Paigowdan
Paigowdan
Joined: Apr 28, 2010
  • Threads: 115
  • Posts: 5692
May 4th, 2016 at 10:23:59 PM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

Richard Brodie got 86ed from Harrah's properties because he hit too many royals on the 100's. That was a serious problem for him because he is also a professional poker player and his banning excluding him from the WSOP. I believe he also worked for Microsoft prior.

EXPLAIN THE UNCLEAN PLAYING PART?


I wasn't working slots or surveillance so I can't say. You'd have to ask the slot manager this. I wounder what he would say. I'm sure if he had a case, Bob Nersesian should have been called.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
Joined: Oct 10, 2012
  • Threads: 151
  • Posts: 19437
May 4th, 2016 at 10:27:08 PM permalink
Quote: Paigowdan

For that matter, I can state "disregard anything that AxelWolf says." Nothing said was inflammatory, anti-AP, or what have you. Just spoke of my casino work experience, though if you receive input from AP players, then expect that to be anti-casino or cautionary from their POV.

The simple fact of the matter is that 99% of players have no issues with casinos or back offs, nor should they expect problems and issues if they go to gamble on the up-and-up. If you aren't on the up-and-up, or employ practices that they don't like, then yes, this may introduce issues. And this includes card counting, which is legal, but unacceptable to many casinos in terms of casino play, so I will say this can cause issues. This is also clearly NOT saying that casinos are saints, or that AP players are low good sacks of cheating crap, but they will say that that's what I'm saying when I saying not. What I am saying is that casinos are businesses, and if you play by the rules, - their rules on such things, - you should be fine.

Gambling isn't a right, is an agreement between two parties - player and gambling hall or casino - who agree to enter into gambling arrangement. If your play is fine with them, then you're fine with them, Not much to it, really.

99% of ploppy's don't have a problem because they are big losers overall.

He's not looking for the ploppy way. It sounds as if he's interested in getting an advantage.

PLEASE explain why playing a progressive is anything but clean play or why they have a problem with it? The casino has already made their money on it. (IMO it's because they are greedy)

Explain why the casinos have on multiple occasions kicked out players before a promotion has even started?

What were they doing wrong? Technically they were even playing a -EV situation at the time.

Explain why multiple casinos have kicked out multiple AP's during a promotion. Something as simple as a drawing. For instance Car A day in May. No shenanigans just play earn tickets.

It's like a restaurant advertising stop by every day and get a free soda with the purchase of any meal $5 or over. So you go in and order a $5 meal and they 86 you because you didn't order the $10 meal.

FYI it's harder for me to think of a casino that hasn't messed with clean AP players and pulled some BS.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
bobbartop
bobbartop
Joined: Mar 15, 2016
  • Threads: 128
  • Posts: 2558
May 4th, 2016 at 10:43:38 PM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

Richard Brodie got 86ed from Harrah's properties because he hit too many royals on the 100's.




Not just $100 but Full Pay Deuces $100. (3-coin) Bunch of geniuses.
'Emergencies' have always been the pretext on which the safeguards of individual liberty have been eroded.
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
Joined: Oct 10, 2012
  • Threads: 151
  • Posts: 19437
May 4th, 2016 at 10:44:07 PM permalink
Quote: Paigowdan

I wasn't working slots or surveillance so I can't say. You'd have to ask the slot manager this. I wounder what he would say. I'm sure if he had a case, Bob Nersesian should have been called.



It's because he found a positive game and ran good. DUH!!

It's obvious he wasn't doing anything they eventually overturned the 86ing because of the bad publicly.

THERE'S MANY of exactly the same situations.

How many examples do you want? Did you work at Texas Station?

Pick a casino, any casino.

Why call Bob he wasn't backroomed or anything?
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
Joined: Oct 10, 2012
  • Threads: 151
  • Posts: 19437
May 4th, 2016 at 11:11:26 PM permalink
Quote: bobbartop

Am I reading this correctly? Is this about you, Axel, or are you quoting someone? This sounds horrible. I'm sure you must have written about this. I'm new here, can you post a link to where you have talked about this before? I'm dying to read THIS.

I have mentioned it before with limited details. I'm sure it sounds worst than it was. Considering I have had much worst happen to me in and outside pool halls.

What actually scared me was I actually got outside during the struggle and they/he got me pinned down near a door that went to the back room and he quietly and deviously said, "Oh you're really going to get it now!" Luckily Management and others were already in there.

It was in the 90's before all the big backroom paydays. Bob N took the case, I'm going to see if I can get a copy of the video and watch my young handsome self in action, perhaps during a team get together during football half time. It was settled for a very low amount considering , I would've gladly gave back for a lifted 86.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
Joined: Oct 10, 2012
  • Threads: 151
  • Posts: 19437
May 4th, 2016 at 11:28:42 PM permalink
Quote: bobbartop

Not just $100 but Full Pay Deuces $100. (3-coin) Bunch of geniuses.

Yep that's terrible the screwed him out of the 5 coin version(I guess that helps cut down taxables) but there's nothing wrong with putting in $100 FPDW. They could've crushed him. 100.7 is not certainly no lock, he got very lucky 2 Royal in 2 days I believe. I know people who have lost 20k on $1 FPDW.


What made them idiot's is not using it to their advantage. The should have said congratulates we have to change the pays on this. Because we were so generous we have a super nice suite for you, can you do us a small favor and let us feature you and your winnings on our next newsletter and prom mail?

Imagine all the poker players running to the casino looking to score.

Instead they got negative publicly.

Added though. Casino will never get rid of all the AP's there's always someone to take their place.

If the casinos actually embrace AP's. Excluding BJ AP's wouldn't hide, they wouldn't have to worry about getting 86ed. They would probably be willing to have their pictures taken and appear in advertisements, commercials or whatever. Turn them into gambling rock stars. AP's would probably take to social media, forums and help promote the casinos as places people can actually win at. Instead of everyone saying the house always wins. People might actually think and say something different.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
Paigowdan
Paigowdan
Joined: Apr 28, 2010
  • Threads: 115
  • Posts: 5692
May 4th, 2016 at 11:52:31 PM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

99% of ploppy's don't have a problem because they are big losers overall.


on ploppies:
Ploppies can't unilaterally be classified as big losers, though addictive gamblers can be.

I would go so far as to say 100% of roulette, baccarat, and crap players play 100% perfect strategy 100% of the time. 95% of Pai Gow Poker players play a decent game, and 31% of UTH players play well, and all seem to have fun. And some win, some lose. Casinos seem to have NO problems or issues with them: they never get backed off, never have a clear resentment or attitude problem towards casinos or their workers, are fine with dealers and floormen, and enjoy their fine comps that never get pulled away from them.

Quote: AW

He's not looking for the ploppy way. It sounds as if he's interested in getting an advantage.


Grossman sells some excellent strategy cards. And of course, the wizardofodds.com consistently provides a fine strategy for the games displayed. Countless resources are available to learn how to play the games well. But counting and all other AP actions are known disallowed casino actions that often result in trouble, so I can't recommend that. (Besides, you guys will do that, recruit and sell the POV).

But then, the question arises "At the casino, are you there to gamble, or to try some maneuver that you know that won't go over too well with them, while of course insisting it's clean play as they take steps to bar you." This is in spite of the clear and overwhelming evidence that it is not, especially from the casino's point of view when the flat bet you, 86 you, or back you off. Call me radical, but I find this scenario staggeringly undeniable. Many are salmons at this point., Casinos have the right to deny play, and may and will.... Which, when it happens, is often met with righteous and indignant resentment and outrage, as to why they won't "just let me play that way I want to." Obviously doesn't work like that, and for valid reason.

Quote: AW

PLEASE explain why playing a progressive is anything but clean play or why they have a problem with it? The casino has already made their money on it. (IMO it's because they are greedy).


I don't get/agree with casino issues concerning progressive patronage.

Quote: AW

Explain why the casinos have on multiple occasions kicked out players before a promotion has even started?


You'd have to ask them, every case is different in some way. In my years of casino work, I found the vast majority of expulsions were justified and was for the betterment of the place. I generally don't hold in high esteem those who manage to get themselves ejected from a gambling hall.

Quote: AW

Explain why multiple casinos have kicked out multiple AP's during a promotion. Something as simple as a drawing. For instance Car A day in May. No shenanigans just play earn tickets.


They obviously didn't want the promo AP'ed by AP-ers. The issue wasn't the promotion, it was the specter of AP shenanigans influencing the promo. I'm friends with a squeaky-clean high roller who stuff truckloads of promo tickets into a barrel with no issue, a Mr. Promo. If AP players are on the casino's persona non-grata list, out they may go.

Quote: AW

It's like a restaurant advertising stop by every day and get a free soda with the purchase of any meal $5 or over. So you go in and order a $5 meal and they 86 you because you didn't order the $10 meal.


I don't see Hardy's or McDonald's doing this, unless you're filing your own sippy cups. Apt analogy.

Quote: AW

FYI it's harder for me to think of a casino that hasn't messed with clean AP players and pulled some BS.


I don't think it matters what you or I think. I see that they truly and generally don't mess with acceptable customers, and there's no shortage of acceptable customers.

It's clear that I don't have either an optimistic view or an ethical respect for AP players. I state my reasons why I think it is just an alluring quagmire for its practitioners in the end. I know a lot of ex-APs who either got burnt out or just crashed and burned as APs who went on to other areas in gaming to great success. For many, I also thought game designers often lead lives of quiet exasperation in “the relentless denial of the fruitless, silly pursuit” while adamantly subscribing, endorsing and defending it. Ahh, Ruined for life. Personally, I just can’t tow the AP or game design recommendation/endorsement line for most. Failure is the actual experience of a majority of both AP players (wannabes) and game designer (wannabes) - and while the door is closing harder than ever at this point. [Yes, take the bar exam/GMAT/dealer school, what have you, instead….] Add to this a sense or an entitlement of the AP, that “the casinos are evil and are denying our constitutional rights in our Robin Hood-like struggle for some extra cash” in justifying the undermining of their businesses services to the general gambling public. I think neither is a fine recommendation for new members.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
fivespot
fivespot
Joined: Jul 12, 2010
  • Threads: 2
  • Posts: 124
May 5th, 2016 at 12:10:18 AM permalink
Quote: Paigowdan

Yeah, Clean enough to get backed off or 86-ed.


Circular logic. "Casinos won't bother you if you play clean." "Clean play is what a casino won't bother you over." Very useful advice, that.

The only difference between a card counter and a non-card-counter is that the card counter uses his head more and plays better. The same is true between a video poker player and a video poker AP. The original poster seems like an intelligent person who is willing to work a little on strategy and game selection. What you deem "some kind of maneuver" or "not playing clean" is going to be simple common sense for him, and it's a legitimate concern whether him going to a casino and gambling - but doing so more intelligently than 99% of patrons - is going to cause the casino to bother him.

To other posters: I take it this guy spews this kind of insulting and nonsensical bullshit every time the topic of advantage play comes up?
EvenBob
EvenBob
Joined: Jul 18, 2010
  • Threads: 432
  • Posts: 25064
May 5th, 2016 at 12:17:06 AM permalink
Quote:

I would go so far as to say 100% of roulette, baccarat, and crap players play 100% perfect strategy 100% of the time.



Dan made a joke, a funny one too. lol
"It's not enough to succeed, your friends must fail." Gore Vidal
RS
RS
Joined: Feb 11, 2014
  • Threads: 62
  • Posts: 8623
May 5th, 2016 at 12:58:56 AM permalink
fivespot -- Yeah pretty much, but it's usually much worse.

  • Jump to: