Coronavirus math
Quote: rxwineQuote: KeyserBefore applying treatment, how is race determined? Genetically? Or by someone that judges your race based on your skin color?
In NY what if you're only 1/16 black? Is that black enough to receive treatment? But what if you're skin isn't dark enough and you're more than 1/4?
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I don't know how they apply it, but if you're saying it's undeterminable, then it's more or less meaningless. It's as if you've been given a directive that if a Martian or a Venusian shows up you should prioritize the Martian. Well, if you don't know how to prioritize the two, because you have no idea what constitutes a Martian from a Venusian you can't apply it, can you?
So, no problem. Just ask for a clarification or don't apply it.
Anyway, urgent healthcare is usually structured by saving life or limb moving to the head of the line. All else is first serve. (one exception can be where little can be done to save someone, so they move resources to someone not as dire who can be saved)
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My priority would be by age. Save the younger people first as in general they have more to live for.
Not "who is most likely to pay, or how much did they bid?".Quote: SOOPOO
To me it is simple. Pick one of these two options.
1. First come, first served.
2. Most in need. There are easy ways to determine who is sicker, using quantifiable metrics.
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I'm waiting 2 weeks for the shot to take effect. But, checking my phone, the 7-day average of daily new COVID cases in my area has surged from 57 two weeks ago to 227 today, or up to 4X, or +300%. Total cases have more than doubled since 7 months ago, and deaths are up 50%.
Seriously? I never will understand your healthcare system. That almost feels like insurance fraud. "We will invoice your insurance $xxx, but if you don't have insurance, we'll invoice the government... But either way, we won't sue, cos we have such massive margins."Quote: ChumpChangeWalMart said they would bill your insurance for a vaccine. If you didn't have insurance, the cost would be picked up somehow (supposedly by the gov't), so the patient wouldn't have to pay anything.
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^Not a quote.
1 in 18..... Avoid him. Don't be him.
The at home COVID tests being 8x the cost they are in Europe was apparently a pricing “deal” the retailers worked out with the government. Now that the “deal” expired, the prices are going up even more. But hey, it’s reimbursed by insurance!
Biden to speak Thursday maybe about a new gov't website where people can sign up for free home COVID tests. He's signing contracts for 500 million home tests this week.
Chicago schools shutdown, and not even the distribution of KN95 masks will bring the teachers back. Less than 20% of kids ages 5-11 are vaccinated. Kids are overwhelming hospitals. COVID can cause diabetes in kids too.
*CDC RAISES CANADA COVID ADVISORY TO `VERY HIGH'
CDC TELLS AMERICANS TO AVOID TRAVEL TO CANADA
Quote: OnceDearSeriously? I never will understand your healthcare system. That almost feels like insurance fraud. "We will invoice your insurance $xxx, but if you don't have insurance, we'll invoice the government... But either way, we won't sue, cos we have such massive margins."Quote: ChumpChangeWalMart said they would bill your insurance for a vaccine. If you didn't have insurance, the cost would be picked up somehow (supposedly by the gov't), so the patient wouldn't have to pay anything.
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^Not a quote.
1 in 18..... Avoid him. Don't be him.
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You don't have to understand it. Just embrace it. If you have insurance, it is covered. If you don't, then the Govt will pick up the tab. It's not like they are billing twice.
Quote: billryanQuote: OnceDearSeriously? I never will understand your healthcare system. That almost feels like insurance fraud. "We will invoice your insurance $xxx, but if you don't have insurance, we'll invoice the government... But either way, we won't sue, cos we have such massive margins."Quote: ChumpChangeWalMart said they would bill your insurance for a vaccine. If you didn't have insurance, the cost would be picked up somehow (supposedly by the gov't), so the patient wouldn't have to pay anything.
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^Not a quote.
1 in 18..... Avoid him. Don't be him.
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You don't have to understand it. Just embrace it. If you have insurance, it is covered. If you don't, then the Govt will pick up the tab. It's not like they are billing twice.
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Uh-Uh. If your insurance company has to pay the cost for a large number of procedures then they will tend towards recovering that cost by raising premiums in future years. There's no free lunch.
However:
I am uncertain, but I thought that the US federal government was reimbursing insurance companies for vaccination costs and that that procedure was adopted because it is easier for the government to audit and reimburse insurance companies than to reimburse every pharmacy and health care provider that is offering vaccines.
Quote: gordonm888
I am uncertain, but I thought that the US federal government was reimbursing insurance companies for vaccination costs and that that procedure was adopted because it is easier for the government to audit and reimburse insurance companies than to reimburse every pharmacy and health care provider that is offering vaccines.
I don't believe that is the case at all. The IC will be out the money for testing and vaccination costs for their covered members.
Schoolkids in NYC are eating their lunch outdoors where it's 17 degrees and snowy.
Quote: ChumpChangeJust heard a report from a drive-thru COVID testing site in California; it's around $100 per test.
Schoolkids in NYC are eating their lunch outdoors where it's 17 degrees and snowy.
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"We don't need no education"
Quote: gordonm888I am uncertain, but I thought that the US federal government was reimbursing insurance companies for vaccination costs and that that procedure was adopted because it is easier for the government to audit and reimburse insurance companies than to reimburse every pharmacy and health care provider that is offering vaccines.
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I too am uncertain, but I reasonably expect that the major pharmacy retailers also have an affiliated insurance company, for things like medicare supplemental benefit provision.
Quote: KeyserI don't understand why we're still having problems with test shortages? And why do we have such a shortage of monoclonal antibody treatments as well as therapeutics like Pfizer's pill?
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Making tests is relatively easy once you are set up. Distribution and logistics are harder. We probably have a warehouse full of tests maybe a few. Had they put Wal-Mart in charge of distribution we would be stocked everywhere.
Quote: KeyserI don't understand why we're still having problems with test shortages? And why do we have such a shortage of monoclonal antibody treatments as well as therapeutics like Pfizer's pill?
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Abbott (the leading home test provider) cut like half of the workforce they had hired this summer when demand dropped.
Quote: mcallister3200Quote: KeyserI don't understand why we're still having problems with test shortages? And why do we have such a shortage of monoclonal antibody treatments as well as therapeutics like Pfizer's pill?
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Abbott (the leading home test provider) cut like half of the workforce they had hired this summer when demand dropped.
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If Abbott's staff cutback occurred as you noted, it identifies a major reason for the test shortage.
But, don't forget! C-virus cases are exploding everywhere, with children affected most by the Omicron variant. USA virus positivity levels today are 26 percent (a record high!) Johns Hopkins also shows Nevada at a 79% positivity level. People, perhaps people who are trying to be as "safe" as they can, have begun to test themselves. I know my neighbors are searching for all the home test kit options available to them.
Between staff cutbacks and increased demand, it should be pretty clear to most careful observers why we currently have test shortages. Keyer also asks about monoclonal antibody treatments and therapeutics. Is there really such a shortage as Keyser claims or not? Data, if anyone has any to share, might indicate how many therapies and treatments we would need to have if we didn't have a shortage. IMHO, instead of more therapies & tests, what we need is one that works completely.
Quote: DieterQuote: rsactuaryThe Wall Street Journal does not have any sort of degree in science. I'm not discounting the possibility of a lab leak, but we need something better than a random scientist who is giving an opinion. All of this doesn't really distort the fact that you're racist.
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Personal insult. 3 days.
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rsactuary suspended?! What is the world coming to?
Dunkin had one employee out of the normal three working last Saturday.
I suppose this is to be expected when you live among lowest vaxx rate, highest obesity rates state.
Quote: DRichI am currently spending the day and night in the Emergency Room. I expect I will have Covd by the time I am released.
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Implication being you do not have it before entering the ER. I’d have done a risk/benefit analysis before going to the ER unless it is truly an emergency that brought you there. Omicron spreads so easily hard to imagine that sitting in an ER for over 12 hours you won’t at least be exposed.
I've got to track down some 3M 8210 masks.
Quote: SOOPOOQuote: DRichI am currently spending the day and night in the Emergency Room. I expect I will have Covd by the time I am released.
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Implication being you do not have it before entering the ER. I’d have done a risk/benefit analysis before going to the ER unless it is truly an emergency that brought you there. Omicron spreads so easily hard to imagine that sitting in an ER for over 12 hours you won’t at least be exposed.
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i think it was prudent as my doctor said that 259/149 was a walking stroke. i was at his office and he was going to call an ambulance. that and some blood in the urine was enough to scare me since i only have one kidney.
by the way, it is hard to type with two iVs in my left arm and a pulseox on my index finger while the blood pressure cuff on my right arm is firing off every 10 minutes.
Quote: DRichQuote: SOOPOOQuote: DRichI am currently spending the day and night in the Emergency Room. I expect I will have Covd by the time I am released.
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Implication being you do not have it before entering the ER. I’d have done a risk/benefit analysis before going to the ER unless it is truly an emergency that brought you there. Omicron spreads so easily hard to imagine that sitting in an ER for over 12 hours you won’t at least be exposed.
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i think it was prudent as my doctor said that 259/149 was a walking stroke. i was at his office and he was going to call an ambulance. that and some blood in the urine was enough to scare me since i only have one kidney.
by the way, it is hard to type with two iVs in my left arm and a pulseox on my index finger while the blood pressure cuff on my right arm is firing off every 10 minutes.
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Gulp. Agree. COVID is the least of your worries. That BP for a person with one kidney is doubly worrisome. Please follow Drs. Orders with regards to medication! Blood in urine might be a second issue. Good luck.
Quote: KeyserUnless you're wearing a fitted N95 or KN95 and replacing with each exposure then you're wasting your time wearing a mask.
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Yep. my Titleist golf hat provides as much protection as a mask.
Quote: GundyQuote: KeyserUnless you're wearing a fitted N95 or KN95 and replacing with each exposure then you're wasting your time wearing a mask.
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Yep. my Titleist golf hat provides as much protection as a mask.
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Such a shame only one like allowed!
Quote: SOOPOOQuebec has done the math! Something like 90% eligible are vaccinated. 50% of ICU beds are filled by unvaccinated. Unvaccinated will now have some sort of added tax levied on them! I wonder if this will open the floodgates there? Tax per each pound over 200? Tax for smoking? For using alcohol? Etc….
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There’s some logic to these ideas and in particular something at some point needs to be done about the obesity epidemic in the US beyond enabling and incentivizing them by rewarding them with handicapped parking spaces.
However, healthcare costs tend to be highest and heavily subsidized for old people. People who make it over 80-90 were generally not overweight or significantly so in their adult lives past middle age. So if you play the averages seems like most people at some point are getting their healthcare subsidized at the expense of the more healthy.
Quote: SOOPOOQuebec has done the math! Something like 90% eligible are vaccinated. 50% of ICU beds are filled by unvaccinated. Unvaccinated will now have some sort of added tax levied on them! I wonder if this will open the floodgates there? Tax per each pound over 200? Tax for smoking? For using alcohol? Etc….
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i would be all for it. i am one of the few that like the airlines breaking down and charging for everything.
Quote: DRichQuote: SOOPOOQuote: DRichI am currently spending the day and night in the Emergency Room. I expect I will have Covd by the time I am released.
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Implication being you do not have it before entering the ER. I’d have done a risk/benefit analysis before going to the ER unless it is truly an emergency that brought you there. Omicron spreads so easily hard to imagine that sitting in an ER for over 12 hours you won’t at least be exposed.
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i think it was prudent as my doctor said that 259/149 was a walking stroke. i was at his office and he was going to call an ambulance. that and some blood in the urine was enough to scare me since i only have one kidney.
by the way, it is hard to type with two iVs in my left arm and a pulseox on my index finger while the blood pressure cuff on my right arm is firing off every 10 minutes.
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259/149? Good lord, Drich, please let us know when and if you are out of danger. Your immediate blood pressure problem is hereby granted a waiver from being penalized for being "off-topic" in this thread.
Quote: gordonm888Quote: DRichQuote: SOOPOOQuote: DRichI am currently spending the day and night in the Emergency Room. I expect I will have Covd by the time I am released.
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Implication being you do not have it before entering the ER. I’d have done a risk/benefit analysis before going to the ER unless it is truly an emergency that brought you there. Omicron spreads so easily hard to imagine that sitting in an ER for over 12 hours you won’t at least be exposed.
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i think it was prudent as my doctor said that 259/149 was a walking stroke. i was at his office and he was going to call an ambulance. that and some blood in the urine was enough to scare me since i only have one kidney.
by the way, it is hard to type with two iVs in my left arm and a pulseox on my index finger while the blood pressure cuff on my right arm is firing off every 10 minutes.
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259/149? Good lord, Drich, please let us know when and if you are out of danger. Your immediate blood pressure problem is hereby granted a waiver from being penalized for being "off-topic" in this thread.
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Thank you. I am still in the hospital for at least another night. BTW, I am not really sure it was off topic as the thought was would the math justify going to the hospital and potentially getting Covid. I believe Dr Soopoo blessed my choice.
Quote: DRichby the way, it is hard to type with two iVs in my left arm and a pulseox on my index finger while the blood pressure cuff on my right arm is firing off every 10 minutes.
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I hope you come out of whatever you have as quickly and painlessly as possible and without pick up Corona.
Quote: SOOPOOUnvaccinated will now have some sort of added tax levied on them! I wonder if this will open the floodgates there? Tax per each pound over 200? Tax for smoking? For using alcohol? Etc….
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That's disgusting. That's not leading the way, that's dividing a country. The way you get more people to get vaccinated is through a positive message and incentivizing the vaccine. Belittling, and bigotry towards the unvaxed only makes them more defiant and it costs lives. It's the same appalling situation here in the US.
They need to stop calling this a pandemic of the unvaxed and tell the truth.
The message needs to be honest and positive. They need to admit that getting vaxed doesn't prevent infection, but that it does help prevent serious illness and death. Over 95% of the population over 60 is fully vaxed, yet infection rates are higher than ever.
Quote: ChumpChangeHospitals would demand you get vaxxed and boosted or there will be no beds available for anyone. The McDonald's epidemic is not filling hospitals to the brim.
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The combo meal of the two combined might be.
Anyways, hospitals have become the boy who cried wolf about how they’re stretched before the pandemic ever began, they just don’t have enough credibility left there for the public at large to believe them. I’ve never once heard a hospital say they’re not needing more staff, and somehow they’ve always managed to get by.
https://www.wusa9.com/article/news/local/virginia/state-of-emergency-virginia-hospitalizations-covid-omicron/65-af4bb5ed-d9b2-47fc-ad85-24388ee10f32
Northam confirmed that the overwhelming majority of those hospitalized are currently unvaccinated patients.
"Ultimately, the best thing everyone can do for our hospitals and their staff is to get vaccinated."
Quote: mcallister3200Quote: ChumpChangeHospitals would demand you get vaxxed and boosted or there will be no beds available for anyone. The McDonald's epidemic is not filling hospitals to the brim.
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The combo meal of the two combined might be.
Anyways, hospitals have become the boy who cried wolf about how they’re stretched before the pandemic ever began, they just don’t have enough credibility left there for the public at large to believe them. I’ve never once heard a hospital say they’re not needing more staff, and somehow they’ve always managed to get by.
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You are usually well informed, but not on this one! In the beginning of the pandemic hospitals were so overrun they were putting beds in lobbies, having regular beds used as ICU beds, used Anesthesia Machines as substitute ventilators, opened tent adjuncts to hospitals, ran out of morgue space, etc. if by ‘get by’, you mean provide care that most people would not be happy with, then, yes, they got by!
Quote: KeyserThey need to admit that getting vaxed doesn't prevent infection, but that it does help prevent serious illness and death.
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But that's exactly what has been said all the time? No authority on the matter has claimed that the vaccines developed for C19 are giving sterilizing immunity. It's prophylactic immunity that the vaxx are capable of providing and the info about it is readily available to the public.
To make matters worse, they demonize, and belittle the unvaxed and lead people to believe that they're responsible for spreading the virus. It's appalling.
Quote: mcallister3200Sure, they were legitimately overrun at that time. My point remains, has any hospital in the US ever not claimed to be needing more nurses/staff? Made it ring hollow during this.
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My nephew just passed his test to be a licensed RN. The hospital closest to where he lives did not have a job for him. I don’t know what the hospital ‘claims’, but there was no job for him.
I’ve worked with 3 different hospital CEOs during my career. As far as my department, which included both staff physician Anesthesiologists and CRNAs, WE always felt we needed more staff, while the CEOs felt we needed less!
Quote: SOOPOOQuote: mcallister3200Sure, they were legitimately overrun at that time. My point remains, has any hospital in the US ever not claimed to be needing more nurses/staff? Made it ring hollow during this.
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My nephew just passed his test to be a licensed RN. The hospital closest to where he lives did not have a job for him. I don’t know what the hospital ‘claims’, but there was no job for him.
I’ve worked with 3 different hospital CEOs during my career. As far as my department, which included both staff physician Anesthesiologists and CRNAs, WE always felt we needed more staff, while the CEOs felt we needed less!
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I always hear that we have a shortage of nurses then I hear something like this. Makes you wonder.
Quote: SOOPOOQuote: mcallister3200Sure, they were legitimately overrun at that time. My point remains, has any hospital in the US ever not claimed to be needing more nurses/staff? Made it ring hollow during this.
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My nephew just passed his test to be a licensed RN. The hospital closest to where he lives did not have a job for him. I don’t know what the hospital ‘claims’, but there was no job for him.
I’ve worked with 3 different hospital CEOs during my career. As far as my department, which included both staff physician Anesthesiologists and CRNAs, WE always felt we needed more staff, while the CEOs felt we needed less!
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I think I have to admit I’m speaking mostly from a place of fatigue and being over/done with this all.
No personal concern given my health/vaccination status. Do not have exposure to children who don’t have a choice and having no sympathy for anyone who’s more likely to get a severe case based on their choices.
Quote: rawtuffUnvaxxed people are far more transmissible than vaxxed that's a fact, not a propaganda.
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That's simply not true. Vaxed and unvaxed are spreading the Omicron at the same rate.
Considering the fact that most of the people eligible for the vax have received one, yet we're at the highest rate of infection ever should tell you all you need to know.
The fact is, the vax simply doesn't prevent infection. It only protects against serious illness.
Quote:Vaccinated people can still become infected and have the potential to spread the virus to others, although at much lower rates than unvaccinated people.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/science/science-briefs/fully-vaccinated-people.html
Quote: KeyserQuote: rawtuffUnvaxxed people are far more transmissible than vaxxed that's a fact, not a propaganda.
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Considering the fact that most of the people eligible for the vax have received one, yet we're at the highest rate of infection ever should tell you all you need to know.
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Due to the nature of this pathogen and its currently dominant variant (Omicron) and the nature of the vaccines available the population should be vaccinated with a recent (best no older than 3 months) booster shot in order to have significant enough level of antibodies.
Of American adults who are fully vaccinated, only about 30 percent have received a booster, according to data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. And among all Americans, only about one in six has received a booster.
And, yes, vaccines are not that effective against Omicron due to the high number of mutations in the variant - about 70% compared to about 90% against Delta.
People who are not vaccinated, but have been infected with C19 in the past 3-5 months and survived without complications will have even better immune response to Omicron than just vaccinated. Still, vaccines do have high positive effect on lowering the rate of transmission even if not preventing infection alone.
