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Wizard
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Wizard
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May 14th, 2011 at 10:08:41 PM permalink
Quote: Nareed

Because the second example literally means "Me the queen like." You can't shorten it that way. the correct sentence is "yo le gusto a la reina."



I admit I butchered that sentence, but I think this goes towards the argument that gusto can be a verb. However, I think my tutor may feel differently. I don't think I'll know her position until Thursday. Sorry for causing so much of a fuss.
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pacomartin
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May 15th, 2011 at 1:10:57 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

I admit I butchered that sentence, but I think this goes towards the argument that gusto can be a verb. However, I think my tutor may feel differently. I don't think I'll know her position until Thursday. Sorry for causing so much of a fuss.



Frankly, I was taught it as an absolute, that it is never conjugated in the first and second person. And never as a transitive verb.

When you asked the question I looked it up in REAL ACADEMIA ESPAÑOLA . As you probably know there is no official organization that monitors English, but all European languages have academies that dictate what is the proper use of the language. There is a Latin American branch of Real Academia.

The entry says:
El sujeto es la causa del placer o la atracción, y la persona que lo siente se expresa mediante un complemento indirecto.
«Vos me gustás mucho» (Rovner Pareja [Arg. 1976]); {Argentine Spanish is relatively unique in Latin America}
«Le gustaban la buena música y los buenos libros» (Palou Carne [Esp. 1975]).
Esta es la construcción normal en el habla corriente.
What it says is that the normal construction is to use it as an intransitive verb.

But REAL ACADEMIA also states that gustar has limited use as a transitive verb for courtesies.

Como transitivo significa ‘querer o desear’ y su empleo es escaso fuera de fórmulas de cortesía:
«¿Gusta usted una cerveza?» (Victoria Casta [Méx. 1995]);
«—¿Le molesto si escucho las noticias? —Haga como guste» (Plaza Cerrazón [Ur. 1980]).
Unfortunately the examples they give are in the 3rd person, but the first is a question, and the 2nd example is more like a catchphrase (Do a you please) and is in the subjunctive mood.

So I am stumped. I have heard that the REAL ACADEMIA ESPAÑOLA is very reluctant to acknowledge changes in the language until they become universal, but the phrase en el habla corriente is a strong one meaning loosely run of the mill speech.
Nareed
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May 15th, 2011 at 5:29:13 AM permalink
Quote: pacomartin

When you asked the question I looked it up in REAL ACADEMIA ESPAÑOLA . As you probably know there is no official organization that monitors English, but all European languages have academies that dictate what is the proper use of the language. There is a Latin American branch of Real Academia.



Sure, but:

1) Just because an organization considers itself the arbiter of a language doesn't mean it is. After all, how many people even pay attention to the real academia? Maybe teachers and scholars, but not ordinary people. And language ultimately gets shaped by the way the vast majority of people come to use it.

2) The Spaniards speak Spanish funny anyway.
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Wizard
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May 15th, 2011 at 6:36:26 AM permalink
My tutor has mentioned the REAL ACADEMIA ESPAÑOLA many times in response to my many silly ¿por que? questions she can't answer. I keep an imaginary list of all my questions to submit to them.

Thanks for all the help with gustar. I think we've beaten that word to death. I'll have to do an easy one for today.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
Wizard
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May 15th, 2011 at 7:00:02 AM permalink
Fecha: 15 de Mayo
Palabra del dia: ESPOSA


The word of the dia has two meanings, wife and handcuffs. A question for the forum is whether this is a casualidad (coincidence).

Let's look at some ejemplos.

Mi esposa tiene cabello castaño = My wife has brown hair.
Estes esposas son demasiado agarrado = These handcuffs are too tight (there are various words for "tight," I'm not sure if this is the proper one).
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
Nareed
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May 15th, 2011 at 8:55:41 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

The word of the dia has two meanings, wife and handcuffs.



Not quite.

Esposa means wife. Period. Nothing else.

Esposas can mean either wives or handcuffs.
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Wizard
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May 15th, 2011 at 9:11:16 AM permalink
Quote: Nareed

Esposa means wife. Period. Nothing else.



What would you call one half of a set of handcuffs in Spanish?
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Doc
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May 15th, 2011 at 9:29:01 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

What would you call one half of a set of handcuffs in Spanish?


Not an answer, but this brought two old questions to mind:
(1) What is the sound of one hand clapping?
(2) How do you handcuff a one-armed man?
Nareed
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May 15th, 2011 at 9:33:08 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

What would you call one half of a set of handcuffs in Spanish?



Esposas.

Sorry, that's just the way it is. If it makes you feel any better, the word análisis is also used as both plural and singular.
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pacomartin
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May 15th, 2011 at 10:00:11 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

A question for the forum is whether this is a casualidad (coincidence).



It is not a coincidence since they both ultimately come from the same Latin word spondere "to bind oneself, promise solemnly".

It's an idea explored in the classic NC-17 comedy ¡Átame!

Spondere gives us spouse, sponsor (someone we are bound to contractually), respond (to promise back), correspond( originally meant to be in agreement with), despondent (which originally meant to reverse a marriage proposal, but has evolved into losing will to live).

The Latin word praeservativum gives us
preservative (English),
preservativo (Spanish),
préservatif (French),
präservativ (German),
prezervativ (Romanian, Czech, Croatian),
preservativo (Italian, Portuguese),
preservativ (Slovenian),
prezerwatywa (Polish),
презерватив "prezervativ" (Russian, Serbian) and
preservatiu (Catalan).

So it is not a coincidence, but in English the word has a completely different meaning than in all the other languages. Look it up!

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