General Sports Talk
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69 members have voted
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/16/sports/lebron-james-jr-bronny.html
Real baseball fight. Not the pansy pushing matches
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/reds-pirates-brawl-breaking-down-the-very-entertaining-bizarre-fight-starring-yasiel-puig-and-amir-garrett/amp/
Not sure why sports are allowed to act this way. Shouldn't the on field security and police been involved? If this happened at Walmart between employees they would all.be arrested. The reds pitcher should be arrested for battery.
Quote: GWAEThe reds pitcher should be arrested for battery.
Spoken like someone with a Pittsburgh bias.
Quote: GWAEGawd I wish the search function worked. Took me 15 min to find this thread.
Real baseball fight. Not the pansy pushing matches
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/reds-pirates-brawl-breaking-down-the-very-entertaining-bizarre-fight-starring-yasiel-puig-and-amir-garrett/amp/
Not sure why sports are allowed to act this way. Shouldn't the on field security and police been involved? If this happened at Walmart between employees they would all.be arrested. The reds pitcher should be arrested for battery.
How much chalk did you lay on the Reds in that game?
I don't blame him
it can't be much fun getting blindsided by 350 pound guys who can run pretty fast
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/24/sports/andrew-luck-retires-colts.html?action=click&module=Latest&pgtype=Homepage
Quote: lilredroosterAndrew Luck retires because of injuries - he's only 29
I don't blame him
it can't be much fun getting blindsided by 350 pound guys who can run pretty fast
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/24/sports/andrew-luck-retires-colts.html?action=click&module=Latest&pgtype=Homepage
Odd time and way to retire. Figure he was thinking hold out until age 30 or some similar goal. But took a few more hits and said, "enough of this!" and called it quits.
Reminds me of when Barry Foster tried a comeback. He lasted 2 days, didn't even cash his signing bonus check, just slid it across the desk of the owner and said, "sorry."
Quote: lilredroosterAndrew Luck retires because of injuries - he's only 29
I don't blame him
it can't be much fun getting blindsided by 350 pound guys who can run pretty fast
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/24/sports/andrew-luck-retires-colts.html?action=click&module=Latest&pgtype=Homepage
That's crazy. Not even like they are head injuries
Quote: GWAEThat's crazy. Not even like they are head injuries
that's a great thought
he should have waited until he got 3 or 4 concussions before retiring - after all - what's the big deal - 8 or 9 more hits to the head
Quote: GWAEGawd I wish the search function worked. Took me 15 min to find this thread.
Real baseball fight. Not the pansy pushing matches
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/reds-pirates-brawl-breaking-down-the-very-entertaining-bizarre-fight-starring-yasiel-puig-and-amir-garrett/amp/
Not sure why sports are allowed to act this way. Shouldn't the on field security and police been involved? If this happened at Walmart between employees they would all.be arrested. The reds pitcher should be arrested for battery.
Imagine the outrage if a Yankee Stadium security guard injured a Red Sox star while breaking up a fight. Keep in mind that a week long suspension will cost him tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars.
Quote: GWAEThat's crazy. Not even like they are head injuries
What's crazy would be not acknowledging you're too torn up to do your job. I think you have to walk a mile in his shoes. How many painful operations and rehabs has he been through in 7 years? I don't know offhand, but I'm sure his injury record is in the reports.
I played competitive basketball for 5 years, volleyball for 1, tennis for one and swam for 13. Only the swimming was good for me. By the time I was 40, I could not kneel on the ground because it was like kneeling on knife edges. I ruined my knees jumping and running when i was young. Now I have moderate to severe arthritis in my lower back, again from those jumping compressions. I live in constant pain that interrupts my sleep and stops me from doing some things.
And none of my injuries were exacerbated by huge men pounding me into the turf, twisting my limbs, or smacking me backward off my feet. If your body won't tolerate that repeated punishment, if you have a low pain threshold, or if your injuries don't heal properly, why would you continue to play?
Some guys can tolerate the tackles better than others. More muscled, denser, maybe, or able to instantly relax before impact each time so their tensed muscles don't get torn. Maybe some players heal better than Luck. Maybe even some blame should go to the offensive line that let him get that torn up - I don't know.
But for whatever reason, he's done. So if he's not there mentally, who needs him in the game? Not the Colts.
Quote: AZDuffmanOdd time and way to retire. Figure he was thinking hold out until age 30 or some similar goal. But took a few more hits and said, "enough of this!" and called it quits.
Reminds me of when Barry Foster tried a comeback. He lasted 2 days, didn't even cash his signing bonus check, just slid it across the desk of the owner and said, "sorry."
Meanwhile Tom Brady strolls into season number 20, and has only been seriously injured once. Throw in his 40 playoff games and he’s played the equivalent of more like 21 or 22 seasons.
Quote: beachbumbabsWhat's crazy would be not acknowledging you're too torn up to do your job. I think you have to walk a mile in his shoes. How many painful operations and rehabs has he been through in 7 years? I don't know offhand, but I'm sure his injury record is in the reports.
I played competitive basketball for 5 years, volleyball for 1, tennis for one and swam for 13. Only the swimming was good for me. By the time I was 40, I could not kneel on the ground because it was like kneeling on knife edges. I ruined my knees jumping and running when i was young. Now I have moderate to severe arthritis in my lower back, again from those jumping compressions. I live in constant pain that interrupts my sleep and stops me from doing some things.
And none of my injuries were exacerbated by huge men pounding me into the turf, twisting my limbs, or smacking me backward off my feet. If your body won't tolerate that repeated punishment, if you have a low pain threshold, or if your injuries don't heal properly, why would you continue to play?
Some guys can tolerate the tackles better than others. More muscled, denser, maybe, or able to instantly relax before impact each time so their tensed muscles don't get torn. Maybe some players heal better than Luck. Maybe even some blame should go to the offensive line that let him get that torn up - I don't know.
But for whatever reason, he's done. So if he's not there mentally, who needs him in the game? Not the Colts.
Very good points. I guess that it is possible that he knows he is not the same anymore. I am just surprised he didnt play the year and get "hurt" early on to collect the 21 million that he is going to lose.
Quote: billryanImagine the outrage if a Yankee Stadium security guard injured a Red Sox star while breaking up a fight. Keep in mind that a week long suspension will cost him tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars.
My point was.. and nothing to do with this being against a home town team. Why are teams allowed to fight in a game that is. It designed to do so? In an act like this one it was clearly an attempt to injure someone.
Quote: michael99000Meanwhile Tom Brady strolls into season number 20, and has only been seriously injured once.
Apples and oranges. No one in league history has had the pocket protection he's had.
Quote: GWAEWhy are teams allowed...
What the hangup? It's specifically DISallowed, based on the numerous suspensions and 5 figure fines. Would you rather he was shot dead?
Quote: GWAEGawd I wish the search function worked. Took me 15 min to find this thread.
google finds it right away - just put in the thread title then wizard of vegas FYI
Quote: beachbumbabsWhat's crazy would be not acknowledging you're too torn up to do your job. I think you have to walk a mile in his shoes. How many painful operations and rehabs has he been through in 7 years? I don't know offhand, but I'm sure his injury record is in the reports.
I played competitive basketball for 5 years, volleyball for 1, tennis for one and swam for 13. Only the swimming was good for me. By the time I was 40, I could not kneel on the ground because it was like kneeling on knife edges. I ruined my knees jumping and running when i was young. Now I have moderate to severe arthritis in my lower back, again from those jumping compressions. I live in constant pain that interrupts my sleep and stops me from doing some things.
And none of my injuries were exacerbated by huge men pounding me into the turf, twisting my limbs, or smacking me backward off my feet. If your body won't tolerate that repeated punishment, if you have a low pain threshold, or if your injuries don't heal properly, why would you continue to play?
Some guys can tolerate the tackles better than others. More muscled, denser, maybe, or able to instantly relax before impact each time so their tensed muscles don't get torn. Maybe some players heal better than Luck. Maybe even some blame should go to the offensive line that let him get that torn up - I don't know.
But for whatever reason, he's done. So if he's not there mentally, who needs him in the game? Not the Colts.
It seems to be a dirty little secret that women/girls shouldn't play sports.
OK, that's the troll version. But in terms of damage to the joints and brain, girls who play soccer wind up about as damaged as boys who play football, if not MORE so. A couple people mentioned to me that they regretted allowing their daughters to play certain sports (soccer and competitive skiing) because it messed up their bodies, so I looked it up.
Sure enough...
https://www.pressherald.com/2019/01/13/girls-soccer-players-not-football-players-at-greatest-risk-for-concussions/
Hopefully, I'm staying in bounds, but I think this is a case where cultural/political trends cause us to do stupid stuff. I'm actually very much in favor of girls playing sports. But it should be done intelligently, based on the real world.
I suspect this information isn't circulated because we are supposed to live in a fantasy land where there is no difference between the genders. Ironically, this exposes women to a good bit of harm.
Quote: FaceApples and oranges. No one in league history has had the pocket protection he's had.
Couldn’t really see from that link what you were trying to say. More flags thrown when he gets touched than other qb’s? If not, modern analytics suggest sacks, hurries, hits are more-so quarterback stats than they are offensive line or defensive line stats.
Quote: FaceApples and oranges. No one in league history has had the pocket protection he's had.
Two guys, playing the same position, in the same league, at the same time, under the same set of QB protective rules. I wouldn’t say apples to oranges.
And Brady played for about ten years prior to Luck coming into the league , and during those years he did not yet have the QB friendly roughing the passer rules, or the strict enforcement of below the knee and above the neck contact.
And as for offensive linemen quality, during Brady’s 20 years of playing he’s had a grand total of 1 O-Lineman who was named All Pro and that was Logan Mankins who earned that honor one year (2010).
Quote: FaceWhat the hangup? It's specifically DISallowed, based on the numerous suspensions and 5 figure fines. Would you rather he was shot dead?
I know it is disallowed and fines are given. But why is it allowed legally? My point is, this is employment and if it happened at a normal job there would be arrests.
Asking about shot dead is quite a bit of an exaggeration.
Quote: RigondeauxIt seems to be a dirty little secret that women/girls shouldn't play sports.
OK, that's the troll version. But in terms of damage to the joints and brain, girls who play soccer wind up about as damaged as boys who play football, if not MORE so. A couple people mentioned to me that they regretted allowing their daughters to play certain sports (soccer and competitive skiing) because it messed up their bodies, so I looked it up.
Sure enough...
https://www.pressherald.com/2019/01/13/girls-soccer-players-not-football-players-at-greatest-risk-for-concussions/
Hopefully, I'm staying in bounds, but I think this is a case where cultural/political trends cause us to do stupid stuff. I'm actually very much in favor of girls playing sports. But it should be done intelligently, based on the real world.
I suspect this information isn't circulated because we are supposed to live in a fantasy land where there is no difference between the genders. Ironically, this exposes women to a good bit of harm.
In my sons soccer league heading the ball is not allowed. If the ball touches head/face it is a free kick for the other team.
Quote: mcallister3200Couldn’t really see from that link what you were trying to say.
Being a smartass, pointing out that while every QB in history had 5-7 guys protecting him, bitchmade Brady has had 70+ at all times.
Quote: GWAEI know it is disallowed and fines are given. But why is it allowed legally? My point is, this is employment and if it happened at a normal job there would be arrests.
Asking about shot dead is quite a bit of an exaggeration.
Ah. Well that's because the employer has chosen not to.
There's plenty of examples of legal ramifications for on field activities, McSorely probably being the most infamous. But who in their right mind is going to make it easier to lose a multi million dollar investment?
Hell, I bet McSorely wouldn't have seen more than a penalty box if he was still Gretzky's insurance when he lost his mind. You think a little thing like the American justice system is gonna stop a billionaire from getting what he wants?
Whatever harm acting like an animal causes the owner is much less than the harm of losing that player to punishment. Change that dynamic and you'll never see an argument again.
Quote: GWAEIn my sons soccer league heading the ball is not allowed. If the ball touches head/face it is a free kick for the other team.
I hope they get participation trophies too. LOL
Quote: beachbumbabsWhat's crazy would be not acknowledging you're too torn up to do your job.
One man's crazy is an entire culture's do it or starve =p
Quote: FaceAh. Well that's because the employer has chosen not to.
that is false. Whenever there is a criminal act the employer plays no role in whether the police file charges. Maybe the on field security since they are employees but the on field police can and should take control.
Quote: DRichI hope they get participation trophies too. LOL
IMO participation trophies for 3 and 4 year old kids are a good thing. They really do enjoy them and they don't understand winning and losing yet anyways. Sons 5 year old baseball team plays for real trophies and the joy they had from winning the championship this year was non existent. They didn't care or understand. It was more of a thrill for us coaches. No my other sons 7/8 year old team also won the championship and they were really into it and completely understood what was going on. I think around that age is when it does matter so I think organizations have it right. Just my opinion from being a coach for the last 5 years.
Quote: GWAEthat is false. Whenever there is a criminal act the employer plays no role in whether the police file charges.
You're right, I was thinking more why they never get in trouble.
But near as I can tell, battery requires a victim and it's the victim who presses charges. An assault case isn't a one and done. Who's going to give up starts at 5-6 figures per and fly to Kansas City a couple times to go to court, all because some punk slapped you?
It's much more (insert every positive adjective here) to just take his number. You'll see him again.
Disturbing the peace and whatnot, yeah... you do that and that cop and his chief are never working in that town again.
Quote: GWAEI know it is disallowed and fines are given. But why is it allowed legally? My point is, this is employment and if it happened at a normal job there would be arrests.
Asking about shot dead is quite a bit of an exaggeration.
For there to be an arrest, someone has to press charges. Was there a victim? Is that victim willing to come back to town for a grand jury or trial?
Imagine a NY Cop, assigned to protecting the team, the stadium and the peace making an arrest or putting a Yankee in a chokehold during a fight with another player? Do you think such a move might be career suicide?
Quote: billryanFor there to be an arrest, someone has to press charges. Was there a victim? Is that victim willing to come back to town for a grand jury or trial?
Imagine a NY Cop, assigned to protecting the team, the stadium and the peace making an arrest or putting a Yankee in a chokehold during a fight with another player? Do you think such a move might be career suicide?
I suppose.. maybe that is why they just let if go. The politics is not worth it to them.
my ignorance is showing as I had no idea there has to be someone to press charges. I thought the police were able to do that on their own especially when they witness it. What about when you watch cops and there is a domestic and they arrest both even though neither one wants it? I have heard where charges were dropped later because the victim won't cooperate.
Quote: mcallister3200Participation trophies probably better than what happens in youth sports a lot of places there isn’t. Youth sports in a lot of places are the most rigged sports there has ever been, forget point shaving scandals or Donaghy. Just crazy sports parents with money effectively buying the best players/championships, forget where the kids actually live within the region or competing for it. Loading ringer teams with players to buy championships for 6 year olds. Sports parents can be psychotic. AAU basketball and little league world series are completely f-cked up.
you are not wrong there. We are going to have umps this year at the 8 year old coach pitch level where all 8 teams make the playoffs. It has always been coach makes the calls but last year we had multiple games that lead to some arguments so the league decided to raise the price $8 per kid to pay for the umps. Granted last year in the playoffs one of our umps sucked (they are high school kids) and didnt know the correct call on a play. It involved a person scoring from 3rd on a inning ending 4-6-3 DP. Yes these damn 7 year olds are good enough to turn a double play WTF. The ump counted the run because he scored before the runner at 1st was out. I knew it was wrong and the other team argued. I just sat on the bench and let them hash it out.
Quote: GWAEVery good points. I guess that it is possible that he knows he is not the same anymore. I am just surprised he didnt play the year and get "hurt" early on to collect the 21 million that he is going to lose.
pro football is basically an entirely different game then it was in the 80s or 90s
the players keep getting bigger, stronger and faster
it's easier to see in the NBA where so many players are dunking with their head at the height of the rim - during the Oscar Robertson era if there was a dunk for almost all of them they only got their wrist over the rim- now high schoolers are doing unbelievable dunks
in the NFL now there are lots of 300 plus pound monsters who are very quick
they can do a lot of damage - a player can build up his muscle to protect himself - but he can't build up his bone density
I also did a lot of BMX racing in middle school, where you only got a trophy if you finished in the top 3. I did win one big ass trophy at the end of one of the seasons because I got first in that race. It was a big feller, too, like bigly yuuuuge. Doubt it's still around, might have to ask my parents if they still have it somewhere (I think there's actually a chance my parents have it in storage).
Quote: RSI always got participation trophies in little league sports stuff, but back then we just called them trophies not participation trophies. I thought it was pretty cool, something I always looked forward to at the end of the year. The last time I got one of those, I was probably 12 or 13?
I also did a lot of BMX racing in middle school, where you only got a trophy if you finished in the top 3. I did win one big ass trophy at the end of one of the seasons because I got first in that race. It was a big feller, too, like bigly yuuuuge. Doubt it's still around, might have to ask my parents if they still have it somewhere (I think there's actually a chance my parents have it in storage).
You might be surprised what they have still. Just found out last month that my parents still have my 100k baseball cards. I have assumed all these years that they were gone. Haven't gone through them but I know I had tons of bonds and Clemens rookie cards. Doubt they are worth anything though.
Quote: RigondeauxIt seems to be a dirty little secret that women/girls shouldn't play sports.
OK, that's the troll version. But in terms of damage to the joints and brain, girls who play soccer wind up about as damaged as boys who play football, if not MORE so. A couple people mentioned to me that they regretted allowing their daughters to play certain sports (soccer and competitive skiing) because it messed up their bodies, so I looked it up.
Sure enough...
https://www.pressherald.com/2019/01/13/girls-soccer-players-not-football-players-at-greatest-risk-for-concussions/
Hopefully, I'm staying in bounds, but I think this is a case where cultural/political trends cause us to do stupid stuff. I'm actually very much in favor of girls playing sports. But it should be done intelligently, based on the real world.
I suspect this information isn't circulated because we are supposed to live in a fantasy land where there is no difference between the genders. Ironically, this exposes women to a good bit of harm.
Meh. I think any generalization of that type is probably overstated at best.
I've had 3 concussions. None were in sport. Same with the broken scapula, and the shattered elbow.
One concussion was while dancing onstage, I was supposed to faint in the arms of the star. He then would toss me to his posse and they would revive me. It was fine in rehearsal, but opening night he let go early and dropped me on my head. Apparently it rang like a melon and could be heard over the orchestra. The posse had to drag me offstage by 2 legs and an arm. I'm told it got a laugh.
Another was pulling a full sheet of 3/4" ply off a high shelf by myself. It came down hard and heavy and I bonked myself.
The third was working an indoor/outdoor bar. At closing the big doors between the porch and inside had to be slammed to catch. I slammed the door and an 80 lb. speaker came off the wall onto my head, took me to the floor.
Only sports injuries I've had while playing were a jammed finger in 10th grade softball (the reason I remember it was, I showed it to the AAD and asked to have it treated, he said, nah, it's just jammed, grabbed it twisted, pulled, and broke it proving it wasn't broken. It's still deformed.)
And I tore my calf muscle playing doubles tennis in a corporation contest in my late 30s. Crutches for 6 weeks.
But I think it's a question of body type, too, including whether male or female, on injury-prone. So to that extent I agree. Women with long limbs and short bodies and not much body fat are better suited to running and jumping. Women with long torsos and broad shoulders (like me) should not do the running/jumping stuff. Bicycle, maybe, certainly swimming, tennis is ok.
Quote: FaceOne man's crazy is an entire culture's do it or starve =p
Well, then there's you, Face. You don't know from quit. :)
Rainy morning project: Go thru them and check on Ebay. One never knows.Quote: GWAE. Haven't gone through them but I know I had tons of bonds and Clemens rookie cards. Doubt they are worth anything though.
Quote: billryanFor there to be an arrest, someone has to press charges. Was there a victim? Is that victim willing to come back to town for a grand jury or trial?
Imagine a NY Cop, assigned to protecting the team, the stadium and the peace making an arrest or putting a Yankee in a chokehold during a fight with another player? Do you think such a move might be career suicide?
There’s no rule that you need someone to press charges for there to be an arrest. Especially if it’s all on videotape.
Quote: RigondeauxIt seems to be a dirty little secret that women/girls shouldn't play sports.
OK, that's the troll version. But in terms of damage to the joints and brain, girls who play soccer wind up about as damaged as boys who play football, if not MORE so. A couple people mentioned to me that they regretted allowing their daughters to play certain sports (soccer and competitive skiing) because it messed up their bodies, so I looked it up.
Sure enough...
https://www.pressherald.com/2019/01/13/girls-soccer-players-not-football-players-at-greatest-risk-for-concussions/
Hopefully, I'm staying in bounds, but I think this is a case where cultural/political trends cause us to do stupid stuff. I'm actually very much in favor of girls playing sports. But it should be done intelligently, based on the real world.
I suspect this information isn't circulated because we are supposed to live in a fantasy land where there is no difference between the genders. Ironically, this exposes women to a good bit of harm.
I have heard that soccer causes more concussions than football, it might be that the girls are weighing this?
IMHO, part of this is boys grow up learning how to "take a bump" better than girls. Or is it the "mix" you get? Are the more athletic girls just bigger and tougher than the smaller ones than the bigger guys are to the smaller guys? Goes back to taking a bump.
We will probably over generations eliminate all sports with physical contact because "someone might get hurt."
Quote: AZDuffmanI have heard that soccer causes more concussions than football, it might be that the girls are weighing this?
IMHO, part of this is boys grow up learning how to "take a bump" better than girls. Or is it the "mix" you get? Are the more athletic girls just bigger and tougher than the smaller ones than the bigger guys are to the smaller guys? Goes back to taking a bump.
We will probably over generations eliminate all sports with physical contact because "someone might get hurt."
I don't think it has anything to do with the learning how. If anything girls would learn it better since at the young age they actually pay attention opposed to boys who don't even know a coach is talking. My guess would be more on how the brain developed or how the skull is. I wonder if there is a difference there.
Quote: unJonThere’s no rule that you need someone to press charges for there to be an arrest. Especially if it’s all on videotape.
What's on video? Based on that video, who do you arrest, considering the circumstances. What jury convicts anyone of anything based on that video? I just don't see anything that fines and suspensions can't handle sufficiently.
I was just clearing up the misinformation about needing someone to press charges.Quote: billryanWhat's on video? Based on that video, who do you arrest, considering the circumstances. What jury convicts anyone of anything based on that video? I just don't see anything that fines and suspensions can't handle sufficiently.
Quote: mcallister3200Remember when Dave Winfield got arrested for hitting a bird throwing a baseball?
I remember that game. I think the incident happened between innings in warmups. As I recall the charges were dropped because it was considered an accident.
