can anyone make a living from gambling baccarat? ??

Quote: HugoSlavia

It doesn't matter what you do, they're gonna yell at you regardless.

That's incorrect for multiple reasons.

Nobody in the thread is "yelling" to begin with. I made a polite request to RS and explained why I made it, because I know it's not obvious that using the r-word is generally not cool. This is especially true if you don't have close friends or family with known intellectual disabilities, which most people don't. I also added a link just in case anyone was interested.

You are also completely wrong about the response not mattering.

One possible response (that I have gotten before) could be "oh, I didn't realize that might be hurtful, I will try to choose a different word in the future." Or questions about why this is an issue for some.

However, rather than thinking maybe there's something to learn here, EvenBob responded that he personally is not offended (???), declared he was not going to read the link because he doesn't care what offends others, talked about a "nation of crybabies," and implied that everyone simply needs to toughen up. You jumped in to complain about "social justice bs" and "liberals."

Unable to navigate the minefield, indeed.

I have said my piece, so I am done with this thread now.

Quote: ontariodealer

what the hell are all these comments about....the thread is about making a living playing bacc.

Righ folks.... Time to draw a line on the offensiveness or otherwise of words and attitudes used and displayed in this thread. The thread has gone off topic far enough, though there's no one member who's solely to blame for that.

IMHO what needed to be said about 'language' has been said.

Please all try to stay on topic in this thread and take any side discussion to a new thread if needs be...( which I doubt is necessary now )
Thank you.

Axel, not sure if you saw my last post. You mentioned a couple of times before about a successful AP without education and who has wealthy parents. Who are you referring to?

Quote: WatchMeWin

Axel, not sure if you saw my last post. You mentioned a couple of times before about a successful AP without education and who has wealthy parents. Who are you referring to?

Sounds like Donald Trump to me

Quote: WatchMeWin

Quote: AxelWolf

Quote: Romes

How did you not post this one:

If WMW did an interview about his system mine would be more accurate.


for example:

" Good start, good start, ya it's a win"

"we can be completely original which excites me which puts me in the zone of winning." I'm Bi-Winning, I win here and I win there, now what"

"You are in it to win it"

"Talk about an education"

"its how you perceive it"

"It's retired, I'm done, I'm not very good at it"

"defeating the naysayers. You are either winning or losing, there nothing in between"

"You just make a choice to win, and you win and just you, you, you, you."

There's so much more but I'll stop there.

Ax,question... you mentioned a few times in previous Posts about not having an education and having wealthy parents. Were you talking about yourself or were you alluding to someone else?

If you are suggesting I somehow had it easy or a leg up due to wealthy parents or somthing, that's just not the case.

I Never said anything about having wealthy parents, it's just the opposite of that. My parents were divorced when I was young. I lived with my Mother (She is a little crazy, but people seem to love her) untill I was 14.

My Mother rarely had more than $50-$100 left after paying bills and buying food for the month. She knew a lot of people, she was very resourceful and took advantage of every opportunity and program available. She was good at wheeling and dealing. She had a tab at all the local shops. Food Marts, Pet stores, drug stores, even the mechanics. Oftentimes, she would be floating the tab for many Months. I think She still has a tab at some of the remaining places. We always had a roof over our heads, plenty of food, an old Car, cable TV. Nothng was ever bought new. Whatever I wanted extra I had to work for by mowing lawns and other stuff.

My Dad was a mechanic 300 miles away. I moved there so I could hopefully learn the trade and work with him. As it turns out, he didn't have the patience to teach a 14-year-old kid to fix cars(he doesn't like anyone getting in his way and hated double checking the work) I didn't have a passion for it anyway. So, I started working an official job at Denny's when I was 14 almost 15. Per the law, I was supposed to only be able to work limited hours, but there were ways around that. I also still helped my Dad at the shop doing various things, like unloading crates of engines and loading them up for customers or whatever he needed to be done.


My Dad didn't have much money either, with 3 kids to take care of by himself, a shop to run with lots of overhead, meanwhile still paying back child support. It took him years to get out from under that, he even paid for me and I was not his biological son. (I have two Dads who are both great and totally opposite of each other). At some point, I was working for Kirby and doing well enough to get my own place at 17. During that time I racked up 11 FTA's due to mostly traffic violations that caught up to me. Then I found out I was getting financially hosed by my boss and owner of the division. I had Lots of pending sales(25 in 30 days) that he said failed the credit check, however, he re-wrote many of the contracts under his name and kept all the money for himself. So, I left For Vegas with about $300 a few months before my 19th birthday. I don't recall the exact timeline.

IIRC, my Dad helped me with $300 a little while after I got here.
I worked many different jobs(I was working 3 different jobs at one time) and worked my ass off for very little untill I got into AP.

And No, I didn't get a good education. Apparently, they don't help when it comes to understanding simple logic and gambling math concepts. Or perhaps some schools teach people how to just make sh*t up?

Quote: AxelWolf

They are discussing the word retarded.

As in... it's retarded to think you can beat Craps and Bacc straight up. It's a great word to use when people think they have a betting system.


#WINNING

I like this answer.

Axle, another graduate of the school of hard knocks. The kind of man who's word means something.

Quote: AxelWolf

Quote: WatchMeWin

Quote: AxelWolf

Quote: Romes

How did you not post this one:

If WMW did an interview about his system mine would be more accurate.


for example:

" Good start, good start, ya it's a win"

"we can be completely original which excites me which puts me in the zone of winning." I'm Bi-Winning, I win here and I win there, now what"

"You are in it to win it"

"Talk about an education"

"its how you perceive it"

"It's retired, I'm done, I'm not very good at it"

"defeating the naysayers. You are either winning or losing, there nothing in between"

"You just make a choice to win, and you win and just you, you, you, you."

There's so much more but I'll stop there.

Ax,question... you mentioned a few times in previous Posts about not having an education and having wealthy parents. Were you talking about yourself or were you alluding to someone else?

If you are suggesting I somehow had it easy or a leg up due to wealthy parents or somthing, that's just not the case.

I Never said anything about having wealthy parents, it's just the opposite of that. My parents were divorced when I was young. I lived with my Mother (She is a little crazy, but people seem to love her) untill I was 14.

My Mother rarely had more than $50-$100 left after paying bills and buying food for the month. She knew a lot of people, she was very resourceful and took advantage of every opportunity and program available. She was good at wheeling and dealing. She had a tab at all the local shops. Food Marts, Pet stores, drug stores, even the mechanics. Oftentimes, she would be floating the tab for many Months. I think She still has a tab at some of the remaining places. We always had a roof over our heads, plenty of food, an old Car, cable TV. Nothng was ever bought new. Whatever I wanted extra I had to work for by mowing lawns and other stuff.

My Dad was a mechanic 300 miles away. I moved there so I could hopefully learn the trade and work with him. As it turns out, he didn't have the patience to teach a 14-year-old kid to fix cars(he doesn't like anyone getting in his way and hated double checking the work) I didn't have a passion for it anyway. So, I started working an official job at Denny's when I was 14 almost 15. Per the law, I was supposed to only be able to work limited hours, but there were ways around that. I also still helped my Dad at the shop doing various things, like unloading crates of engines and loading them up for customers or whatever he needed to be done.


My Dad didn't have much money either, with 3 kids to take care of by himself, a shop to run with lots of overhead, meanwhile still paying back child support. It took him years to get out from under that, he even paid for me and I was not his biological son. (I have two Dads who are both great and totally opposite of each other). At some point, I was working for Kirby and doing well enough to get my own place at 17. During that time I racked up 11 FTA's due to mostly traffic violations that caught up to me. Then I found out I was getting financially hosed by my boss and owner of the division. I had Lots of pending sales(25 in 30 days) that he said failed the credit check, however, he re-wrote many of the contracts under his name and kept all the money for himself. So, I left For Vegas with about $300 a few months before my 19th birthday. I don't recall the exact timeline.

IIRC, my Dad helped me with $300 a little while after I got here.
I worked many different jobs(I was working 3 different jobs at one time) and worked my ass off for very little untill I got into AP.

And No, I didn't get a good education. Apparently, they don't help when it comes to understanding simple logic and gambling math concepts. Or perhaps some schools teach people how to just make sh*t up?

Thank you for your thoughtful note. I wasn't expecting a biography but nevertheless it gives a deeper understanding into your mindset.

I wasn't suggesting anything. I was merely asking who you were referring to when you were talking about a successful AP with no education and Wealthy parents. Perhaps I miss read it somewhere and I don't have the time or interest to go back and find the post but I'm pretty sure this is what you said on a couple of occasions.

Good luck with your endeavors.

Meanwhile, back at HQ, wmw just picked up a quick 1k hit n run. Life is good!

Quote: ontariodealer

Quote: AxelWolf

They are discussing the word retarded.

As in... it's retarded to think you can beat Craps and Bacc straight up. It's a great word to use when people think they have a betting system.

I like this answer.

If you both use "nonsense" instead, you communicate equally well what you intend to say, and you avoid problems that might otherwise arise.

As others have noted, this R-word -- whether used with an intention to hurt or not -- sometimes does.

I understand, ymmv...

Quote: LuckyPhow

If you both use "nonsense" instead, you communicate equally well what you intend to say, and you avoid problems that might otherwise arise.

As others have noted, this R-word -- whether used with an intention to hurt or not -- sometimes does.

I understand, ymmv...

those that use that word don't care if they hurt somebody's feelings who for example might have a mentally disabled child or brother or sister

your well meaning words are wasted on them

they care about themselves, and themselves alone. making themselves feel tough to throw around words like that.
same as the people who throw around the N word or the Ki word or the Sp word or the Wo word or the Ch word or the Go word

very tough guys. big muscles too. they've got me pretty scared.

I have to agree.

I play for a living, been doing this for years.

Yes, math tells you that we are at disadvantage of - blah2x % whatever. Who cares, we are not machines or
robots, there are windows were you can exploit it, (know when to get in the equation and when to get out), something more experienced players knows, I have read gr8player's posts and I know what he is talking about.


Baccarat seems like a simple game to play, well, sad to say it's NOT, the complexities are just overwhelming, there are just so many combinations of things and the game (in order) is mental,psychological and then last physical.

You need....

1. Bankroll
2. Be realistic and set your win goals relative to your
session capital.
3. Patience/Discipline (hardest while losing)
4. Mental preparation and you should also be physically
prepared as there are times you'll find yourself in a
hard grind, you'll need stamina lots of it to stay patient
and disciplined.

I can go on and on.. there are lot more in detail, that may or may not appeal to your liking, such as style of play, bet selection, money management all these things are to be refined by yourself alone.

Going back to the topic, answer is YES, But this is not to encourage everyone. Playing for a living is very hardwork, it drains you mentally,psychologically and physically, and of course monetarily if you don't know what you are doing.

This is a matter of controlling things that you can control as the math is already given.

Don't forget to stay hydrated.

Quote: bacchus

I have read gr8player's posts and I know what he is talking about.

Sadly, Gr8player is rumored to have committed suicide over his baccarat losses.

Quote: Tanko

Sadly, Gr8player is rumored to have committed suicide over his baccarat losses.

Is this an attempt at humor, or is this true?

gr8player is about 75 ++ years old, I hope all is well as not heard from him since.

I don't think a person of such depth and understanding of the game and the risk of losing that comes with it will do just that.

Quote: klimate10

Is this an attempt at humor, or is this true?

I understand that it's true, though I can't put my hands on the evidence right now, 'cos it came from another forum.

Quote: bacchus

gr8player is about 75 ++ years old, I hope all is well as not heard from him since.
I don't think a person of such depth and understanding of the game and the risk of losing that comes with it will do just that.

He said he was in his sixties when he retired a few years ago.

He did admit to losing 250k playing the game.

You can’t make a living playing it, but unless you're a skilled blackjack card counter, you have a better chance of winning playing baccarat, than any other game.

I was plus 65 units flat betting over the past six weeks, before giving back 20 in my last session.

I’ve done that a few times in the past. I could give it all back over the next two or three sessions.

Never was that far ahead playing craps or blackjack, but I don’t fool myself into thinking I can beat the game.

Quote: Dalex64

Don't forget to stay hydrated.

I'm glad somebody is paying attention to all the knowledge dropped on this forum

The most important thing you can do while playing a baccarat game is money management. If you don't have your bankroll strategy in place right from the start you are doomed. Some argue that you can make a huge profit by counting cards in baccarat but it is much more complicated than card counting at blackjack and even if you succeed it gives you a very small edge over the house.

Quote: Eyetinatim

Some argue that you can make a huge profit by counting cards in baccarat but it is much more complicated than card counting at blackjack and even if you succeed it gives you a very small edge over the house.

Who?

Quote: Eyetinatim

The most important thing you can do while playing a baccarat game is money management. If you don't have your bankroll strategy in place right from the start you are doomed.

I smell a betting system coming on.

I apologize for English, just translated in the translator on the Internet. Explain to me please why it is bad to use a martingeyl, for example on 6 steps, playing only 1 distribution for a game session what probability that will drop out 6 players in a row at once? It is necessary to play 63 (5% if on the banker) time to win back the bank, I understand that there will be a situation when after all will drop out and will lose, but whether loss of bank can cover such victories?

A martingale only works if you have unlimited money and the house has no maximum bet.

Nobody has unlimited money, and every casino in the world has maximum bets on their games.

This is why martingales only work in theory, and not in practice.

But using only 6 steps, it turns out 1,2,4,8,16,32 63 units turn out, the ceiling of casino depends on rates which you put, if they small, then there will be no maximum rates, I understand that playing many games many 6 players in a row in a row will drop out, the you play the more chances longer, but playing only 1 time for a session of chances less

By the time you get to your sixth step, though, you're risking almost 100 units to win back 1 unit. You'll be wiped out in no time doing that.

As than longer to look it at a lying cow, that high probability that she will get up))) And if it is serious, for example in one game of 70 distributions if you play all 70 distributions, such session where any your strategy will lose, any because any result of loss is possible, but whether playing 1.2 3 hands will get, you will be able to get on those situations even less often when your strategy lost? I just thought of it much and tried many strategy, but all loss, any fantastic combination of losses will get and you lost, I do not claim, I just would like to hear the reasonable answer about it

Quote: TigerWu

This is why martingales only work in theory, and not in practice.

It doesn't even "work" in theory, because if you have unlimited money and use any betting strategy, the result will always be that you have the same amount of money you started with

Why? There each victory plus one unit if you did not win on the banker

Quote: TomG

It doesn't even "work" in theory, because if you have unlimited money and use any betting strategy, the result will always be that you have the same amount of money you started with

I bet gambling isn’t that much fun for someone with unlimited money.

And I also wonder if someone with unlimited money ever even thinks about martingaling casino games.

Quote: michael99000

I bet gambling isn’t that much fun for someone with unlimited money.

And I also wonder if someone with unlimited money ever even thinks about martingaling casino games.

I always thought that would be one downfall of winning Powerball. When you have 800 million i cant imagine gambling being any fun.

If there is unlimited money, then why to complicate strategy for a victory if it is possible just to put and enjoy victories and not to be upset to defeats, all the same money is not limited

If there is unlimited money, then why to complicate strategy for a victory if it is possible just to put and enjoy victories and not to be upset to defeats, all the same money is not limited

Quote: Holodok

If there is unlimited money, then why to complicate strategy for a victory if it is possible just to put and enjoy victories and not to be upset to defeats, all the same money is not limited

Much wisdom.

Quote: Holodok

As than longer to look it at a lying cow, that high probability that she will get up)))

You can never trust a lying cow.

Reflections about a cow, unlimited money are clear to me. But somebody will be able to answer me a question?))

Quote: Holodok

But using only 6 steps, it turns out 1,2,4,8,16,32 63 units turn out, the ceiling of casino depends on rates which you put, if they small, then there will be no maximum rates, I understand that playing many games many 6 players in a row in a row will drop out, the you play the more chances longer, but playing only 1 time for a session of chances less

So you’re doing the martingale ONE time just trying to avoid 7 losses in a row and win ONE unit and then you’re done forever?

Then yes you will most likely succeed

Quote: Holodok

Reflections about a cow, unlimited money are clear to me. But somebody will be able to answer me a question?))

It won't work. If you fail, you lose 63 units. After that, you have to succeed 63 times to break even. If you fail while trying to succeed 63 times before failing again, your hole will be deeper. It will only work if you're lucky, but if you're lucky, you don't need it.

Blah blah blah.....you can't beat the math.

Quote: Lovecomps

Blah blah blah.....you can't beat the math.

Then he needs a bigger stick.

Quote: GWAE

I always thought that would be one downfall of winning Powerball. When you have 800 million i cant imagine gambling being any fun.

If I had $800 million I would still gamble because I do it for fun, and not to win money.

It is possible as that to calculate the probability of loss of 6 players in a row, playing 1 time, 2,3,4,5....?

Quote: Holodok

It is possible as that to calculate the probability of loss of 6 players in a row, playing 1 time, 2,3,4,5....?

Player bet wins 44.62% percent of the time and loses 45.85% of the time. Rest are pushed. I assume you want to ignore a push?

Is so, the formula is (45.85/(44.62+45.85))^6 = 1.694371%

Or just about 1 time out of 59.

So 58 of 59 times you win 1 unit and 1 out of 59 times you lose 63 units.

Quote: Holodok

It is possible as that to calculate the probability of loss of 6 players in a row, playing 1 time, 2,3,4,5....?

Holo,

If you cannot calculate, you could do this to test whether a player wins or loses a 6-step Baccarat Martingale bet like you describe:

• The Wizard of Odds has 10 random (VERY random) Baccarat data here. (At bottom of link...) Pick 1 of the 10 PDF files and download it.
• The PDF file you download has simulated data for 25,000 8-deck Baccarat shoes. Pick a number between 1 and 25,000. Go to that line in the data file.
• Pretend you are playing and receive the hands from this data file. Keep $$ you win (only $.95 if betting on Banker), and increase bet if you lose. If you lose 6 in a row, start over at $1 bet. See if you win or lose when you get to the end of the shoe (about 80 hands).
• See if you win enough money to cover loss at bet number 6. Sometimes you will win at the end of the shoe. Sometimes no win. If you lose, is it a big loss, or small loss? Write your results to help you remember.
• Then, pick another of the 25,000 shoes. Repeat, and repeat again, until you have your own data to help you answer your question.

Yes, others are correct that in theory a Martingale bet system has very little chance of winning in the long run (as you approach Infinity). But, no gambler plays that long.

However, Baccarat is known for its steaks, and you may find your bet system wins often enough for you to be happy when you play. I hope this helps.

Quote: michael99000

So you’re doing the martingale ONE time just trying to avoid 7 losses in a row and win ONE unit and then you’re done forever?

Then yes you will most likely succeed

yes, in exchange for the great likelihood that you will win one unit you expose yourself to the risk of losing 63 units

if your one unit is $100 you're exposed to possibly losing $6,300.........................................𝐨𝐮𝐜𝐡

if your one unit is $10 you're exposed to possibly losing $630...............................................𝐨𝐮𝐜𝐡

except I calculated for 6 losses in a row as Holodok stated

Does anyone have systems that are not as aggressive as martingale?

Quote: Holodok

Does anyone have systems that are not as aggressive as martingale?

Hi,
Stating first that such progressives are just a fun way of losing money...
I find the following amusing at roughly even money bets such as Blackjack...

Bet $5 if it loses, bet $10. If that loses, bet $15. Until you get a win, bet $15. If any bets win, start betting $5 again.

Not as bone crunshingly painful if you get a losing streak, but more amusing than flat betting.
Decrease or increase proportionately to match your own comfort level. E,g. 10, 20, 30, 30, 30 or maybe 25, 50, 75, 75, 75

Quote: Holodok

Does anyone have systems that are not as aggressive as martingale?

Bet however you want. Systems don't matter. All systems work if you're lucky. Whatever system you use, it will fail at some point. You can't be lucky forever.

Quote: Holodok

Does anyone have systems that are not as aggressive as martingale?

Bet the table minimum. Then walk away from the table for the day (or for the year to be even less aggressive) no matter what the result

here are my results after two and a half years of learning and playing baccarat . ( I'm a former recreational red/green chip blackjack player with a low 5 figure plus lifetime record ) I find this interesting and you might also and FWIW I hope it doesn't offend anyone
starting Baccarat bankroll $1000
min. bets avg $15 to $20
largest bet placed $125
Current bankroll $15,000 (includes all wins and losses)
Playing avg. 4 shoes per day
Avg. 6 days/mo. for 24 months of the total time
576 shoes x 80 hands / shoe is over 45,000 hands played
my bankroll has never been negative from the original $1000
all documented by date and location
so, I do know many people who play a lot more than I do and struggle and have negative bankroll over time with
wild swings of wins and losses from $10k , $100k, 300k and lose it all again.
It is my favorite game because it is such a challenge.
I want to thank Mike for his 250,000 baccarat shoes. I study them daily when I'm not playing for real and I find them to be very helpful in developing strategy.

Quote: cwwbjr

here are my results after two and a half years of learning and playing baccarat . ( I'm a former recreational red/green chip blackjack player with a low 5 figure plus lifetime record ) I find this interesting and you might also and FWIW I hope it doesn't offend anyone
starting Baccarat bankroll $1000
min. bets avg $15 to $20
largest bet placed $125
Current bankroll $15,000 (includes all wins and losses)

all documented by date and location

I want to thank Mike for his 250,000 baccarat shoes. I study them daily when I'm not playing for real and I find them to be very helpful in developing strategy.

there are dozens of people who 𝐬𝐚𝐲 they are big winners at baccarat but nobody has ever proved they have a money management or bet selection system to beat the game
isn't that a funny thing

you could go to gamblingforums.com and share the story of your big wins with all the other big winners over there - they're going to eat it up

your documentation is worthless - any documentation claiming a winning system has to be verified by neutral observers

your thanking Mike for all you have learned from studying his 250,000 shoes is quite funny
I'm sure Mike would tell you that studying the shoes to work out a winning system is a waste of time