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pacomartin
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June 18th, 2011 at 7:34:03 PM permalink
Phrase of interestAño bisiesto



The title of two recent movies. The Anglo movie a light romantic comedy. The Mexican movie a dark disturbing sexually explicit film set in Mexico city. The Mexican movie has overwhelming critical praise. The Anglo movie got terrible critical reviews, but belongs to a class of movies that are almost always profitable.

Mexico has for the better part of a decade making movies that are a critically acclaimed, but would all certainly be rated NC-17 in America if they get a rating at all. Most people see them on DVD since there are few theaters that show them.

Anyway, Año bisiesto will be released on 24 June in USA for a short theater run, and probably a rapid turnaround to DVD.

Movie trailer with naked people

Nareed, do the following sentences say basically the same thing
1) Ana planeaba declararse a su novio.
2) Ana tenía la intención de proponerle matrimonio a su novio
3) Anna previsto proponer a su novio
Nareed
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June 19th, 2011 at 9:40:23 AM permalink
Fecha: 19 de Junio, 2011
Frase del día: el internet está jodido


The Wizard asked me to take over for a while.

The phrase for today means "The internet is screwed," which simply means I've no itnernet access. It may get restored tomorrow, then again it may not. For now I dropped by the office to post this. Lucky for all of you it's not football season yet ;)
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Nareed
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June 21st, 2011 at 3:34:54 PM permalink
Fecha: 21 de Junio, 2011
Palabra del día: Comida


As it should be evident, I got my internet connection back.

Anyway, the word for today means "food." But it's also the common term used for the mid-day meal, at least in Mexico. In contrast to what Americans, Canadians and I suspect others are used to, this is the big meal of the day, consisting of several courses and lasting a long time.

Examples:

¿Que hay de comer? = What's for lunch?

¿Que hay de comer? Comida = What's for lunch? Food. (this is a stupid joke repeated way too often)

Tengo comida en casa de mis papás este Sábado = I'm having lunch at my parents' house this Saturday.
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pacomartin
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June 22nd, 2011 at 12:39:41 PM permalink
Quote: Nareed

Fecha: 21 de Junio, 2011 Palabra del día: Comida



In Oaxaca they had a meal called comida corrida which I believe is a term common to all parts of Mexico. Literally it means a "meal that ran" but is more like a an "early bird special" in America. However, and "early bird" meal in America typically runs from 4PM to 6PM (give or take), a "comida corrda" typically was served starting at 1PM to 2PM until about 5PM.

The meal usually consisted of a broth soup, a pasta of some sort, a small serving of meat (often a drumstick), a desert and drink like horchata or some lemonade. Quality and price varied a lot. One of the nicer restaurants in Oaxaca City served a comida corrida for about US$6 that was excellent. There was a burger king in town which charged roughly the same price for a meal, which made me wonder why anyone would possibly eat fast food.

I imagine it is not as pronounced in Mexico City, but the people in a small Mexican city have a near violent reaction to the idea of fast food restaurants. McDonald's tried to build a restaurant in the Zocolo and was met by a massive protest. The Burger King has had less resistance in Mexico and opened up quietly with no advance announcements, and under a tarp so that there would be no protests. Since it wasn't directly on the zocolo, it didn't cause as much of a stir. Burger King actually has 6 locations throughout the state now.

Burger King in Oaxaca City



McDonalds went into France in 1979 and now has 1161 locations. They entered Mexico in 1985 and now have 387 locations. Mexico is approaching double the population of France. While the French publicly do not like McDonald's it is affordable meal in a country where it is difficult to eat inexpensively.
Nareed
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June 22nd, 2011 at 1:06:13 PM permalink
Quote: pacomartin

In Oaxaca they had a meal called comida corrida which I believe is a term common to all parts of Mexico. Literally it means a "meal that ran" but is more like a an "early bird special" in America. However, and "early bird" meal in America typically runs from 4PM to 6PM (give or take), a "comida corrda" typically was served starting at 1PM to 2PM until about 5PM.



The term doesn't exist in English, though a French equivalent is sometimes used: prix fixe.

1 PM and 2 PM are popular times for having the mid-day meal. 3 pm is considered late, and 4 pm very late.

Quote:

The meal usually consisted of a broth soup, a pasta of some sort, a small serving of meat (often a drumstick), a desert and drink like horchata or some lemonade.



Some places are like that. Most offer a choice between two kinds of soup, pasta or rice, two entrees, dessert and water. Also most places offer beer and soda, but that's extra.

About the water, it's a common practice in Mexico to make fruit-flavored water. I've never developed a taste for it, thank god. The ingredients are water, fresh fruit and enough sugar to feed every ant in the world for a year, it seems. Oh, "fruit" is a generic term. horchata is made with water, rice (yes, rice),a little milk and lots of sugar. "Agua de Jamaica" is made from dried flower blossoms (I'm serious).

Fancier places, like VIPS, with a full menu, will have a daily special along the same lines, from items not found in the menu. Of course such places are more expensive.

Quote:

Quality and price varied a lot. One of the nicer restaurants in Oaxaca City served a comida corrida for about US$6 that was excellent.



That's expensive for that kind of meal. The places near the office are about $3.30

Quote:

There was a burger king in town which charged roughly the same price for a meal, which made me wonder why anyone would possibly eat fast food.



The cheap prix fixe places also tend to be very unhealthy. Lots of fried foods, for one thing. The selection is also very limited. I'd rather have a grilled chicken sandwich without mayo at BK than a slice of veal dipped in egg and bread batter and soaked in boiling oil <yuck!>

Quote:

I imagine it is not as pronounced in Mexico City, but the people in a small Mexican city have a near violent reaction to the idea of fast food restaurants.



Nah. they have an irrational aversion to all things American.
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teddys
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June 22nd, 2011 at 1:59:28 PM permalink
Quote: pacomartin

In Oaxaca they had a meal called comida corrida which I believe is a term common to all parts of Mexico. Literally it means a "meal that ran" but is more like a an "early bird special" in America. However, and "early bird" meal in America typically runs from 4PM to 6PM (give or take), a "comida corrda" typically was served starting at 1PM to 2PM until about 5PM.

The meal usually consisted of a broth soup, a pasta of some sort, a small serving of meat (often a drumstick), a desert and drink like horchata or some lemonade. Quality and price varied a lot. One of the nicer restaurants in Oaxaca City served a comida corrida for about US$6 that was excellent. There was a burger king in town which charged roughly the same price for a meal, which made me wonder why anyone would possibly eat fast food.

They had these in Peru. Price was usually $2.18 U.S. They usually included, like you said, three courses (app, entree, soup, drink), and were uniformly excellent. They were creative with the menus and I don't think we ever had the same dish. Even the drinks were different (iced teas, coffees, milk drinks, etc.). My friend and I would eat at least two every afternoon. They usually ended at 3 or 4 though.
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pacomartin
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June 22nd, 2011 at 2:43:21 PM permalink
Quote: Nareed

That's expensive for that kind of meal. The places near the office are about $3.30



That was the most expensive price that I paid for a comida corrida, but it was very cheap for Los Danzantes. They have a nice location in Mexico City as well.
pacomartin
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June 22nd, 2011 at 2:43:21 PM permalink
The places weren't open very late in Oaxaca. Usually after 9 PM there was excellent street food, but not much else.

Tlayudas look like this photo in a restaurant.


"Tlayudas falda" look like this photo on the street.
Nareed
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June 23rd, 2011 at 12:42:01 PM permalink
Fecha: 23 de Junio, 2011
Palabras del día: Papá, Mamá, Papás


I forgot about the word of the day yesterday, sorry. To make up for it, I'm presenting a trio of related words today.

1) Papá = Dad, the short form of father. if you miss the accent on the last syllable, though, and write it "papa" you're saying either "Pope" or "Potato;" here to distinguish the former from the tuber, the former is capitalized when written.

2) Mamá = Mom, the short form of mother. Again, miss the accent and you're saying "Tit," or, used as a verb, "suckles." I'll get one over Paco and say this latter usage of the word is where the term "mammal" comes from.

3) Papás = Parents. well, it can also be the plural of "dad," but it's most often used in place of a term saying "the two people I'm directly descended from." There is no real equivalent Spanish word for "parents," nor, while we're on the subject, any equivalent to "child."

I judge examples are not necessary.
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Wizard
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June 24th, 2011 at 11:15:36 AM permalink
I'm back! Let's skip the SWOD for today because I've got a ton of things to catch up on.

Paco, thanks for the movie recommendation. I just reserved it on Netflix. Recently I watch Amores Perros and Amar Te Duelle. Just a coincidence, I think, that amar, and its variants, comes up in both. Then again, most movies from Mexico I tend to see are a love story.

Quote: Nareed

Mamá = Mom, the short form of mother. Again, miss the accent and you're saying "Tit," or, used as a verb, "suckles."



I'll add that to my collection. I already knew of pechos, tetas, and lolas. Meanwhile, I still find it strange that finger and toe have to share the same word. My daughter says that is also true in French.
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Nareed
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June 24th, 2011 at 11:24:06 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

I'll add that to my collection. I already knew of pechos, tetas, and lolas.



"mama" is more of a formal term. It can be sued as "breast," too, but there's already a word, "pecho," for breast. usually you encounter it in terms like "cancer de mama," which means "breast cancer."
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pacomartin
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June 24th, 2011 at 12:12:41 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Meanwhile, I still find it strange that finger and toe have to share the same word. My daughter says that is also true in French.


It was true in Latin that digitus meant "finger or toe" so it is true in all of it's offshoot languages.

The word toe probably originally meaning "fingers" as well.
reference - English etymology dictionary
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June 25th, 2011 at 8:26:53 PM permalink
I'd like to suggest we let the SWOD have a summer vacation. I've got two more trips planned this summer, and have a lot of work to squeeze in between them.

I really appreciate all the help Nareed and Paco have given me. However, let's all take a break from the SWOD until sometime in late August. Feel free to keep writing here about Spanish, but there will not be a SWOD, at least posted by me, for a while.

Gracías.
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pacomartin
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June 25th, 2011 at 11:11:50 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

I've got two more trips planned this summer, and have a lot of work to squeeze in between them.



Hopefully you will get to speak Spanish on your trips
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June 26th, 2011 at 2:32:26 AM permalink
Quote: pacomartin

Hopefully you will get to speak Spanish on your trips.



Unfortunately, not. Both are within the US and Canada, to places that speak less Spanish than here. I'm worried that the backsliding has already started. I've tried to improve my Spanish at several other times in my life but always gave up on it -- right about at this point.

I still hope to go to Argentina later in the year.
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Nareed
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June 26th, 2011 at 6:17:52 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

I'm worried that the backsliding has already started. I've tried to improve my Spanish at several other times in my life but always gave up on it -- right about that this point.



Which brings up the question: why do you want to improve your Spanish? I'd take "because I want to" as a valid reason.

My parents were very insistent that I learn English, because that was supposed to give me some kind of advantage in business. Well, it hasn't, but I'm glad I gained fluency just the same. For one thing I wouldn't have been able to develop a real taste for science fiction had I confined myself to reading Spanish translations. That alone is priceless.
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Doc
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June 26th, 2011 at 8:17:35 AM permalink
Quote: pacomartin

Hopefully you will get to speak Spanish on your trips


Well, Frank, you sent me on multiple trips to IMDB this time! I recognized both Crosby and Cantinflas in the photo, but I didn't remember them being in a film together. I went through the IMDB lists of films in which each of them appeared as actors (two rather long lists), but I didn't find any matches. Then I looked at the title of the photo and saw it was from "Pepe" (I don't remember whether I ever saw the whole film). It took more IMDB digging to figure out why Crosby's "filmography" doesn't list him as an actor in Pepe -- he appeared as "himself".

Nice touch.
pacomartin
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June 26th, 2011 at 8:35:13 AM permalink
Quote: Doc


Then I looked at the title of the photo and saw it was from "Pepe" (I don't remember whether I ever saw the whole film). It took more IMDB digging to figure out why Crosby's "filmography" doesn't list him as an actor in Pepe -- he appeared as "himself".



Cantinflas was sometimes known as the Mexican Charlie Chaplin. In the 1950's, Mexico was the Hollywood of Latin America. He was cast in Around the World in 80 Days, but not as a Mexican. I believe he was supposed to be Egyptian. The only other English movie that he did was Pepe, with 35 cameos.

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June 26th, 2011 at 9:14:58 AM permalink
Quote: Nareed

Which brings up the question: why do you want to improve your Spanish? I'd take "because I want to" as a valid reason.



"Just because I want to" pretty much is the reason. I'm not one to just sit still. At any given time I've always got some self-improvement projects going, both mentally and physically. However, why Spanish in particular? Every time I go to a Spanish speaking country I really wish I could speak the language. I just have a curiosity about things and it bothers me that I can't understand what people say in Spanish. The kind of curiosity Tarzan had in the first Tarzan book about English. I have also thought about doing a gambling site in Spanish.
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Nareed
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June 26th, 2011 at 10:02:08 AM permalink
Quote: pacomartin

Cantinflas was sometimes known as the Mexican Charlie Chaplin. In the 1950's, Mexico was the Hollywood of Latin America.



He's my favorite Mexican actor. Not so much for his comedy, which is hilarious but quite repetitive, but rather for his very short animated series called, if memory serves, "El Show de Cantinflas." These were cartoons about five minutes long dealing with history, science or inventors. That helped me get interested in science, technology and history (along with my junior high history teacher).


BTW you missed some code in your post:

Quote:

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odiousgambit
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June 26th, 2011 at 11:51:05 AM permalink
regarding Mexican comedians, there is more emphasis on "making silly faces" or whatever you would call that... I think this may be true of French comedy too. I have gotten that impression in these cases anyway.
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June 26th, 2011 at 12:04:08 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

"Just because I want to" pretty much is the reason. I'm not one to just sit still. At any given time I've always got some self-improvement projects going, both mentally and physically. However, why Spanish in particular? Every time I go to a Spanish speaking country I really wish I could speak the language.



You know, "just because" gets thoroughly contradicted by concrete, practical, sensible reasons ;) I've thought about learning Italian because I want to take a long trip to Italy someday. I know you've been to Spanish speaking countries more than once in your life already.

So there :P


Quote:

I just have a curiosity about things and it bothers me that I can't understand what people say in Spanish.



Eavesdropping is rude in all languages.

Of course if you think people are talking about you in your presence assuming you wont' understand, that's a legitimate grievance. We used to do that to Hebrew teachers imported from Israel. They learned very fast.

Quote:

I have also thought about doing a gambling site in Spanish.



I'd be happy to help you with that, for a reasonable fee. (notice the lack of a smiley).
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Nareed
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June 26th, 2011 at 12:13:38 PM permalink
Quote: odiousgambit

regarding Mexican comedians, there is more emphasis on "making silly faces" or whatever you would call that... I think this may be true of French comedy too. I have gotten that impression in these cases anyway.



There's some of that, but it's more or less recent.

Cantinflas excelled with verbal humor. His trademark was to speak whole paragraphs with very little content, full of one-liners, absurdities, word play and some innuendo. That style led to a new word "cantinflear," which means to speak a lot without saying much or anything.

Other comics of his era tended to silly words, physical comedy and silly faces. The most notable was Manuel "el loco" Valdez.
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Doc
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June 26th, 2011 at 12:50:11 PM permalink
Pedro Gonzalez was quite amusing, but he was not Mexican -- a Latino Texan, I think. I remember first seeing him on Groucho Marx's TV show, where he was introduced just as if he were any other ordinary contestant. Yes, I think Groucho used a number of shills on that show.
pacomartin
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June 26th, 2011 at 1:22:02 PM permalink
Quote: Doc

Yes, I think Groucho used a number of shills on that show.



Pedro Gonzalez Gonzalez on you bet your life

His bio says that was his first appearance on TV or a movie, but he had spent his whole life performing on the stage. He was age 27 on this show and is clearly stage acting. He was such a hit on the show that he made a career performing in movies and television. He was born in Texas.

I was a fan of the TV series, The Event which starred his grandson.
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July 2nd, 2011 at 3:33:08 PM permalink
What is with the two dots above the u in the word vergüenza (shame)? How common is this letter in Spanish? How is it pronounced? If you're playing the Spanish edition of Scrabble, do they have a ü? If not, can you use a regular u, or the ú, to make the word vergüenza?
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Nareed
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July 2nd, 2011 at 3:45:19 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

What is with the two dots above the u in the word vergüenza (shame)?



It's called "diéresis." It changes how the g is pronounced with a ui or ue phoneme. ask your tutor, she should know all the technical terms and be able to provide examples.

Quote:

How common is this letter in Spanish?



Not very.

Quote:

How is it pronounced?



See above. I'm no good at conveying pronunciation in print.

Quote:

If you're playing the Spanish edition of Scrabble, do they have a ü? If not, can you use a regular u, or the ú, to make the word vergüenza?



Good question. I've no clue.
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pacomartin
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July 2nd, 2011 at 3:47:25 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

What is with the two dots above the u in the word vergüenza (shame)? How common is this letter in Spanish? How is it pronounced? If you're playing the Spanish edition of Scrabble, do they have a ü? If not, can you use a regular u, or the ú, to make the word vergüenza?



It's fairly rare, and only used with güi or güe.

Without la diéresis or la crema , the u would be silent, serving only to indicate that the g is pronounced as a hard g rather than similar to the j.

Examples are
vergüenza, shame;
cigüeña, stork or crank;
pingüino, penguin; and
agüero, prediction.
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July 2nd, 2011 at 4:01:30 PM permalink
Quote: pacomartin

cigüeña, stork or crank;



Not quite. Crank, as in a piece of a car's transmission, is called "cigüeñal."
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pacomartin
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July 2nd, 2011 at 7:01:30 PM permalink
Quote: Nareed

Not quite. Crank, as in a piece of a car's transmission, is called "cigüeñal."



I am a little confused by the first definition

cigüeña: feminine
Codo que tienen los tornos y otros instrumentos y máquinas en la prolongación del eje, por cuyo medio se les da con la mano movimiento rotatorio.

cigüeñal: masc
Eje con codos que transforma un movimiento rectilíneo en circular.
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July 2nd, 2011 at 7:23:32 PM permalink
Thanks for the quick and detailed replies. What is the difference between vergüenza and lastima?
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July 2nd, 2011 at 7:51:34 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Thanks for the quick and detailed replies. What is the difference between vergüenza and lastima?



Vergüenza = shame

Lástima = pity

Lastima = hurts (third person singular). Sometimes you have to mind the accents...
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August 28th, 2011 at 10:11:25 AM permalink
I think it is time to despertar (wake up) the Spanish Word of the Day thread from its vacación verano (summer vacation). One of my trips this summer was my annual week in Santa Barbara. So, for lack of a better idea, let's look at some street names of the city I love so much.

An interesting thing about Santa Barbara is that the downtown streets don't run north to south, and east to west, as in most cities. Rather they run NE to SW, and NW to SE. Let's start at the beach and move our way in the NE direction, looking at the streets parallel to State Street. We'll skip over English names, names of people, and Spanish words that are too easy.

We'll skip castillo, as being a fairly obvious cognate for castle. The next one is De La Vina. Proper Spanish would use an ñ, but that usually gets changed incorrectly to an n by us gringos. So I would translate De La Viña to "from the vineyard." A related word is one many people know, vino = wine.

Para Ejemplo, Me gusta comprar vino directamente de la viña = I like to buy wine directly from the vineyard.
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Nareed
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August 28th, 2011 at 10:44:39 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

I think it is time to despertar (wake up) the Spanish Word of the Day thread from its vacación verano (summer vacation).



That would be "vacación DE verano."


Quote:

Para Ejemplo, Me gusta comprar vino directamente de la viña = I like to buy wine directly from the vineyard.



Very good. As an aside, another word is "viñedo."

For related words, Spanish parts company with English when it comes to "vintage," the spanish word is "cosecha" meaning also "harvest." This refers to the year the grapes were harvested and the wine made.
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August 28th, 2011 at 10:55:16 AM permalink
Quote: Nareed

That would be "vacación DE verano."



Yes. I've made that mistake many times. When using a noun as an adjective you put the de in front of it.

Thanks for the additional comments -- good stuff!
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August 28th, 2011 at 12:19:40 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Yes. I've made that mistake many times. When using a noun as an adjective you put the de in front of it.



Some friends and I once spent a week trying to determine what the word "dashboard" meant in Spanish. Finally I used a dictionary :) But the English word I once had massive trouble with was the past tense of the verb "to do." Asking something simple like "¿que hiciste ayer?" was a bit of an adventure. I almost always forgot and would ask "What did you yesterday?" It just takes time and practice.
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August 29th, 2011 at 5:43:32 AM permalink
Going through the map of Santa Barbara I come across some streets that appear to have Spanish names, but I can't find a translation for them.

First there is Chapala Street, a major downtown street you hear of all the time there. I have no idea what it means.

Next there is Salsipuedes Street. I know that puedes means roughly "you can." I'm not sure what the "salsi" part means. Maybe it means "Can you do the Salsa?"

Then we come to Quarantina Street. My guess was this was a cognate for quarantine. Either somebody has really bad spelling, or it just means something else. The correct word for quarantine in Spanish is cuarentena. My guess is somebody doesn't know how to spell.

Let's skip over Nopal. That is the name of a cactus, that I believe is the same in both English and Spanish.

I think we can finally learn something when we get to Milpas Street. A milpa is the Spanish word for a corn field. I've never once seen anyone grow corn anywhere close to Santa Barbara, but I imagine way back when they may have found corn a more practical crop than today's grapes and avocados.

Perhaps what I should do is buy a copy of Street Names of Santa Barbara before going further with the Santa Barbara theme.

Ejemplo time.

El extraterrestre se puso un círculo de cosecha en mi milpa. = The alien put a crop circle in my corn field.
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Alan
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August 29th, 2011 at 6:48:12 AM permalink
Salsipuedes=get out if you can

That sounds scary! Interesting name for a street.
Nareed
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August 29th, 2011 at 7:07:08 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

First there is Chapala Street, a major downtown street you hear of all the time there. I have no idea what it means.



I don't either. But it is the name of a lake in, I think, Jalisco state. El Lago de Chapala.

Quote:

El extraterrestre se puso un círculo de cosecha en mi milpa. = The alien put a crop circle in my corn field.



Now what you said in Spanish was "The extraterrestrial put on a harvest circle in my corn field."

Try "El extraterrestre puso un círculo en mi milpa."

I really don't know how "crop circle" translates to Spanish, but "cosecha" means harvest.

"Extraterrestre " means "extraterrestrial." But "alien" is a reasonable synonym. There's no word for "alien" in Spanish to denote an intelligent creature from another planet. In fact, when the first of the "Alien" movies came out, the title in Spanish was given as "Alien: El Octavo Pasajero," or "Alien: The Eighth Passenger." As I recall there were seven people in the crew of the doomed ship Nostromo.
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Wizard
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August 29th, 2011 at 7:59:11 AM permalink
Quote: Nareed

I really don't know how "crop circle" translates to Spanish, but "cosecha" means harvest.



I was eager to use cosecha, since you introduced it yesterday. I didn't want to just say círculo, because the reader wouldn't have a concept about what kind of circle. Maybe he just drew a six-inch diameter one in the dirt. When there is discussion about "crop circles" in Mexico, what term do they use?


Source: http://astrojan.hostei.com/images/cropc/36a.jpg

Quote: Nareed

"Extraterrestre " means "extraterrestrial." But "alien" is a reasonable synonym. There's no word for "alien" in Spanish to denote an intelligent creature from another planet. In fact, when the first of the "Alien" movies came out, the title in Spanish was given as "Alien: El Octavo Pasajero," or "Alien: The Eighth Passenger." As I recall there were seven people in the crew of the doomed ship Nostromo.



Is "alien" a commonly understood term now in Mexico? It is interesting to me when a new word is the same in multiple languages. I could be wrong, but I think at the time that movie came out the word "alien" pretty much just meant different/strange/not from around here. The movie itself cemented the meaning as an intelligent life form from another planet. Maybe the older folks can comment.


source: http://www.bundyology.com/hpg/zz507.jpg

When the movie Jaws came out, did they call it tiburon (shark) in Mexico, because mandíbulas (jaws) didn't sound as good?
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Nareed
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August 29th, 2011 at 8:16:12 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

When there is discussion about "crop circles" in Mexico, what term do they use?



I can't tell you, sorry. I didn't follow the "controversy" at all. I'm sure it was in the papers, but that was long ago and I probably wasn't paying attention.

Quote:

Is "alien" a commonly understood term now in Mexico?



Not really. For most people it means the monster of the Alien and Alien vs Predator movies.

Quote:

I could be wrong, but I think at the time that movie came out the word "alien" pretty much just meant different/strange/not from around here. The movie itself cemented the meaning as an intelligent life form from another planet. Maybe the older folks can comment.



I think so, too. And that's ironic because the monster isn't particualrly intelligent. I mean, it is very bright for a wild animal, but it is a wild animal. Very much like an orca, as a matter of fact.


Quote:

When the movie Jaws came out, did they call it tiburon (shark) in Mexico, because mandíbulas (jaws) didn't sound as good?



I suppose so.

You won't believe how many poeple figured Jaws was the English word for shark, too :)
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pacomartin
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August 29th, 2011 at 4:19:31 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

First there is Chapala Street, a major downtown street you hear of all the time there. I have no idea what it means.



Mexicans would all recognize Lago de Chapala as the largest freshwater lake in the country. It is just south of the Guadalajara airport, and is a major retirement destination for Northern American retirees.

Northern American is the politically correct term for Anglos from USA or Canada. It does not take away the term American from Latin Americans.

The word is probably a variation of chaparejos which is a combination of chaparral and aparejos . Chaparral refers to scrub land that you see in Baja or near deserts. Aparejos refers to the gear on sail boats. So the name is a romantic name for a lake where you can sail across the scrub land.

Despite the name the southern border of Lake Chapala is pretty dense forest and is a popular vacation spot.
pacomartin
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August 29th, 2011 at 4:32:39 PM permalink
An important word is "parilla" or grill. Very useful in Argentina as you will want to eat one of these as often as possible.

Wizard
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August 30th, 2011 at 11:49:14 AM permalink
Palabra del día: VENIR

Let's put the calles (streets) of Santa Barbara on the back burner until I get that book I mentioned yesterday.

One of the frustrating things about learning Spanish for the English speaker is they often use two words where English uses one. The appropriate word depends on the context, and the rules can get complicated. For example IR and ESTAR, PARA and POR. Today I'll look at an easier pair of similar words: IR and VENIR.

Briefly ir = go, and venir = come. However, there are many situations in English where either word could be used interchangably. Like I will go/come to the party. However, in Spanish you would ir in that situation, unless the person saying it is already at the location of the party.

As I understand it, the simplest rule to determine whether IR or VENIR is appropriate is whether the location of the speaker is the same as the place being discussed. Consider the following phone conversation:

Maria: Are you able to come to my party?
Jose: Yes, I am able to go.

If the party is at the place where Maria is calling from then VENIR would be approropiate. Since Jose is not at Maria's house at the time of the call, he would use IR. So, it should go like this:

Maria: ¿Puedes venir at mi fiesta?
Jose: Sí, puedo ir

If Maria were not at the location of the party when she made the call then she would use ir as well.

A question for the better Spanish speakers: Which word would Maria use if she were sending an invitation in the mail. Would it matter where she wrote the invitation, mailed it, or would she use IR no matter what, because by the time Jose read it, the invitation itself would no longer be at Maria's house.
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Alan
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August 30th, 2011 at 12:19:35 PM permalink
According to my counterpart here at work, who is a Mexican national, with a written invitation no matter where it's written, sent or received, you always use VENIR or VEN(which may be slang-ish for VENIR).

She doesn't hang out on your site, but I invite her over to my cube for this thread when it's updated with something new.
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August 31st, 2011 at 8:57:48 AM permalink
Palabra del día: PROPINA

Alan, my thanks to your compañera for her help with my question on Ir/Venir.

I think that was the first word, aside maybe from Argentine lumfardo (slang), that Nareed didn't comment on, not to mention Paco. Perhaps too academic and boring for fun discussion. Lo siento (I'm sorry).

Entonces (so), let's look at an easy and practical word every gringo should know. The word is propina=tip/gratuity. How much of a propina to leave is always a vexing topic when leaving your own country. In my stories about Panama, I tried to relay as much advice on propinas as I gathered during my week there.

Ejemplo time.

El mozo era lento, así que le di una propina pequeña. = The waiter was slow, thus I gave him a small tip.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
Nareed
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August 31st, 2011 at 9:31:29 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

I think that was the first word, aside maybe from Argentine lumfardo (slang), that Nareed didn't comment on, not to mention Paco. Perhaps too academic and boring for fun discussion. Lo siento (I'm sorry).



I missed it yesterday. But you worry me. Paco always comments on these things...

Anyway, you must realize learning a native langauge is different from learning a foreign language. Your native langauge is like air: you don't notice it most of the time. Therefore I've never much thought, much less analyzed, the way I use Spanish.

Ir means to go somewhere. Venir means to come somewhere. The problem lies in that conjugations are similar for both verbs. Take Ir:

yo voy
tu vas
ella va
nosotros vamos
ustedes van
ellas van

And venir:

yo voy
tu vienes
ella viene
nosotros venimos
ustedes vienen
ellas vienen

See the problem?

Quote:

El mozo era lento, así que le di una propina pequeña. = The waiter was slow, thus I gave him a small tip.



That's technically correct. In mexico, however, you'd say "mesero" rather than "mozo." The latter means boy or young man and it isn't used much.
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pacomartin
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August 31st, 2011 at 12:19:13 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

I think that was the first word, aside maybe from Argentine lumfardo (slang), that Nareed didn't comment on, not to mention Paco. Perhaps too academic and boring for fun discussion. Lo siento (I'm sorry).



I'm not dead, but I am having problems with my internet provider.

If you look on English as a Second Language sites you see that many people have trouble about when to use "come" and "go". At some point in our pre-history they were probably the same word.

In English there are only two verbs "to be" and "to go" that take their past tense versions from entirely different base words. Although the "regular" past tense of "to go" would be "goed", it was originally "eode". In the 15th century it was interchanged with "went" which was formerly the past tense of "wenden". "Wenden" is now archaic but used to mean "to direct one's way". "Wend" is still used in mostly poetic situations.

In Spanish keep in mind that some of the verb tenses of ser are the same as ir. The preterit (a past tense) of "to go" has the same meaning as the preterit tense of "to be" where "to be" has the meaning of "essence" instead of "status".

Apologies to native language speakers who don't ever think about tenses.

Propina from the Greek Propinein, which means "to drink to the health of someone else." This evolved from the ancient custom of buying a drink, toasting to someone's health, drinking half of the cup -- and then giving the other half to him (the person to whose health you are drinking) to drink. Clearly a custom developed before our understanding of communicable disease.

Tip meaning "give a gratuity to" is relatively modern use of an old word, only first seen 300 years ago. The Latin word "gratuitus" meant "free" or "freely given".
pacomartin
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August 31st, 2011 at 12:25:13 PM permalink
Quote: Alan

According to my counterpart here at work, who is a Mexican national, with a written invitation no matter where it's written, sent or received, you always use VENIR or VEN(which may be slang-ish for VENIR).

She doesn't hang out on your site, but I invite her over to my cube for this thread when it's updated with something new.



Ven is not slang, but is the imperative version of venir. In English we indicate imperative with tone of voice or in writing by using an exclamation point. In Spanish they change the spelling of the verb.

In English we often say "Come to the party!" which implies a polite command.
Alan
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August 31st, 2011 at 12:30:06 PM permalink
Paco,

Thanks for the explanation. I didn't get into details about that word(Ven) with her, she mentioned it and walked away. My comments in the () were obviously a wrong assumption.
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