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AZDuffman
AZDuffman
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April 10th, 2020 at 1:41:43 PM permalink
Quote: rxwine

We would have had test kits ready early. The stockpile should have been evaluated as well and the federal government should have had the states report their needs, and manufacturing should have been initiated earlier based on a shortfall. It's up to the federal government to lead in a national emergency, even if the states have their own responsibilities.



IOW, you would have done next to nothing. Just pretend you would have known what to do based on hindsight.
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darkoz
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April 10th, 2020 at 1:47:44 PM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

IOW, you would have done next to nothing. Just pretend you would have known what to do based on hindsight.



If social distancing had been called for earlier

1) lives would have been saved

However

2) everyone would have resisted and cried fowl.

Being truthful here, it was a no-win call for anybody who might have been in charge
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
rxwine
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April 10th, 2020 at 1:49:00 PM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

IOW, you would have done next to nothing. Just pretend you would have known what to do based on hindsight.



I took your question seriously, which is apparently way more than it deserved.
There's no secret. Just know what you're talking about before you open your mouth.
AZDuffman
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April 10th, 2020 at 2:07:33 PM permalink
Quote: rxwine

I took your question seriously, which is apparently way more than it deserved.



Your answer is like that of a doctor who looks at the ER report two days later and demands to know why the ER doc on duty did not do some obscure thing. The second doc had all the time in the world to think about it, the first was in life and death.

It is EASY to say "should have done this" when you know what happened after.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
AZDuffman
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April 10th, 2020 at 2:09:04 PM permalink
Quote: darkoz

If social distancing had been called for earlier

1) lives would have been saved

However

2) everyone would have resisted and cried fowl.

Being truthful here, it was a no-win call for anybody who might have been in charge



Exactly. We could all be put in an individual pod like a prison cell with no contact. But it all has to be balanced.

Luckily we are at about 10% of the model prediction. We are doing flipping good.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
rxwine
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April 10th, 2020 at 2:10:21 PM permalink
Quote: darkoz

If social distancing had been called for earlier

1) lives would have been saved

However

2) everyone would have resisted and cried fowl.

Being truthful here, it was a no-win call for anybody who might have been in charge



I also thought "buy more ventilators" would be an unlikely early call because of the expense. But everything else was completely reasonable and not unusually costly or behavior driven prevention.

The alarm should have been going off for ventilators though when the reports from Italy started coming in.
There's no secret. Just know what you're talking about before you open your mouth.
darkoz
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April 10th, 2020 at 2:49:17 PM permalink
The irony is that if serious early prevention had occurred and worked so well that no significant illnesses occurred that person (regardless of who or what party) would have been accused of a false alarm and wasteful spending

I read an interview years ago with the main proponent of Y2K. He claimed everyone blames him for a mass hysteria over something that never happened

He claims it never happened because people believed him and took successfulmeasures to prevent it. He claims he saved the world but no one gives him credit for it

To this day that conundrum haunts me.

What would you do? Raise hell, save the world and be called a scamming liar who wasted everyone time.

Or just let the world burn
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
AZDuffman
AZDuffman
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April 10th, 2020 at 3:08:02 PM permalink
Quote: darkoz

The irony is that if serious early prevention had occurred and worked so well that no significant illnesses occurred that person (regardless of who or what party) would have been accused of a false alarm and wasteful spending

I read an interview years ago with the main proponent of Y2K. He claimed everyone blames him for a mass hysteria over something that never happened

He claims it never happened because people believed him and took successfulmeasures to prevent it. He claims he saved the world but no one gives him credit for it

To this day that conundrum haunts me.

What would you do? Raise hell, save the world and be called a scamming liar who wasted everyone time.

Or just let the world burn



I always wonder on Y2K. On one hand, lots of work was done, some of which will blow up in about 10-15 years. OTOH, we knew about much of it in 1970 when 30 year financial products were giving error messages. I was the manager so got all the letters from customers demanding to know what we were doing, at least one an internal customer, our own company!

IMHO this scare is teaching what should have been learned during Y2K. Have a few weeks to few months of food in the pantry. Have 1-3 months income in the emergency fund.

That is the big one. We saw articles a few times a year that 40% of people cannot handle a $500 emergency. I saw the food bank lines in CA. Surely there are more elsewhere, but these high-cost places are the epicenter. Will the public learn?
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
rxwine
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April 10th, 2020 at 3:11:56 PM permalink
Quote: darkoz

The irony is that if serious early prevention had occurred and worked so well that no significant illnesses occurred that person (regardless of who or what party) would have been accused of a false alarm and wasteful spending

I read an interview years ago with the main proponent of Y2K. He claimed everyone blames him for a mass hysteria over something that never happened

He claims it never happened because people believed him and took successfulmeasures to prevent it. He claims he saved the world but no one gives him credit for it

To this day that conundrum haunts me.

What would you do? Raise hell, save the world and be called a scamming liar who wasted everyone time.

Or just let the world burn



Same thing I think might happen with reduction of tobacco consumption. Too much success leads to future generations thinking that cancer connection was overblown. They'll bring back the Marlboro Man when people have forgotten how 5 of them died.

Quote:

The use of the Marlboro Man campaign had very significant and immediate effects on sales. In 1955, when the Marlboro Man campaign was started, sales were at $5 billion. By 1957, sales were at $20 billion, representing a 300% increase within two years. Philip Morris easily overcame growing health concerns through the Marlboro Man campaign, highlighting the success as well as the tobacco industryís strong ability to use mass marketing to influence the public.[23]
The immediate success of the Marlboro Man campaign led to heavy imitation. Old Golds adopted the tagline marking it a cigarette for "independent thinkers". Chesterfield depicted cowboy and other masculine occupations to match their tagline: "Men of America" smoke Chesterfields.[24]

There's no secret. Just know what you're talking about before you open your mouth.
tringlomane
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April 10th, 2020 at 4:02:33 PM permalink
Quote: darkoz

The irony is that if serious early prevention had occurred and worked so well that no significant illnesses occurred that person (regardless of who or what party) would have been accused of a false alarm and wasteful spending

I read an interview years ago with the main proponent of Y2K. He claimed everyone blames him for a mass hysteria over something that never happened

He claims it never happened because people believed him and took successfulmeasures to prevent it. He claims he saved the world but no one gives him credit for it

To this day that conundrum haunts me.

What would you do? Raise hell, save the world and be called a scamming liar who wasted everyone time.

Or just let the world burn



This describes how a public health response is supposed to go. You stop the epidemic and most of the public complains on how much money and time was wasted on it because so many fewer people were afflicted than initially expected. Because the measures worked! Lol People like Fauci and Birx have thankless jobs.
billryan
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April 10th, 2020 at 4:22:45 PM permalink
Quote: darkoz

The irony is that if serious early prevention had occurred and worked so well that no significant illnesses occurred that person (regardless of who or what party) would have been accused of a false alarm and wasteful spending

I read an interview years ago with the main proponent of Y2K. He claimed everyone blames him for a mass hysteria over something that never happened

He claims it never happened because people believed him and took successfulmeasures to prevent it. He claims he saved the world but no one gives him credit for it

To this day that conundrum haunts me.

What would you do? Raise hell, save the world and be called a scamming liar who wasted everyone time.

Or just let the world burn



Option 3. Let the world start to burn but then introduce a miracle solution. If it works, you can claim the credit. What do you have to lose?
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
SOOPOO
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April 10th, 2020 at 5:29:40 PM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman



That is the big one. We saw articles a few times a year that 40% of people cannot handle a $500 emergency. I saw the food bank lines in CA. Surely there are more elsewhere, but these high-cost places are the epicenter. Will the public learn?



Learn what? That if I don't have a dollar to my name I'll be able to get free food by waiting in line? Trust me, the public is well aware already.
lilredrooster
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April 11th, 2020 at 1:56:19 AM permalink
Geniuses burning cell towers in Britain
guess why they are doing this
go ahead, guess

you guessed it
conspiracy theorists are trolling and spreading lies that 5G is causing the virus to spread





https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/10/technology/coronavirus-5g-uk.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage
Please don't feed the trolls
tringlomane
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April 11th, 2020 at 2:32:18 AM permalink
Quote: lilredrooster

Geniuses burning cell towers in Britain
guess why they are doing this
go ahead, guess

you guessed it
conspiracy theorists are trolling and spreading lies that 5G is causing the virus to spread





https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/10/technology/coronavirus-5g-uk.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage



I hate the internet. And I wouldn't be shocked if the UK had the most deaths per capita by the time this was over.
ChumpChange
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April 11th, 2020 at 3:33:57 AM permalink
WC Fields should be telling us how 5G spreads the coronavirus.

W.C. Fields - The Diner Sketch - YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOHGr8r5Cs4
rawtuff
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April 11th, 2020 at 4:11:46 AM permalink
Quote: lilredrooster

Geniuses burning cell towers in Britain
guess why they are doing this
go ahead, guess

you guessed it
conspiracy theorists are trolling and spreading lies that 5G is causing the virus to spread





https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/10/technology/coronavirus-5g-uk.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage



I think this conspiracy theory goes more like this:

A vaccine for covid 19 will come with a digital identity that needs 5g to work,
the lockdown is done so there will be 5g installations done smoothly.
The call for social distancing is so there will be no protests.

You get the vaccine you lose your self totally and get controlled.

Not that it sounds too much more logical, but at least they aren't claiming a direct connection between 5g towers and C19 spread afaik.
Tits are good, but the most important thing is the soul.
darkoz
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April 11th, 2020 at 5:22:16 AM permalink
Quote: rawtuff

Quote: lilredrooster

Geniuses burning cell towers in Britain
guess why they are doing this
go ahead, guess

you guessed it
conspiracy theorists are trolling and spreading lies that 5G is causing the virus to spread





https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/10/technology/coronavirus-5g-uk.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage



I think this conspiracy theory goes more like this:

A vaccine for covid 19 will come with a digital identity that needs 5g to work,
the lockdown is done so there will be 5g installations done smoothly.
The call for social distancing is so there will be no protests.

You get the vaccine you lose your self totally and get controlled.

Not that it sounds too much more logical, but at least they aren't claiming a direct connection between 5g towers and C19 spread afaik.



No, that's too sophisticated

They actually believe Covid-19 is either caused by the 5g or there is another theory that it emits a radiation that weakens our immune systems helping Covid-19 to spread rapidly

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/08/tech/5g-coronavirus-conspiracy-theory-trnd/index.html
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rawtuff
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April 11th, 2020 at 6:27:43 AM permalink
Quote: darkoz



No, that's too sophisticated

They actually believe Covid-19 is either caused by the 5g or there is another theory that it emits a radiation that weakens our immune systems helping Covid-19 to spread rapidly

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/08/tech/5g-coronavirus-conspiracy-theory-trnd/index.html



Well, that'll be way too feeble of a theory since everyone, even the most gullible, know or should know there are like 5 countries with live 5G towers and like 200 countries affected by C19, many of the most affected regions don't even have towers so there is not even an observable correlation, let alone causation.
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AZDuffman
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April 11th, 2020 at 6:54:44 AM permalink
Quote: SOOPOO

Learn what? That if I don't have a dollar to my name I'll be able to get free food by waiting in line? Trust me, the public is well aware already.



Learn that you have to be better prepared. The Depression generation prepped. They kept money for an emergency, and their pantries were full. They lived fairly frugal. They reused things and knew how to get by.

Some of the Baby Boomers saw this and emulated parts of it. They saw recessions every few years. They knew to "save up" if a known bad event like a strike was on the horizon. But over the years they drifted away from the good habits.

Those born after 1977 or so never saw real bad times, never saw a really bad recession. "The Great Recession" was not that at all compared to 1982, where 100 year old industries just collapsed. There was not 20% prime rates and 15% inflation.

I have been near broke but even then I always had some emergency money to bail me out. After a brush with BK I lived like a monk for years to get out of debt and get saved up. I still live like half a monk, keeping a modest home and car. The kids on some pods I worked on, I could not believe how they spent money. It came up once and a girl told me the general attitude was "if you are deep in student loan debt you live for today since it will be forever before you get ahead."

Those people had better have learned as I am sure she was among that group that could not handle a $400 emergency. Hopefully the masses will now start copy canning at the least, and putting $15 a week aside. In 3-4 years they will be in shape to last if this kind of thing happens again.

But alas, they will not learn. A few will of course. The rest will be buying lottery tickets instead of putting emergency funds aside and eating takeaway instead of learning to make their food dollar last.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
darkoz
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April 11th, 2020 at 7:09:15 AM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

Learn that you have to be better prepared. The Depression generation prepped. They kept money for an emergency, and their pantries were full. They lived fairly frugal. They reused things and knew how to get by.

Some of the Baby Boomers saw this and emulated parts of it. They saw recessions every few years. They knew to "save up" if a known bad event like a strike was on the horizon. But over the years they drifted away from the good habits.

Those born after 1977 or so never saw real bad times, never saw a really bad recession. "The Great Recession" was not that at all compared to 1982, where 100 year old industries just collapsed. There was not 20% prime rates and 15% inflation.

I have been near broke but even then I always had some emergency money to bail me out. After a brush with BK I lived like a monk for years to get out of debt and get saved up. I still live like half a monk, keeping a modest home and car. The kids on some pods I worked on, I could not believe how they spent money. It came up once and a girl told me the general attitude was "if you are deep in student loan debt you live for today since it will be forever before you get ahead."

Those people had better have learned as I am sure she was among that group that could not handle a $400 emergency. Hopefully the masses will now start copy canning at the least, and putting $15 a week aside. In 3-4 years they will be in shape to last if this kind of thing happens again.

But alas, they will not learn. A few will of course. The rest will be buying lottery tickets instead of putting emergency funds aside and eating takeaway instead of learning to make their food dollar last.



Every Jew knows to invest in diamonds for a rainy pogrom, Spanish Inquisition or Holocaust

Edit: Being Jewish myself that's just one history lesson takeaway
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GDBONES
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April 11th, 2020 at 8:23:35 AM permalink
Anyone have any thoughts on reopening the country? When you think that this all started in America with just one person and now we will be starting with at least 30,000 people, even if we made a huge effort with aggressive testing and contact tracking it looks like it will be an endless cycle of shut downs. I'm going to have to go with the July 4th, 2021 when a vaccine finally becomes available.
billryan
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April 11th, 2020 at 8:41:20 AM permalink
If we reopen May 1st, we will see about 100,000 dead from the virus. If we stay closed until June 1st, we will see about 60,000.
To me, that's not an acceptable trade. Hopefully,someone will be able to convince our leaders.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
darkoz
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April 11th, 2020 at 8:48:37 AM permalink
There is a drug that may be coming soon. I'm talking weeks

Waiting for the update on clinical trials

Not anything spoken at this forum. I will probably create a thread for it.

Seems promising to the point of us being able to reopen without fear of dying
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Keeneone
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April 11th, 2020 at 9:12:07 AM permalink
Quote: darkoz

There is a drug that may be coming soon. I'm talking weeks

Waiting for the update on clinical trials

Not anything spoken at this forum. I will probably create a thread for it.

Seems promising to the point of us being able to reopen without fear of dying


This exisiting thread seems like a good place to post about it:

https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/general/34521-the-cure-is-it-over/12/
unJon
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April 11th, 2020 at 9:20:55 AM permalink
Quote: darkoz

There is a drug that may be coming soon. I'm talking weeks

Waiting for the update on clinical trials

Not anything spoken at this forum. I will probably create a thread for it.

Seems promising to the point of us being able to reopen without fear of dying



You talking about the vaccine developed at University of Pitt? Or a treatment drug?
The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong; but that is the way to bet.
darkoz
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April 11th, 2020 at 9:34:35 AM permalink
Quote: unJon

You talking about the vaccine developed at University of Pitt? Or a treatment drug?



Treatment drug
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darkoz
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April 11th, 2020 at 9:37:08 AM permalink
Quote: Keeneone

This exisiting thread seems like a good place to post about it:

https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/general/34521-the-cure-is-it-over/12/



Thanks. I was looking for that

That thread became a bit political. I'm not sure if I want to just start a dedicated thread

I guess the mods probably prefer me just to add to that one.

Maybe they can chime in

Again I am waiting for a new article about recent results. If it's as promising as it looks it deserves it own thread imho
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LuckyPhow
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beachbumbabs
April 11th, 2020 at 9:51:23 AM permalink
Quote: darkoz

I read an interview years ago with the main proponent of Y2K. He claimed everyone blames him for a mass hysteria over something that never happened



Here is Time Magazine's 20-year appreciation.
Quote: Y2K -- 20 Years On...

20 Years Later, the Y2K Bug Seems Like a JokeóBecause Those Behind the Scenes Took It Seriously



I was very involved with Florida's Y2K preparations. As all the executive agencies were scrambling, someone asked whether anyone knew if the Judiciary was onto Y2K or not. It wasn't. Worse, Y2K for Florida's judicial system was 6 months earlier (1-Jul-1999) because the whole judicial system depended on its ability to schedule court dates 6 months out.

Florida almost broke its judicial system because people charged with a crime in Florida can demand a "speedy" trial. If the court cannot put those folk in front of a jury by a date certain (in statute), then the case is a nol-pros (administratively dismissed). Murderers could have gotten away scott free because of a computer date problem.
AZDuffman
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Forager
April 11th, 2020 at 10:27:31 AM permalink
Quote: billryan

If we reopen May 1st, we will see about 100,000 dead from the virus. If we stay closed until June 1st, we will see about 60,000.
To me, that's not an acceptable trade. Hopefully,someone will be able to convince our leaders.



Actually it is a very acceptable trade when you are talking another $1 trillion in cost, and probably more.

Then add in it seems if you die from it you probably had less than a year left in any case.

GET AMERICA OPEN!
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rxwine
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April 11th, 2020 at 10:36:29 AM permalink
Quote: darkoz

Treatment drug



There's suppose to be some 60 drugs they are looking at. Other than a year from now if there is a vaccine, it shouldn't be much more than 2 months before we hear something more definite about most of them.
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billryan
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April 11th, 2020 at 10:42:43 AM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

Actually it is a very acceptable trade when you are talking another $1 trillion in cost, and probably more.

Then add in it seems if you die from it you probably had less than a year left in any case.

GET AMERICA OPEN!



So you think the life of an American isn't worth $25,000. Which of your family members are you willing to lose to gain $25,000 in GDP?
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
AZDuffman
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ForagerSanchoPanza
April 11th, 2020 at 10:59:34 AM permalink
Quote: billryan

So you think the life of an American isn't worth $25,000. Which of your family members are you willing to lose to gain $25,000 in GDP?



$1 Trillion divided by 40000 is $25 Million.

That is unacceptable.

OPEN IT UP!
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darkoz
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April 11th, 2020 at 11:09:57 AM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

$1 Trillion divided by 40000 is $25 Million.

That is unacceptable.

OPEN IT UP!



Well, as long as your family members are worth less than $25 million, I guess that's a good trade.

Me, personally, if you offered me $25 million or even $25 trillion for the life of my mom, dad, daughter, etc I would not accept it
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rxwine
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April 11th, 2020 at 11:22:22 AM permalink
Quote: darkoz

Well, as long as your family members are worth less than $25 million, I guess that's a good trade.



25 million is probably what the lawyer would sue a big entity for in wrongful death

Quote:

Wrongful death cases often arise when there is evidence to show that a death would not have occurred but for the misconduct of another.



Of course, the settlement would be less. I can't mention a case where a person was cheered by many for getting a million dollar settlement, for basically being insulted. Dying ought to be worth more. One would think.

That said, I don't think there is really a good solution for this whole thing. It's pain either way. It's rock and a hard place.
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AZDuffman
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Forager
April 11th, 2020 at 11:27:35 AM permalink
Quote: darkoz

Well, as long as your family members are worth less than $25 million, I guess that's a good trade.

Me, personally, if you offered me $25 million or even $25 trillion for the life of my mom, dad, daughter, etc I would not accept it



It doesn't work that way. We have no idea if it will be that many people, or who they will be. You cannot go around saying "THERE IS NO PRICE ON A LIFE!" At some point a leader has to do a cost/benefit.

OPEN IT UP!
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unJon
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April 11th, 2020 at 12:28:03 PM permalink
Quote: darkoz

Well, as long as your family members are worth less than $25 million, I guess that's a good trade.

Me, personally, if you offered me $25 million or even $25 trillion for the life of my mom, dad, daughter, etc I would not accept it



Are you against people driving cars? They kill many people. But also boost the economy. We could write a similar equation about the cost per life for driving.
The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong; but that is the way to bet.
darkoz
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April 11th, 2020 at 12:43:37 PM permalink
Quote: unJon

Are you against people driving cars? They kill many people. But also boost the economy. We could write a similar equation about the cost per life for driving.



These equating of deaths is something I see often.

The hospitals in NYC and many other states are currently overrun due to Coronavirus. So many people are coming to deaths door due to the disease

Yes people die from Auto accidents. But they don't equate.

Once car accidents overrun our nation's hospitals, once auto accidents kill 700+ per day in just NYC and add 10,000 hospitalized in two weeks, I guarantee then, yes, you will see a public outcry for new rules about cars.

Don't believe me? Do we use Asbestos products anymore? Are there restrictions on lead paint? I am certain there are many things that were good for us that we eliminated because of health issues.

So when cars get to that inundation level at hospitals like Coronavirus then let's start comparisons
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AZDuffman
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Forager
April 11th, 2020 at 12:54:57 PM permalink
Quote: darkoz

These equating of deaths is something I see often.

The hospitals in NYC and many other states are currently overrun due to Coronavirus. So many people are coming to deaths door due to the disease

Yes people die from Auto accidents. But they don't equate.

Once car accidents overrun our nation's hospitals, once auto accidents kill 700+ per day in just NYC and add 10,000 hospitalized in two weeks, I guarantee then, yes, you will see a public outcry for new rules about cars.

Don't believe me? Do we use Asbestos products anymore? Are there restrictions on lead paint? I am certain there are many things that were good for us that we eliminated because of health issues.

So when cars get to that inundation level at hospitals like Coronavirus then let's start comparisons



Restricting lead paint is not closing an economy and possibly causing a depression. You can say there is no price too high for a life, but leaders do not have that luxury. In reality we make cost/benefit choices daily.

OPEN IT UP!
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darkoz
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April 11th, 2020 at 1:07:52 PM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

Restricting lead paint is not closing an economy and possibly causing a depression. You can say there is no price too high for a life, but leaders do not have that luxury. In reality we make cost/benefit choices daily.

OPEN IT UP!



Apparently leaders do have that luxury

They already made decisions

Guess what, we are shutdown.
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AZDuffman
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April 11th, 2020 at 1:13:32 PM permalink
Quote: darkoz

Apparently leaders do have that luxury

They already made decisions

Guess what, we are shutdown.



And we will soon be opened up.

Leaders had to consider things very careful.

Every day now it is more and more clear the models were way off. Time to open for business.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
darkoz
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April 11th, 2020 at 1:26:42 PM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

And we will soon be opened up.

Leaders had to consider things very careful.

Every day now it is more and more clear the models were way off. Time to open for business.



I am certain we will open eventually

What estimate do you give?

You think we will be open in April? (Doubtful)

May? (Possible)

June (more likely)
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rxwine
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April 11th, 2020 at 1:31:19 PM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

And we will soon be opened up.

Leaders had to consider things very careful.

Every day now it is more and more clear the models were way off. Time to open for business.



Just as hurricane tracking adds new data multiple times a day, the path alters. Would people rather see no data prediction at all? Sorry, you've no better option than random luck without them.
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SanchoPanza
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April 11th, 2020 at 1:31:53 PM permalink
Quote: darkoz

The hospitals in NYC and many other states are currently overrun due to Coronavirus. So many people are coming to deaths door due to the disease


Then why are the supplemental hospitals so underused?

"'As of Friday, fewer than 100 of the more than 1,000 beds at the Javits Center were staffed by federal medical personnel, according to a spokesperson for the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services.

As of Sunday, the Navy ship had treated about 40 patients, most of whom were recovering from emergency surgeries conducted at hospitals on land."
NPR
DeMango
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AZDuffman
April 11th, 2020 at 1:33:08 PM permalink
Looks like Texas is leading the way and starting to open things back up. Sanity is starting!
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unJon
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April 11th, 2020 at 1:42:21 PM permalink
Quote: darkoz

These equating of deaths is something I see often.

The hospitals in NYC and many other states are currently overrun due to Coronavirus. So many people are coming to deaths door due to the disease

Yes people die from Auto accidents. But they don't equate.

Once car accidents overrun our nation's hospitals, once auto accidents kill 700+ per day in just NYC and add 10,000 hospitalized in two weeks, I guarantee then, yes, you will see a public outcry for new rules about cars.

Don't believe me? Do we use Asbestos products anymore? Are there restrictions on lead paint? I am certain there are many things that were good for us that we eliminated because of health issues.

So when cars get to that inundation level at hospitals like Coronavirus then let's start comparisons



False equivalence. Asbestos didnít inundate hospitals either. But we got rid of it (sort of).

And you embraced the mathematical equation for opening up or not. I was just Checking if you would be consistent.

(For the record, I am very intentionally not arguing a side here. Just calling out what I view as bad arguments.)
The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong; but that is the way to bet.
darkoz
darkoz
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April 11th, 2020 at 1:45:39 PM permalink
Quote: unJon

False equivalence. Asbestos didnít inundate hospitals either. But we got rid of it (sort of).

And you embraced the mathematical equation for opening up or not. I was just Checking if you would be consistent.

(For the record, I am very intentionally not arguing a side here. Just calling out what I view as bad arguments.)



Then the car issue is also a false equivalent

Hospitals are not inundated with car accidents to the point of beds not available
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
darkoz
darkoz
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April 11th, 2020 at 1:48:38 PM permalink
Quote: SanchoPanza

Then why are the supplemental hospitals so underused?

"'As of Friday, fewer than 100 of the more than 1,000 beds at the Javits Center were staffed by federal medical personnel, according to a spokesperson for the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services.

As of Sunday, the Navy ship had treated about 40 patients, most of whom were recovering from emergency surgeries conducted at hospitals on land."
NPR



Now you gotta be kidding me! Didn't you even read the article??????????

It says both hospitals were Designated as NON-COVID field hospitals

What are we in????? A covid-19 pandemic

So, duuuh, the hospitals not accepting Covid patients aren't being overrun

Smfh
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
unJon
unJon
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April 11th, 2020 at 1:48:54 PM permalink
Quote: darkoz

Then the car issue is also a false equivalent

Hospitals are not inundated with car accidents to the point of beds not available



Inundated hospitals are not the primary issue. The primary issue is mortality and inundated hospitals exacerbate mortality. Agreed?

Cars manage to kill people without inundating hospitals. So what? Itís because you tend to die right away or be ok right away with a car accident. Many fewer results of a car crash result in taking up a hospital bed for 14 days.
The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong; but that is the way to bet.
darkoz
darkoz
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April 11th, 2020 at 1:51:16 PM permalink
Quote: unJon

Inundated hospitals are not the primary issue. The primary issue is mortality and inundated hospitals exacerbate mortality. Agreed?

Cars manage to kill people without inundating hospitals. So what? Itís because you tend to die right away or be ok right away with a car accident. Many fewer results of a car crash result in taking up a hospital bed for 14 days.



So then... It's a false equivalent!

As you say, many car accidents don't inundate the hospital with patients for 14 days.

Why are you using car accidents then as an equivalent?
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
rxwine
rxwine
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April 11th, 2020 at 1:53:25 PM permalink
Quote: SanchoPanza

Then why are the supplemental hospitals so underused?



I'd have to guess, you need an ambulance and a crew to move just one ventilator patient. This ties up people and equipment for at least an hour, but probably more.
Not sure why they aren't directing people to other hospitals though. Could be the level of care at other hospitals, especially people with more than one problem who might need specialists.
There's no secret. Just know what you're talking about before you open your mouth.

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