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konceptum
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June 7th, 2011 at 12:22:33 AM permalink
Quote: pacomartin

but neither do I know why "kicking the bucket" means to die.


Hogs were slaughtered by hanging them from a beam, called a bucket at the time. In their death throes, their feet would kick the bucket.
Wizard
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June 7th, 2011 at 6:59:30 AM permalink
Fecha: 7 de Junio, 2011
Palabra del día: Orgullo


Today we wrap up our coverage of the Seven Deadly Sins. Congratulations to Doc and Paco for figuring it out, although I think Doc got it after two strikes. Today's final sin, orgullo means pride. Here are some related words:

Soberbia = Also means pride. Paco said by PM earlier, "While they both technically translate as pride, soberbia sometimes implies arrogance while orgullo is more neutral."
Orgulloso = Prideful.
Vanidad = Vanity

Ejemplo time.



El profesor está lleno de orgullo. Él siempre está presumiendo lo listo que es. = The professor is full of pride. He is always showing off how smart he is.

Here are some other vocab words in there:

lleno = full
siempre = always
presumiendo = past tense "he/she/Ud." form of presumir = show off
listo = smart.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
pacomartin
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June 7th, 2011 at 7:30:14 AM permalink
The seven deadly sins idea is older than the English, Spanish , French, or Italian languages. Sometimes attributed to Thomas Aquinas in the middle ages, he actually was writing about a concept nearly a thousand years old. But he did a lot to solidify Catholic thinking about levels of sin. Because the sins were originally written in Latin, there is some discrepancy in the modern words used to translate them (in Spanish or English or French).

pride superiority greed avarice lust envy gluttony wrath ire sloth laziness English Seven deadly sins
S A L I G I A Acronym
superbia avaritia luxuria invidia gula ira acedia Latin septem peccata mortalia
superbia avarizia lussuria invidia gola ira accidia  Italian sette vizi capitali 
soberbia avaricia lujuria envidia gula ira pereza Spanish Los siete pecados mortales
l'orgueil l'avarice la luxure l'envie la gourmandise la colère la paresse French les sept péchés capitaux


greedy is Anglo Saxon in origin, while avarice is derived from Latin
pride is Anglo Saxon in origin, while vanity and superior are derived from Latin
sloth is Anglo Saxon in origin, acedia is a very rarely used English word, "lazy" (16th century) is of indeterminate origin

While “pride” is often thought of as a virtue, “superiority” is almost always implies haughtiness or arrogance and is considered a sin.
In older proverbs like “pride goes before a fall” the word pride refers to the “first sin” of Lucifer in thinking he was as great as God and it is definitely a sin. In English “vanity” is often used almost universally as a negative adjective.

Orgullo is a newer word than “soberbia” in Spanish, and it is derived from a Catalan word. Many people use it for the “good pride”, but the two words are not used consistently in that manner. (See Real Academia Española definitions).

orgullo. (Del Catalan orgull) m.
Arrogancia, vanidad, exceso de estimación propia, que a veces es disimulable por nacer de causas nobles y virtuosas.

soberbia. (Del Latin superbĭa).
1. f. Altivez y apetito desordenado de ser preferido a otros.
2. f. Satisfacción y envanecimiento por la contemplación de las propias prendas con menosprecio de los demás.
3. f. Especialmente hablando de los edificios, exceso en la magnificencia, suntuosidad o pompa.
4. f. Cólera e ira expresadas con acciones descompuestas o palabras altivas e injuriosas.
5. f. ant. Palabra o acción injuriosa.

En general es definida como “amor desordenado de sí mismo”. Según Santo Tomás la soberbia es “un apetito desordenado de la propia excelencia”


Wizard
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June 7th, 2011 at 8:18:38 AM permalink
Thanks Paco for the in-depth coverage on the Seven Deadly Sins. Interesting to note that mention of such a list is nowhere in the bible.

You may have noticed I used an example from Gilligan's Island for each sin. I have to confess this was not an original idea, but taken from the Seven Deadly Sins of Gilligan's Island Theory. If you're too perezoso to click on the link, it suggests that everyone except Gilligan represents one of the seven sins, except the Skipper represents two. Who is missing?



As the theory states, Gilligan is the devil. Notice how it is always Gilligan who screws up every rescue attempt, keeping them on the island, to suffer for their sins.

I think comparisons could also easily be made to Lost. Every major character had some sort of character flaw to work through. Without the distractions of the outside world, they were forced to deal with their inner demons. Meanwhile Jacob played the role of Gilligan, messing with everybody's head; keeping them all on the island one way or another.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
Doc
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June 7th, 2011 at 8:45:17 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Interesting to note that mention of such a list is nowhere in the bible.


In my PM's to you yesterday (trying to get the wording and the exact sin correct), I mentioned the Wikipedia article on this. They claim that it started in the Bible with a very different list:

Quote: Wikipedia

In the Book of Proverbs (Mishlai), King Solomon stated that the Lord specifically regards "six things the Lord hateth, and the seventh His soul detesteth." namely:

A proud look.
A lying tongue.
Hands that shed innocent blood.
A heart that devises wicked plots.
Feet that are swift to run into mischief.
A deceitful witness that uttereth lies.
Him that soweth discord among brethren.

While there are seven of them, this list is considerably different from the traditional one, with only pride clearly being in both lists.


They also say that the list grew to eight before dropping back to seven.

I also noted yesterday that, like Nareed, I am not Catholic -- I can't keep up with what the Bible actually says, much less all of the stuff the popes and their councils make up.
pacomartin
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June 7th, 2011 at 9:03:22 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

As the theory states, Gilligan is the devil. Notice how it is always Gilligan who screws up every rescue attempt, keeping them on the island, to suffer for their sins.




I like the theory. I wonder if Sherwood Schwartz continued the theme with his next TV series, the Brady Bunch. I guess you have a Devil and God to make 9 characters.

It certainly fits Jean Paul Sartre's existential theory that "hell is being trapped with people" for the rest of eternity. If you ever see a picture of stage with three good looking people in it (2 women and a man) looking very upset, it is probably "No Exit" (written in 1944) where the damned are condemned to hell being forced to sit in a small room, and alternately try to seduce each other, to talk with one another, to tell their life story, to justify their actions, and to torture each other.
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June 7th, 2011 at 9:04:56 AM permalink
Quote: Proverbs 6: 16-19


16 These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:
17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,
18 An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,
19 A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.



It makes you wonder which one is the one that god hated, but didn't rise to the level of being an abomination.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
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June 7th, 2011 at 9:07:32 AM permalink
Quote: pacomartin

...it is probably "No Exit" (written in 1944) where the damned are condemned to hell being forced to sit in a small room, and alternately try to seduce each other, to talk with one another, to tell their life story, to justify their actions, and to torture each other.



Sounds like any given Samuel Beckett play.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
pacomartin
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June 7th, 2011 at 9:22:45 AM permalink
Quote: Doc

I am not Catholic -- I can't keep up with what the Bible actually says, much less all of the stuff the popes and their councils make up.


Well you are certainly not Catholic.

The Spanish speaking people are either Catholic, or Catholicism is a big part of their culture. Uruguay is widely considered the most secular nation in Western Hemisphere, but they are an exception. The virgin of Guadalupe is still one of the strongest symbols of Mexico in the country.

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June 7th, 2011 at 9:35:32 AM permalink
Quote: pacomartin

The virgin of Guadalupe is still one of the strongest symbols of Mexico in the country.



I have yet to get a straight answer to the question of whether the Virgin of Guadalupe is the same person as the Virgin Mary.

My weekly house cleaner is named Lupe. I assumed that was short for Guadalupe, which was enough credentials for me to pester her with questions about the virgin of Guadalupe. She said they were indeed the same person, but I wasn't entirely convinced she knew what she was talking about.

Furthermore, why didn't they name Mexico City Guadalupe City instead?
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
pacomartin
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June 7th, 2011 at 10:53:37 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

I have yet to get a straight answer to the question of whether the Virgin of Guadalupe is the same person as the Virgin Mary.

My weekly house cleaner is named Lupe. I assumed that was short for Guadalupe, which was enough credentials for me to pester her with questions about the virgin of Guadalupe. She said they were indeed the same person, but I wasn't entirely convinced she knew what she was talking about.

Furthermore, why didn't they name Mexico City Guadalupe City instead?



They are certainly the same person as the Virgin Mary. I know that for certain. However, they are apparitions, or appearances of Mary. After Mary began her rule over heaven, she appears as different ladies. The Virgin of Guadalupe is brown skinned virgin, who is dressed in the clothing of an Aztec Princess. Her likeness on the cloth is an "Acheiropoieta" or a piece of art not made by human hands. The most famous of these is probably the "Shroud of Turin".

Mary is a virgin when she gives birth to Jesus in all branches of Christianity. But, "the brothers of Jesus" are mentioned once or twice in all four gospels of Jesus. Protestants typically believe that after giving birth to Jesus, Mary and Joseph married, had normal relations, and she gave birth to the children of Joseph. Orthodox tend to believe that they are children of Joseph from a previous marriage, that Mary raised. Anglicans believe the word is mistranslated and they are cousins. Catholics also believe that they are cousins, but they are from a sister of Mary who may have also been named Mary.

Catholics believe in
1) Virgin birth of Jesus, as the mother of God
2) "el dogma de la virginidad perpetua de la Virgen María " or that Mary remained a virgin her whole life.
3) The "Immaculate Conception of Mary" or that Mary was conceived without original sin (even though she was conceived by normal sexual intercourse ),
4) The Assumption of Mary or that Mary was assumed into heaven with body and soul (de fide). Which is why she can manifest herself throughout history on earth in different forms.

The city was founded by the Mexica people, in 1325 (2 centuries before the conquest). Their principal name for the city was Tenochtitlan, but after the Spaniard's destroyed the city, they rebuilt it. The Spanish found it easier to say Mexico than Tenochtitlan. I don't know if other names were considered.

The completely atheistic view of the Virgin of Guadalupe starts with the Spaniards tore down the temple of a local goddess Tonantzin. They rebuilt a temple to Virgin Mary on the site. The indigenous people still came to worship, and seemed to have no trouble referring to Mary as Tonantzin. From this beginning, they developed the ruse that would cause the greatest mass conversion in history.
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June 7th, 2011 at 11:59:13 AM permalink
Quote: pacomartin

The indigenous people still came to worship, and seemed to have no trouble referring to Mary as Tonantzin. From this beginning, they developed the ruse that would cause the greatest mass conversion in history.



What would we do without you Paco? Thanks for the executive summary of Catholicism. I didn't know that Mary is believed to have been raised from the dead too. Religious history is not my strong point, but I think this is not the only case where Catholicism adapted itself to seem like another religion in an effort to trick its followers into becoming Catholic. I must admit that I admire its success.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
odiousgambit
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June 7th, 2011 at 12:10:02 PM permalink
Quote: pacomartin

Catholics believe...Mary was conceived ... by normal sexual intercourse



Really? This is very Zeus-like of God ... at least I was thinking that Jesus did not have a mortal father. I had thought "immaculate" meant no sexual intercourse actually.
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pacomartin
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June 7th, 2011 at 1:46:27 PM permalink
Quote: odiousgambit

I had thought "immaculate" meant no sexual intercourse actually.



That misbelief is actually very common among Protestants. I actually don't know that much about Catholicism, but I had the same questions about Mary and the virgins as you did when I lived in Mexico. There are so many virgins, that I thought I should at least understand the basic dogmas about Mary.

While the "virgin birth" and the "mother of god" are basic tenents of all forms of Christianity, the other three dogmas "perpetual virginity", "immaculate conception", and " assumption of Mary" are not universally shared. The apparitions are certainly not part of Protestanism. Once again, there are athiests who believe that it was easy for the church to mask Mary as an indigenous goddess since much of Mary worship smacks of pagan goddess worship to begin with.

In Europe the practice of converting pagan practices to Christian practices produced our best known rituals. The most significant was converting the Saturnalia and the winter solstice into the celebration of the birth of Christ. Most preachers simply dodge the issue of when Jesus was actually born by saying "this is the day we celebrate the birth of Jesus Christ". Most common Christmas things like indoor trees, decorations, yule logs, etc. started as pagan customs.

In Mexico, large numbers of pagan customs were converted. The Day of the Dead is the most prominent. It combines a respect for ancestors with Halloween like festivities, and spending the night in a graveyard.
odiousgambit
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June 7th, 2011 at 1:58:47 PM permalink
Quote:

perpetual virginity & sexual intercourse



these seem so incompatible I think I need to talk to a Priest [g]
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!”   She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
pacomartin
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June 7th, 2011 at 2:04:40 PM permalink
Quote: odiousgambit

these seem so incompatible I think I need to talk to a Priest


The sexual intercourse was between the parents of Mary. She was still conceived "immaculately", that is without "original sin". It was Mary who was a perpetual virgin.
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June 7th, 2011 at 2:08:27 PM permalink
Quote: pacomartin

While the "virgin birth" and the "mother of god" are basic tenents of all forms of Christianity, the other three dogmas "perpetual virginity", "immaculate conception", and " assumption of Mary" are not universally shared.



I've known some Protestants who didn't believe in the virgin birth. Granted, this liberal point of view is not in the majority. However, I think I could say that most Protestants feel the emphasis Catholics put on Mary borders on idolatry, and much of their dogma about her is not based on the bible. As evidence, when Jesus seemed to find fault with a Mary worshiper with this passage:

Quote: Luke 11:27-28

As Jesus was saying these things, a woman in the crowd called out, “Blessed is the mother who gave you birth and nursed you.” He replied, “Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it.”

"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
pacomartin
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June 7th, 2011 at 3:16:36 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

I've known some Protestants who didn't believe in the virgin birth. Granted, this liberal point of view is not in the majority. However, I think I could say that most Protestants feel the emphasis Catholics put on Mary borders on idolatry, and much of their dogma about her is not based on the bible. As evidence, when Jesus seemed to find fault with a Mary worshiper with this passage:



I didn't say there weren't people who questioned it. I meant that there is no denomination that questions the dogma. Even Muslims believe that Jesus was born to a virgin. The Qur'an does not even mention Joseph. Mary gives birth under a miracle palm tree.

Mariolatry is the name that some protestants give to the dogmas associated with the worship of Mary. Some people might say that it was relatively easy to allow Mary to replace a pagan goddess in Mexico, because many of the beliefs had been adopted from goddess worship in the first place.

Tonantzin is making a comeback in the USA and in Mexico. Some of the pre conquest names are becoming popular in some parts of Mexico.
Nareed
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June 7th, 2011 at 6:50:38 PM permalink
I go off for one day and I find all this. Remarkable.

I'll get to it as time permits. Today I'm beat from a 750 km round trip.
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Nareed
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June 7th, 2011 at 8:30:28 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

El profesor está lleno de orgullo. Él siempre está mostrando lo listo que es. = The professor is full of pride. He is always showing off how smart he is.



Mostrando does mean showing. But showing off is translated as "presumiendo," the verb is "presumir."
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pacomartin
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June 7th, 2011 at 10:32:20 PM permalink
Quote: Nareed


Mostrando does mean showing. But showing off is translated as "presumiendo," the verb is "presumir."



Nareed
How are these translations?

Él siempre está presumiendo - He is always showing off
El siempre está presuntuoso - He is always presumptious
El es presuntuoso - He is a presumptious man
Él presume que el está siempre correcto - He boasts that he is always correct
Él presume que el está muy inteligente - He boasts that he is very intelligent
Él ha presumado que el está muy inteligente - He has bragged that he is very intelligent
Él había presumado que el estába muy inteligente, en la isla - He had bragged that he was very smart on the island
Él está muy inteligente - He is very intelligent
Wizard
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June 7th, 2011 at 11:23:22 PM permalink
Quote: Nareed

Mostrando does mean showing. But showing off is translated as "presumiendo," the verb is "presumir."



Thanks. Somebody tell translate.google.com.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
pacomartin
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June 8th, 2011 at 12:22:51 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Thanks. Somebody tell translate.google.com.



Google Translate does not apply grammatical rules, since its algorithms are based on statistical analysis rather than traditional rule-based analysis. A solid base for developing a usable statistical machine translation system for a new pair of languages from scratch, would consist in having a bilingual text corpus (or parallel collection) of more than a million words and two monolingual corpora of each more than a billion words. Statistical models from this data are then used to translate between those languages.

To acquire this huge amount of linguistic data, Google used United Nations documents. The UN typically publishes documents in all six official UN languages, which has produced a very large 6-language corpus.

Because Google Translate uses statistical matching to translate rather than a dictionary/grammar rules approach, translated text can often include apparently nonsensical and obvious errors, often swapping common terms for similar but nonequivalent common terms in the other language, as well as inverting sentence meaning.

Google is shutting down it's free translation software in December

Quote: personal experience


There is a lot of statistical matching done in signal processing when I worked in research and development for the Navy. What is frustrating is that it clearly is not working sometimes. But since there are no algorithms there is nothing to tweak. Just endless calls for "more data"



After much searching, I did find a pretty comprehensive phrasal verb list of translations (English to Spanish only)

Examples:

Show (someone) around:
Mostrarle (a alguien) los alrededores, la ciudad, etc. Llevar a alguien a conocer la ciudad.
ex. "Don't worry, I'll show you around." (No te preocupes. Te llevo a conocer la ciudad.)

Show off:
Presumir.
ex. "He just loves to show off his new car, doesn't he?" (A él le encanta presumir con su nuevo coche, ¿qué no?

Show up:
1) Llegar. Asomarse. Aparecer.
ex. "He showed up at his aunt's house at 4 o'clock in the morning." (Llegó a la casa de su tía a las 4:00 de la mañana.)

2) To show (someone) up - Hacer quedar mal (a alguien)
ex. "The opening band showed the headliners up"
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June 8th, 2011 at 7:28:19 AM permalink
Fecha: 8 de Junio, 2011
Palabra del día: Vegas


I've always been told that Las Vegas means such things as the meadows or fertile valley. This would make some sense because Las Vegas is in a valley surrounded by small mountain ranges. It was also a reliable source of cold springs for those traveling between Los Angeles and Salt Lake City. That all sounds fine and dandy. However, if you look of Vegas in a Spanish to English dictionary you get jack squat. If you look up meadow in the English to Spanish side then you get prado or pradera.

So I fail to see any support for the theory that Vegas=meadows, other than word of mouth. Perhaps Paco or Nareed can help shed some light on the etymology of the word. I'd like to remind Paco about the fine job he did at the last mystery word, pardall [sic]. Let's skip the "lost wages" jokes.

Ejemplo time

Me gusta parar al prado entonces mi caballo se puede beber agua. = I like to stop at the spring so my horse is able to drink water.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
Nareed
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June 8th, 2011 at 8:42:08 AM permalink
The dictionary defines "vega" as: Parte de tierra baja, llana y fértil.

Me, I learned Las Vegas means "the meadows" on a Showtime tour of Hoover Dam. Othern than applies to Las Vegas, too, I'd never heard any use of the word vega or vegas.

Oh, well, the translation of the above definition is "part of the land that's low, flat and fertile" I've no idea what low means in this context.
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Nareed
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June 8th, 2011 at 8:45:57 AM permalink
Quote: pacomartin

Él presume que el está muy inteligente - He boasts that he is very intelligent



El presume que ES muy...

Quote:

Él ha presumado que el está muy inteligente - He has bragged that he is very intelligent



El ha presumido que ES muy... the second "el" is superflous. Oh, and its presumIdo rather than presumAdo

Quote:

Él había presumado que el estába muy inteligente, en la isla - He had bragged that he was very smart on the island
Él está muy inteligente - He is very intelligent



Se above about ES and the repetition of "el" and again presumAdo is not a word.
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Wizard
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June 8th, 2011 at 9:44:07 AM permalink
Quote: Nareed

The dictionary defines "vega" as: Parte de tierra baja, llana y fértil.

Me, I learned Las Vegas means "the meadows" on a Showtime tour of Hoover Dam. Othern than applies to Las Vegas, too, I'd never heard any use of the word vega or vegas.

Oh, well, the translation of the above definition is "part of the land that's low, flat and fertile" I've no idea what low means in this context.



You must have a bigger dictionary than me. Low probably refers to the location being down in the valley, surrounded by mountains. That is why Vegas is prone to flash flooding.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
Nareed
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June 8th, 2011 at 9:48:35 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

You must have a bigger dictionary than me. Low probably refers to the location being down in the valley, surrounded by mountains. That is why Vegas is prone to flash flooding.



All I did was go to google.com.mx, type "diccioanrio" in the serach box, click on the first link (I didn't notice which one it was), and once there searched for "vega."
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pacomartin
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June 8th, 2011 at 10:04:37 AM permalink
EDIT: I took to long writing this answer, since several more comments have been added. The word is not in google translation probably because it is not commonly used to mean "flatland" anymore. Google does statistical translations. You should always double check with RAE.

Quote: Wizard

Palabra del día: Vegas



The Real Academia ESPAÑOLA says it is from a Pre-Roman word *vaica. Incidentally when a dictionary puts a * in front of the word, there is not a clear written history to the word. It is a guess by linguists as to how the word was pronounced. As there was no written language in Spain much before the Roman invasion, the research is all done through archeology, and linguistic analysis.

Vega is a feminine noun defined as parte de tierra baja or "lowlands" or as llana y fértil which means fertile flat land. There was a park in Oaxaca city that everyone called "El Llano" because it was completely flat.

The word "prado" is also spanish for "meadow" but is based on the latin word "pratum". It is more commonly used since that is the word that google uses for the translation.

Young girls posing in El llano.


Quote: Sidebar Spanish pre-history


Traces of modern man in Spain have been dated roughly 32 thousand years ago. It is generally assumed man came into Europe 50K years ago as part of his march out of Africa. Neanderthal skulls have also been unearthed in Southern Spain at about the same time. Parts of the peninsula remained warm (not the center) through the ice age, and were a bastion where survival of the species in Europe was possible. After the ice age about 11000 years ago the re-population of Europe began. The people who lived in Spain at that time are called Iberians.

Palaeolithic era caves at El Soplao and Altamira Caves in northern Spain near Santander with extravegant cave paintings are discovered in 1789 which are later dated 14K years ago. Metalworking begins about 5K years ago. About 3100 years ago Cadiz is rumored to be established by Hercules, but more probably Phoenician traders.

Less than 3000 years ago the celts come into Spain from Germany through France and across the Pyrenees. By 600BCE, they have established a culture in northern Spain. The Celts mixed with the Iberians in central Spain and subsequently produced the "Celtiberian" race.

Wikipedia has a list of Spanish words of Iberian or Basque origin.

Written history begins with Hannibal crossing through Spain on his way to the Alps with his team of war elephants to invade the Roman empire. These elephants from northern Africa are now extinct. Shortly afterwards the Romans invade and make modern Spain a critical component of their empire.

Nareed
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June 8th, 2011 at 3:25:57 PM permalink
Quote: pacomartin

But most English books describe "Tengo frío" as a Spanish idiom where "an idiom" is defined as an expression that cannot be immediately understood by analyzing its literal meaning.



As my history teacher used to say "Why do you insist on making my life so difficult?"

Seriously, she did say that...

Anwyay, it's not an idiom because that's how the expression is commonly used. I understand a literal translation is meaingless (I have cold), but that's true for many literal translations. The english term "crossexamine" has no good one-term translation into Spanish, for example. It may seem like an idiom, I'll admit, but treating it like that only complicates matters.

Quote:

Although it is common in textbooks to call it an idiomatic phrase, I never thought that the phrase "tengo frío" should properly described that way. The original latin word had the concept of sensation or feeling to it. We would not get the English word tender or in Spanish tierno from the same latin word. If you look it up the Latin it has the possible translation of "soft".



Sure. and plenty of words have drifted from what they meant in the original Latin, too. and soe words seem to mean the opposite of their apparent meaning. Like "inflamable," which works about as well in English and Spanish. I won't go into why it seems to mean "won't burn" when it actually means "will catch fire easily," because I'm sure you can figure it out or already know.

The point is the original meaning only takes you so far. usage changes menaings.


Quote:

But since it is described as an idiom, people do what the wizard did, and try to count the idioms using tener, that actually literally translate similar to "I have cold". But I admit I have trouble coming up with the proper word to describe the "feelings" associated with tener.



It's simple, really. Any phrase starting with "tengo" and following with a feeling like hunger, cold, thirst, envy, etc, translates as "I'm cold, hungry, thirsty, wahtever." If tengo is followed by anything else, then it means "I have..."


Quote:

It's like the sentence "mi abuelo está muerto" . Many people tell english speakers that estar is "to be" for temporary things, and "ser" is "to be" for permanent attributes. So an English speakers always say "mi abuelo es muerto" since they think death is a very permanent condition.



That's so wrong I don't know where to start.

Let's see. Estar means both location "Yo estoy en la oficina," and a current state "yo estoy contenta."

As far as I can see, it's the same in english. You'd ask someone "how are you?" and expect an answer like "I'm fine," or "I'm sick," or something. You might also ask someone "where are you?" and expect to here "I'm at home," or "I'm on the highway heading towards Topeka."

Ser means something more along the lines of being. So "Mi abuelo es muerto" would translate back in English as "My grandfather be dead," which really fails to make sense. If you ask someone "who are you?" she'd reply "I'm your worst nigthmare," for example. That means "Soy tu peor pesadilla." If you ask "Who is she?" and the answer is "She is the new history teacher," that translates as "es al nueva maestra de historia." That's the common use of the verb Ser.


Quote:

My Oaxacan Spanish teacher told me that "death is not permanent in Mexico (unlike the USA) because they are Catholic and they celebrate the day of the dead".



I don't know what the goyim believe, but I've never heard anyone in this country say death is not permanent, outside of psychics and assorted wackos. I know little about el día de los muertos beyond the facts that 1) I usually get the day off, 2) cemeteries are packed and flower sellers make a killing and 3) you find candy skulls for sale everywhere.

BTw elsewhere in this thread you claim the day of the dead is a pagan thing, which I suppose ti is. In this post you relay someone describing as a Catholic thing. Just pointing out the contradiction.

Quote:

How would you translate the name of this hip hop song, Sentir La Vida ? Would it be "To Feel Alive" ?



I try not to play audio or video on my computer; it tends to crash lately. Beyond that, I try to stay as far away from hip hop as is possible. Thanks for the warning :)

The title tranlsates as "Feeling life," or "Feeling the life."
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pacomartin
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June 8th, 2011 at 5:35:20 PM permalink
Quote: Nareed

It's simple, really. Any phrase starting with "tengo" and following with a feeling like hunger, cold, thirst, envy, etc, translates as "I'm cold, hungry, thirsty, wahtever." If tengo is followed by anything else, then it means "I have..."



Yes it is simple to go from Spanish to English. It is the other direction that can be difficult, because one word goes to multiple words.
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June 8th, 2011 at 5:40:16 PM permalink
Quote: pacomartin

Yes it is simple to go from Spanish to English. It is the other direction that can be difficult, because one word goes to multiple words.



The same thing happens in English. Otherwise there would be no puns or other kinds of wordplay.
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pacomartin
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June 8th, 2011 at 6:00:41 PM permalink
Quote: Nareed

The same thing happens in English. Otherwise there would be no puns or other kinds of wordplay.



Generally, I find that Spanish is more specific than English. From what I understand that would be a true statement of any romance language. Spanish had fewer influences. A little Iberian, a little French, a little more arabic. English was formed from many languages. Norse, Anglo Saxon, Latin, Greek, and it borrows words freely from French, Italian, and Sanskrit as well as native American as well as other languages.

We are both in agreement that tengo frío is not an idiomatic expression. However, it is often taught that way.

Quote: Study Spanish


From Idiomatic Expressions with "tener"
Spanish also has many idiomatic expressions. Although their literal translations sound odd to English speakers, they sound perfectly natural to native speakers.
...
Many other expressions using tener express physical sensations:
tener frío to be cold
tener calor to be hot
tener hambre to be hungry

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June 9th, 2011 at 8:25:35 AM permalink
Fecha: 9 de Junio, 2011
Fecha del día: Nevada


For the next four days we'll look at the four states with Spanish names. What better state to start with than Nevada (adj.), which means snowfall, snowstorm, snow-covered, or snowy. Just about any adjective associated with snow. Related words are:

Nevar (verb) = To snow
Nieve (noun) = Snow

For ejemplo time, let's look at some lyrics to my second favorite Christmas song, Winter Wonderland. The translation is from the video' rel='nofollow' target='_blank'>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-v1BpnNFkac]video by Selena Gomez..

La nieve del camino esta brillando. = In the lane snow is glistening.

En la pradera podemos hacare un muñeco de nieve = In the meadow we can build a snowman.

I'm not a fan of Selena's version of the song, as she removed eight lines, and repeated eight previous ones instead. One of the missing lines is this one:

Cuando nieva, ¿no es emocionante? = When it snows, ain't it thrilling?

I also would have used vega for meadow, but call me biased. As mentioned yesterday, Vegas is Spanish for meadows, but paredas seems to be the preferred synonym.

For more Winter Wonterland in June, enjoy my favorite cover by Darlene Love.
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June 9th, 2011 at 12:35:17 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Nieve (noun) = Snow


While it does seem as if every Latin word was absorbed into the English language, the Wizard has found two that became English words which didn't stick.

neve is a "field of granular snow" in English, but it either archaic or so rare that I have never heard it.

In an earlier post we had the English word acedia which came from the Latin word acedia which formed the Spanish word pereza . In English "lazy" has won out.

These two trivia questions should be way too easy for Nareed. Let someone else try them.

TRIVIA #1: The Wizard mentions "pradera" for meadow, which gave rise to the name of what famous art museum in Madrid? No googling.
TRIVIA #2: The synonym "vega" for meadow is Iberian in origin (or pre the Roman conquest of Spain). The word Ojalá is a Spanish word Arabic in origin, and originally came from By Allah!. What is the most famous Spanish word that is Arabic in origin that you would hear in a bullfight?
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June 9th, 2011 at 1:07:49 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

I also would have used vega for meadow, but call me biased. As mentioned yesterday, Vegas is Spanish for meadows, but paredas seems to be the preferred synonym.



You enarly made it without an error, or without my noticing it.

pRADERAs

Sorry. Now go stand in the corner :P

I think I've mentioned no one uses the word vega in Spanish.

It is a surname. There's Paz Vega, and I think Zorro's name was Diego de la Vega. Other than that, there's the star Vega and nothing more.
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June 9th, 2011 at 1:13:46 PM permalink
Quote: pacomartin

These two trivia questions should be way too easy for Nareed. Let someone else try them.



Easy. You chose two subjects I know little about.
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June 9th, 2011 at 1:48:53 PM permalink
Quote: Nareed

I think I've mentioned no one uses the word vega in Spanish.



Yes, but at least it was in your dictionary. That should make it fair game. Anyway, in case I was too obsequious, I was joking, wanting to bring back the word vegas for meadows. As one who has to live in Las Vegas, I think I can be forgiven for that. So I don't think I should have to stand in the corner for that one, although I owe you plenty of time for other faltas in el pasado. I respectfully ask for a reconsideration.

Quote: pacomartin

TRIVIA #1: The Wizard mentions "pradera" for meadow, which gave rise to the name of what famous art museum in Madrid? No googling.
TRIVIA #2: What is the most famous Spanish word that is Arabic in origin that you would hear in a bullfight?



#1 If forced to guess I'll say Prada. The name of the purses have to come from somewhere.
#2 ¡Ole!
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June 9th, 2011 at 1:54:35 PM permalink
Quote: Nareed

There's Paz Vega. Other than that, there's the star Vega and nothing more.


I guess that Vega is like the English word "prithee" which has not been published in a new story since the late 19th century.

I like Paz Vega


But the movie Spanglish had some serious credibility problems.
(1) That a maid would look like Paz Vega
(2) If there was a maid that looked like Paz Vega, that any wife would hire her
(3) That she could have lived in the USA long enough to raise a teenage daughter and not know simple English phrases like "hello" and "goodbye"
(4) That the producers couldn't find a single Mexican actress to play an iconic Mexican role. They had to hire a Spanish actress.
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June 9th, 2011 at 2:03:59 PM permalink
Quote: pacomartin

(2) If there was a maid that looked like Paz Vega, that any wife would hire her.



Agreed. Even if she is ugly that is no guarantee against her fooling around with the man of the house, as evidenced by Arnold. My requirement for housekeepers is they have to look good in a French maid's outfit.


Source: www.yandy.com.
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June 9th, 2011 at 2:08:46 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

#1 If forced to guess I'll say Prada. The name of the purses have to come from somewhere.
#2 ¡Ole!



Prada - the Italian high fashion house was named after the founder Mario Prada. The museum is "The Prado".



The words that begin with al, in particular are all Arabic in origin.
alacrán (m.) scorpion
alcohol (m.) alcohol
albaricoque (m.) apricot
alfiler (m.) pin
algodón (m.) cotton
almacén (m.) store, warehouse, grocery
almanaque (m.) almanac
almíbar (m.) syrup
alquiler (m.) rent
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June 9th, 2011 at 2:12:19 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

My requirement for housekeepers is they have to look good in a French maid's outfit.



What is relevant is what is your wife's requirement.
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June 9th, 2011 at 2:30:04 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

#1 If forced to guess I'll say Prada. The name of the purses have to come from somewhere.



Indeed. it comes from Italy.
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June 10th, 2011 at 8:17:43 AM permalink
Quote: pacomartin

(1) That a maid would look like Paz Vega



It's a movie. The maid will look like the box office expectations demand.

Quote:

(2) If there was a maid that looked like Paz Vega, that any wife would hire her



Again. it's a movie. the wife will do in the plot what the box office expectations demand.

Quote:

(3) That she could have lived in the USA long enough to raise a teenage daughter and not know simple English phrases like "hello" and "goodbye"



Did I mention it's a movie?

Quote:

(4) That the producers couldn't find a single Mexican actress to play an iconic Mexican role. They had to hire a Spanish actress.



Recently on CSI NY they had a Spaniard forensic investigator allegedly from Barcelona. I don't know who the actor was, but his accent was more nearly Central/northern South American than anything else. It dind't even come close to a Spaniard accent by at least, oh, 10,000 kilometers. Likewise the Madrilian girlfriend of the victim.

A Hollywood movie will diferentiate between a Britton, an English man, an Irish man, a Scotsman, a Canadian, an Australian, a Hindu, and an American. But when it comes to non-English speaking foreigners, all black cats are alike in the dark.

Lest you think such attitudes is particular to America, consider former Peruvian president Alberto Fujimori. He's of Japanese descent, but he was widely known in Peru as "El Chino," meaning "the chinese man." I can cite many other examples, particularly involving Asians and blacks, but I don't think that's necessary.

So, it's a movie, right?

BTW Antonio Banderas did a good job ditching the Spaniard accent in the Zorro movies. But the top prize for adopting a different accent goes to Hugh Laurie as House.
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June 10th, 2011 at 8:52:21 AM permalink
Fecha: 10 de Junio, 2011
Palabra del día: Colorado


Today we continue our look at states with Spanish names. The state for today is Colorado = red/reddish. I suspect that the etymology is some kind of juxtaposition of color (color) and rojo (red). Paco is the undisputed expert on word origins around here, so I'll leave it to him to explain that. Never once have I heard of anyone use the word Colorado to mean red. Then again, it isn't like I listen to people speaking Spanish all day.

I'll leave it up to Nareed to address whether colorado has joined the vegas (meadows) club of words that may be in the dictionary, but nobody actually says any longer, at least in the context of its original meaning.

I do have to wonder where this red part of Colorado is. East of the Rockies it is mostly amarillo
(yellow), from the endless wheat fields. The Rockies and points west are of course muy verde (very green). Then again, only a small portion of Nevada ever gets much snow, and yet the name of the state means snow covered. Go figure.

Ejemplo time.



Beyonce se ve preciosa en colorado = Beyonce looks gorgeous in red. Corrected, thx Nareed
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Nareed
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June 10th, 2011 at 9:02:51 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

I'll leave it up to Nareed to address whether colorado has joined the vegas (meadows) club of words that may be in the dictionary, but nobody actually says any longer, at least in the context of its original meaning.



Maybe. I can't offhand recall hearing it much, and I certainly never use it.

BTW, until 15-20 years ago I thought "colorado" meant something like "colorful." That ought to give you a clue.

More commonly the color red in Spanish is rojo.

Quote:

Beyonce ve caliente en colorado = Beyonce looks hot in red.



Assuming colorado means red, you said Beyonce sees hot in red (you're an endless fountain of morning amusement, BTW <w>)

Propper translation is "Beyonce SE ve caliente en colorado."

Next we can argue about the term "caliente," it isn't used much in the way you mean it. But I'd suggest you ask a man about it.
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June 10th, 2011 at 9:26:50 AM permalink
Quote: Nareed

Quote: wizard

Beyonce ve caliente en colorado = Beyonce looks hot in red.



Assuming colorado means red, you said Beyonce sees hot in red

Propper translation is "Beyonce SE ve caliente en colorado."

Next we can argue about the term "caliente," it isn't used much in the way you mean it. But I'd suggest you ask a man about it.



Thanks, as always.

I'm having a difficult time wrapping my head around reflexive verbs, but hope to figure it out eventually.

Of course we say attractive women look "hot" here all the time, but that expression may not carry over to other languages. So I changed it to precioso, in my search of an equivalent word to "gorgeous."
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Nareed
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June 10th, 2011 at 9:34:46 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Of course we say attractive women look "hot" here all the time, but that expression may not carry over to other languages. So I changed it to precioso, in my search of an equivalent word to "gorgeous."



Current american English has become quite equisexual in some ways. A guy can be called hot, too, for example.

I've heard the men around the office sometimes reffer to an attractive woman as "está buenísima," which literally translates as "she's very good," really. But that is an idiomatic expression. It does mean "she's hot." In English in this context hot is used idiomatically, too, so maybe that's what you want.

If this is the case, then "Beyonce se ve buenísima en rojo."
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June 10th, 2011 at 9:41:26 AM permalink
Quote: Nareed

If this is the case, then "Beyonce se ve buenísima en rojo."



Somehow I recall a commercial as a kid where an Italian chef, probably Chef Boyardee, slaved over his stove, only to arrive at perfection, when he kissed his fingers and said "buenisimo!" (sp?). So I think any American my age or older may associate buenísima with food only.

I also understand that rojo would be normal word for red in this context, but I'm trying to put colorado in the ejemplo somehow, and have it refer to the color, not the state. Same issue when you rebuked me for using the word vega for meadow.
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June 10th, 2011 at 10:28:22 AM permalink
Quote:

I also understand that rojo would be normal word for red in this context, but I'm trying to put colorado in the ejemplo somehow, and have it refer to the color, not the state. Same issue when you rebuked me for using the word vega for meadow.



Yeah, I've just recalled one use. An old commedy show called "El Chapulín Colorado." I suppose it would mean the red cricket. It's a kind of superhero parody, and my brother insists Bumblee Man in the Simpsons is based on him. Please don't ask more questions about it.

Remember, too, that these states were named by Spaniards. They use the language differently, and they tended to hispanize terms and names to what they were comfortable pronouncing. Most important don't forget these names were given hundreds of years ago, so archaisms are to be expected.
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