Coronavirus math
Quote: MDawgMay 11, 2023, end of the Federal COVID-19 Public Health Emergency (PHE) Declaration.
Real world changes I noticed:
June 30, 2023, was the last day the public health departments had free covid testing sites set up around town. Probably had to do with the government's no longer covering the cost of on site testing.
At some point too, probably in June, pharmacies such as CVS stopped offering the more accurate PCR based tests, and currently offer only the antigen based tests which are no more accurate than the at home tests. And, not all insurance companies cover the cost of testing any longer.
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The last few masker holdouts at work seem to have abandoned wearing them for the most part. No signs requiring when I had blood work done last week. Haven't heard anyone talk about the vax in ages.
But yes, I haven't seen anyone wearing a mask at the gym in some time. Still see them sometimes at the supermarket, I imagine they are still worn in healthcare locations. In the casinos, a few dealers, pit bosses and players still wear them.
As far as vaccine there should be a new version coming out in the fall targeting the most prevalent strains, anyone who hasn't already gotten the bivalent vaccine would probably not be interested in getting anything until the new one comes out.
Quote: MDawgMasks do the most when everyone in the room is wearing one, but I imagine if the mask is brand new or has not been used for a few days and someone flings out some particle, that the person wearing the mask would get some protection, especially if he got rid of the mask right after wearing it inside, or at least put it aside for a couple days before wearing it again.
But yes, I haven't seen anyone wearing a mask at the gym in some time. Still see them sometimes at the supermarket, I imagine they are still worn in healthcare locations. In the casinos, a few dealers, pit bosses and players still wear them.
The masks are like using a chain link fence to keep flies out. But it gets worse because to really work they would need to be sanitized at least daily. They were and are just to make some people feel safer. I see a couple dealers still wearing them. In-N-Out Burger just banned them without a doctor note, they want customers to see the employees smile. Everything else equal I would gravitate to the maskless dealer table.
Quote:As far as vaccine there should be a new version coming out in the fall targeting the most prevalent strains, anyone who hasn't already gotten the bivalent vaccine would probably not be interested in getting anything until the new one comes out.
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Anyone who has not gotten the vax yet has no interest in it, period. My doctor asked me if he should just stop asking. The people who really wanted it rushed out to get it. The people who were given it free at work or something and said "why not" were next. Many held out until effectively forced to keep their jobs (sad except maybe if you are in health care.) Those of us who do not want it still do not want it. History so far seems to say we made a good decision. Everyone I know who tested positive since the vax had the vax. Nobody I know who refused it caught it.
Quote: AZDuffmanEveryone I know who tested positive since the vax had the vax. Nobody I know who refused it caught it.
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Well what if the ones who did not get vaccinated stayed away or tried to stay away from people and events, maybe because they knew they had no protection, or for whatever reason. That might explain why they didn't catch it.
Quote: MDawgQuote: AZDuffmanEveryone I know who tested positive since the vax had the vax. Nobody I know who refused it caught it.
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Well what if the ones who did not get vaccinated stayed away or tried to stay away from people and events, maybe because they knew they had no protection, or for whatever reason. That might explain why they didn't catch it.
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Or possibly anecdotal reports based on a sample size of one mean nothing,,,
Or didn't cop to the fact that they caught it.Quote: MDawgWell what if the ones who did not get vaccinated stayed away or tried to stay away from people and events, maybe because they knew they had no protection, or for whatever reason. That might explain why they didn't catch it.
Or just didn't know, most people are asymptomitic.
Quote: AZDuffman
The masks are like using a chain link fence to keep flies out.
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I watch a lot of YouTube videos from around the world and lots of countries are still wearing masks but it's a joke. Half the time the mask is only covering their mouth and if it's covering both mouth and nose it's so loose that it couldn't possibly be doing anything. It does almost nothing even if you wear it correctly but it's like a good luck charm now or something. If you wear it it's like you're scaring the virus away in their minds. It's turned into a superstition, almost. Even here right in the middle of the pandemic mask wearing was mostly a joke, I constantly saw people wearing them totally incorrectly.
Quote: AZDuffman
The masks are like using a chain link fence to keep flies out.
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No. The masks are like using a chain link fence to keep flies IN.
It's not just AZD that's lost track of that, though it seems he never had a passing understanding of the concept.
Don't you get it yet that the masks were never intended to keep the virus outside the lungs of the wearer. They were meant to stop the potentially infected wearer from launching the virus out into the room.
Some wearers wear them because they think they are protecting themselves. Misguided. But some did and do wear them as a courtesy to their fellow man. As sociable creatures defending the collective wellbeing. Of course that only really works when the room is not full of germ spreading anti maskers. It only worked when the majority wore them.
Yayyyyy. I agree with everything EB just wrote $:o)Quote: EvenBob
I watch a lot of YouTube videos from around the world and lots of countries are still wearing masks but it's a joke. Half the time the mask is only covering their mouth and if it's covering both mouth and nose it's so loose that it couldn't possibly be doing anything. It does almost nothing even if you wear it correctly but it's like a good luck charm now or something. If you wear it it's like you're scaring the virus away in their minds. It's turned into a superstition, almost. Even here right in the middle of the pandemic mask wearing was mostly a joke, I constantly saw people wearing them totally incorrectly.
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Quote: MDawgQuote: AZDuffmanEveryone I know who tested positive since the vax had the vax. Nobody I know who refused it caught it.
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Well what if the ones who did not get vaccinated stayed away or tried to stay away from people and events, maybe because they knew they had no protection, or for whatever reason. That might explain why they didn't catch it.
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Myself and my circle nobody changed any of their behavior. In fact the first people to vax were the ones still staying home afraid of catching it.
Quote: OnceDearQuote: AZDuffman
The masks are like using a chain link fence to keep flies out.
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No. The masks are like using a chain link fence to keep flies IN.
It's not just AZD that's lost track of that, though it seems he never had a passing understanding of the concept.
What exactly would be the difference? Useless is useless.
Quote:Don't you get it yet that the masks were never intended to keep the virus outside the lungs of the wearer. They were meant to stop the potentially infected wearer from launching the virus out into the room.
Some wearers wear them because they think they are protecting themselves. Misguided. But some did and do wear them as a courtesy to their fellow man. As sociable creatures defending the collective wellbeing. Of course that only really works when the room is not full of germ spreading anti maskers. It only worked when the majority wore them.
The problem is the maskers do not think this way. Some do, from what I have seen this is an Asian thing. They do it over there and brought it over here. But the maskers I have known wear it because they think without the mask they will catch the virus and die. Some put the masks on only when they are in a crowded area. In smaller groups they do not wear them. So the maskers are the ones not getting your above point.
The whole thing has been a good object lesson for those of us who notice such things. Alas we are only about 10% of the population.
You use the best available information at the time, if you can find it. Some people try to sell their genius because they had a good prediction about one thing or another, but if there's no method behind it, it's not worth crap. Just as, I had a great stock year, does not make you an automatic genius of picking stocks either without a working method.
I never saw any useful data linking masks to increased infection rates at the time. So, there was no apparent downside to wearing them.
Can we all agree that China should be held accountable for the Wuh Flu now?
Quote: KeyserI still snicker when I see gullible people wearing surgical masks.
Can we all agree that China should be held accountable for the Wuh Flu now?
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How do we do that? What measures would you take to make China accountable?
tuttigym
Quote: MichaelBluejayOr didn't cop to the fact that they caught it.Quote: MDawgWell what if the ones who did not get vaccinated stayed away or tried to stay away from people and events, maybe because they knew they had no protection, or for whatever reason. That might explain why they didn't catch it.
Or just didn't know, most people are asymptomitic.
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How many, exactly, is "most people"? Billions never caught it.
tuttigym
Quote: TankoCovid finally caught up with me ten days ago. Suggest not taking this variant lightly. They say this is a milder variant, but it is still nasty. Doctor said I would be good to go in five days, but it didn't turn out that way. Today will be my first day out of the house. Two shots and the booster may have helped avoid worse. I intended to get the latest booster, but no need now.
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Not sure if the revised vaccine is out yet. I probably will get the flu shot soon, and check then. Not had any symptoms of covid ever, and probably not had the flu in 20 years at least, Flu shot almost every year. Missed a couple years on and off.
Quote: rxwineQuote: TankoCovid finally caught up with me ten days ago. Suggest not taking this variant lightly. They say this is a milder variant, but it is still nasty. Doctor said I would be good to go in five days, but it didn't turn out that way. Today will be my first day out of the house. Two shots and the booster may have helped avoid worse. I intended to get the latest booster, but no need now.
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Not sure if the revised vaccine is out yet. I probably will get the flu shot soon, and check then. Not had any symptoms of covid ever, and probably not had the flu in 20 years at least, Flu shot almost every year. Missed a couple years on and off.
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My Doctor told me she'd have shots available around September 28th.
Quote: rxwineQuote: TankoCovid finally caught up with me ten days ago. Suggest not taking this variant lightly. They say this is a milder variant, but it is still nasty. Doctor said I would be good to go in five days, but it didn't turn out that way. Today will be my first day out of the house. Two shots and the booster may have helped avoid worse. I intended to get the latest booster, but no need now.
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Not sure if the revised vaccine is out yet. I probably will get the flu shot soon, and check then. Not had any symptoms of covid ever, and probably not had the flu in 20 years at least, Flu shot almost every year. Missed a couple years on and off.
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Get well soon, Tanko. I believe the latest big variants Pirola, Eris and Arcturus are well mutated and the latest vaccines have a lot of revision needed to get close to being effective. Also, natural antibodies from one variant might not be good enough against another variant.
Still, I envy you your antibodies. I hope you avoid 'long covid'
Here in the UK, precautions apart from vaccine are pretty much abandoned. Infection and hospitalisation here are climbing rapidly, but from a low base.
Quote: OnceDear
Get well soon, Tanko.
Here in the UK, precautions apart from vaccine are pretty much abandoned.
Thank You OD.
Always good to be prepared.
I like to believe my 'bets' on the vaccines a few years ago, have paid off.
https://datebook.sfchronicle.com/music/paul-simon-hearing-loss-covid-seven-psalms-18117021
Paul Simon says he suffered sudden hearing loss while recording his new album, making it unlikely that he will ever be able to tour or perform live again.
The 81-year-old Rock & Roll Hall of Fame musician and co-founder of the folk duo Simon & Garfunkel told the British newspaper the Times that the hearing in his left ear deteriorated while he was in the studio working on Seven Psalms, which came out May 19.
Nobody has an explanation for it, Simon said. So everything became more difficult. My reaction to that was frustration and annoyance not quite anger yet, because I thought it would pass, it would repair itself.
Simon, who performed one of his last live shows at San Franciscos Outside Lands festival in 2019, added that he recently survived a severe bout of COVID-19, which has been linked to sudden irreversible hearing loss in some patients.
Red States lead the way in COVID hospitalizations.
COVID ventilation
Quote: MichaelBluejayCDC says 92.3% of adults got at least one COVID vaccine. So, while most anti-vaxxers are Republicans, most Republicans are not anti-vaxxers: That 92.3% rate would include most Republicans.
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Are the 7.7% left over independents?
tuttigym
His comment about the effects of ventilation on covid mentioned studies from years thay totally predated covid. I guess those studies were for other infections such as flu.
Regardless, I read the chart as not boding well for US covid infection rates overall.
It set me off to check the UK situation, after I said that we are pretty much ignoring non-vaccine precautions.
Well, the page takes a while to load, but I report that England has truly tiny infection rate this year compared to the peak of the pandemic. Phew!
https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/cases?areaType=nation&areaName=England
But I could add the Surgeon General of Florida is telling people not to get vaccinated.
It's making it impossible to follow federal, state & local officials when all they have is disinformation.
Quote: ChumpChangeMB's post brought in the politics and my chart was added later.
But I could add the Surgeon General of Florida is telling people not to get vaccinated.
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It was this that I saw first... Not that I'm bothered.
"Red States lead the way in COVID hospitalizations."
There are many fools in this world and probably some in positions of authority in Florida.
Over in the US, are Covid Vaccines still 'effectively' free or very low cost to the end user? How often?
And what of test kits?
Situation in the UK is that eligible persons, including the elderly and immune compromised will get free covid vaccination in the next month or so and every six months. Take up is very high. That's about 2/7 of the population.
Tests are free to NHS staff and some carers but for most of us they cost about $2 each, over the counter at pharmacies. Many of us have a few stockpiled from when they were free to all.
We have a gov't shutdown looming and the House just failed to fund the military for next month. (Developing)
Quote: MichaelBluejayCDC says 92.3% of adults got at least one COVID vaccine. So, while most anti-vaxxers are Republicans, most Republicans are not anti-vaxxers: That 92.3% rate would include most Republicans.
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Not exactly true. I know of many anti-vaxxers in the health care industry who got vaccinated under threat of losing their jobs. I think the same could be said of police, teachers, and others as well. I still think you can be classified as an anti-vaxxer if you took the shot because of coercive forces.
Was easy, no wait, no line. But they did say that they were going to run out by the end of the day and that anyone with an appointment for later in the week was going to have to wait until they got more.
Thanks. $25 is a bit steep, compared to our £1.50 or £7 for four tests. We used to get them by free mail order, too, or free over the counter at many places. Then they went to limited ordering, now, it's buy them cheap. We can get them off amazon.Quote: ChumpChangeI don't know for sure but gov't funding for free COVID tests and vaccines ended recently so some workarounds will have to be found for the coming season of COVID. Insurance plans can cover pharmacy vaccines. Tests are free if you can find the right outlet, but I don't know where they are; otherwise they cost like $25 for a couple tests. We used to just order tests free from the Post Office website. The COVID vaccine website that was my phone's proof of vaccination was taken offline recently, so no bar better ask for my COVID ID.
I know and I watch with Despair and Awe, every time from this side of the pond. But remember we cannot discuss that here. I'll just sneak in the comment..... One day the brinkmanship won't stop in time and it will be carnage on the markets.... The markets where our pension funds are invested. The markets where industry raises capital. International treasury and equity markets.Quote:
We have a gov't shutdown looming and the House just failed to fund the military for next month. (Developing)
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Quote: MDawgWe got the new vaccine already, it became available yesterday. Since we're in Vegas, and at least I am around a lot of people at times, we wanted to get it done.
Was easy, no wait, no line. But they did say that they were going to run out by the end of the day and that anyone with an appointment for later in the week was going to have to wait until they got more.
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Just checking...
"adapted bivalent vaccine targeting the Omicron subvariants BA.4 and BA.5 in addition to the original strain of SARS-CoV-2."
So, as expected, it's a few generations behind the latest 3 subvariants. Oh well. It will always be playing catch-up
Quote: ChumpChangeI don't know for sure but gov't funding for free COVID tests and vaccines ended recently so some workarounds will have to be found for the coming season of COVID. Insurance plans can cover pharmacy vaccines. Tests are free if you can find the right outlet, but I don't know where they are; otherwise they cost like $25 for a couple tests. We used to just order tests free from the Post Office website. The COVID vaccine website that was my phone's proof of vaccination was taken offline recently, so no bar better ask for my COVID ID.
We have a gov't shutdown looming and the House just failed to fund the military for next month. (Developing)
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Just came back from a trip to my local CVS. COVID tests for $9.99. As well, the Bridge Access Program will provide free Covid vaccines and treatments to uninsured people through December 2024. A whole bucketload of locations around the US, including CVS and Walgreen's drug stores.
Quote: ChumpChangeMB's post brought in the politics and my chart was added later.
But I could add the Surgeon General of Florida is telling people not to get vaccinated.
It's making it impossible to follow federal, state & local officials when all they have is disinformation.
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I wouldn't trust the Surg General of Florida to trim my toenails
Quote: MichaelBluejayCDC says 92.3% of adults got at least one COVID vaccine. So, while most anti-vaxxers are Republicans, most Republicans are not anti-vaxxers: That 92.3% rate would include most Republicans.
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I have yet to meet one anti-vaxer. Anybody I know who did not get it is fine with you getting one and has no care to ban the vax.
Quote: billryanI'm not sure where that 92% figure comes from. In Arizona, it is just under 80%, and we rank in the middle as far as states go.
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I have a hunch for you. My hunch would be the CDC just takes the total number of vaxes given vs. the total population. Some people might have gotten more than one shot. If I had to hazard a guess I would say about 70% in the USA got it with other advanced nations higher due to more stringent laws about it. Of said 70% I'd hazard that 1 in 5 of them were forced as stated above to keep their jobs and careers.
Unlike others in this thread I am not going to tie political leanings into it.
Quote: AZDuffman
I have yet to meet one anti-vaxer. Anybody I know who did not get it is fine with you getting one and has no care to ban the vax.
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But they're not getting it themselves because...?
If it's not because of legitimate contraindications/legal status/recent c19 illness you've got an antivaxer.
Quote: rawtuffQuote: AZDuffman
I have yet to meet one anti-vaxer. Anybody I know who did not get it is fine with you getting one and has no care to ban the vax.
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But they're not getting it themselves because...?
If it's not because of legitimate contraindications/legal status/recent c19 illness you've got an antivaxer.
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As to myself and most people I have known because we feel it was rushed out and do not know of any long term side effects. We have seen and heard of other "miracle meds" that later had caused problems and do not want to chance it over being sick for a few days. Other people may have other concerns, but that is mine and several people I know. Ask around if you need a bigger sample size.
This same group tends to be skeptics of most things being pushed, from global warming to whatever the latest food scare is (e.g.: fats, gluten, etc.) We don;t buy in simply because the infobabe on TV told us about it. We want to see more and actual proof. And it had better be actual proof.
To me the biggest proof is how the people who got the vax say I need to get it so they do not get sick. Now, if it works as advertised, why do they keep saying this?
Quote: AZDuffman
I have yet to meet one anti-vaxer.
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Me neither. I was never vaxxed and don't care who was. What I have met is people who will scream in my face because I did not get vaxxed. Do we have a name for those people?
Quote: EvenBobQuote: AZDuffman
I have yet to meet one anti-vaxer.
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Me neither. I was never vaxxed and don't care who was. What I have met is people who will scream in my face because I did not get vaxxed. Do we have a name for those people?
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Uninformed roulette players.
tuttigym
According to KFF polls, about one-third of Americans believe:
COVID vaccines have caused thousands of deaths
Ivermectin is an effective treatment for COVID
Sex education that includes info about contraception increases the chances that teens will become sexually active
Also, about 1/3 of Americans say they trust Fox News "a lot" for health information. Those who watch Fox, Newsmax, and OANN are more likely to believe misinformation.
And since dying from gunshot wounds is a health issue, the polling also looked at and found:
60% believe armed school guards have been effective in preventing school shootings
43% believe most gun homicides in the U.S. are gang-related
42% believe people who have a gun at home are less likely to be killed by a gun vs. those who don't have a gun at home
The groups which are more likely to believe misinformation:
No college degree
Republicans
Independents
Viewers of Fox, Newsmax, and OANN
Quote: rxwineSimilar arguments. Don't wear seatbelts not because of overall better outcomes, but because you might be the one getting killed by a more rare event.
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I once knew a guy that had the airbags disabled in his car because there are rare instances where deploying airbags can kill you.
Quote: TigerWuQuote: rxwineSimilar arguments. Don't wear seatbelts not because of overall better outcomes, but because you might be the one getting killed by a more rare event.
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I once knew a guy that had the airbags disabled in his car because there are rare instances where deploying airbags can kill you.
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In the 70s and 80s the automakers pointed this out. One issue is the USA demands bags deploy to protect an unbelted passenger which is not the case elsewhere. So our bags deploy much faster and harder. Passenger bags in particular have been problems for kids or small women. I remember an article from some guy was afraid to let his kid ride in the front seat on a long trip.
So that is not an unheard of thing.
Quote: MichaelBluejay(All of the following is objective information, I am not voicing political opinions.)
According to KFF polls, about one-third of Americans believe:
COVID vaccines have caused thousands of deaths
Ivermectin is an effective treatment for COVID
Sex education that includes info about contraception increases the chances that teens will become sexually active
Also, about 1/3 of Americans say they trust Fox News "a lot" for health information. Those who watch Fox, Newsmax, and OANN are more likely to believe misinformation.
And since dying from gunshot wounds is a health issue, the polling also looked at and found:
60% believe armed school guards have been effective in preventing school shootings
43% believe most gun homicides in the U.S. are gang-related
42% believe people who have a gun at home are less likely to be killed by a gun vs. those who don't have a gun at home
The groups which are more likely to believe misinformation:
No college degree
Republicans
Independents
Viewers of Fox, Newsmax, and OANN
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How is anything here not regarding Covid not hijacking? What does sex education have to do with Covid?
Quote: AZDuffmanQuote: TigerWuQuote: rxwineSimilar arguments. Don't wear seatbelts not because of overall better outcomes, but because you might be the one getting killed by a more rare event.
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I once knew a guy that had the airbags disabled in his car because there are rare instances where deploying airbags can kill you.
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In the 70s and 80s the automakers pointed this out. One issue is the USA demands bags deploy to protect an unbelted passenger which is not the case elsewhere. So our bags deploy much faster and harder. Passenger bags in particular have been problems for kids or small women. I remember an article from some guy was afraid to let his kid ride in the front seat on a long trip.
So that is not an unheard of thing.
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Small children shouldn't be riding in the front seat.
Quote: billryanQuote: AZDuffmanQuote: TigerWuQuote: rxwineSimilar arguments. Don't wear seatbelts not because of overall better outcomes, but because you might be the one getting killed by a more rare event.
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I once knew a guy that had the airbags disabled in his car because there are rare instances where deploying airbags can kill you.
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In the 70s and 80s the automakers pointed this out. One issue is the USA demands bags deploy to protect an unbelted passenger which is not the case elsewhere. So our bags deploy much faster and harder. Passenger bags in particular have been problems for kids or small women. I remember an article from some guy was afraid to let his kid ride in the front seat on a long trip.
So that is not an unheard of thing.
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Small children shouldn't be riding in the front seat.
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We used to all the time. Car seats do it all the time.
