AxelWolf
AxelWolf
Joined: Oct 10, 2012
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May 4th, 2016 at 9:40:15 PM permalink
Quote: Paigowdan

.

Richard Brodie got 86ed from Harrah's properties because he hit too many royals on the 100's. That was a serious problem for him because he is also a professional poker player and his banning excluding him from the WSOP. I believe he also worked for Microsoft prior.

EXPLAIN THE UNCLEAN PLAYING PART?
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
Wizardofnothing
Wizardofnothing
Joined: Jul 3, 2015
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May 4th, 2016 at 9:44:17 PM permalink
That was my initial point, dans opinion on this is hogwash , he was actually employee number 8 at Microsoft and worked directly with bill gates and I think developed the original word program:
He hit too many royals and they kicked him out
I was no mailed at a place for the exact same thing
No longer hiring, donít ask because I wonít hire you either
fivespot
fivespot
Joined: Jul 12, 2010
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May 4th, 2016 at 9:47:48 PM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

Palm seems to be tolerant.


Palms is very tolerant. There was one time when a slot supervisor greeted me by name at Palms... not an unusual occurrence, except that this particular slot supervisor had worked at Hard Rock less than a year ago when they'd nomailed me :) I also once had a slot attendant comment about how "they know they're not making money off you" (people playing a particular promotion at particular machines).

It'd seem obvious that if people are beating a casino while following the rules, the issue is with the rules, not the particular people... but it's such a rare thing for casinos to actually have that attitude, that I appreciate it when I do see it.
Paigowdan
Paigowdan
Joined: Apr 28, 2010
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May 4th, 2016 at 9:54:26 PM permalink
Quote: fivespot

Counting cards is playing clean, as you well know.


Yeah, Clean enough to get backed off or 86-ed.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
DiscreteMaths2
DiscreteMaths2
Joined: May 4, 2016
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May 4th, 2016 at 9:57:25 PM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

Disregard anything Dan is saying about this.


Especially #5 That's happened more times than words in one of Romes long posts. Not just a few casinos either.

Casino have and will kick you out for playing clean.

Dan explain how playing a Video Poker progressive is remotely not clean?

Explain how playing a promotion 100% by the rules is not clean?

Didn't you work at a station casino?

I remember they advertise a good promotion one time. A bunch of different people came in a few hours before and started playing. Before the promotion started a bunch of security and suits came and surround the large bank of machines. They just 86ed everyone.

They have also sent certified letters 86ing people for playing good promotions because they were winning to much period.

Just about every major casino in Las Vegas has 86ed Slot and VP Advantage Players who playing clean *Don't believe just me see below.

Casino have 86ed people who WERE NOT AP's or doing anything wrong they were just winning to much.



*Quote from Bob Dancer: "Talking to others, I have found a number of players who have been 86'd from Suncoast for playing BPD on multiple point days. Some get the restraining order for all casinos in the chain and some don't. Suncoast seems to have the intentional philosophy of dangling this game and multiplier as bait. If a player is smart enough to recognize what a good opportunity this is, the casino promptly cuts him off and adds his name to their list of undesirable players."

I could go on and on and on about many instances and many different locations where AP's who played clean have gotten tricked, beaten, threatened, ripped off, kicked out/86ed. All of the above have happen to me personally.

The worst incident was for simply playing a $1 VP progressive. I was trying to happily leave as they asked. I was calm, didn't argue, I didn't say anything except" I'll cash out and leave, but I'm not going to the back room with you. They weren't happy with that, I was 10 feet from the door when they decided to ponce and drag me into the back room.



I just don't get why setting something like a video poker machine to payout what the casino can actually afford is so hard for them to do. Like do casinos think there is some marginal benefit to raising the payouts on video poker that attracts new players that understand the difference in the paytable to incentivized but yet don't actually know how to play the game well so they are still at low return to player ? I think that argument may hold some water for Blackjack but I just don't see that for video poker...
Assume the worst, believe no one, and make your move only when you are certain that you are unbeatable or have, at worst, exceptionally good odds in your favor.
RS
RS
Joined: Feb 11, 2014
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May 4th, 2016 at 9:59:20 PM permalink
First of all, like has been said before -- probably best to ignore what PaiGowDan writes regarding casinos / AP / what's fair or "clean" / etc. He believes counting cards is akin to cheating and that APs are "schnorrers" (free loaders).


Casinos absolutely kick people out, usually just APs (I believe), but have been known to kick people out who get lucky that are just regular gamblers. If you're a high level AP, you're gonna have to worry about this more than say, a low limit grinder. Also depends on location. I think you're fairly safe (i.e.: from being arrested / back-roomed / etc.) in Las Vegas....and not quite as safe in somewhere like in the South or where gambling is relatively new (North East). I don't think (in my opinion) this is a big problem, but, your mileage may vary.
bobbartop
bobbartop
Joined: Mar 15, 2016
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May 4th, 2016 at 10:03:52 PM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf


The worst incident was for simply playing a $1 VP progressive. I was trying to happily leave as they asked. I was calm, didn't argue, I didn't say anything except" I'll cash out and leave, but I'm not going to the back room with you. They weren't happy with that, I was 10 feet from the door when they decided to ponce and drag me into the back room.



Am I reading this correctly? Is this about you, Axel, or are you quoting someone? This sounds horrible. I'm sure you must have written about this. I'm new here, can you post a link to where you have talked about this before? I'm dying to read THIS.
'Emergencies' have always been the pretext on which the safeguards of individual liberty have been eroded.
Paigowdan
Paigowdan
Joined: Apr 28, 2010
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May 4th, 2016 at 10:04:00 PM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

Disregard anything Dan is saying about this.


For that matter, I can state "disregard anything that AxelWolf says." Nothing said was inflammatory, anti-AP, or what have you. Just spoke of my casino work experience, though if you receive input from AP players, then expect that to be anti-casino or cautionary from their POV.

The simple fact of the matter is that 99% of players have no issues with casinos or back offs, nor should they expect problems and issues if they go to gamble on the up-and-up. If you aren't on the up-and-up, or employ practices that they don't like, then yes, this may introduce issues. And this includes card counting, which is legal, but unacceptable to many casinos in terms of casino play, so I will say this can cause issues. This is also clearly NOT saying that casinos are saints, or that AP players are low good sacks of cheating crap, but they will say that that's what I'm saying when I saying not. What I am saying is that casinos are businesses, and if you play by the rules, - their rules on such things, - you should be fine.

Gambling isn't a right, is an agreement between two parties - player and gambling hall or casino - who agree to enter into gambling arrangement. If your play is fine with them, then you're fine with them, Not much to it, really.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
Joined: Oct 10, 2012
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May 4th, 2016 at 10:07:02 PM permalink
I don't know any serious AP who's been Advantage Playing for more than a few years who hasn't had problem with some or all of the things that have been mentioned.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
Paigowdan
Paigowdan
Joined: Apr 28, 2010
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May 4th, 2016 at 10:13:22 PM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

I don't know any serious AP who's been Advantage Playing for more than a few years who hasn't had problem with some or all of the things that have been mentioned.


+1.

Exactly.

Which is to say, if you go for straight up gambling instead of trying to AP them, and play fine by the casino, you'd be fine with them, and they with you.

Generally, if they have an issue with you, it's for a reason, and it isn't because they don't like the color of your shirt of the style of your shoes. Card count or AP, expect some issue. Gamble, just gamble, and expect no issue at all, and free drinks. Yeah, casinos kick people out. They also let people stay and play. And this has more to do with why you're in the casino.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.

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