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pacomartin
pacomartin
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May 20th, 2011 at 2:48:52 PM permalink
Quote: Nareed

In Mexico, at least, crawling while nearly flat to the ground is called "pecho tierra."



I don't know if there is a special English verb to distinguish the two. It' usually called an army crawl or a "military crawl".

As far as vocabulary lists, the 501 Spanish verbs has been around for 50 years, and nearly every student has one. There are an additional 1000 verbs in an appendix that follow the examples. Many people also have electronic translators but everything always seemed inadequate. Every day someone would use a verb that wasn't in the book or electronic device. But the speaker would always claim it was a common verb. It got frustrating.

They say a college educated person knows 17,000 word lemmas, which alway seems daunting.
Nareed
Nareed
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May 20th, 2011 at 3:15:17 PM permalink
Quote: pacomartin

I don't know if there is a special English verb to distinguish the two. It' usually called an army crawl or a "military crawl".



"Pecho tierra" can't be easily translated. it's a phrase, not a word, made of two nouns. the literal translations is "Breast/Chest ground."

Quote:

As far as vocabulary lists, the 501 Spanish verbs has been around for 50 years, and nearly every student has one. There are an additional 1000 verbs in an appendix that follow the examples. Many people also have electronic translators but everything always seemed inadequate. Every day someone would use a verb that wasn't in the book or electronic device. But the speaker would always claim it was a common verb. It got frustrating.



That's why it's better to use a dictionary in the language you're learning. Even a heavily abridged, pocket edition is likely to be much better. The electronic and computer translators are limited by the anture of computer translation anyway, even if they carried every word imaginable. I haven't bothered with them for years.

What is common or not varies by region and time. Back when we visited the grandparents in Monterrey, a soda was called a soda while in Mex City it was "refresco." The last few times I've been there, more people seem to use "refresco" and less use "soda." Likewise you probably won't hear anyone over 12 anywahere in Mexico use the verb "coger" to mean grab or take. Spaniards use it that way all the time. Funny thing, though, mexicans use the verb "recoger", meaning to pick something up, without a second thought or even a mild blush.
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Nareed
Nareed
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May 20th, 2011 at 4:06:50 PM permalink
Quote: pacomartin

Correct. Good good response. No thoughtcrime for you.



I missed that.

You get a failing grade on Newspeak. While thoughtcrime is a word, you missed using plusgood in the middle sentence. Please report to thoughtpolice for immediate transfer to minilove.

As I recall, in the novel Winston writes an entire newspaper entry in newspeak, and O'Brian dictates official correspondence using it. Other than that it was used in isolated words. Even the telescreen announcers dind't use it consistently. I'd look it up, but that book still gives me the shivers.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
Nareed
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May 21st, 2011 at 6:50:14 AM permalink
Quote: pacomartin

full transcript
video of routine



BTW Paco I found the lyrics for Les Luthiers complete works:

http://www.lesluthiers.org/listado.php?modo=Obras

Look up Cantata del Adelantado Don Rodrigo Diaz de Carreras...
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
Wizard
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Wizard
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May 21st, 2011 at 7:54:04 AM permalink
Fecha: 21 de Mayo
Palabra del día: TERREMOTO


In honor of judgement day, the word for today is terremoto = earthquake. This one is pretty easy to break down, although I'm sure Paco can take it even deeper.

The "terre" seems obviously a derivative of tierra = earth. In English the root "terr" can be found in lots of words having to do with the ground, such as: terrace, terrain, terrarium, terrestrial, and territory. A good question for Paco would be do the words terrible and terrific stem from this use of "terr"? If so, how, if not, why the "terr"?

The "moto" seems obviously a derivative of mover = move/shake. How the second "t" got into terremoto I don't know, perhaps Paco can explain it.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
pacomartin
pacomartin
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May 21st, 2011 at 10:28:41 AM permalink
INTRODUCTION
One thing you learn from studying ancient languages like Latin or Greek is that language structure has gotten simpler over the last few thousand years, while vocabulary has gotten much more extensive. A single word could spawn a verb and a noun and a whole bunch of different spellings, suffixes, and prefixes which generated all the English and Spanish words today.

BACKGROUND
The Latin noun for earth is obviously one of the best known Latin words today, terra. But all Latin nouns had declensions. Declensions are almost completely absent from English, and largely absent from Spanish except for the dreaded gender. Although we recognize that nouns can be subjects, direct objects, or indirect objects in both English and Spanish, in neither case do we change the spelling or endings of the noun, but rely on word placement and helping words to explain the difference.

So the related noun terror in Latin (one of those very rare words which has come to English completely unchanged) is declined as follows:
Number Singular Plural
nominative terror terrōrēs
genitive terrōris terrōrum
dative terrōrī terrōribus
accusative terrōrem terrōrēs
ablative terrōre terrōribus
vocative terror terrōrēs


As a verb, which means "to frighten" you have
infinitive terrēre,
perfect active terruī,
supine territum (the supine aspect is lost to both English and Spanish)
present active terreō,

Latin verbs have the following properties:
three persons: first person, second person, third person
two numbers: singular, plural
two aspects: perfective (finished) and imperfective (unfinished)
six tenses: Present, Imperfect, Future, Perfect, Pluperfect, Future Perfect
three finite moods: indicative mood, subjunctive mood, imperative mood
four non-finite forms: infinitive, gerund, participle, supine
two voices: active voice and passive voice
- In Latin you have well over a 100 endings for every verb as you try to cover all of the above cases. A fully conjugated verb in Latin looks overwhelming.

mōtus
mōtum
mōta
moveō , movēs , movet , movēmus , movētis , movent
movēbō , movēbis , movēbit , movēbimus , movēbitis , movēbunt
movēbam , movēbās , movēbat , movēbāmus , movēbātis , movēbant
mōvī , mōvistī , mōvit , mōvimus , mōvistis , mōvērunt
mōverō , mōveris , mōverit , mōverimus , mōveritis , mōverint
mōveram , mōverās , mōverat , mōverāmus , mōverātis , mōverant
moveor , movēris , movētur , movēmur , movēminī , moventur
movēbor , movēberis , movēbitur , movēbimur , movēbiminī , movēbuntur
movēbar , movēbāris , movēbātur , movēbāmur , movēbāminī , movēbantur
moveam , moveās , moveat , moveāmus , moveātis , moveant
movērem , movērēs , movēret , movērēmus , movērētis , movērent
mōverim , mōverīs , mōverit , mōverīmus , mōverītis , mōverint
mōvissem , mōvissēs , mōvisset , mōvissēmus , mōvissētis , mōvissent
movear , moveāris , moveātur , moveāmur , moveāminī , moveantur
movērer , movērēris , movērētur , movērēmur , movērēminī , movērentur
movē , movētō , movētō , movēre , movētor , movētor
movēte , movētōte , moventō , movēminī , , moventor
movēre , mōvisse , mōtūrus esse , movērī , mōtus esse , mōtum īrī
movēns (moventis) , , mōtūrus-ra, -rum , , mōtus-a, -um , movendus-nda, -ndum

- You are clearly more aware of these cases in Spanish than in English because the language is inflected with so many different suffixes. While in English you say "I am reading", and "Reading is good for you", you don't change the spelling of "reading" even though you are using the word as a present participle in the first sentence, and then as a gerund (a verb turned into a noun) in the second sentence.
- In Spanish you would have to change the verb ending "estoy leyendo", and "leer es muy bueno".


ATTEMPT TO ANSWER QUESTIONS

Why the "terr" stem: It is probably more correct to say that "tierra" came from "terra", and that all the related English words that have something to do with the ground derived from the same word.

Terrific meant "terrifying" in English for hundreds of years, and only acquired the meaning of "excellent" in the late 19th century. I don't know specifically how it transformed. Sometimes a single influential writer can change the meaning of a word.

The second t. After my rather cursive discussion of declensions and conjugations in Latin it should not surprise you that the Latin verb movere or "to move, set in motion" had verb forms such as motus.
pacomartin
pacomartin
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May 21st, 2011 at 11:22:06 AM permalink
It is always interesting to me that people developed these complicated sets of language rules before they knew how to write or to do simple mathematics when life expectancy was probably close to age 20.

English has roughly 20% of it's vocabulary from the Germanic, Anglo Saxon, Norse history but these words are the majority of the words we use, and AS dictated our language structure. While spelling rules can be complex, it helps me to try and compare a Spanish word to the common English word that are both derived from the same Latin word. While you can easily translate a Spanish word to an Anglo Saxon English word you are going back 2000 years and there is often some fundamental differences.

Even on the most basic level, we translate "estar" in Spanish to "am, are, is, was" in English, but the Spanish word has a shared meaning with the English word "status".
Wizard
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May 22nd, 2011 at 5:22:18 AM permalink
Fecha: 22 de Mayo
Palabra del día: CABALLO


In honor of the Preakness winner, Shackleford, the word of the day is caballo = horse.

That is pretty much it. I have no good memory device to help you remember it, but maybe Paco can help with that. Don't confuse it with cabello, which is a word for hair. So, how about some ejemplos.

No me gustan los caballos = I don't like horses.

Olvidé apostar a mi caballo favorito = I forgot to bet on my favorite horse.

Mi caballo es lento = My horse is slow.

Thx Nareed for the corrections.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
Nareed
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May 22nd, 2011 at 5:30:55 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

No me gustan caballos = I don't like horses.



No me gustan LOS caballos.


Quote:

Olvido apostar a mi caballo favorito = I forgot to bet on my favorite horse.



"Olvidé apostar...." Otherwise you're either saying "I forget to bet..." with the verb in present tense, or "He forgot to bet..."
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Wizard
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May 22nd, 2011 at 9:32:28 AM permalink
Quote: Nareed

No me gustan LOS caballos.



Wouldn't that be saying "I don't like THE horses." I meant to say I don't like horses in general, so omitted the "the."

Quote:

"Olvidé apostar...."



You evidently didn't see me pointing backwards, indicating the past tense.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.

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