Spanish word of the day

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October 11th, 2011 at 8:24:08 PM permalink

Fecha: 12 de Octobre, 2011
Palabra: Orgulloso

Today's word simply means proud. I don't know of any similar words in English or Spanish, so I think Paco will have his work cut out for him.

Ejemplo time.

Yo estaba orgulloso que ser invitado a la fiesta. = I was proud to be invited to the party.

My biggest doubt is the que. Maybe por, de, or nothing at all. Spanish prepositions are tough. Also, maybe fue instead of estaba, but I am never on thick ice when it comes to ser and estar.

"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)

Nareed

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October 11th, 2011 at 9:04:35 PM permalink

Quote: Wizard
My biggest doubt is the que. Maybe por, de, or nothing at all. Spanish prepositions are tough. Also, maybe fue instead of estaba, but I am never on thick ice when it comes to ser and estar.

Then you're going to be surprised:

Quote:
Yo estaba orgulloso que ser invitado a la fiesta. = I was proud to be invited to the party.

"Estoy orgulloso de haber sido invitado a la fiesta"

You'll notice i used the present tense. That's because using the past tense in that sentence changes the meaning of what you're saying. If you said "Estaba orgulloso de haber sido invitado a la fiesta," past tense, you're implying you were proud of the invitation but no longer are. In English, of course, the sue of the past tense means only that the moment of pride occurred in the past, but whether you're still proud of the invitation or not is unknown.

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pacomartin

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October 12th, 2011 at 12:34:33 AM permalink

Quote: Wizard
Fecha: 12 de Octobre, 2011
Palabra: Orgulloso

Today's word simply means proud. I don't know of any similar words in English or Spanish, so I think Paco will have his work cut out for him.

Ejemplo time.

Yo estaba orgulloso que ser invitado a la fiesta. = I was proud to be invited to the party.

My biggest doubt is the que. Maybe por, de, or nothing at all. Spanish prepositions are tough. Also, maybe fue instead of estaba, but I am never on thick ice when it comes to ser and estar.

Orgullo was the word of the day in June 2011.

You discussed pride when you interpreted Gilligan's Island as personification of the 7 Deadly Sins. At the time I said that soberbia which is a cognate with English superior has slightly more negative meaning. All Western culture struggles with the idea of "pride" both as a virtue and as a "sin" depending on context. The word "soberbia" has that sense of "superiority" which is ambigious. The word "orgulloso" is a Catalan word originally, and has no cognate in Latin or English. From what I have seen, it is more likely to be interpreted as the "good sense of pride" (even though the dictionary gives "haughtiness" as a possible translation).

pride superiority	greed avarice	lust	envy	gluttony	wrath ire	sloth laziness	English	Seven deadly sins
S	A	L	I	G	I	A	Acronym
superbia	avaritia	luxuria	invidia	gula	ira	acedia	Latin	septem peccata mortalia
superbia	avarizia	lussuria	invidia	gola	ira	accidia	Italian	sette vizi capitali
soberbia	avaricia	lujuria	envidia	gula	ira	pereza	Spanish	Los siete pecados mortales
l'orgueil	l'avarice	la luxure	l'envie	la gourmandise	la colère	la paresse	French	les sept péchés capitaux

In English the sentence "I was proud to be invited to the party" actually uses two different conjugations of the verb be : (1) was (first person past), (2) "to be" the infinitive form. In English the continuity of your sense of pride is in doubt. It is possible that the rest of the sentence is: "I was proud to be invited to the party, until I realized every Tom, Dick, and Harry was invited."

If you change the English to "I am proud to have been invited to the party", then you remove all doubt. You are still proud, and "have been" conveys that the extension of the invitation is a completed action.

The ambiguity is, however, tolerable in English. In Spanish the ambiguity is intolerable. You must use the latter form of the sentence. Note that sido is the past participle of ser (i.e. been) while estoy is the first person present of estar so the translation ended up using both "ser" and "estar".

Wizard
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October 12th, 2011 at 10:50:53 PM permalink

Very nicely done chart Paco, thank you. It must have taken a while to put together.

Also, that is very interesting about the past tense in Spanish. I enjoy the subtleties like this. In English you assume the present has not changed, unless otherwise noted. In Spanish, the opposite. Que interestante.

However, new day, time to move on.

Fecha: 13 de Octobre, 2011
Palabra: Equivocarse

Contrary to what you might think, equivocarse does not mean equivocate, but it is similar.

Equivocarse = To be wrong.

Equivocate = To be deliberately confusing or misleading, often using words the listener may not understand or misunderstand. Perhaps legally truthful, but meant to be interpreted wrong.

Ejemplo time.

Equivocas acusame de engañar en el examen. = You're wrong to accuse me of cheating on the exam.

"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)

pacomartin

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October 13th, 2011 at 6:09:00 AM permalink

Quote: Wizard
Fecha: 13 de Octobre, 2011 Palabra: Equivocarse

In the DRAE definition it gives both a transitive and a pronomial (reflexive) definition. But after the transitive verb definition, the abbreviation U. m. c. prnl. follow. The abbreviation says it is "Used mostly with the pronomial" (hence the -se prefix).

Equivocar.(De equívoco).
1. transitive: Tener o tomar algo por otra cosa, juzgando u obrando desacertadamente. U. m. c. prnl.
2. pronomial: Dicho de dos o más cosas: Semejarse mucho y parecer una misma.
Ejemplo RAE: Ese muro se equivoca CON la fachada.

Looking closer at the 2nd definition:
The RAE frequently starts out with the clause "Dicho de" to set context. "Dicho" is an irregular past participle (-ing form) of decir, so it translate to "speaking of". So the first clause is "speaking of two or more things:"

semejar and semajarse are both translated in English "to resemble" (since it is basically a reflexive verb in English)
paracer means to "appear like"

So the pigeon English translation of the RAE definition would be "to resemble much" and "appear" the same. Although we would probably say "Speaking of two or more things: they appear to someone as more or less the same".

The first definition is more of the definition of "to err" or "to be wrong". The second definition is more or less "to equivocate" in English.

Wizard, I think you are using wrong in the incorrect context. You are using it in the moral judgement sense, where I think the meaning is more about making the incorrect choice.

EDIT:

Since Nareed hasn't answered I posted this question on another forum. One person suggested that the word could be about something morally wrong also. They suggested:

Tuve una relación extramatrimonial. Me equivoqué.
I had an affair. I made a mistake.

But that still is making the "incorrect" choice. In English the word as a verb means to act unjustly or dishonestly toward (someone): i.e. "the people I have wronged". It doesn't seem to mean the same thing in Spansih.

As for your example:
One writer suggested the following variations to clarify that you mean the accuser made the "wrong" choice.
Estás equivocado por acusarme de hacer chuleta. You're flat out wrong...I didn't cheat.
Te equivocaste de la persona que hiciera chuleta. You've got the wrong person.
Te equivocaste con lo de hacer chuleta. You're mistaken about this cheating business.

If you specifically meant that the accusation was "unjust" then the verb "injusto" is more appropriate.
Es injusto que me acuses de hacer chuleta. It's unjust to accuse me.

An educated native speaker felt that the other definition in the DRAE (similar to "equivocate") is extremely obscure. It would be more common to use "ofuscar".

pacomartin

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October 13th, 2011 at 1:28:34 PM permalink

QUIZ

This quiz highlights one of the problems with verb usage between Spanish and English. The following 11 verbs are used in a sentence, and the translation is correct. Can you tell what these verbs have in common?

It is subtle, but if you can figure it out, you will have a guide against a common mistake. Most of the verbs are frequently used.

#	Infinitive	Ejemplo	English Translation
1	agradecer	Le agradecí su pacienia.	I thanked him for his patience.
2	aprovechar	¿No quiere Ud. aprovechar la oportunidad?	Don't you want to take advantage of this opportunity?
3	buscar	Busco mi libro.	I am looking for my book.
4	escuchar	Escucho la música.	I am listening to the music.
5	esperar	Espero el autobús.	I am waiting for the bus.
6	guardar cama	La semana pasada guardé cama.	Last week. I stayed in bed.
7	lograr	El alumno logró hacerlo.	The pupil succeeded in doing it.
8	mirar	Miro el cielo.	I am looking at the sky.
9	pagar	Pagué los billetes.	I paid for the tickets.
10	pedir	Pido un libro.	I am asking for a book.
11	soler+inf.	Suelo acompañar a mis amigo en el autobús.	I am in the habit of acconpanying my friends on the bus.

Nareed

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October 13th, 2011 at 2:04:56 PM permalink

Quote: Wizard
Equivocas acusame de engañar en el examen. = You're wrong to accuse me of cheating on the exam.

"TE equivocas AL acusarme de HABER HECHO trampa en el examen"

Your sentence means "You're wrong to accuse me of deceiving on the test" :)

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Wizard
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October 13th, 2011 at 5:01:56 PM permalink

Thanks for all the comments. I meant to say in English that that the accuser was morally wrong to make the accusation of cheating. I feel strongly that if you're going to make a strong accusation it should be backed up with strong evidence. So it was a wrong choice, but the emphasis should be on it being morally wrong.

Here is the sentence I read in my book yesterday that gave me the idea to pick the word of the day, (Name of sister) tenía razón y ella estaba equivocada.

Regarding Paco's question, this is probably wrong, but in English we use a preposition after said words, and it is omitted in Spanish. However, I doubt that answer, because Spanish often implies a preposition where one is directly stated in English. I doubt it is limited to those words.

Nareed, I would have never got your translation of that sentence. After looking it up I see that "hacer trampas" is an idiom for cheat. I think I deserve only a mild castigo for that one, for how would anyone but a fluent speaker know that? Speaking of which, my house cleaner uses the word castigado for punishment, is that right?

"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)

Nareed

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October 13th, 2011 at 7:08:38 PM permalink

Quote: Wizard
Thanks for all the comments. I meant to say in English that that the accuser was morally wrong to make the accusation of cheating.

"Equivocado" means wrong as in mistaken. I don't think there's a word for morally wrong, but there isn't one in English, either.

Quote:
Nareed, I would have never got your translation of that sentence. After looking it up I see that "hacer trampas" is an idiom for cheat. I think I deserve only a mild castigo for that one, for how would anyone but a fluent speaker know that?

I'm fairly sure we've covered it before. Of course, this isn't a formal course and I don't keep track. For all I know you don't keep notes.

Now, about that exam.... :P

Quote:
Speaking of which, my house cleaner uses the word castigado for punishment, is that right?

Castigado means punished. Castigo is punishment.

But in an NFL game, the Spanish commentators translate "penalty" as "castigo." That's odd, since there is a word for penalty: Penalización. Worse yet, in sucker they refer to a penalty kick as a penalti <shrug>

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pacomartin

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October 14th, 2011 at 3:29:24 AM permalink

Quote: Nareed
"Equivocado" means wrong as in mistaken. I don't think there's a word for morally wrong, but there isn't one in English, either.

Well I think that wrong does handle both meanings. As an adjective; "I took a wrong turn" or "That is the wrong way to peel a banana" the word has no moral implications, but when we use it as a verb "I wronged you" or "Two wrongs don't make a right" or in idioms like "go wrong" or "do wrong" then the word has strong moral implications.

Injustice or "injusto" is pretty clear, but the word is not a verb. We must say "It's an injustice" or "Es injusto".

Quote: Wizard
Nareed, I would have never got your translation of that sentence. After looking it up I see that "hacer trampas" is an idiom for cheat. I think I deserve only a mild castigo for that one, for how would anyone but a fluent speaker know that?

I noticed that I got an idiom from the other native Spanish speaker when I asked him the same question on a forum. He used "de hacer chuleta".

But we discussed the word cheat in an earlier post. The verb in English is also idiomatic and would not be recognized by a speaker of a Romance language.

The word "escheat" was a Norman legal term for revision of property to the state when the owner dies without heirs. So much property got stolen in these transactions (especially after the Black Death killed most of the population) that the word in English evolved into "cheat" and assumed it's present meaning.

Nareed

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October 14th, 2011 at 6:34:49 AM permalink

Quote: pacomartin
But we discussed the word cheat in an earlier post. The verb in English is also idiomatic and would not be recognized by a speaker of a Romance language.

Poppycock (and if that's not idiomatic, it should be). I understood the various forms of cheat and to cheat at once.

The word that puzzled me for a long time was "swear."

At a summer camp in Canada we had a puny radio station (it was fun). When the rules were laid out, about the most important one was "Absolutely no swearing." I couldn't understand that. What would be the harm in affirming an oath, or making a solemn promise, on the air? At least when I asked, the counselor got a good laugh :)

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pacomartin

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October 14th, 2011 at 6:58:04 AM permalink

Quote: Nareed
Poppycock (and if that's not idiomatic, it should be). I understood the various forms of cheat and to cheat at once.

I meant a native speaker of a Romance language who does not know Englishy would automatically recognize cognates.

accelerate acelerar
accentuate acentuar
aggregate agregar
associate asociar
demonstrate demostrar
estimate estimar
exaggerate exagerar
negotiate negociar
operate operar
participate participar
terminate terminar

Cheat is an idiomatic meaning of a Latin word, unique to English. It comes from the Latin word *excadere which leads to caer(se) in Spanish. The context of "cheating" is not inherent to the word.

poppycock is probably from Dutch dialect "pappekak" which literally means "soft dung".

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October 14th, 2011 at 9:43:39 AM permalink

Sorry to interrupt the current conversation but it is a día nuevo.

Fecha: 14 de Octobre, 2011
Palabra: Hermosa

It was not long ago that I thought bella, bonita y hermosa meant the same thing, beautiful/pretty. A few months ago I was using my hombre de piscinas as a victim to suffer my Español horrible. I was trying to describe a pretty girl and used the word hermosa. So he corrected me and said to be very careful in calling a woman that word, because it also means gorda (fat).

That was the first I ever heard of this usage of hermosa. So the next time I bounced this off my Spanish tutor and she said "poppycock." Well, not exactly that word, but I thought Nareed would appreciate the reference. She said it simply means beautiful and fat has nothing to do with it.

So yesterday I ran into my pool guy again and told her what my tutor said, and he flat out said she was wrong. Being the terrible student that I am I asked if he would explain it to her over the phone. He agreed, so I tried calling her, and she happened to pick up. What followed was a 15-20 minute argument about the meaning of the word. It was in Spanish but I could make out most of it. My pool guy kept telling her to look it up in the diccionario. I could tell that my tutor was using an elevated tone of voice, and was probably insulted that a pool cleaner from Nicaragua was challenging an educated Spanish teacher from Argentina.

However, it looks to me like my pool cleaner was right. Here is what it says for hermoso/a at WordReference.com (Diccionario de la lengua española) says:

hermoso, sa
1. adj. Que resulta proporcionado y bello a los sentidos:
rostro hermoso;
hermosa tarde.
2. Noble o bello moralmente:
es muy hermoso que la hayas cuidado.
3. col. Grande, amplio:
la cama es bastante hermosa para los dos.
4. col. Robusto, saludable:
la niña está ya muy hermosa.

Note definition #3. What do you guys think? Who was right?

By the way, I sent an apology to my tutor for putting her on the spot like that, and obviously getting her upset, but she has not responded to it. I wonder if she is mad. She always gets a little insulted when I quote anybody who challenges anything she says, but that is just the kind of troublemaker I can be.

"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)

Alan

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October 14th, 2011 at 10:01:20 AM permalink

Challenging your tutor doesn't seem healthy for your relationship with her. You don't have a third or fourth party to ask before you ask her? Of course you always have the forum.

My expert is off today, but she's usually curious as to what the word of the day is. I'll ask her on Monday.

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October 14th, 2011 at 10:21:47 AM permalink

Quote: Alan
Challenging your tutor doesn't seem healthy for your relationship with her. You don't have a third or fourth party to ask before you ask her? Of course you always have the forum.

I don't disagree. Personally I revel in a good debate but that doesn't mean she feels the same way.

"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)

Nareed

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October 14th, 2011 at 10:52:12 AM permalink

Quote: Wizard
A few months ago I was using my hombre de piscinas as a victim to suffer my Español horrible.

There really is no Spanish term for pool guy. If you must use one, it would be "el tipo de la alberca" or "el muchacho de la alberca" or even "el señor de la alberca." The word "hombre" isn't used that way. it's not wrong, it just isn't used that way.

Quote:
I was trying to describe a pretty girl and used the word hermosa. So he corrected me and said to be very careful in calling a woman that word, because it also means gorda (fat).

Long reply short: aside from words with many multiple meanings, anything past the second definition in the dictionary ought to be ignored, unless it's used often taht way. In other words your tutor is right and the pool guy is wrong, even if the dictionary backs him up.

Quote:
3. col. Grande, amplio:
la cama es bastante hermosa para los dos.
4. col. Robusto, saludable:
la niña está ya muy hermosa.

Never heard such meanings used, nor did I know they existed.

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October 14th, 2011 at 11:12:31 AM permalink

Quote: Nareed
In other words your tutor is right and the pool guy is wrong, even if the dictionary backs him up.

Thanks. So the score is now:

Maestra: 1
El muchacho de la piscina: 0

By the way, "El muchacho de la alberca" is quite a mouthful. Why wouldn't someone say limpiador de piscinas?

Speaking of the word alberca, my tutor cringes every time I use it. She will always correct me saying the proper word in Spanish is piscina, but would admit that they do say alberca in Mexico, and the south-west U.S. I think we may have gone through that one before.

"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)

Nareed

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October 14th, 2011 at 12:35:12 PM permalink

Quote: Wizard
By the way, "El muchacho de la alberca" is quite a mouthful. Why wouldn't someone say limpiador de piscinas?

You could. But it's "el limpiador de albercas." In popular usage in Mexico, too, you'd say "el que limpia la alberca," I don't know why.

Quote:
Speaking of the word alberca, my tutor cringes every time I use it. She will always correct me saying the proper word in Spanish is piscina, but would admit that they do say alberca in Mexico, and the south-west U.S. I think we may have gone through that one before.

We have. Short answer is people use the word they're acustomed to. Shorter asnwer: we're right, they're wrong. Piscina sounds like something for sale at a fishmonger's, too, not a nice place to swim in clean water.

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pacomartin

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October 14th, 2011 at 12:37:43 PM permalink

Quote: Wizard

hermoso, sa
3. col. Grande, amplio: la cama es bastante hermosa para los dos.
4. col. Robusto, saludable: la niña está ya muy hermosa.

Note definition #3. What do you guys think? Who was right?

By the way, I sent an apology to my tutor for putting her on the spot like that, and obviously getting her upset, but she has not responded to it. I wonder if she is mad. She always gets a little insulted when I quote anybody who challenges anything she says, but that is just the kind of troublemaker I can be.

Definition #4 is in the RAE, but it only applies to children. I am told that beautiful child in Latino culture (even a girl) is robust and sturdy with thick legs. They get skinnier when they are older.

I can't find definition #3 in the DRAE or in any urban dictionary or slang book. It might be a uniquely Nicaraguan meaning.

Most Argentines are very proud of the Spanish they speak, and consider it higher quality than many of the other dialects. Face it, you have a personality that digs at things. I also had an Argentine teacher for a while in San Diego. She also spent a great deal of time criticizing the Spanish she heard in the city.

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October 14th, 2011 at 12:52:02 PM permalink

Quote: pacomartin
Most Argentines are very proud of the Spanish they speak, and consider it higher quality than many of the other dialects.

They're entitled to their delucions.

They're also not what you'd call well-liked in other Latin american countries. Here's the least offensive Argentine joke I know:

Q: Why do Argentinians look up and smile during thunderstorms?
A: They think God is taking their picture.

I think I've posted some of these before.

I had a number of Argentinian teachers in junior high school. The Jewish community in Argentina is the largest in this hemisphere next to America's, and the largest in any Spanish speaking country, or so I've been told. Anwyay, their accent is far removed from most Mexican accents, and their language usage is both odd and obscure.

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October 14th, 2011 at 1:49:59 PM permalink

Quote: Nareed
Anwyay, their accent is far removed from most Mexican accents, and their language usage is both odd and obscure.

According to her, the rest of the Spanish-speaking world loves Argentine accents. In the same way my life likes it when Switch leaves a message (in his English accent) on my home answering machine.

"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)

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October 14th, 2011 at 2:07:14 PM permalink

Quote: Wizard
According to her, the rest of the Spanish-speaking world loves Argentine accents.

Didn't I just say they're entiteld to their delusions?

In fact, I said their accent is too far removed from Meican accents. I did not say whether I find it pleasing, or more grating on the nerves than a dentist's drill accompanied by nails scraping on a chalkboard. (I'll let you guess this exciting mystery).

I assume that like all large countries, accetns vary in Argentina. But all Argentines I've met had very simialr accents.

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October 14th, 2011 at 10:22:31 PM permalink

I'm sure my tutor will be happy to know both you guys ruled in her favor.

For the next 32 entries I would like to look at the 31 states of Mexico, plus the Districto Federal. Let's go in alphabetical order.

Fecha: 15 de Octobre, 2011
Estado: Aguascalientes
Palabra: Terma

It would be too easy to say that Aguascalientes means hot waters. Why it is one word, I'd like to know. If I wish to say "How do I turn on the hot water?" Would I use one word or two for the "hot water" part?

What might you find in a place called Aguacalientes? Hot springs of course. While English does not have a single word for hot springs, Spanish does, terma.

A question for the members from Mexico (i.e. Nareed), do people get naked and smoke mota in natural hot springs in Mexico, as us Gringos tend to do?

Ejempo time

Este terma esta linda, pero tiene demasiado muchos gentes. = This hot spring is nice, but is too crowded.

"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)

pacomartin

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October 15th, 2011 at 1:29:25 AM permalink

Quote: Nareed
I assume that like all large countries, accents vary in Argentina. But all Argentines I've met had very similar accents.

Of course there are regional variants, but most citizens, and certainly most of them that travel are going to be from near Buenos Aires.

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October 15th, 2011 at 1:55:03 AM permalink

Quote: Wizard
Fecha: 15 de Octobre, 2011 Estado: Aguascalientes

The original name of the city was Villa de Nuestra Señora de la Asunción de las Aguas Calientes with two words. It is a reasonably affluent small state of about a million people. The state has reasonable air connections to Dallas, Houston, and LA (plus DF and Tijuana in Mexico). I've stopped there briefly on my way to Zacatecas, but it is not known as tourist destination.

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October 15th, 2011 at 4:57:33 AM permalink

Quote: Wizard
I'm sure my tutor will be happy to know both you guys ruled in her favor.

Sort of :)

Quote:
It would be too easy to say that Aguascalientes means hot waters.

That's just what it means.

Quote:
Why it is one word, I'd like to know.

My Spanish teacher used to stress that for names there are no rules.

Quote:
If I wish to say "How do I turn on the hot water?" Would I use one word or two for the "hot water" part?

"¿Como prendo el agua caliente?" But that's unusual. In Spanish you don't really "turn on" the water, you "open the hot water faucet." So you'd point to the shower and ask "¿Cual es la caliente?" Meaning which of the two wheels turns on the hot water. If they can't see you pointing, you ask "¿Cual es la llave del agua caliente?"

Quote:
What might you find in a place called Aguacalientes? Hot springs of course. While English does not have a single word for hot springs, Spanish does, terma.

If you say so. the dictionary has it as a distantly related term to "baños." Remind me next Monday to ask around the office.

Quote:
A question for the members from Mexico (i.e. Nareed), do people get naked and smoke mota in natural hot springs in Mexico, as us Gringos tend to do?

Sorry, I've never been near a hot spring.

Quote:
Este terma esta linda, pero tiene demasiado muchos gentes. = This hot spring is nice, but is too crowded.

EstA terma ES linda, pero HAY demasiada gente."

There's a subtle distinction here. Saying "hay demasiada gente" means "there are too many people." Saying "Hay mucha gente" means "It's too crowded." The way you said it, more or less means "There are too many much people."

Another subtle distinction is "gente" = "people" while "gentes" = "peoples"

"Nice" is a problematic word to use in Spanish. It translates as "agradable," but that word is seldom used. A Mexican wanting to say a "terma" is nice, would say "esta terma está bien." "Linda" means cute, though it can also be used to say pretty when applied to a person, or beautiful when applied to a place. So in that sense your example was right.

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pacomartin

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October 15th, 2011 at 7:01:24 AM permalink

Quote: Wizard
A question for the members from Mexico (i.e. Nareed), do people get naked and smoke mota in natural hot springs in Mexico, as us Gringos tend to do?

The impression I always got was the public displays of nudity are very rare among Mexicans. Although you can find about a dozen resorts ranging from upscale to hippie, the majority of people there are foreign. Some of the beaches on the Pacific coast cater to a lot of Europeans, many of whom are used to nude swimming.

I am not sure about smoking mota. It is certainly not alien, but once again it seemed more common in California or in Colorado. That is entirely subjective on my part, and I don't know if there are reliable statistics. Certainly the Mexican government says there would be no drug cartels if they had to depend on the Mexican market.

I have read articles by the woman who runs this website: Mexico's Drug War: An ongoing analysis of southwest border violence issues by an experienced intelligence professional. which claims drug use is increasingly rapidly in Mexico, but is still insignificant compared to the American market.

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October 15th, 2011 at 7:42:49 AM permalink

Quote: pacomartin
Certainly the Mexican government says there would be no drug cartels if they had to depend on the Mexican market.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought that former president Fox favored legalizing drugs, or at least decriminalizing them. Why did the public not enthusiastically support that idea? Seems to me that would eliminate most of the crime problem overnight. By taxing and regulating narcotics the tax revenues could have been enormous, not to mention the savings from the reduced crime. It seems to be the pros would easily outweigh any cons.

What am I missing?

"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)

pacomartin

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October 15th, 2011 at 7:44:23 AM permalink

Quote: Wizard
Regarding Paco's question, this is probably wrong, but in English we use a preposition after said words, and it is omitted in Spanish. However, I doubt that answer, because Spanish often implies a preposition where one is directly stated in English. I doubt it is limited to those words.

Spanish verbs that have inherent prepositions are not limited to those 11 examples, but I believe the complete list is still rather short. I think the following three dozen verbs is fairly comprehensive. I thought it would be a good cheat sheet for you to have in trying to create translations.

Prepositions are always a problem, because in other cases you tend to use the incorrect one. I know por and para are very problematic for me because they often translate to the same word, "for", in English.

#	Infinitive	English Translation
1	agradecer	to thank for
2	apagar	to turn off
3	aprovechar	to take advantage of
4	arrancar	to turn on
5	atravesar	to go across
6	averiguar	to find out
7	bajar	to go down
8	botar	to throw out
9	buscar	to look for
10	caerse	to fall down
11	colgar (ue)	to hang up
12	conocer	to be acquainted with
13	cortar	to cut off; to cut
14	criar	to bring up; to raise
15	destacar	to stand out
16	encender (ie)	to turn on
17	entregar	to hand over
18	envolver (ue)	to wrap up
19	escuchar	to listen to
20	guardar cama	to stay in bed
21	huir	to flee from
22	ignorar	to be unaware of
23	indicar	to point out
24	llevar	to take away
25	lograr	to succeed in
26	mirar	to look at
27	pagar	to pay for
28	pedir	to ask for
29	platicar	to talk over; to chat
30	poner	to turn on; to put; to place
31	quitarse	to take off
32	recogar (ue)	to pick up
33	saber	to know how to ; to know
34	soler+inf.	to be in the habit of + INFINITIVE
35	subir	to go up
36	yacer	to lie down

Nareed

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October 15th, 2011 at 7:56:49 AM permalink

Quote: Wizard
Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought that former president Fox favored legalizing drugs, or at least decriminalizing them. Why did the public not enthusiastically support that idea? Seems to me that would eliminate most of the crime problem overnight. By taxing and regulating narcotics the tax revenues could have been enormous, not to mention the savings from the reduced crime. It seems to be the pros would easily outweigh any cons.

What am I missing?

You're missing the effects of government meddling where it shouldn't meddle.

I favor legalizing drugs. However, it's not that simple. Let's not consider what effect legalization would have on drug consumption, that's a relatively minor concern. Instead let's focus on what it would do to the drug cartels and drug dealers.

For starters drug prices would drop precipitously. Drugs that make millions now would do hundreds of thousands. You'd be left with thousands of violent, armed men with too little money to divide among them, assuming they stayed int eh drug business. Instead they'd branch out into other illegal activities. That's not so bad, as they've already begun to do that (extortion, kidnapping, murder for hire, protection, etc). But the "market" for new crime can't take such an influx right away. So there would be still more violence.

Long story short, in America Prohibition made the mafia rich and more violent. Repealing prohibition drove some of the violence out, but it didn't end the mafia.

Now, my position is that people ought to be free to do as they want as long as they respect the rights of other people. This includes self-destructive actions like doing drugs. Junkies are pathetic, contemptible and pitiful, but they don't usually hurt anyone other than themselves. That's bad, that's very bad, but adding organized crime to the mix doesn't do any good, either.

So for the noble purpose of trying to wipe out drug addiction governments prohibited drugs. As a result we still have addicts and junkies, plus organized crime, drug cartels and violence galore. Thanks a lot.

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October 15th, 2011 at 8:07:53 AM permalink

I'm not saying there would be no negative consequences. Yes, some of the former members of the cartels would turn to other crime, but others would turn to legitimate work or retire. There is an economics of crime, the better it pays, the more people will do it. Lower the benefits of crime and you'll see less of it.

And why shouldn't the government meddle in the business of narcotics? Don't they meddle in cigarettes and alcohol?

"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)

pacomartin

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October 15th, 2011 at 8:27:42 AM permalink

Quote: Wizard
Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought that former president Fox favored legalizing drugs, or at least decriminalizing them. Why did the public not enthusiastically support that idea? Seems to me that would eliminate most of the crime problem overnight. By taxing and regulating narcotics the tax revenues could have been enormous, not to mention the savings from the reduced crime. It seems to be the pros would easily outweigh any cons.

President Fox voiced that opinion in 2009 and again this year. But the money is in the US market, not the Mexican market. Changing the laws regarding pot smoking in Mexico are not going to remove the criminal element from Mexico. California seems to have introduced a major "medical marijuana" scam to achieve the same ends. Interestingly enough, the same thing was done in Prohibition with "medical whiskey".

One aphorism that I like is "Prohibition succeeded in replacing good beer with bad gin." Certainly large number of Americans in 1920 felt that beer and wine was part of their culture, and prohibition went too far. Had it been limited to simply hard liquor, who knows. It might still be in force today.

Vice is never going away. It may be better to legalize it, tax it, and control it somehow to protect the innocent, and the consumers.

Nareed's point is extremely valid. Once you create the criminal organizations, they will find a way to survive. Deprived of the opportunity to sell pot, they branch into much more horrific activities like kidnapping and murder for hire. The kidnap victims in Mexico frequently do not survive their ordeal, and lose much more than their money.

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October 15th, 2011 at 8:33:59 AM permalink

Quote: Wizard
I'm not saying there would be no negative consequences. Yes, some of the former members of the cartels would turn to other crime, but others would turn to legitimate work or retire. There is an economics of crime, the better it pays, the more people will do it. Lower the benefits of crime and you'll see less of it.

that's true. But you should also consider that many people who turn to crime do so because they lack the skills or intelligence for honest work. Not to mention how well crime pays when you have corrupt police, courts and politicians.

Quote:
And why shouldn't the government meddle in the business of narcotics? Don't they meddle in cigarettes and alcohol?

I really don't want to pick a fight with you :)

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October 15th, 2011 at 9:30:41 AM permalink

Quote: pacomartin
President Fox voiced that opinion in 2009 and again this year. But the money is in the US market, not the Mexican market. Changing the laws regarding pot smoking in Mexico are not going to remove the criminal element from Mexico. California seems to have introduced a major "medical marijuana" scam to achieve the same ends. Interestingly enough, the same thing was done in Prohibition with "medical whiskey".

Let me go on record as saying I support Fox's position 100%. A also totally support any state legalizing "medical marijuana," even knowing it anybody can get a prescription from a quack doctor. I favor total legalization, but will take what I can get.

Again, I am not claiming that legalizing any illegal drugs will completely eliminate the criminal element. I do claim it would significantly reduce it.

Yes, I knew about "medical whiskey" during Prohibition. That is how Walgreens spread all over the place during the 20s.

"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)

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October 16th, 2011 at 8:43:18 AM permalink

Fecha: 15 de Octobre, 2011
Estado: Baja California
Palabra: Cebra

Today's state is Baja California. I've been to Baja many times, especially between the ages of 18 and 21, when alcohol was legal in Mexico and not California. I would estimate I've been to Baja about 30 times, including about five week-long trips to San Felipe. Of my time in

Mexico, about 90% has been spent in Baja.

Another thing worth noting is the name of the state is Baja California. No "norte."

I thought for a while about a good word for Baja, and decided to go with Cebra, I think the unofficial mascot of Tijuana. I'm sure the locals just laugh, but when we gringos to to TJ it is a custom to take a picture with a so-called zebra. As everyone knows, they are really donkeys painted to look like a zebra. Who thinks of these things?

An easy way to remember this one is to change the Z to a C.

Here are a couple pictures from my own photo album.

Ejempo time

Quiero que viajar Africa durante el temporada de apareamiento de las cebras. = I want to go to Africa during the zebra mating season.

"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)

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October 16th, 2011 at 9:04:50 AM permalink

Quote: Wizard
I thought for a while about a good word for Baja, and decided to go with Cebra,

That's odd. I'd have sworn zebra is also spelled zebra in Spanish. I even think that was the picture in the reading book for the letter Z, but I don't really trust my memories of preschool. The dictionary does have a definition for zebra, though. Odd.

Quote:
I'm sure the locals just laugh,

Not quite a local, but yes we do :)

Quote:
Quiero que viajar Africa durante el temporada de apareamiento de las cebras. = I want to go to Africa during the zebra mating season.

Lose the "que" and add an "a" before "Africa". Otherwise you're saying "I want what to go Africa...." And it's "LA temporada." Other than that it's ok.

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pacomartin

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October 16th, 2011 at 10:21:37 AM permalink

Un paso de cebra esta en UK.

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October 16th, 2011 at 6:49:42 PM permalink

Fecha: 16 de Octobre, 2011
Estado: Baja California Sur
Palabra: Paz

Today's estado is my favorite in all of Mexico. A relaxing, scenic, clean place I enjoy very much, especially San Jose del Cabo. Cabo San Lucas I find to be very touristy and overrated. I'd love to go back, but my wife would only come kicking and screaming.

For today's word we'll go to the capitol La Paz, which means peace. I'm often confusing paz (peace) and pez (live fish), so hopefully this SWD will help me finally quit mixing them up. In case anybody is wondering, the word for dead fish is pescado, which would also be an appropriate word for Baja California Sur, because of the sport-fishing business.

Ejemplo time.

Todos que estamos diciendo es dar paz una oportunidad. = All we are saying is give peace a chance.

"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)

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October 16th, 2011 at 7:03:48 PM permalink

Quote: Wizard
Palabra: Cebra

Oops!

Quote:
For today's word we'll go to the capitol La Paz, which means peace.

I get to call you on an English word.

CapitOl: a building group where a legislative body meets.

CapitAl: a city serving as a seat of government.

Now, seeing as a state's capitol is usually located at the state's capital, the words would seem to be interchangeable. It's just that they're not. Further, while the various Mexican states, and the DF, do have legislative bodies, these do not meet in capitols.

Back on topic:

Quote:
Todos que estamos diciendo es dar paz una oportunidad. = All we are saying is give peace a chance.

I never cared for that song.

anyway "Todo LO que estamos diciendo es DEN una oportunidad A LA paz"

Todo = Everything or all
Todos= All of us

So your original comes out as "All of us what we're saying is to give a chance peace." More or less.

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October 16th, 2011 at 8:11:53 PM permalink

Quote: Nareed
I get to call you on an English word.

CapitOl: a building group where a legislative body meets.

CapitAl: a city serving as a seat of government.

Ouch! Taken to task in two languages in one post. Actually, thank you, I did not know that distinction between capitol and capital. Even I have to scratch my head and wonder who to blame for making things so hard.

Quote: Nareed
"Todo LO que estamos diciendo es DEN una oportunidad A LA paz".

Somehow that line sounded better in English. As always, thanks. I knew I was going to blow it on that one, but wanted to try anyway.

"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)

pacomartin

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October 16th, 2011 at 8:12:46 PM permalink

Quote: Wizard
Today's estado is my favorite in all of Mexico. A relaxing, scenic, clean place I enjoy very much, especially San Jose del Cabo. Cabo San Lucas I find to be very touristy and overrated. I'd love to go back, but my wife would only come kicking and screaming.

San Jose is a charming place, and it was a real town before the tourist influx. Cabo San Lucas was a small company town that supported a cannery. It is now Los Angeles deep south.

La Paz is more of a tourist town for Mexican nationals, with hotel rooms that start at next to nothing. Not really a beach town, it's more of a kicked back Mexican town where you stroll along the Malecon, and eat lots of seafood and drink beer. Kind of the place you show up on a motorcycle, and stay for 3-10 days.

But it's also a good place for yachts to pull in to the well protected bay.

It's not the best beach town, the beaches are crowded with little shops, and places to eat, it does have one protected signature bay with a beautiful view. No one is allowed to set up a stand to sell tacos, boogie boards or kayaks.

Stay in the Hotel Perla (the original hotel in La Paz, roughly 70 years old). The hotel is old and run down, but right in the center. La Paz is not about luxury, but about hanging out near the restaurants and clubs and having a very economical time.

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October 16th, 2011 at 8:27:55 PM permalink

Quote: Nareed
CapitOl: a building group where a legislative body meets.
CapitAl: a city serving as a seat of government.

Capitol- Latin: Capitolium, temple of Jupiter Optimus Maximus on the Capitoline Hill in ancient Rome.
Capital- Latin: capitalis "of the head".also Late Latin: capitale "stock, property," neut. of capitalis.

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October 16th, 2011 at 8:33:47 PM permalink

Quote: Wizard
Ouch! Taken to task in two languages in one post. Actually, thank you, I did not know that distinction between capitol and capital. Even I have to scratch my head and wonder who to blame for making things so hard.

I've brought it up at least once before. it's a common error, which for some reason annoys me no end.

I think you'll need to blame the Romans. Capital, according to Merriam-Webster, comes from capitalis, mening "chief." While capitol comes from "capitolium," which was the name given to temples to the most important Roman gods, namely to Jupiter. I strongly suspect both words are related to the Latin word for head, which is either "caput" or "capita."

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October 16th, 2011 at 8:43:37 PM permalink

Thanks for all the comments.

It is a common adventure to drive from San Diego to San San Lucas. That is definitely on my bucket list. My parents did it, and had their car broken into in La Paz, and they stole my father's kayak, among other things. Nevertheless, I've heard nice things about La Paz -- a nice place to visit if you want to get away from the other Gringos.

Personally, I strive for a balance between luxury and authenticity. San Jose del Cabo I think strikes that balance very nicely. Just give it time, however, and it will become "discovered" and thus ruined.

"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)

EvenBob

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October 16th, 2011 at 8:52:35 PM permalink

Quote: Wizard
Just give it time, however, and it will become "discovered" and thus ruined.

According to Wiki, it already has been.

"Together with neighboring Cabo San Lucas it (San Jose del Cabo) forms a major tourist destination for travelers, particularly from the United States."

"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."

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October 16th, 2011 at 9:08:32 PM permalink

Quote: Wizard
It is a common adventure to drive from San Diego to San San Lucas. That is definitely on my bucket list. My parents did it, and had their car broken into in La Paz, and they stole my father's kayak, among other things. Nevertheless, I've heard nice things about La Paz -- a nice place to visit if you want to get away from the other Gringos.

Personally, I strive for a balance between luxury and authenticity. San Jose del Cabo I think strikes that balance very nicely. Just give it time, however, and it will become "discovered" and thus ruined.

The best thing to do is to leave San Diego at about 2-3 AM when it is still dark. That way you cross the border and drive to Ensenada in the dark (decent highways). You should pass Ensenada at daylight which will give you maximum daylight hours for the trip. That way you will reach Loreto by nightfall (or at least Santa Rosalia). Do not try to drive at night.

La Paz will probably not be discovered since it was the place to stay in the 50's and the 60's (before the road was built). That's why there are so many old hotels there. It has been supplanted by Los Cabos (both towns) and the East Cape. The airport has limited air access, and the beaches are tiny and rough. The town is also a good size which drives away some of the tourists who like exclusivity.

The American tourists are more of the fishermen, or the types hiding out from society. Not bad people, but not artificial tanned LA crowd. But seriously there are a lot of Mexican tourists (and a mix of Europeans).

I didn't see a lot of kayaks, but there are a lot of these flat bottom boats that people take to nearby islands.

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October 17th, 2011 at 4:56:17 PM permalink

Quote: Wizard
Fecha: 15 de Octobre, 2011

Talk about not paying attention. Who knows how long this has been going on.

The name of the month is OctUbre.

It's derived from the latin word for the number 8, the root "octo" is very common in many languages, including English.

So why 8 when it's the tenth month? Well, the Romans started their year in March and ended it in Ferburary. Count that way and the 7th, 8th, 8th and 10th months are September, October, November and December. Their names are derived from the latin names of the numbers 7, 8, 9 and 10. In Spanish siete, ocho, nueve y diez.

If you ask me, it makes more sense for the year to begin in the Spring and end in the Winter. I've no idea when or why it was changed. Perhaps in the Gregorian reform of the calendar, though then the question is why some months retained their names of pagan deities (January = Janus) or Roman emperors.

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October 17th, 2011 at 11:11:03 PM permalink

Fecha: 18 de Octubre, 2011
Estado: Campeche
Palabra: culebra

Today's estado is Campeche, which is believed to be a Mayan word meaning snakes and ticks. So, for lack of a better idea, today's word of the day is culebra = snake. Not to be confused with serpiente. A question for the advanced readers is to compare and contrast the two words for snake.

Also, is Campeche still infested with snakes and ticks? Finally, is it just me or would anyone else have a terrible time pronouncing the names of these major cities and ruin sites in Campeche: Dzitbalché, Hecelchakán, Dzibilnocac, Edzná, Hocchob, Holactún, Uxul, Xicalango, Xpuhil, and Xtampak. Talk about a lot of Scrabble points.

Ejemplo time.

Mi serpiente tiene hambre, entonces que voy a alimentarlo un ratón. = My snake is hungry, so I'm going to feed it a mouse.

"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)

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