steroids do NOT improve those skills.
4. The Wikileaks article provides NO SCIENCE in the article only conjecture linking some record breaking individual achievements to the drug.
The outside noise that is continuous from ignorant sports writers and pundits about steroids and HR's is just flat out wrong.
tuttigym
great buzzer beater by Derrick White to force a game 7 in the series
so cool that you can see the clock at the same time as his shot - it left his hand with just one tenth of a second left in the game
the Celts were down 3-0 in the series and were getting talked down by everybody
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Quote: tuttigym
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Thank you for the link. I found the information interesting and totally inconclusive.
1. The fact that several prominent players used and achieved is too small a sample size to be valid especially since the article points out that Canseco stated in his tell all book that " as many as 80% of players used steroids." Another author in the same paragraph stated that "25 - 40% of ALL (emphasis) Major Leaguers are juiced." So how come less than .1% of players put up the record breaking numbers?
3. Google: anabolic steroids - "Winning at Any Cost": It states twhat it (steroids) actually does is "helps build muscle tissue and increase body mass ..... steroids CANNOT (emphasis) improve an athlete's agility or skill." In other words steroids do NOT improve or increase hand-eye coordination, reflexes, timing, visual acuity, or any other hitting ingredient necessary to be an effective batter. Hitting Major League pitching is probably among the most difficult athletic skills in sport, and according to Google and the NY Dept of Health steroids do NOT improve those skills.
4. The Wikileaks article provides NO SCIENCE in the article only conjecture linking some record breaking individual achievements to the drug.
The outside noise that is continuous from ignorant sports writers and pundits about steroids and HR's is just flat out wrong.
tuttigym
link to original post
your point that steroid use may not have greatly improved player performance is largely irrelevant
in 1990 Congress made steroids an illegal drug via the Anabolic Steroids Control Act
whether or not they gained from the usage - the players who used them after 1990 were cheaters who broke the law - who attempted to gain an unfair and illegal advantage
Barry Bonds, Curt Schilling, Roger Clemens and Mark McGwire have been righteously denied entry into the Hall of Fame due to suspicions or admissions of steroid use
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Quote: lilredroosterQuote: tuttigym
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Thank you for the link. I found the information interesting and totally inconclusive.
1. The fact that several prominent players used and achieved is too small a sample size to be valid especially since the article points out that Canseco stated in his tell all book that " as many as 80% of players used steroids." Another author in the same paragraph stated that "25 - 40% of ALL (emphasis) Major Leaguers are juiced." So how come less than .1% of players put up the record breaking numbers?
3. Google: anabolic steroids - "Winning at Any Cost": It states twhat it (steroids) actually does is "helps build muscle tissue and increase body mass ..... steroids CANNOT (emphasis) improve an athlete's agility or skill." In other words steroids do NOT improve or increase hand-eye coordination, reflexes, timing, visual acuity, or any other hitting ingredient necessary to be an effective batter. Hitting Major League pitching is probably among the most difficult athletic skills in sport, and according to Google and the NY Dept of Health steroids do NOT improve those skills.
4. The Wikileaks article provides NO SCIENCE in the article only conjecture linking some record breaking individual achievements to the drug.
The outside noise that is continuous from ignorant sports writers and pundits about steroids and HR's is just flat out wrong.
tuttigym
link to original post
your point that steroid use may not have greatly improved player performance is largely irrelevant
in 1990 Congress made steroids an illegal drug via the Anabolic Steroids Control Act
whether or not they gained from the usage - the players who used them after 1990 were cheaters who broke the law - who attempted to gain an unfair and illegal advantage
Barry Bonds, Curt Schilling, Roger Clemens and Mark McGwire have been righteously denied entry into the Hall of Fame due to suspicions or admissions of steroid use
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link to original post
Congress passes hundreds of laws making all kinds of acts illegal which are violated continuously making those perpetrators "cheaters." Those individuals are consistently "gaining an unfair and illegal advantage" over our system. So, it seems that, in your mind, laws passed by the Congress are gospel?
Your statement "who ATTEMPTED (emphasis) to gain an unfair advantage" is flat out wrong because there was NO advantage gained per the existing science. What is "irrelevant" are your assumptions and logic. You certainly are entitled to your opinions regarding the HOF, but you are not entitled to your erroneous spin.
tuttigym
Quote: lilredrooster.
great buzzer beater by Derrick White to force a game 7 in the series
so cool that you can see the clock at the same time as his shot - it left his hand with just one tenth of a second left in the game
the Celts were down 3-0 in the series and were getting talked down by everybody
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link to original post
I wished death on the man after that shot. Not my proudest moment but it hurt
Quote: tuttigym
The outside noice that is continuous from ignorant sports writers and pundits about steroids and HR's is just flat out wrong"
tuttigym
link to original post
the link from Scientific American indicates how steroids can boost performance in MLB players
the 2nd link draws similar conclusions - from Physics Professor Roger Tobin of Tufts University
I'm sure you will call these link nonsense as you do everything else that contradicts your point of view
this will be my last post on the subject - feel free to get the last word - feel free to add ScientificAmerican.com and Professor Roger Tobin to your list of purveyors of nonsense
and please - continue to minimize the culpability of players who went so far as to break the law in their attempt to gain a cheating advantage
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/a-rod-steroids-better-athlete/
http://baseball.physics.illinois.edu/Tobin_AJP_Jan08.pdf
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Quote: lilredrooster.
great buzzer beater by Derrick White to force a game 7 in the series
so cool that you can see the clock at the same time as his shot - it left his hand with just one tenth of a second left in the game
the Celts were down 3-0 in the series and were getting talked down by everybody
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link to original post
Really weird series. Miami Great coach vs fraudulent/overmatched coaching staff, Miami fraudulent team riding unsustainable shooting luck vs good team, which seemed to run out with their best shooter missing two open threes late g6.
Celtics have very much struggled vs zone whole series, pretty much inexcusable they’ve allowed Miami to be able hide Robinson and Love so much with that. Mazzulla did make a big time adjustment last game pre-switching screens while Jaylen Brown was in fouls trouble, allowing him to stay in the game while keeping Miami from attacking him. He’s showing growth but still very overmatched by Spoelstra.
it will be the Denver Nuggets first appearance ever in the Finals
they were founded in 1967 as the Denver Larks in the ABA but changed their name to the Rockets before the 1st season
the Rockets then changed their name to the Nuggets in 1974
the Nuggets played for the final ABA Championship in 1976 losing to the New York Nets
they joined the NBA in 1976 along with 3 other teams from the ABA
1st time in the NBA Finals in 47 years - wow
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Quote: lilredroosterQuote: tuttigym
The outside noice that is continuous from ignorant sports writers and pundits about steroids and HR's is just flat out wrong"
tuttigym
link to original post
the link from Scientific American indicates how steroids can boost performance in MLB players
the 2nd link draws similar conclusions - from Physics Professor Roger Tobin of Tufts University
I'm sure you will call these link nonsense as you do everything else that contradicts your point of view
this will be my last post on the subject - feel free to get the last word - feel free to add ScientificAmerican.com and Professor Roger Tobin to your list of purveyors of nonsense
and please - continue to minimize the culpability of players who went so far as to break the law in their attempt to gain a cheating advantage
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/a-rod-steroids-better-athlete/
http://baseball.physics.illinois.edu/Tobin_AJP_Jan08.pdf
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link to original post
Again, thanks for the links. The readings were informative but do raise some questions. Feel free to answer if you can, but I realize that for you they would be unknowable only because some questions are unanswerable.
1. A-Rod is in the HOF, but for three years he "cheated." Shouldn't he be disqualified and removed from the HOF?
2. That article specified that there were 104 named Major Leaguers on a list of drug users with A-Rod among them. Why weren't there 103 other-worldly performances from those players even in the short term?
3. I have read Tobin before and certainly do NOT consider him a "purveyor of nonsense." {BTW if I were to suggest that you or anyone else were "purveyors of nonsense," I probably would be suspended.) Somehow you along with others seem to totally discount his basic conclusions:
"Physics cannot tell us whether a particular home run was steroid-assisted or even whether an extraordinary individual performance indicates the use of illicit means. But physics, combined with physiology, can constrain the extent of performance enhancement that COULD BE (emphasis) attributed to the use of drugs.......... These results (comparing "steroid-era players to earlier generations) DO NOT PROVE THAT RECENT PERFORMANCES ARE TAINTED (emphasis) but they suggest that SOME suspicion is reasonable."
Tobin here talks about a 10% increase in muscle mass due to steroid use which might increase HR production, but my question to him and you is if a player were to increase his muscle mass by 10% through intensive weight training and w/o any drugs, would the HR results be similar? My answer: Yes.
BTW if muscle mass is so important, shouldn't any 6'3" linebacker with only 6% body fat who could bench press 365 lbs. be able to hit say 50 HRs off major league pitching consistently for say 5 yrs.?
tuttigym
Quote: lilredrooster.
it will be the Denver Nuggets first appearance ever in the Finals
they were founded in 1967 as the Denver Larks in the ABA but changed their name to the Rockets before the 1st season
the Rockets then changed their name to the Nuggets in 1974
the Nuggets played for the final ABA Championship in 1976 losing to the New York Nets
they joined the NBA in 1976 along with 3 other teams from the ABA
1st time in the NBA Finals in 47 years - wow
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link to original post
I'd always thought the Nuggets were the former Carolina Cougars. It turns out I was mistaken all these years.
I had thought the Rockets folded and the Cougars moved to Denver. It turns out they moved to St.Louis and became the infamous Spirits.
Do you have a friend or family member or someone that you are a fan of who has been accused of using steroids to enhance athletic performance? Do you have some emotional or personal stake in this discussion of anabolic steroids?
Why do you care so much about whether people consider anabolic steroid use to be shameful behavior?
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And to answer one of your lines of questioning: obviously, if you or I or someone who is not a very good athlete takes anabolic steroids, it does not enable us to hit N home runs in the major leagues. Steroids increase muscle mass and stamina and allow quicker recovery after a period of exertion -so when elite athletes like Barry Bonds take steroids they are sometimes able to accomplish unprecedented performance levels, like 80 home runs in a season. But that does not mean that Pudge Rodriguez must certainly be able to hit 50 home runs in a season just by taking anabolic steroids.
When athletes break both federal laws and the rules of baseball by taking anabolic steroids - and do so in secrecy - they are seeking a competitive advantage over other players. The pitchers that Bonds hit all of those steroids-assisted home runs off of have a right to feel that they could have had a better career if Bonds hadn't cheated. At its core, this is a simple issue of right vs wrong; of honorable behavior vs. dishonorable behavior, of compliance with the rules vs. sneaking in secrecy to violate the rules. If you really don't understand that this is an ethics issue then no amount of yakkety-yak on this forum can help you to understand why people don't respect the athletes that used steroids. We should just all agree that we disagree and move on from this unproductive discussion.
Quote: tuttigymQuote: lilredroosterQuote: tuttigym
The outside noice that is continuous from ignorant sports writers and pundits about steroids and HR's is just flat out wrong"
tuttigym
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the link from Scientific American indicates how steroids can boost performance in MLB players
the 2nd link draws similar conclusions - from Physics Professor Roger Tobin of Tufts University
I'm sure you will call these link nonsense as you do everything else that contradicts your point of view
this will be my last post on the subject - feel free to get the last word - feel free to add ScientificAmerican.com and Professor Roger Tobin to your list of purveyors of nonsense
and please - continue to minimize the culpability of players who went so far as to break the law in their attempt to gain a cheating advantage
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/a-rod-steroids-better-athlete/
http://baseball.physics.illinois.edu/Tobin_AJP_Jan08.pdf
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Again, thanks for the links. The readings were informative but do raise some questions. Feel free to answer if you can, but I realize that for you they would be unknowable only because some questions are unanswerable.
1. A-Rod is in the HOF, but for three years he "cheated." Shouldn't he be disqualified and removed from the HOF?
2. That article specified that there were 104 named Major Leaguers on a list of drug users with A-Rod among them. Why weren't there 103 other-worldly performances from those players even in the short term?
3. I have read Tobin before and certainly do NOT consider him a "purveyor of nonsense." {BTW if I were to suggest that you or anyone else were "purveyors of nonsense," I probably would be suspended.) Somehow you along with others seem to totally discount his basic conclusions:
"Physics cannot tell us whether a particular home run was steroid-assisted or even whether an extraordinary individual performance indicates the use of illicit means. But physics, combined with physiology, can constrain the extent of performance enhancement that COULD BE (emphasis) attributed to the use of drugs.......... These results (comparing "steroid-era players to earlier generations) DO NOT PROVE THAT RECENT PERFORMANCES ARE TAINTED (emphasis) but they suggest that SOME suspicion is reasonable."
Tobin here talks about a 10% increase in muscle mass due to steroid use which might increase HR production, but my question to him and you is if a player were to increase his muscle mass by 10% through intensive weight training and w/o any drugs, would the HR results be similar? My answer: Yes.
BTW if muscle mass is so important, shouldn't any 6'3" linebacker with only 6% body fat who could bench press 365 lbs. be able to hit say 50 HRs off major league pitching consistently for say 5 yrs.?
tuttigym
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ARod isn't in the Hall, and the voting wasn't even close. And, IMO, he should never be in the Hall,
the Miami Heat are on the brink of history
no NBA team has ever lost a best of 7 playoff series after winning the first 3 games
this dates back all the way to 1947 when the NBA was called The Basketball Association of America
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Quote: lilredrooster.
the Miami Heat are on the brink of history
no NBA team has ever lost a best of 7 playoff series after winning the first 3 games
this dates back all the way to 1947 when the NBA was called The Basketball Association of America
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Vegas is smart. Not all 3-0 deficits are the same. I can’t remember for sure, but I think you could only get around 12-1 on the Celtics to win the series when they were down 3-0. I got +125 on them when they were down 3-2. They collapsed down the stretch of game 6 but
They made it by a tenth of a second.
but here's a couple recent impressive feats of athleticism by just short of 37th birthday Al Horford and 37 year old Jeff Green. Green's has always been a great athlete with monster in game dunks, at that age very impressive though. Huge block by Horford was in game 6 Miami v Boston. PJ Tucker another 37 year old career role player.
I don’t think the Heat will match up well with Jokic. But I’ve been wrong before…..
Your Golden Knights DESTROY the Stars in game 6.
South Florida fan a month ago probably could have gotten 1000-1 on the parlay of Heat and Panthers to make the finals.
the result last night was a big surprise to me - although I thought the spread of 7.5 was quite high
the Heat are one of only two eighth seeds to ever make it to the Finals
Nuggets are -360 money line and -8.5 spread on DraftKings right now and -390 and -9 on FanDuel for the 1st game on Thursday
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