Coronavirus math
August 25th, 2021 at 8:50:27 AM
permalink
Breaking News: Delta Air Lines is offering employees a choice: Get vaccinated or pay $200 more per month on their health insurance premiums.
"The average hospital stay for COVID-19 has cost Delta $50,000 per person," said CEO Ed Bastian in an employee memo. "This surcharge will be necessary to address the financial risk the decision to not vaccinate is creating for our company. In recent weeks since the rise of the B.1.617.2 variant, all Delta employees who have been hospitalized with COVID were not fully vaccinated."
Vaccinated employees will still be paid through state and locally mandated paycheck protection if they experience a breakthrough infection and miss work, starting Sept. 30, while unvaccinated employees must use their own sick days.
"The average hospital stay for COVID-19 has cost Delta $50,000 per person," said CEO Ed Bastian in an employee memo. "This surcharge will be necessary to address the financial risk the decision to not vaccinate is creating for our company. In recent weeks since the rise of the B.1.617.2 variant, all Delta employees who have been hospitalized with COVID were not fully vaccinated."
Vaccinated employees will still be paid through state and locally mandated paycheck protection if they experience a breakthrough infection and miss work, starting Sept. 30, while unvaccinated employees must use their own sick days.
August 25th, 2021 at 9:45:14 AM
permalink
Quote: ChumpChange"The average hospital stay for COVID-19 has cost Delta $50,000 per person," said CEO Ed Bastian in an employee memo. "This surcharge will be necessary to address the financial risk the decision to not vaccinate is creating for our company. In recent weeks since the rise of the B.1.617.2 variant, all Delta employees who have been hospitalized with COVID were not fully vaccinated."
Its remarkable what the Delta Airlines CEO used as the name of the highly-transmissible variant of COVID-19.
So many better men, a few of them friends, are dead. And a thousand thousand slimy things live on, and so do I.
August 25th, 2021 at 9:54:15 AM
permalink
Quote: gordonm888Its remarkable what the Delta Airlines CEO used as the name of the highly-transmissible variant of COVID-19.
I like Bastion. I had some round trip tickets from Las Vegas to the Caribbean I found on a mistake fare for $39 each. I booked three of them, a couple months later the Delta schedule changed. and I would have to miss an extra day of work, Then the schedule changed again and I would have to depart from a different airport, etc. Finally I personally sent Ed Bastian an email stating how crazy this situation became. He agreed, he booked me out of Las Vegas, upgraded all three of us to First Class for the whole trip, and left the fare at $39.
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
August 25th, 2021 at 10:25:36 AM
permalink
Yes sir. I'm sorry to have made you have to reprimand me.Quote: gordonm888MIchaelB: Thank you for your recent contributions to this thread. But, please stop fighting with Tuttigym.
Presidential Election polls and odds: https://2605.me/p
August 25th, 2021 at 10:40:19 AM
permalink
Quote: gordonm888Its remarkable what the Delta Airlines CEO used as the name of the highly-transmissible variant of COVID-19.
Seemed to do pretty well for Constellation.
May the cards fall in your favor.
August 25th, 2021 at 10:43:14 AM
permalink
Quote: MichaelBluejayYes sir. I'm sorry to have made you have to reprimand me.
Meh, you got off easy.
Quote: MichaelBluejayThat's a big turn from your earlier statement:
So which time were you lying, the first or the second?
Anyone else would have been suspended for calling Tuttigym a liar.
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
August 25th, 2021 at 11:06:50 AM
permalink
Quote: darkozMeh, you got off easy.
Anyone else would have been suspended for calling Tuttigym a liar.
Some are more equal than others.
When a rock is thrown into a pack of dogs, the one that yells the loudest is the one who got hit.
August 25th, 2021 at 12:07:26 PM
permalink
Quote: DeMangoSome are more equal than others.
Well that's one subject we can agree on
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
August 25th, 2021 at 12:08:26 PM
permalink
Will the planet of the apes get COVID?
August 25th, 2021 at 12:29:56 PM
permalink
Quote: ChumpChangeWill the planet of the apes get COVID?
You mean the one where the statue of liberty was toppled over.
Nah, that's Earth. Not the same as this planet.
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
August 25th, 2021 at 2:17:16 PM
permalink
Quote: DeMangoSome are more equal than others.
You never noticed my sig?
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
August 26th, 2021 at 10:27:54 AM
permalink
Quote: darkozMeh, you got off easy.
Anyone else would have been suspended for calling Tuttigym a liar.
Thank you for the post. Unfortunately double standards exist everywhere. It is unfortunate that rules are subjected to different interpretations.
tuttigym
August 26th, 2021 at 10:30:44 AM
permalink
Quote: DeMangoSome are more equal than others.
Thank you, DeMango. There does seem to be a lack of consistency, but that is the human condition, right?
tuttigym
September 4th, 2021 at 1:41:26 AM
permalink
Exercise: Make a wild estimate of how long it will take for everyone to become mostly immune to COVID through either vaccination or previous infection. As per reports, surviving Delta confers at least as much immunity as a vaccine.
53% of the U.S. population of 328M has been vaccinated, or 174M vaxxed, 154M unvaxxed.
41M total cases in the U.S. This includes people who got COVID multiple times, but we can't know how many those are, and it's a small number anyway, so we'll count 41M cases as 41M people.
From an earlier post, untested infections (asymptomatic) could be another 66%. I'll use a more conservative figure of 25% for the range.
So 41M tested cases is 51-68M cases, once we factor in infections that were never tested. Subtracting out the 1.6% who perished, that's 40-67M people who survived and have some immunity.
So 174M are vaxed, and 40-67M survived, but there's overlap between the two groups. We'll assume that vaccinations are spread equally among the population, including people who did and didn't contract COVID. Of the 40-67M who survived, if 47% of them are unvaxxed, that's 19-31M unvaxxed survivors.
So 174M vaxxed, plus 19-31M unvaxxed survivors, equals 193-205M with immunity, or (328M - 193M to 205M = ) 123-135M without immunity.
The 7-day average for new cases is 163k. So 123-135M ÷ 163k/d = 755-828 days.
If that infection rate holds steady, COVID could be over in about 2.2 years because everyone will have immunity, except by then we might be up to the Zeta variant which kills on contact.
53% of the U.S. population of 328M has been vaccinated, or 174M vaxxed, 154M unvaxxed.
41M total cases in the U.S. This includes people who got COVID multiple times, but we can't know how many those are, and it's a small number anyway, so we'll count 41M cases as 41M people.
From an earlier post, untested infections (asymptomatic) could be another 66%. I'll use a more conservative figure of 25% for the range.
So 41M tested cases is 51-68M cases, once we factor in infections that were never tested. Subtracting out the 1.6% who perished, that's 40-67M people who survived and have some immunity.
So 174M are vaxed, and 40-67M survived, but there's overlap between the two groups. We'll assume that vaccinations are spread equally among the population, including people who did and didn't contract COVID. Of the 40-67M who survived, if 47% of them are unvaxxed, that's 19-31M unvaxxed survivors.
So 174M vaxxed, plus 19-31M unvaxxed survivors, equals 193-205M with immunity, or (328M - 193M to 205M = ) 123-135M without immunity.
The 7-day average for new cases is 163k. So 123-135M ÷ 163k/d = 755-828 days.
If that infection rate holds steady, COVID could be over in about 2.2 years because everyone will have immunity, except by then we might be up to the Zeta variant which kills on contact.
Presidential Election polls and odds: https://2605.me/p
September 4th, 2021 at 6:45:10 AM
permalink
Word of the Day - zoonotic.
https://www.cdc.gov/onehealth/basics/zoonotic-diseases.html
Stop eating bats, and fornicating with pigs.
When Mad Cow disease got in the news, it had me worried I was going have to become a vegetarian sooner than later.
Quote:3 out of every 4 new or emerging infectious diseases in people come from animals.
https://www.cdc.gov/onehealth/basics/zoonotic-diseases.html
Stop eating bats, and fornicating with pigs.
When Mad Cow disease got in the news, it had me worried I was going have to become a vegetarian sooner than later.
There's no secret. Just know what you're talking about before you open your mouth.
September 4th, 2021 at 1:35:29 PM
permalink
Quote: MichaelBluejayExercise: Make a wild estimate of how long it will take for everyone to become mostly immune to COVID through either vaccination or previous infection.
My recent obsession is that efficiency of the Pfizer vaccine is clearly declining with time (I have many extended family members who seemingly lost the vaccination lottery and got the Pfizer vaccine.) There is not much announced data on the Moderna and J&J vaccines -although what I have seen so far is that the efficiency of Moderna vaccine seems to be holding up.
Your analysis assumes, as a starting point, that once we are vaccinated or infected that we are permanently protected to some reasonable extent. But given the 800 day timeframe that you calculate, I feel pretty certain that all the Pfizer vaccinnees (is that a word?) will need to be re-vaxed, and maybe others.
Unless our medical technology realizes some breakthroughs on controlling/curing Covid, I am afraid that many good things will be lost.
So many better men, a few of them friends, are dead. And a thousand thousand slimy things live on, and so do I.
September 4th, 2021 at 3:17:12 PM
permalink
Quote: gordonm888Quote: MichaelBluejayExercise: Make a wild estimate of how long it will take for everyone to become mostly immune to COVID through either vaccination or previous infection.
My recent obsession is that efficiency of the Pfizer vaccine is clearly declining with time (I have many extended family members who seemingly lost the vaccination lottery and got the Pfizer vaccine.) There is not much announced data on the Moderna and J&J vaccines -although what I have seen so far is that the efficiency of Moderna vaccine seems to be holding up.
Your analysis assumes, as a starting point, that once we are vaccinated or infected that we are permanently protected to some reasonable extent. But given the 800 day timeframe that you calculate, I feel pretty certain that all the Pfizer vaccinnees (is that a word?) will need to be re-vaxed, and maybe others.
Unless our medical technology realizes some breakthroughs on controlling/curing Covid, I am afraid that many good things will be lost.link to original post
I understood this from the very beginning.
Vaccines were the most idiotic way to go.
What is needed are therapeutics. So you get sick, go to doctor, get an injection and go home. You don't get any sicker.
Only need medicine enough for those who get sick. You don't need to inject literally the entire world
Of course big pharma companies saw a bigger cash cow if they had the entire world as a patient, oh and guess what, boosters required for the entire world annually.
So, the entire world has gotten suckered by greed!
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
September 4th, 2021 at 4:54:52 PM
permalink
Not exactly. It's more like I'm assuming that everyone who bothered to get vaxxed will bother to get the booster.Quote: gordonm888Your analysis assumes, as a starting point, that once we are vaccinated or infected that we are permanently protected to some reasonable extent.
The analysis also assumes that no unvaxxed people will get the vaccine, even though the number of vaccinated has been increasing by 0.1 percentage points per day for some time. But I figure that sometime soon we'll hit a wall, and everyone who's willing to get a vaccine will have gotten one.
But yeah, overall, my "analysis" assumes that everything will stay the same, including the rate of infections. But change will almost certainly be the case. Case in point, a few months ago we looked like we were a few weeks from COVID being over in the U.S., but then Delta hit. Whatever progress we make, the next variant could upend all of it. We're lucky that the vaccines are very effective against Delta, and that the mortality rate is only about 1.5%. How will the world look like with ineffective vaccines and a 20% mortality rate?
Presidential Election polls and odds: https://2605.me/p
September 4th, 2021 at 6:42:11 PM
permalink
I had a chickenpox, errr, shingles vaccine a couple months ago and I was sick with a fever for 2-4 days. I get a 2nd shingles shot next week.
September 4th, 2021 at 7:16:47 PM
permalink
Quote: darkozQuote: gordonm888Quote: MichaelBluejayExercise: Make a wild estimate of how long it will take for everyone to become mostly immune to COVID through either vaccination or previous infection.
My recent obsession is that efficiency of the Pfizer vaccine is clearly declining with time (I have many extended family members who seemingly lost the vaccination lottery and got the Pfizer vaccine.) There is not much announced data on the Moderna and J&J vaccines -although what I have seen so far is that the efficiency of Moderna vaccine seems to be holding up.
Your analysis assumes, as a starting point, that once we are vaccinated or infected that we are permanently protected to some reasonable extent. But given the 800 day timeframe that you calculate, I feel pretty certain that all the Pfizer vaccinnees (is that a word?) will need to be re-vaxed, and maybe others.
Unless our medical technology realizes some breakthroughs on controlling/curing Covid, I am afraid that many good things will be lost.link to original post
I understood this from the very beginning.
Vaccines were the most idiotic way to go.
What is needed are therapeutics. So you get sick, go to doctor, get an injection and go home. You don't get any sicker.
Only need medicine enough for those who get sick. You don't need to inject literally the entire world
Of course big pharma companies saw a bigger cash cow if they had the entire world as a patient, oh and guess what, boosters required for the entire world annually.
So, the entire world has gotten suckered by greed!link to original post
But there is no effective medicine against it yet and it's not because of lack of research or efforts, it's not that simple.
Vaccines give you a better than decent immunity and chance of avoiding severe illness at virtually no expense in terms of health risk.
Tits are good, but the most important thing is the soul.
September 4th, 2021 at 8:06:42 PM
permalink
Quote: ChumpChangeI had a chickenpox, errr, shingles vaccine a couple months ago and I was sick with a fever for 2-4 days. I get a 2nd shingles shot next week.
link to original post
I got shingles Is week of May. Followed shingle rules, right side of my head forehead right side of nose and into my right eye. I forget E was first letter on eye chart and guessed A. Pain was 5 to 7 with occasional spikes of 10. After a few weeks on oral steroids I had steroid shot in forehead and pain went to 2, but was constant . Eyebrow really bothered me. So another shot 2 weeks later was no help.2 weeks after that I had needle in forehand and electric shock to nerve ending. Eye brow pain free now but forehead and head still a 2. I can handle that. If you are over 50 you might want to consider a singles shot.People have gone bling in one eye due to shingles. Just hoping this goes away sometime soon,
Last edited by: OnceDear on Sep 5, 2021
September 4th, 2021 at 8:44:14 PM
permalink
I wonder what the infected can expect later in life from the China Virus. Early onset dementia perhaps?
September 4th, 2021 at 9:21:28 PM
permalink
Quote: rawtuffQuote: darkozQuote: gordonm888Quote: MichaelBluejayExercise: Make a wild estimate of how long it will take for everyone to become mostly immune to COVID through either vaccination or previous infection.
My recent obsession is that efficiency of the Pfizer vaccine is clearly declining with time (I have many extended family members who seemingly lost the vaccination lottery and got the Pfizer vaccine.) There is not much announced data on the Moderna and J&J vaccines -although what I have seen so far is that the efficiency of Moderna vaccine seems to be holding up.
Your analysis assumes, as a starting point, that once we are vaccinated or infected that we are permanently protected to some reasonable extent. But given the 800 day timeframe that you calculate, I feel pretty certain that all the Pfizer vaccinnees (is that a word?) will need to be re-vaxed, and maybe others.
Unless our medical technology realizes some breakthroughs on controlling/curing Covid, I am afraid that many good things will be lost.link to original post
I understood this from the very beginning.
Vaccines were the most idiotic way to go.
What is needed are therapeutics. So you get sick, go to doctor, get an injection and go home. You don't get any sicker.
Only need medicine enough for those who get sick. You don't need to inject literally the entire world
Of course big pharma companies saw a bigger cash cow if they had the entire world as a patient, oh and guess what, boosters required for the entire world annually.
So, the entire world has gotten suckered by greed!link to original post
But there is no effective medicine against it yet and it's not because of lack of research or efforts, it's not that simple.
Vaccines give you a better than decent immunity and chance of avoiding severe illness at virtually no expense in terms of health risk.link to original post
I hate to break it to this forum but there have been therapeutic treatment for coronavirus for a while now.
The truth has been purposefully hidden by the FDA through corruption of the big pharmaceutical companies.
Hundreds of thousands of Americans have died because of corporate greed by the FDA purposefully sabotaging or slow-walking development
I know posters on here will think I am being one-sided because of my investment in Leronlimab from Cytodyn.
But slowly as the vaccines prove to just give rise to more mutations and as poorer countries like Brazil, who can't vaccinate the entire country discover the truth, the FDA is looking to protect themselves from scrutiny.
Check out Dr. Fauci discussion of the under utilized Monoclonal Antibodies in this YouTube video.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=l7tB8Rd6WRE
Ask yourself where are these Monoclonal Antibodies that Fauci is discussing? Ask yourself what is the name of even one of these Monoclonal Antibodies which are otherwise known as MAB's (for Monoclonal AntiBodies)
Yeah, let me give you a hint. LeronliMAB. Like all drugs it's last three letters describe the drug type.
Fauci is literally telling you about the under utilized MAB's while the FDA is saying they haven't been proven to work. Fauci is literally covering his ass and probably the FDA for when the truth comes out he can point and say he mentioned it
Soon the truth will come out. Brazil isn't playing this dangerous game and is in the middle of Leronlimab trials. If their results validate Leronlimab I suspect the FDA will save face with some cooked up explanation of why they suddenly recognize it as a treatment that sends you home when you get sick.
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
September 4th, 2021 at 10:05:55 PM
permalink
Quote: darkozQuote: rawtuffQuote: darkozQuote: gordonm888Quote: MichaelBluejayExercise: Make a wild estimate of how long it will take for everyone to become mostly immune to COVID through either vaccination or previous infection.
My recent obsession is that efficiency of the Pfizer vaccine is clearly declining with time (I have many extended family members who seemingly lost the vaccination lottery and got the Pfizer vaccine.) There is not much announced data on the Moderna and J&J vaccines -although what I have seen so far is that the efficiency of Moderna vaccine seems to be holding up.
Your analysis assumes, as a starting point, that once we are vaccinated or infected that we are permanently protected to some reasonable extent. But given the 800 day timeframe that you calculate, I feel pretty certain that all the Pfizer vaccinnees (is that a word?) will need to be re-vaxed, and maybe others.
Unless our medical technology realizes some breakthroughs on controlling/curing Covid, I am afraid that many good things will be lost.link to original post
I understood this from the very beginning.
Vaccines were the most idiotic way to go.
What is needed are therapeutics. So you get sick, go to doctor, get an injection and go home. You don't get any sicker.
Only need medicine enough for those who get sick. You don't need to inject literally the entire world
Of course big pharma companies saw a bigger cash cow if they had the entire world as a patient, oh and guess what, boosters required for the entire world annually.
So, the entire world has gotten suckered by greed!link to original post
But there is no effective medicine against it yet and it's not because of lack of research or efforts, it's not that simple.
Vaccines give you a better than decent immunity and chance of avoiding severe illness at virtually no expense in terms of health risk.link to original post
I hate to break it to this forum but there have been therapeutic treatment for coronavirus for a while now.
The truth has been purposefully hidden by the FDA through corruption of the big pharmaceutical companies.
Hundreds of thousands of Americans have died because of corporate greed by the FDA purposefully sabotaging or slow-walking development
I know posters on here will think I am being one-sided because of my investment in Leronlimab from Cytodyn.
But slowly as the vaccines prove to just give rise to more mutations and as poorer countries like Brazil, who can't vaccinate the entire country discover the truth, the FDA is looking to protect themselves from scrutiny.
Check out Dr. Fauci discussion of the under utilized Monoclonal Antibodies in this YouTube video.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=l7tB8Rd6WRE
Ask yourself where are these Monoclonal Antibodies that Fauci is discussing? Ask yourself what is the name of even one of these Monoclonal Antibodies which are otherwise known as MAB's (for Monoclonal AntiBodies)
Yeah, let me give you a hint. LeronliMAB. Like all drugs it's last three letters describe the drug type.
Fauci is literally telling you about the under utilized MAB's while the FDA is saying they haven't been proven to work. Fauci is literally covering his ass and probably the FDA for when the truth comes out he can point and say he mentioned it
Soon the truth will come out. Brazil isn't playing this dangerous game and is in the middle of Leronlimab trials. If their results validate Leronlimab I suspect the FDA will save face with some cooked up explanation of why they suddenly recognize it as a treatment that sends you home when you get sick.link to original post
I don't know about that, the Cytodyn ceo himself on their own data of phase 3 trial:
Nader Pourhassan, president and chief executive of CytoDyn, commented: “Today, there are no approved drugs to effectively address the unmet medical need for critically ill COVID-19 patients. Our CD12 study demonstrates leronlimab is particularly effective in treating this patient population. We believe these results are the best results ever achieved for this population in a Phase III clinical trial. A recently approved IL-6 blocker used to treat severe to critical hospitalized COVID-19 patients requiring mechanical ventilation, reduced mortality by 2% compared to the placebo group. In contrast, leronlimab demonstrated a reduction of 24% in mortality compared to the SoC treated group, which is 12 times better in reducing all-cause mortality for critically ill COVID-19 patients. The company is very excited about these results and is concurrently working with regulators here and abroad to expedite leronlimab’s approval to treat COVID-19.”
While those results do seem better than nothing it definitely isn't "a treatment that sends you home when you get sick".
There is no magic bullet treatment to this disease, so far at least, and mass vaccination is the only thing we've got at the current stage in hope to end this nightmare.
Tits are good, but the most important thing is the soul.
September 4th, 2021 at 10:48:12 PM
permalink
Quote: rawtuffQuote: darkozQuote: rawtuffQuote: darkozQuote: gordonm888Quote: MichaelBluejayExercise: Make a wild estimate of how long it will take for everyone to become mostly immune to COVID through either vaccination or previous infection.
My recent obsession is that efficiency of the Pfizer vaccine is clearly declining with time (I have many extended family members who seemingly lost the vaccination lottery and got the Pfizer vaccine.) There is not much announced data on the Moderna and J&J vaccines -although what I have seen so far is that the efficiency of Moderna vaccine seems to be holding up.
Your analysis assumes, as a starting point, that once we are vaccinated or infected that we are permanently protected to some reasonable extent. But given the 800 day timeframe that you calculate, I feel pretty certain that all the Pfizer vaccinnees (is that a word?) will need to be re-vaxed, and maybe others.
Unless our medical technology realizes some breakthroughs on controlling/curing Covid, I am afraid that many good things will be lost.link to original post
I understood this from the very beginning.
Vaccines were the most idiotic way to go.
What is needed are therapeutics. So you get sick, go to doctor, get an injection and go home. You don't get any sicker.
Only need medicine enough for those who get sick. You don't need to inject literally the entire world
Of course big pharma companies saw a bigger cash cow if they had the entire world as a patient, oh and guess what, boosters required for the entire world annually.
So, the entire world has gotten suckered by greed!link to original post
But there is no effective medicine against it yet and it's not because of lack of research or efforts, it's not that simple.
Vaccines give you a better than decent immunity and chance of avoiding severe illness at virtually no expense in terms of health risk.link to original post
I hate to break it to this forum but there have been therapeutic treatment for coronavirus for a while now.
The truth has been purposefully hidden by the FDA through corruption of the big pharmaceutical companies.
Hundreds of thousands of Americans have died because of corporate greed by the FDA purposefully sabotaging or slow-walking development
I know posters on here will think I am being one-sided because of my investment in Leronlimab from Cytodyn.
But slowly as the vaccines prove to just give rise to more mutations and as poorer countries like Brazil, who can't vaccinate the entire country discover the truth, the FDA is looking to protect themselves from scrutiny.
Check out Dr. Fauci discussion of the under utilized Monoclonal Antibodies in this YouTube video.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=l7tB8Rd6WRE
Ask yourself where are these Monoclonal Antibodies that Fauci is discussing? Ask yourself what is the name of even one of these Monoclonal Antibodies which are otherwise known as MAB's (for Monoclonal AntiBodies)
Yeah, let me give you a hint. LeronliMAB. Like all drugs it's last three letters describe the drug type.
Fauci is literally telling you about the under utilized MAB's while the FDA is saying they haven't been proven to work. Fauci is literally covering his ass and probably the FDA for when the truth comes out he can point and say he mentioned it
Soon the truth will come out. Brazil isn't playing this dangerous game and is in the middle of Leronlimab trials. If their results validate Leronlimab I suspect the FDA will save face with some cooked up explanation of why they suddenly recognize it as a treatment that sends you home when you get sick.link to original post
I don't know about that, the Cytodyn ceo himself on their own data of phase 3 trial:
Nader Pourhassan, president and chief executive of CytoDyn, commented: “Today, there are no approved drugs to effectively address the unmet medical need for critically ill COVID-19 patients. Our CD12 study demonstrates leronlimab is particularly effective in treating this patient population. We believe these results are the best results ever achieved for this population in a Phase III clinical trial. A recently approved IL-6 blocker used to treat severe to critical hospitalized COVID-19 patients requiring mechanical ventilation, reduced mortality by 2% compared to the placebo group. In contrast, leronlimab demonstrated a reduction of 24% in mortality compared to the SoC treated group, which is 12 times better in reducing all-cause mortality for critically ill COVID-19 patients. The company is very excited about these results and is concurrently working with regulators here and abroad to expedite leronlimab’s approval to treat COVID-19.”
While those results do seem better than nothing it definitely isn't "a treatment that sends you home when you get sick".
There is no magic bullet treatment to this disease, so far at least, and mass vaccination is the only thing we've got at the current stage in hope to end this nightmare.link to original post
The problem is the FDA purposefully sabotaging the trials
They insisted the trials go four weeks but only two injections. LeronliMAB is a weekly dose losing its vitality after seven days and the FDA knew this as it's been used once weekly to treat HIV.
HIV doesn't go away so Leronlimab would be needed for life but with Covid four weekly injections and done.
So what were the full results?
Day zero injection
Day seven (one week from injection) 79% better than SOC
Day fourteen (seven days from second injection) 82% better than SOC.
Day twenty-one (fourteen days from second injection) 54% better than SOC.
Day twenty-eight (twenty-one days from last injection) 24% better than SOC.
Study that and it's obvious the drug wasn't stellar results at the endpoints because the FDA insisted the drug stopped being used at the second injection.
I mean, what a novel idea to actually give the drug to see if it works. It's equivalent to testing a seven day antibiotic for three days and then claiming see it didn't work.
The Brazil trials are for four weekly injections. If by the fourth week (fifth actually being one week after injection) the trial shows similar improvement in the 80+% then watch the FDA work to cover their ass.
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
September 4th, 2021 at 11:21:14 PM
permalink
Quote: darkozQuote: rawtuffQuote: darkozQuote: rawtuffQuote: darkozQuote: gordonm888Quote: MichaelBluejayExercise: Make a wild estimate of how long it will take for everyone to become mostly immune to COVID through either vaccination or previous infection.
My recent obsession is that efficiency of the Pfizer vaccine is clearly declining with time (I have many extended family members who seemingly lost the vaccination lottery and got the Pfizer vaccine.) There is not much announced data on the Moderna and J&J vaccines -although what I have seen so far is that the efficiency of Moderna vaccine seems to be holding up.
Your analysis assumes, as a starting point, that once we are vaccinated or infected that we are permanently protected to some reasonable extent. But given the 800 day timeframe that you calculate, I feel pretty certain that all the Pfizer vaccinnees (is that a word?) will need to be re-vaxed, and maybe others.
Unless our medical technology realizes some breakthroughs on controlling/curing Covid, I am afraid that many good things will be lost.link to original post
I understood this from the very beginning.
Vaccines were the most idiotic way to go.
What is needed are therapeutics. So you get sick, go to doctor, get an injection and go home. You don't get any sicker.
Only need medicine enough for those who get sick. You don't need to inject literally the entire world
Of course big pharma companies saw a bigger cash cow if they had the entire world as a patient, oh and guess what, boosters required for the entire world annually.
So, the entire world has gotten suckered by greed!link to original post
But there is no effective medicine against it yet and it's not because of lack of research or efforts, it's not that simple.
Vaccines give you a better than decent immunity and chance of avoiding severe illness at virtually no expense in terms of health risk.link to original post
I hate to break it to this forum but there have been therapeutic treatment for coronavirus for a while now.
The truth has been purposefully hidden by the FDA through corruption of the big pharmaceutical companies.
Hundreds of thousands of Americans have died because of corporate greed by the FDA purposefully sabotaging or slow-walking development
I know posters on here will think I am being one-sided because of my investment in Leronlimab from Cytodyn.
But slowly as the vaccines prove to just give rise to more mutations and as poorer countries like Brazil, who can't vaccinate the entire country discover the truth, the FDA is looking to protect themselves from scrutiny.
Check out Dr. Fauci discussion of the under utilized Monoclonal Antibodies in this YouTube video.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=l7tB8Rd6WRE
Ask yourself where are these Monoclonal Antibodies that Fauci is discussing? Ask yourself what is the name of even one of these Monoclonal Antibodies which are otherwise known as MAB's (for Monoclonal AntiBodies)
Yeah, let me give you a hint. LeronliMAB. Like all drugs it's last three letters describe the drug type.
Fauci is literally telling you about the under utilized MAB's while the FDA is saying they haven't been proven to work. Fauci is literally covering his ass and probably the FDA for when the truth comes out he can point and say he mentioned it
Soon the truth will come out. Brazil isn't playing this dangerous game and is in the middle of Leronlimab trials. If their results validate Leronlimab I suspect the FDA will save face with some cooked up explanation of why they suddenly recognize it as a treatment that sends you home when you get sick.link to original post
I don't know about that, the Cytodyn ceo himself on their own data of phase 3 trial:
Nader Pourhassan, president and chief executive of CytoDyn, commented: “Today, there are no approved drugs to effectively address the unmet medical need for critically ill COVID-19 patients. Our CD12 study demonstrates leronlimab is particularly effective in treating this patient population. We believe these results are the best results ever achieved for this population in a Phase III clinical trial. A recently approved IL-6 blocker used to treat severe to critical hospitalized COVID-19 patients requiring mechanical ventilation, reduced mortality by 2% compared to the placebo group. In contrast, leronlimab demonstrated a reduction of 24% in mortality compared to the SoC treated group, which is 12 times better in reducing all-cause mortality for critically ill COVID-19 patients. The company is very excited about these results and is concurrently working with regulators here and abroad to expedite leronlimab’s approval to treat COVID-19.”
While those results do seem better than nothing it definitely isn't "a treatment that sends you home when you get sick".
There is no magic bullet treatment to this disease, so far at least, and mass vaccination is the only thing we've got at the current stage in hope to end this nightmare.link to original post
The problem is the FDA purposefully sabotaging the trials
They insisted the trials go four weeks but only two injections.
Day zero injection
Day seven (one week from injection) 79% better than SOC
Day fourteen (seven days from second injection) 82% better than SOC.
Day twenty-one (fourteen days from second injection) 54% better than SOC.
Day twenty-eight (twenty-one days from last injection) 24% better than SOC.link to original post
Can you post here an official source for those? Source for FDA forcing them to cut in halve the recommended treatment for the trials?
And source for those day to day results?
thanks
Tits are good, but the most important thing is the soul.
September 5th, 2021 at 1:12:15 AM
permalink
Quote: rawtuffQuote: darkozQuote: rawtuffQuote: darkozQuote: rawtuffQuote: darkozQuote: gordonm888Quote: MichaelBluejayExercise: Make a wild estimate of how long it will take for everyone to become mostly immune to COVID through either vaccination or previous infection.
My recent obsession is that efficiency of the Pfizer vaccine is clearly declining with time (I have many extended family members who seemingly lost the vaccination lottery and got the Pfizer vaccine.) There is not much announced data on the Moderna and J&J vaccines -although what I have seen so far is that the efficiency of Moderna vaccine seems to be holding up.
Your analysis assumes, as a starting point, that once we are vaccinated or infected that we are permanently protected to some reasonable extent. But given the 800 day timeframe that you calculate, I feel pretty certain that all the Pfizer vaccinnees (is that a word?) will need to be re-vaxed, and maybe others.
Unless our medical technology realizes some breakthroughs on controlling/curing Covid, I am afraid that many good things will be lost.link to original post
I understood this from the very beginning.
Vaccines were the most idiotic way to go.
What is needed are therapeutics. So you get sick, go to doctor, get an injection and go home. You don't get any sicker.
Only need medicine enough for those who get sick. You don't need to inject literally the entire world
Of course big pharma companies saw a bigger cash cow if they had the entire world as a patient, oh and guess what, boosters required for the entire world annually.
So, the entire world has gotten suckered by greed!link to original post
But there is no effective medicine against it yet and it's not because of lack of research or efforts, it's not that simple.
Vaccines give you a better than decent immunity and chance of avoiding severe illness at virtually no expense in terms of health risk.link to original post
I hate to break it to this forum but there have been therapeutic treatment for coronavirus for a while now.
The truth has been purposefully hidden by the FDA through corruption of the big pharmaceutical companies.
Hundreds of thousands of Americans have died because of corporate greed by the FDA purposefully sabotaging or slow-walking development
I know posters on here will think I am being one-sided because of my investment in Leronlimab from Cytodyn.
But slowly as the vaccines prove to just give rise to more mutations and as poorer countries like Brazil, who can't vaccinate the entire country discover the truth, the FDA is looking to protect themselves from scrutiny.
Check out Dr. Fauci discussion of the under utilized Monoclonal Antibodies in this YouTube video.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=l7tB8Rd6WRE
Ask yourself where are these Monoclonal Antibodies that Fauci is discussing? Ask yourself what is the name of even one of these Monoclonal Antibodies which are otherwise known as MAB's (for Monoclonal AntiBodies)
Yeah, let me give you a hint. LeronliMAB. Like all drugs it's last three letters describe the drug type.
Fauci is literally telling you about the under utilized MAB's while the FDA is saying they haven't been proven to work. Fauci is literally covering his ass and probably the FDA for when the truth comes out he can point and say he mentioned it
Soon the truth will come out. Brazil isn't playing this dangerous game and is in the middle of Leronlimab trials. If their results validate Leronlimab I suspect the FDA will save face with some cooked up explanation of why they suddenly recognize it as a treatment that sends you home when you get sick.link to original post
I don't know about that, the Cytodyn ceo himself on their own data of phase 3 trial:
Nader Pourhassan, president and chief executive of CytoDyn, commented: “Today, there are no approved drugs to effectively address the unmet medical need for critically ill COVID-19 patients. Our CD12 study demonstrates leronlimab is particularly effective in treating this patient population. We believe these results are the best results ever achieved for this population in a Phase III clinical trial. A recently approved IL-6 blocker used to treat severe to critical hospitalized COVID-19 patients requiring mechanical ventilation, reduced mortality by 2% compared to the placebo group. In contrast, leronlimab demonstrated a reduction of 24% in mortality compared to the SoC treated group, which is 12 times better in reducing all-cause mortality for critically ill COVID-19 patients. The company is very excited about these results and is concurrently working with regulators here and abroad to expedite leronlimab’s approval to treat COVID-19.”
While those results do seem better than nothing it definitely isn't "a treatment that sends you home when you get sick".
There is no magic bullet treatment to this disease, so far at least, and mass vaccination is the only thing we've got at the current stage in hope to end this nightmare.link to original post
The problem is the FDA purposefully sabotaging the trials
They insisted the trials go four weeks but only two injections.
Day zero injection
Day seven (one week from injection) 79% better than SOC
Day fourteen (seven days from second injection) 82% better than SOC.
Day twenty-one (fourteen days from second injection) 54% better than SOC.
Day twenty-eight (twenty-one days from last injection) 24% better than SOC.link to original post
Can you post here an official source for those? Source for FDA forcing them to cut in halve the recommended treatment for the trials?
And source for those day to day results?
thankslink to original post
The FDA forcing them to go with just two doses was mentioned in a Cytodyn Conference call a year ago. It didn't make any sense and their lead doctor expressed reservation that the doses weren't going to be followed through with the third and fourth week of the study.
The FDA isn't going to print a claim they forced a reduced efficacy drug trial.
Here is a pic of HIV studies for Leronlimab. Note they are all for many many weeks with no serious side effects and great results.
Then notice the pic of the Covid trial stuck at two measly doses and the outcome.
Now it's not like they didn't understand the mechanism and half-life.
Here is an article which I took the following photo from
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7546180/#!po=13.3929
SO PRECISELY WHAT AFFECT DID THEY EXPECT MEASURING LERONLIMAB THREE WEEKS AFTER THE LAST DOSE ADMINISTRATION?
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
September 5th, 2021 at 1:48:43 AM
permalink
Over 200,000 shots were given at my local mass vaccination site as of 4 months ago. I can't wait for my booster shot next February.
September 5th, 2021 at 4:23:14 AM
permalink
Risk benefit ratio. I am (most likely) getting my Moderna 3rd shot on Tuesday. I will be 6.5 months out from my initial doses. I will most likely be sick for 8 hours or so if it mimics my response from second dose. I believe it is worth it for the bump in immunity I’ll be getting. Two weeks after that I’ll be getting my flu shot. A month or so ago I finished Shingrix shots. I’m only 61 so no pneumovax shot yet!
I’ll update forum on side effects of booster shot.
Shingrix shots were pretty painful in actual arm that was poked, but I had no other side effects.
I’ll update forum on side effects of booster shot.
Shingrix shots were pretty painful in actual arm that was poked, but I had no other side effects.
September 5th, 2021 at 4:50:06 AM
permalink
Quote: gordonm888link to original post
Unless our medical technology realizes some breakthroughs on controlling/curing Covid, I am afraid that many good things will be lost.
They are only lost if you decide to let the thing rule your life. Many people seem to be happy to do so. Others go on. I was very happy tp see the jammed full stadiums watching college football yesterday, only an occasional person with a mask.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
September 5th, 2021 at 4:56:26 AM
permalink
Quote: MichaelBluejayHow will the world look like with ineffective vaccines and a 20% mortality rate?
We kind of know, look to the results of the Black Death. Initially, things would be pretty bad. Some smaller towns would finally die out. But after that things will recover, maybe to the better. In places with insane housing costs like California said costs would fall dramatically as housing and land costs would crash. Labor would be paid more what with 20% less labor available. Since the virus tends to take out the obese and other people in weak health we would see improvement in the general health of the population.
Now, it might shorten my prediction that mankind will be extinct by the year 3000 by 100 years or so. But in the meantime a better life for those left behind.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
September 5th, 2021 at 5:41:07 AM
permalink
Where does this idea come that COVID is some sort of major permanent disability for society to deal with?
Vaccines get reformulated for the flu when necessary. That's where we're going with this? Yes, this is something (similar to plagues of old) that we're not used to. That is, an out of control infection, rather than what were used to.
Question for DarkOz. It's not so much that another treatment isn't possible. What is the cost of treatment you think the public is willing to pay compared to what they would pay for a vaccine? It has to be competitive.
.
Vaccines get reformulated for the flu when necessary. That's where we're going with this? Yes, this is something (similar to plagues of old) that we're not used to. That is, an out of control infection, rather than what were used to.
Question for DarkOz. It's not so much that another treatment isn't possible. What is the cost of treatment you think the public is willing to pay compared to what they would pay for a vaccine? It has to be competitive.
.
There's no secret. Just know what you're talking about before you open your mouth.
September 5th, 2021 at 6:23:37 AM
permalink
Quote: MichaelBluejayExercise: Make a wild estimate of how long it will take for everyone to become mostly immune to COVID through either vaccination or previous infection. As per reports, surviving Delta confers at least as much immunity as a vaccine.
I predict never in our lifetimes. There will be two things that will stop the coronavirus from being a pandemic.
-At any given time, about 60 - 80% of us will have enough immune support to not catch it and spread it. Of the 60 - 120 million other Americans, they will be much better at fighting it off than we were in 2020 - 21, due to previous exposure. Millions will catch it every year and stay home for a few days, then they will join the ranks of the immune, while some of us who haven't been exposed in over a year will join the ranks of the vulnerable.
-The other thing is the opposite of this "except by then we might be up to the Zeta variant which kills on contact." If that were to happen, the pandemic would end, because the virus would stop spreading. The opposite is much more likely: it becomes less deadly and more contagious. With enough people who are protected from it, it becomes just another germ. If people simply wore masks at the first sign of illness, it would definitely make it even less of a problem. But there are far too many who just want to see the world burn and would never do that.
September 5th, 2021 at 6:27:45 AM
permalink
edit this one
September 5th, 2021 at 8:46:28 AM
permalink
Quote: rxwineWhere does this idea come that COVID is some sort of major permanent disability for society to deal with?
link to original post
Vaccines get reformulated for the flu when necessary. That's where we're going with this? Yes, this is something (similar to plagues of old) that we're not used to. That is, an out of control infection, rather than what were used to.
Question for DarkOz. It's not so much that another treatment isn't possible. What is the cost of treatment you think the public is willing to pay compared to what they would pay for a vaccine? It has to be competitive.
.
I'm not saying people shouldn't get vaccinated. The vaccines appear to work.
I'm saying there was never any hope of vaccinating the entire country much less the entire world.
For those that don't get vaccinated there have been MAB treatment like Leronlimab so when you get sick you don't die.
And the FDA has slow walked that because it would harm their vaccination efforts.
You can't get half the country to get vaccinated as people are dying. What happens when you take death off the table?
So to get you vaccinated they have done what they can to slow walk Leronlimab and once they have squeezed enough of their cash cow that they can or Brazil forces their hand (can't have a third world country the only ones with such a great molecule can we) they will approve Leronlimab.
But how many Americans will have needless died when treatment (like Fauci says are being under utilized) could have been approved a year ago?
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
September 5th, 2021 at 11:03:23 AM
permalink
Quote: AZDuffmanQuote: gordonm888link to original post
Unless our medical technology realizes some breakthroughs on controlling/curing Covid, I am afraid that many good things will be lost.
They are only lost if you decide to let the thing rule your life. Many people seem to be happy to do so. Others go on. I was very happy tp see the jammed full stadiums watching college football yesterday, only an occasional person with a mask.link to original post
I was considering that things that might be lost were:
- the economic vitality of Las Vegas
- the live theatre industry and community: both professional theater and community theater
- countless small businesses and restaurants, movie theaters, etc.
- sports programs in small colleges and universities
I have been enjoying the opening weekend for college football as well, but I'm uncertain of the what the consequences will be. Lane Kiffin, head coach for Ole Miss, has just announced he has tested positive for Covid despite having been previously vaccinated and despite his tean having a 100% vaccination rate. This is the kind of concern I have been harping on, and CFB rules seem to be predicated on vaccinations being a silver bullet.
So many better men, a few of them friends, are dead. And a thousand thousand slimy things live on, and so do I.
September 5th, 2021 at 11:20:53 AM
permalink
DarkOz's allegations about the FDA are the first time in quite a while where I have found myself agreeing with his pro-Leronimab statements.
There are some therapeutic drugs that have emerged in other countries, e.g., Israel, that are low-cost, have undergone trials and are reportedly being used successfully to reduce hospitalization and death rates.
- These foreign drugs are not endorsed by the FDA because the FDA has not conducted trials, or yet finished their trials. The results of foreign trials are not accepted by the FDA because they are a U.S.bureaucracy whose power and existence depends upon their exclusive right to set the rules for trials and to approve drugs.
- Apparently Pfizer is developing a therapeutic drug, but its not available now. You can bet that if it comes available, it will be far more expensive than the currently available drugs from other nations.
So, there is a growing conspiracy theory that the FDA is in bed with certain pharmaceutical companies. Not certain about all aspects of that theory, but there may be something to it. There is an enormous amount of money at stake, and money corrupts.
There are some therapeutic drugs that have emerged in other countries, e.g., Israel, that are low-cost, have undergone trials and are reportedly being used successfully to reduce hospitalization and death rates.
- These foreign drugs are not endorsed by the FDA because the FDA has not conducted trials, or yet finished their trials. The results of foreign trials are not accepted by the FDA because they are a U.S.bureaucracy whose power and existence depends upon their exclusive right to set the rules for trials and to approve drugs.
- Apparently Pfizer is developing a therapeutic drug, but its not available now. You can bet that if it comes available, it will be far more expensive than the currently available drugs from other nations.
So, there is a growing conspiracy theory that the FDA is in bed with certain pharmaceutical companies. Not certain about all aspects of that theory, but there may be something to it. There is an enormous amount of money at stake, and money corrupts.
So many better men, a few of them friends, are dead. And a thousand thousand slimy things live on, and so do I.
September 5th, 2021 at 11:34:34 AM
permalink
As far as I can tell, the people pushing the FDA is in bed with big pharma almost always also subscribe to other conspiracy theories such as the vaccine makes you magnetic, the vaccine comes from aborted fetuses, the election was stolen, the Pope is part of the illuminati and so on and so forth. I suppose there is a chance they are wrong on everything else but got this one right. That's the ticket.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
September 5th, 2021 at 11:39:21 AM
permalink
Pulled from multiple sources for normal and expediated process.
Quote:Clinical trials alone take six to seven years on average to complete. Before a potential treatment reaches the clinical trial stage, scientists research ideas in what is called the discovery phase. This step can take from three to six years.
Quote:
In the United States, it takes an average of 12 years for an experimental drug to travel from the laboratory to your medicine cabinet.
Quote:expedited drugs can take 5.5. to 11 years.
There's no secret. Just know what you're talking about before you open your mouth.
September 5th, 2021 at 11:40:38 AM
permalink
Quote: gordonm888DarkOz's allegations about the FDA are the first time in quite a while where I have found myself agreeing with his pro-Leronimab statements.
link to original post
There are some therapeutic drugs that have emerged in other countries, e.g., Israel, that are low-cost, have undergone trials and are reportedly being used successfully to reduce hospitalization and death rates.
- These foreign drugs are not endorsed by the FDA because the FDA has not conducted trials, or yet finished their trials. The results of foreign trials are not accepted by the FDA because they are a U.S.bureaucracy whose power and existence depends upon their exclusive right to set the rules for trials and to approve drugs.
- Apparently Pfizer is developing a therapeutic drug, but its not available now. You can bet that if it comes available, it will be far more expensive than the currently available drugs from other nations.
So, there is a growing conspiracy theory that the FDA is in bed with certain pharmaceutical companies. Not certain about all aspects of that theory, but there may be something to it. There is an enormous amount of money at stake, and money corrupts.
Gordon, the FDA receives much of it's funding from big pharma companies.
Industry user fees! Translation big pharma fees.
It's not an unusual setup here in the USA.
For example a similar situation involves the MPAA. The motion picture administration is funded by the big six studios and historical evidence shows incredible leeway given to films funded by their bread and butter.
Literally exactly shot and edited similar scenes from an indie studio will get (previously) an X rating or (now) NC-17 while a studio film won't.
The big pharma situation is no different. It's a conflict of interest to be funded by those you have oversight of.
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
September 5th, 2021 at 11:57:24 AM
permalink
Quote: gordonm888
I was considering that things that might be lost were:
- the economic vitality of Las Vegas
- the live theatre industry and community: both professional theater and community theater
- countless small businesses and restaurants, movie theaters, etc.
- sports programs in small colleges and universities
These things will only be "lost" if people keep demanding we hide at home on some off chance someone might get sick. The people who want to hide at home are dead already. Take a look at the crowds in places from this week's college football to Sturgis last month. These are people who are wanting to live life. They are not going to let some virus scare them to death.
We have seen the dead on this site, rationalizing that they will prefer sitting behind plexiglass at the Blackjack table no matter how much it resembles a prison visiting room. They say it is "all good" or that they like how it keeps smoke away or any other thing they come up with. Sort of like someone saying that no big deal the communists took their house since they did not like mowing the lawn.
Vegas has bigger problems than a virus to worry about. This decade it appears we will see why it is a bad idea to have a huge population center in the middle of a desert.
Back on point. Get out and you will see that most people do want their lives back. From the filled stadiums to how few still wear masks in the grocery store. We will be fine if only the politicians will let us be.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
September 5th, 2021 at 12:18:40 PM
permalink
Schools are shutting down because teachers are dying in mask ban states. It hasn't even been a month.
38K children had COVID in July, 204K children had COVID in August, and the hospitals are out of room.
38K children had COVID in July, 204K children had COVID in August, and the hospitals are out of room.
September 5th, 2021 at 12:20:12 PM
permalink
15 teachers died this week in the Miami-Dade School District, according to reports.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
September 5th, 2021 at 12:42:39 PM
permalink
Quote: billryanAs far as I can tell, the people pushing the FDA is in bed with big pharma almost always also subscribe to other conspiracy theories such as the vaccine makes you magnetic, the vaccine comes from aborted fetuses, the election was stolen, the Pope is part of the illuminati and so on and so forth. I suppose there is a chance they are wrong on everything else but got this one right. That's the ticket.
link to original post
Maybe I ask too much, but I not only prefer motive and opportunity, but actual evidence. Even worse, I like to look for alternate explanations for why something happened that might be possible and reasonable. Even lots of circumstantial evidence is not necessarily enough. Richard Jewel had plenty of indicators to make people think he was the Atlanta bomber.
Not to say, I don't enjoy thinking we have visitation in alien spacecraft. But I still haven's seen bits of a craft, or pieces of aliens; but the films are nice additions. But not enough, IMO.
There's no secret. Just know what you're talking about before you open your mouth.
September 5th, 2021 at 1:37:32 PM
permalink
Quote: rxwineQuote: billryanAs far as I can tell, the people pushing the FDA is in bed with big pharma almost always also subscribe to other conspiracy theories such as the vaccine makes you magnetic, the vaccine comes from aborted fetuses, the election was stolen, the Pope is part of the illuminati and so on and so forth. I suppose there is a chance they are wrong on everything else but got this one right. That's the ticket.
link to original post
Maybe I ask too much, but I not only prefer motive and opportunity, but actual evidence. Even worse, I like to look for alternate explanations for why something happened that might be possible and reasonable. Even lots of circumstantial evidence is not necessarily enough. Richard Jewel had plenty of indicators to make people think he was the Atlanta bomber.
Not to say, I don't enjoy thinking we have visitation in alien spacecraft. But I still haven's seen bits of a craft, or pieces of aliens; but the films are nice additions. But not enough, IMO.link to original post
FDA corruption evidence is literally so massive it's ridiculous people claim it's all a conspiracy theory.
https://www.science.org/news/2018/07/hidden-conflicts-pharma-payments-fda-advisers-after-drug-approvals-spark-ethical
https://www.madinamerica.com/2020/08/fda-whistleblowers-documents-commerce-corruption-death/
https://www.npr.org/2021/06/11/1005567149/3-experts-have-resigned-from-an-fda-committee-over-alzheimers-drug-approval
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
September 5th, 2021 at 1:48:48 PM
permalink
Quote: billryan15 teachers died this week in the Miami-Dade School District, according to reports.
link to original post
Seems a little hard to believe, what has school been back in, 2 weeks?
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
September 5th, 2021 at 1:52:43 PM
permalink
Quote: AZDuffmanQuote: billryan15 teachers died this week in the Miami-Dade School District, according to reports.
link to original post
Seems a little hard to believe, what has school been back in, 2 weeks?link to original post
Ten days.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
September 5th, 2021 at 1:55:33 PM
permalink
Quote: darkozFDA corruption evidence is literally so massive it's ridiculous people claim it's all a conspiracy theory
you're right about the FDA screwing up and\or having instances of corruption but its not conspiratorial
there's no rhyme or reason to it
it's random - just like the screw ups and\or corruption in just about all Government agencies
there's no general mission or plan behind all these screw ups - somebody picks a pocket here somebody picks a pocket there
it's just humans being humans - where they see a chance to line their pockets and cheat some - definitely not all - do so
the conspiracists wrongly believe there's a grand plan behind it all
that's totally false - these people aren't smart enough to have and execute a grand plan
.
Please don't feed the trolls
September 5th, 2021 at 2:11:00 PM
permalink
Quote: lilredroosteryou're right about the FDA screwing up and\or having instances of corruption but its not conspiratorial
link to original post
there's no rhyme or reason to it
it's random - just like the screw ups and\or corruption in just about all Government agencies
there's no general mission or plan behind all these screw ups - somebody picks a pocket here somebody picks a pocket there
it's just humans being humans - where they see a chance to line their pockets and cheat some - definitely not all - do so
the conspiracists wrongly believe there's a grand plan behind it all
that's totally false - these people aren't smart enough to have and execute a grand plan
.
I wouldn't call it a grand plan.
It's more lining pockets of people who make decisions so that to they make corrupt ones.
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
