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EvenBob
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September 6th, 2011 at 2:33:56 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Going through the map of Santa Barbara I come across some streets that appear to have Spanish names, but I can't find a translation for them. First there is Chapala Street, Next there is Salsipuedes Street.
Then we come to Quarantina Street. Let's skip over Nopal. when we get to Milpas Street.



WOW! You got me going right down memory lane. I
lived in SB for 7 years, I dealt with the Spanish streets
every day. Anacapa, Anapamu, Valerio, Carrillo, Ortega,
Castillo, Sola, I saw these streets every day. I loved living
there.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
Wizard
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September 6th, 2011 at 5:20:19 PM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

Anacapa, Anapamu, Valerio, Carrillo, Ortega, Castillo, Sola, I saw these streets every day.



Me too. I liked the street names too. Much better than the greeting-card street names of the master-planned communities here in Vegas.
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EvenBob
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September 6th, 2011 at 5:39:03 PM permalink
I lived in a house on E Islay street. I saw on Google Maps last
week they revamped it into a condo somehow. 1100sq ft for
750K. SB is one of the few cities that didn't get hit at all in the
housing downturn, prices there are as stable as ever.
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Nareed
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September 6th, 2011 at 5:41:20 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Me too. I liked the street names too. Much better than the greeting-card street names of the master-planned communities here in Vegas.



I love the street names in Las Vegas, I mean those named after hotels and local personalities. And where else will you see a "Casino Center Dr."? BTW when a hotel changes names or is just imploded and not replaced, do they change the street name?

The big difference I see between Vegas and other towns with casinos is that Vegas embraces gaming, while others just put casinos within city limits.

So, no words of the day tosay, eh?

Let's try one.

September 2nd, 2011
Palabra del día: Liga.

This is curious one as it requires two words in English, when it's usually the other way around: Rubber Band. It also means web link, though that definition is more recent. And it also means "League" as in la Liga Nacional de Futbol (guess!) or La Liga de las Naciones = The League of Nations

Related words include "Ligar" which means "to bind together" but as slang it means "to try to hook up with someone of the opposite sex."

There's "Ligadura," which means to tie something off. This is related to the English word "Ligature," very popular in cop shows and CSI when every other corpse found shows "ligature marks" wither on the wrists or ankles, or both.

Example:

La Liga de las Naciones no pudo pasar a tiempo uan condena a las acciones de Italia, en parte debido a falta de ligas para sujetar el documento = The League of Nations could not pass a condemnation of Italy's actions, in part due to a lack of rubber bands to bind the document together.

Stupid example, btu I manage to use the word twice with different meanings in the same sentence.

I chose that word because I happened to be playing with a rubber band at my desk while reading this thread :)
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pacomartin
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September 6th, 2011 at 8:26:23 PM permalink
Quote: Nareed

This is curious one as it requires two words in English, when it's usually the other way around: Rubber Band. It also means web link, though that definition is more recent. And it also means "League" as in la Liga Nacional de Futbol (guess!) or La Liga de las Naciones = The League of Nations. Related words include "Ligar" which means "to bind together" but as slang it means "to try to hook up with someone of the opposite sex." There's "Ligadura," which means to tie something off. This is related to the English word "Ligature," very popular in cop shows and CSI when every other corpse found shows "ligature marks" wither on the wrists or ankles, or both.



As you mentioned English also has league with the same meaning of "alliance" derived from Latin ligare "to bind" (with related words ligature and ligament).

In English league (En) is also a vague somewhat poetic measure of roughly an hour's hike or about three miles. It is from the Latin word leuga (Lt) which my dictionary tells me in Spanish is translated legua (Sp). You only hear the word in stories about Rome or in the classic Jules Verne book. I don't know if the Spanish word is used at all since it is something I would be unlikely to hear.

In linguistics, a homonym is, in the strict sense, one of a group of words that share the same spelling and the same pronunciation but have different meanings. Thus homonyms are simultaneously homographs (words that share the same spelling, irrespective of their pronunciation) and homophones (words that share the same pronunciation, irrespective of their spelling). In casual terms most people use the word homonym when the more technical word homograph would be appropriate.

The two very different meanings of "league" qualifies them to be homonyms. They meanings are unrelated and their etymology is completely different.

Spanish has very few homographs, and almost no homonyms. But they do have homophones.

List of Spanish homophones



If we assume that a league=3 nautical miles then the circumference of the earth is 360* 60 /3 = 7,200 leagues.
If we assume that a league=3 statute miles then the circumference of the earth is 7,200*6076/5280 = 8,285 leagues.
If we assume that a league is 2.256624424 english statue miles (Spanish customary units for legue), then the circumference of the earth is 9.572 legues.
Nareed
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September 6th, 2011 at 8:54:06 PM permalink
Quote: pacomartin

You only hear the word in stories about Rome or in the classic Jules Verne book. I don't know if the Spanish word is used at all since it is something I would be unlikely to hear.



I'm not a big fan of XIX Century SF, but the Disney movie was titled in Spanish "20,000 Leguas de Viaje Submarino." It should be "20,000 Leguas Bajo el Mar," but who knows hwo they handle movie translations. The literal re-translation to English of the Spanish title is "20,000 Leagues of Undersea Travel."

The tale of Jack and the Beanstalk is not unkown but it's not popular. Still there is a footwear company that calls itself Botas 7 Leguas.
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Wizard
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September 6th, 2011 at 9:05:38 PM permalink
Quote: Nareed

I love the street names in Las Vegas, I mean those named after hotels and local personalities. And where else will you see a "Casino Center Dr."? BTW when a hotel changes names or is just imploded and not replaced, do they change the street name?

The big difference I see between Vegas and other towns with casinos is that Vegas embraces gaming, while others just put casinos within city limits.



The old Vegas street names are fine. I would say any street named after 1990 I would object to. Por ejemplo, anything west of Buffalo.

No, street names outlive the casino. This is the case with Desert Inn and just recently the Sahara. Flamingo and Tropicana, of course, still have their respective casinos.

Quote:

So, no words of the day tosay, eh?



Advinar was supposed to be the word for Sep. 6, although I posted it late on Sept 5. I'm not sure why you dated it 9/2. I know I missed a day somewhere.

Quote:

Palabra del día: Liga.

This is curious one as it requires two words in English, when it's usually the other way around: Rubber Band.



Good one. I think people used to call rubber bands "elastics." I think in either England or Australia they still do -- but what do they know?
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Nareed
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September 6th, 2011 at 9:28:50 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

No, street names outlive the casino. This is the case with Desert Inn and just recently the Sahara. Flamingo and Tropicana, of course, still have their respective casinos.



Well, "Hole in the ground Rd." isn't exactly a god name for a street :P

Quote:

Good one. I think people used to call rubber bands "elastics." I think in either England or Australia they still do -- but what do they know?



I thought "elastic" used as a noun referred to the wasitband in underwear.

In Asutralia they call pharmacies chemists. In England they call surgeons "Mister" rather than "Doctor" for some reason harking back to the early days of surgery. So, yes, what do they know? :)
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September 6th, 2011 at 9:59:39 PM permalink
Quote: Nareed

I thought "elastic" used as a noun referred to the wasitband in underwear.



They do. Perhaps that is why they had to come up with a separate expression for rubber bands.

Quote:

In Asutralia they call pharmacies chemists. In England they call surgeons "Mister" rather than "Doctor" for some reason harking back to the early days of surgery. So, yes, what do they know? :)



I know. You can see on in the video for "You Shook me All Night Long."
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pacomartin
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September 7th, 2011 at 7:51:39 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

I know. You can see on in the video for "You Shook me All Night Long."


I'm sorry, but I don't see what you are talking about in the video.

The words "rub" and "rubber" existed in English for centuries before "India rubber" was imported. Since it's first use was for erasers it acquired the name. Rubber bands are actually made out of rubber, while many materials have elastic properties, but most of them are synthetic (like elastic in underwear). In this case the name is actually correct.

Speaking of binders, "Staples" is another weird word. Originally meant to mean the posts with metal prongs that held up vendor stalls, it eventually meant "staple foods" and the other basic necessities of life (presumably because they were sold in those stalls). Somehow a century ago it gravitated to "thin wire to hold sheets of paper together". The logical connection between these three definitions is very tenuous and indicative of the peculiarities of the English language.

Slightly off subject
Thomas Young, who is the namesake for Young's modulus, a measure of elasticity is a fascinating 18th century genius. Young made notable scientific contributions to the fields of vision, light, solid mechanics, energy, physiology, language, musical harmony and Egyptology. Their are some excellent biographies about his life.
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September 7th, 2011 at 8:44:07 AM permalink
Quote: pacomartin

I'm sorry, but I don't see what you are talking about in the video.



video. Go to the 1:22 point.

About staples, that is interesting, I did not know that.

To go off topic again, last night I went to a function at my daughter's high school. Her French teacher said that 60% of English was mispronounced French. She gave some examples of words there were spelled the same, or almost the same, in French and English, but were pronounced very differently.

Any comment? I thought when the Romans invaded Britain and France, Latin became mixed with the previously spoken language (whose terms I don't know). Couldn't we say that modern French and English came along at about the same time and fairly independently? I do know that some German words got absorbed into English, like haus became house, but did the same thing happen with French?
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Nareed
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September 7th, 2011 at 8:56:54 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

To go off topic again, last night I went to a function at my daughter's high school. Her French teacher said that 60% of English was mispronounced French. She gave some examples of words there were spelled the same, or almost the same, in French and English, but were pronounced very differently.



French is mostly mispronounced Latin. So there :P

Quote:

Any comment? I thought when the Romans invaded Britain and France, Latin became mixed with the previously spoken language (whose terms I don't know). Couldn't we say that modern French and English came along at about the same time and fairly independently? I do know that some German words got absorbed into English, like haus became house, but did the same thing happen with French?



English is a Germanic language with heavy Latin influences. Rome was so widespread by both conquest and trade that Latin gained influence in languages spoken outside the Empire. So English got a double dose of Latin influence, from its Germanic side and from the direct influence of Roman conquerors.

Anwyay, all languages have taken terms, expressions and allusions from other langauges. Algebra comes from Arabic, for example, and coyote comes from Spanish via Nahuatl (I think the native word is something like "coyotl," but I may be way off).
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Nareed
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September 7th, 2011 at 4:52:50 PM permalink
Quote: pacomartin

The logical connection between these three definitions is very tenuous and indicative of the peculiarities of the English language.



Ever wonder why the armored heavy weapons known as tanks are called tanks?

The story I heard is that when the British were developing them in WWI they his the appropiations and development as work on ships' water tanks, a subject of little interest to any enemy spies.

This makes sense, as the cover would also require large amounts of metal and metal workers. And the name may have stuck because tanks were something completely new.

In Germam the word is panzer, which comes from Panzerkampfwagen meaning something like "armored combat vehicle," or "armored war vehicle." Panzer evidently means "armored," or "armor."

So let's get to the word of the day

7 de Septiembre de 2011
Palabra del día: Blindaje

Blindaje means armor, just to stay on topic. You get related words like blindado = armored, blindar = to fortify or to armor (if that's permissible) something. But it also means to be protected against an economic eventuality, at least in Mexico. This last is recent. The last two presidents used it to decribe the state of the economy, saying "la economía nacional esta blindada contra bajas en el precio del petroleo" or "The national economy is protected from lower oil prices." Also here and there banks offer credit cards advertised as being "blindadas," meaning the card holder is protected against misuse of his card, ID theft and such.

Ejemplo:

La nomina la traen del banco en un carro blindado = The payroll is sent from the bank in an armored car.
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buzzpaff
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September 7th, 2011 at 7:18:12 PM permalink
First Spanish phrase I remember hearing was in John Wayne movie The Searchers. Muy pronto Muchachos, Ondole Ondole.

Any chance you know the title of the spanish song the indian girls sang at the stage station just before the Vaqueros rode off
unexpectedly in STAGE COACH. Damn John Carradine was the perfect gentleman gambler portral in that film
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September 7th, 2011 at 7:19:53 PM permalink
As was the Mexican who was shocked to find out that scar knew who Wayne was ? No idea if a Mexican boss looked that way,
just imagined he did
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September 7th, 2011 at 7:21:10 PM permalink
Quote: buzzpaff

First Spanish phrase I remember hearing was in John Wayne movie The Searchers. Muy pronto Muchachos, Ondole Ondole.



That should be "!Ándale, ándale!" Which means something like "Let's go, let's go!" or "Move it, move it!"

Quote:

Any chance you know the title of the spanish song the indian girls sang at the stage station just before the Vaqueros rode off
unexpectedly in STAGE COACH. Damn John Carradine was the perfect gentleman gambler portral in that film



Sorry. I've never seen it.
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September 7th, 2011 at 7:43:53 PM permalink
Quote: Nareed

That should be "!Ándale, ándale!" Which means something like "Let's go, let's go!" or "Move it, move it!"



But isn't the root word andar, which means to walk? When I want somebody to hurry up, I expect them to move faster than walking speed. Why don't they use correr as the root word? I'm not sure what the exact expression should be, correle perhaps?
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September 7th, 2011 at 7:51:43 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

But isn't the root word andar, which means to walk? When I want somebody to hurry up, I expect them to move faster than walking speed.



Why don't you pick on the easy words?

Andar is the action of moving from one place to another, among other things. Caminar means to walk. So you can see that saying "¡Ándale!" means "Move it!"

Quote:

Why don't they use correr as the root word? I'm not sure what the exact expression should be, correle perhaps?



Well, that would be right, too, and it's sometimes used that way.
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September 7th, 2011 at 8:07:30 PM permalink
Quote: Nareed

Andar is the action of moving from one place to another, among other things. Caminar means to walk. So you can see that saying "¡Ándale!" means "Move it!"



I know that caminar means to walk, but thought andar means that too. When I was in Panama I forgot the word for "walk" and the doorman at my hotel said it was andar. Granted, andar is one of those words like echar and llevar that seem to mean a host of different English words, and has always given me grief. I might add that the first definition for andar at spanishdict.com is to walk.
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pacomartin
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September 7th, 2011 at 8:23:40 PM permalink
Quote: Nareed

Andar is the action of moving from one place to another, among other things. Caminar means to walk. So you can see that saying "¡Ándale!" means "Move it!"



Pardon the grammatical explanation. Imperative (Imperativo) is not really a tense, but it is a mood (modo). You will find it listed as a tense in some sources, since old grammar books often combined tenses and moods. In english this mood is usually indicated with a punctuation mark only, or a voice inflection if spoken. In Spanish it is another conjugation.

"Ánda" is the imperativo modo of the verb. Imperative (sometimes called "command" mood) makes a verb much stronger. The suffix "le" is the indirect object, so you would translate "le" as "it".

So you have upped the energy level of "walk" a notch, and you've added an indirect object, so the phrase becomes "Move it!".

Similarly if you look at the indicative mood conjugation of correr (to run) including the vosotros tense (since the Wizard is going to Argentina) you don't see the spelling corra anywhere.

present: corro , corres, corre, corremos, corréis, corren
imperfect: corría, corrías, corría, corríamos, corríais, corrían
preterite: corrí, corriste, corrió, corrimos corristeis, corrieron
future: correré, correrás, correrá, correremos, correréis, correrán
conditional: correría, correrías, correría, correríamos, correríais, correrían


Corra is the imperative mood, so No Corra is the imperative mood in the negative.

Hence, you get the sign, "Walk, Don't Run!"
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September 7th, 2011 at 8:53:26 PM permalink
I know it is slightly off topic, but Paco or anybody know the title of that song from Stagecoach. I remember John Carradine's dying words " Tell Judge Greenfield that his son ......" But always wondered if that song had a hidden message for the passengers.
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September 7th, 2011 at 9:01:42 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

To go off topic again, last night I went to a function at my daughter's high school. Her French teacher said that 60% of English was mispronounced French. She gave some examples of words there were spelled the same, or almost the same, in French and English, but were pronounced very differently.

Any comment? I thought when the Romans invaded Britain and France, Latin became mixed with the previously spoken language (whose terms I don't know). Couldn't we say that modern French and English came along at about the same time and fairly independently? I do know that some German words got absorbed into English, like haus became house, but did the same thing happen with French?



I would say that she is stretching the argument quite a lot. But I am sure that she could give you a lot of examples. If she knows her language she could give examples for hours.

Certainly the language of the Romans became mixed with the local languages when they invaded France, Spain and present day Romania. That is why we call the present day versions Romance languages because they are all variants of the "language of the Romans" (i.e. Vulgar Latin). There was a mix with the languages in Britain as well, the Brythonic or Brittonic languages like Welsh were heavily influenced by the language of the Romans over the five centuries that they ruled. But in Britain the invasion of the Angles and Saxons who brought their own language (Old English) completely changed the dominant language.

The Norman conquest of 1066 brought the Norman language to England and began radically changing the language. But the Normans were originally Vikings, so their language was part Scandinavian. The Normans brought Scandinavian words to French as well.

But Modern French dates back to around late 16th century, about the time we start dating early modern English. So it is probably more accurate to say that a good percentage of our two languages come from the same source. Normally we say that English words come from Old French which would be almost as difficult for a modern Frenchman to understand as we have with Middle English .

In addition when early modern English was being formed, there was a great deal of effort in teaching Latin to young boys. A lot of latin words were deliberately anglicized and artificially forced into the language. In much the same manner when the scientific and humanistic thinking became more important in later centuries, the Greek language was mined to create new English words to meet the demands of science.

English has a great many cognates with Spanish because Latin had such a direct influence on English. Since Spanish is much closer to Vulgar Latin then French, we get a strong correlation with Spanish (and Italian).

TRIVIA If languages derived from "Vulgar Latin" or the "The language of the Romans" became known as "Romance Languages", then why do we refer to stories about love and sex as "romantic"?
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September 7th, 2011 at 9:04:47 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

I know that caminar means to walk, but thought andar means that too. When I was in Panama I forgot the word for "walk" and the doorman at my hotel said it was andar. Granted, andar is one of those words like echar and llevar that seem to mean a host of different English words, and has always given me grief.



It's the same difficulty in all languages. In English the verb "to walk" can be transitive and intransitive depending on how it's used. Anyway, andar can mean a host of things. In the colloquial it means "to date," as in "José anda con María" which means José is dating María. If you say "no anda el coche" you'd be saying "the car doesn't run."

To move slowly taking steps is caminar. To move taking steps is andar. The latter doesn't specify speed.


Quote:

I might add that the first definition for andar at spanishdict.com is to walk.



I've seen that site. it's ok for a quick and dirty translation. But for serious study you need a different kind of dictionary. Son't realy on it too much.
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September 7th, 2011 at 9:12:10 PM permalink
Can someone help me out here ? Still dying to know what this song is from STAGECOACH

Later that night, Yakima sings a Spanish song [an exile's lament for the native land and a love song] outside to the Mexican stagepost hands:

Al pensar en ti
Tierra en que naci
Que nostalgia siente mi corazon
En mi soledad
Siento alivio y consuelo en mi dolor.

Las notas tristes de esta cancion
Me traen recuerdos de aquel amor
Al pensar en el
Vuelve a renacer
La alegria en mi triste corazon.

She abruptly interrupts herself in the middle of the song, telling the four vaqueros (loosely translated from Spanish): "OK boys, get goin'!" They ride off with all the spare horses:
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September 7th, 2011 at 9:15:20 PM permalink
Quote: buzzpaff

Can someone help me out here ? Still dying to know what this song is from STAGECOACH



Have you tried googling the lyrics?
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September 7th, 2011 at 9:16:20 PM permalink
Not yet good idea
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September 7th, 2011 at 9:16:23 PM permalink
Forget that. And I thought Latin was hard Still remember amo amas amat and something about Gall being divided into three parts
pacomartin
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September 8th, 2011 at 10:30:31 AM permalink
Quote: buzzpaff

Yakima sings a Spanish song [an exile's lament for the native land and a love song] outside to the Mexican stagepost hands:
Al pensar en ti
Tierra en que naci
Que nostalgia siente mi corazon
En mi soledad
Siento alivio y consuelo en mi dolor.

Las notas tristes de esta cancion
Me traen recuerdos de aquel amor
Al pensar en el
Vuelve a renacer
La alegria en mi triste corazon.



Elvira Rios (Yakima) sings "En mi soledad" in film Stagecoach (1939)

Try making a list of the key words with literal translations and English cognates (words based on same root Latin word). It can take considerable effort to come up with lyrics that keep the spirit of the song.


Spanish English cognate Translation
pensar pensive think
Tierra terra land
naci natal birth
nostalgia nostalgia nostalgia
corazon coronary heart
soledad solitary loneliness
Siento sensitive I feel
alivio alleve relief
consuelo console consolation
doler ?? pain
notas notes notes
tristes ?? sad
cancion cantus song
traen ?? bring
recuerdos recording memories
amor amarous love
Vuelve ?? returns
renacer re-birth revive
alegría ?? joy
triste ?? sad
corazon. coronary heart.


A word for word translation is usually less than lyrical.

When thinking of it,
The land of my birth
I feel nostalgia in my heart
In my solitude
I feel relief and consolation in my pain.


The sad notes of this song
Bring memories of this love
In thinking this
Is re-born
The gladness in my sad heart.


I don't think there is a hidden message in the song. It's a pretty straightforward lyrics about being homesick. I imagine the character is meant to be another clash of good & bad characterization. She is a supposedly ignorant and possibly dangerous woman married to a simple man. But she can sing like an opera singer.
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September 8th, 2011 at 10:51:09 AM permalink
Thanks Paco I always wondered about the intent of that song. I now know is was just another great factor in one of my favorite
movies. THANKS AGAIN !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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September 9th, 2011 at 7:35:35 AM permalink
In honor of the Wizard's blog post on punctuality, here's the word for today:

9 de Septeimbre de 2011
Palabra del día: Plantado, plantada

Simply stated this means "planted" as in "the seedlings have been planted." Coloquially, in Mexico, it means being stood up for an appointment.

Ejemplo:

No llegó. me dejó plantada = He dind't show up. He stood me up.

It's sued also in reference to people who don't stadn you up on purpose, but who are so late they might as well have not shown up. A friend of mine had a friend, whom I never met, who'd often do this. He started to call his friend "El Jardinero," meaning "The Gardener," because he always left everyone "plantado."

The word derives from "planta" meaning, surprisingly enough "plant." Related words include the verb "plantar" meaning "to plant" or "to sow." BUt, as usual, there are other definitsion. A full time employee will often be called "empleado de planta," for example. This last applies more to domestic workers, but not exclusively so.

A power plant, or a bottling plant, are also called plantas in Spanish. A minor curiosity is that a power plant, that si to say a massive instalation that burns fuel to make electricity, is called "planta de luz." For some reason in Mexico "luz," meaning light, is synonimous with "power" when talking about electricity. In mexico you don't say "there's a power outage," or "people were left without power after the hurricane," but rather "se fué la luz" (the light left, literally) or "la gente se quedó sin luz después del huracán."

I think this comes from the fact that the first widespread use of electricity in homes involved lights. You couldn't see electricity, but you could see the light it produced. Also nine times out of ten, you notice a power outage because the lights go out.

But I digress. :)

PS I'm not very consistent in following the rules on when vowels have an accent on them (like "ó"). Still, sometimes I do recall suing them. Question is whether other users can see them or do they get wome weird ASCII characters isntead. Samples: á é í ó ú
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Alan
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September 9th, 2011 at 8:40:06 AM permalink
I wonder if there is any relationship between 'luz' and lux, since lux is a unit of lighting...could be, could not be...hmmm.
Nareed
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September 9th, 2011 at 8:56:29 AM permalink
Of course. Lux is Latin for light.

So why "LUXury"? That seems more interesting.
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September 9th, 2011 at 9:43:35 AM permalink
Thanks, for doing the word of the day ahoy. That is a good one -- education and humorous.

Normally I'm not one to pick on typos but you wrote "sue" twice, when you meant "use." Just a friendly FYI.
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Nareed
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September 9th, 2011 at 10:12:45 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Thanks, for doing the word of the day ahoy. That is a good one -- education and humorous.

Normally I'm not one to pick on typos but you wrote "sue" twice, when you meant "use." Just a friendly FYI.



I type too fsat adn dot'n proof raed. Sometiems hte fingres dno't catch the keys in rder, or iss a ew etters :P

But turnabout is fair play. I criticize your Spanish a lot, it's only fair you should criticize my English.

BTW Hoy = Today; Ahoy = A type of chocolate chip cookie (she said with a straight face) "A hoy," two words, isn't really used, but "para hoy" or "de hoy" would mean for today or today's
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Doc
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September 9th, 2011 at 10:28:07 AM permalink
Quote: Nareed

Of course. Lux is Latin for light.


OK, so I'm giving further proof here that I stumble in English and know almost nothing of other languages....

One of the schools I went to had a motto, "Alenda Lux Ubi Orta Libertas". The traditional translation is, "Let learning be cherished where liberty has arisen". A Latin/German/Greek professor there once told me that the verb form is imperative, and the proper translation should be more emphatic as, "Learning must be cherished where liberty has arisen."

I mentioned this just to show one more way that languages can be confusing to a novice like me. Yes, "Lux" is Latin for "light", but apparently it is also a Latin passive imperative verb form for "must be cherished".

By the way, Google Translate does an absolutely atrocious translation for that motto, including interpreting "Lux" as "light" and "Alenda" as "feed" instead of the gerund "learning".
pacomartin
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September 9th, 2011 at 10:32:00 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Normally I'm not one to pick on typos but you wrote "sue" twice, when you meant "use." Just a friendly FYI.



In English a mistake where you switch two letters in a word is sometimes called a spoonerism. The word "spoonerism" is an eponym, a word that is invented from a person's name, in this case Reverend William Archibald Spooner from Oxford.

Although it is not as common anymore, a staple of TV shows and stories was a character similar to Archie Bunker whose lines were written to have a lot of "spoonerisms" but for comic effect. Shakespeare had some characters who did the same thing (like the gravedigger in Hamlet). A spoonerism is a way for a seemingly ignorant character to say something profound.

In French, they call this game Contrepèterie.

Spoonerism is joined by chauvinistic (one of Napolean's generals) , gerrymandering (an American politician), yogiism (a baseball coach),bowdlerism (means to remove the vulgar and offensive parts, from a 19th century editor of Shakespeare), as famous English eponyms, and ritzy (after the operator of a high class hotel).

My questions to Nareed are: (1) how do you say "eponym" in Spanish?; (2) Is some variation of contrepèterie used in Spansih for wordplay?; (3) What are some eponyms that would be well known in Spanish (besides quixotic) that English speakers wouldn't understand?
Nareed
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September 9th, 2011 at 10:35:12 AM permalink
What I don't know about Latin would fill up a library (not a big library, you understand, but still....). I'm fairly certain "lux" means light because 1) it sounds like "luz" which does mean light and 2) there's a unit for measuring light called a lux.

On the other hand there's a Latin word along the lines of Lumin or Lumen, which I'm told also means light, or perhaps illumination (as in lightning). In French, a Romance language, the phrase "sound and light" is something like "son et lumiere." In Spanish Iluminación means 1) to light something up, as when shining a light on something, 2) to add color to a drawing or other form of art and 3) to be enlightened. Notice the link between light and enlighten, too.

Lumen is also a unit to mesure light.

So, what i don't know about Latin.... but I've said that before.
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pacomartin
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September 9th, 2011 at 10:50:52 AM permalink
Quote: Doc

OK, so I'm giving further proof here that I stumble in English and know almost nothing of other languages....

One of the schools I went to had a motto, "Alenda Lux Ubi Orta Libertas". The traditional translation is, "Let learning be cherished where liberty has arisen". A Latin/German/Greek professor there once told me that the verb form is imperative, and the proper translation should be more emphatic as, "Learning must be cherished where liberty has arisen."

I mentioned this just to show one more way that languages can be confusing to a novice like me. Yes, "Lux" is Latin for "light", but apparently it is also a Latin passive imperative verb form for "must be cherished".

By the way, Google Translate does an absolutely atrocious translation for that motto, including interpreting "Lux" as "light" and "Alenda" as "feed" instead of the gerund "learning".



Quote: Genesis


In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
And God saw the light, and it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.



Doc,
I think you are confusing a figurative translation for a literal one. The first four verses of the bible were very famous, and the Hebrew יְהִי אוֹר (yehiy 'or) is translated into Latin as fiat lux, Greek as γενηθήτω φώς (or genēthētō phōs), Spanish as sea la luz and English as Let there be light.

The phrase is a metaphorical meaning of dispelling ignorance and learning.

Alenda is a declension of alō which in Latin means "nourish" or "cherish". What your professor was saying is that the English spelling of the word is used for both the nominative and the vocative case Latin. The nominative case is straightforward, but the vocative case is used for a noun identifying the person or thing being addressed. It corresponds to the archaic English particle "O" as used in solemn or poetic address: Hear me, O Albion! So it might be more properly translated as O Cherish!. The word "lux" still means light literally, but "learning" figuratively.

O Cherish Leaning Where Liberty has Arisen might be a better translation of the Davidson college motto.
Nareed
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September 9th, 2011 at 11:01:15 AM permalink
Quote: pacomartin

I think you are confusing a figurative translation for a literal one. The first four verses of the bible were very famous, and the Hebrew יְהִי אוֹר (yehiy 'or) is translated into Latin as fiat lux, Greek as γενηθήτω φώς (or genēthētō phōs), Spanish as sea la luz and English as Let there be light.



I don't read the Bible, nor have I ever read it in Spanish that I can recall, bt I've heard that verse used as "¡Hágase la luz!" more or less "let light be made," or "let light come to be."

But then that's part of the punchline of a well-known quick joke.
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Nareed
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September 9th, 2011 at 11:05:26 AM permalink
Quote: pacomartin

My questions to Nareed are: (1) how do you say "eponym" in Spanish?; (2) Is some variation of contrepèterie used in Spansih for wordplay?; (3) What are some eponyms that would be well known in Spanish (besides quixotic) that English speakers wouldn't understand?



Of all that all I can easily udnerstand is that"quixotic" is not used in Spanish. The word "Quijotesco" does exist and would be understood, but it means something realted to the style affected by Cervantes, not to undertake an impossible quest.

In fact, the English expression, I suspect, might have come from the play "The Man of La Mancha" and the song about the impossible dream.

BTW where does Shakespearan rank as a word derived from a persons' name?
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pacomartin
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September 9th, 2011 at 11:13:40 AM permalink
Quote: Nareed

I don't read the Bible, nor have I ever read it in Spanish that I can recall, bt I've heard that verse used as "¡Hágase la luz!" more or less "let light be made," or "let light come to be."

But then that's part of the punchline of a well-known quick joke.



The phrase ¡Hágase la luz! is not normally used to translate Let there be light but is normally used in to translate another famous verse translated in King James as:

For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

It is a phrase written in Greek that was written hundreds of years later, but is referencing the earlier phrase that was written in Hebrew.

Quote: Nareed

Of all that all I can easily udnerstand is that"quixotic" is not used in Spanish. The word "Quijotesco" does exist and would be understood, but it means something realted to the style affected by Cervantes, not to undertake an impossible quest.

In fact, the English expression, I suspect, might have come from the play "The Man of La Mancha" and the song about the impossible dream.

BTW where does Shakespearan rank as a word derived from a persons' name?



I am sorry, the word is quixotic in English. It does mean to act in the manner of Don Quixote. You are correct that very few English speakers have read Cervantes even in translation, but most people are familiar with the story or the musical version.

Shakesperian is an adjective, but it isn't very descriptive of any one characteristic. It may simply mean that someone is using high language.

Chauvinism, in its original and primary meaning, is an exaggerated, bellicose patriotism and a belief in national superiority and glory and was named for fictional French soldier Nicolas Chauvin. In the 1960's the word was coupled with male to form male chauvinism to refer to men who believe in the natural superiority of men over women. Because it has been used in this context only for decades, most people associate it with male superiority.
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September 9th, 2011 at 5:00:55 PM permalink
Quote: pacomartin

My questions to Nareed are: (1) how do you say "eponym" in Spanish?; (2) Is some variation of contrepèterie used in Spansih for wordplay?; (3) What are some eponyms that would be well known in Spanish (besides quixotic) that English speakers wouldn't understand?



Ok. Having re-read the post in a more leisurely fashion, I think I can answer now:

1) no idea.
2) no idea
3) I already asnwered it.

On 2, Spanish wordplay is even sillier and more contrived than it is in English. And anturally 99.999999....9% of the time it cannot be translated successfuly. A typical pun goes like this: someone says, "me siento mal." someone else answers "pues siéntate bien." The translation is "I feel poorly." and the answer "so sit up straight." See?

Just the same, there's an Argentine commedy/musical group called Les Luthiers, whom I may have mentioned a time or twenty eight, who do use a lot of word play in their routines. Typically there's a narrative or dialog to set up a song. One such, concerning mythical composer Johan Sebastian Mastropiero's quest to compose music for movies, carried this narration:

"Mastropiero made a good impression on Skinny Walrus [that's the actual name used], the head of one ofthe biggest studios. Skinny Walrus was the CEO of Walrus Bros. He commisioned Mastropiero to write the score for the latest production by celebrated director Ralph Smith: 'The Abominable Beast'... the director, that is. The film was called "The Mysterious Murderer."

Stuff like that. Their best works do rely on word play and are completely untranslatable.

Some of their commedy relies on massive exaggeration. there's one bit called "El Vals Del Segundo." IT tells the sotry, for over 20 minutes, of how Mastropiero, along with his students, researched through mounds of musical history to compose a piece called "The Waltz of the Second." At the end they play the peice, which lasts exactly one second.

Oh, well, i could go on and on (and on and on) about them and get not even a mild chuckle from any of you. I'll just say their website says they once played a show in NYC in English (they habitually do a little bilingual commedy in some pieces). I would love to track it down.
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pacomartin
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September 10th, 2011 at 11:19:24 PM permalink
Quote: Nareed

sh wordplay is even sillier and more contrived than it is in English. And anturally 99.999999....9% of the time it cannot be translated successfuly. A typical pun goes like this: someone says, "me siento mal." someone else answers "pues siéntate bien." The translation is "I feel poorly." and the answer "so sit up straight." See?



Ronnie Barker built an entire career about mispronunciation. Many of the references are very British and I don't get them.

Les filles aiment le tennis en pension is apparently very common joke in French, but even with an online translator I have no idea why it is funny.

Your Spanish joke reminds me of a classic vaudeville joke.
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September 11th, 2011 at 8:24:00 PM permalink
Fecha: Sep. 12, 2011
Palabra del dia: solitario


Today's word, solitario=lonely. This is an easy one, as you would guess solitario would mean solitary, which would likely cause feelings of lonliness. I'm sure Paco can help with the etymology of "sol," but my guess would be related to the number one.

Ejemplo time.

Uno es el numero mas solitario. = One is the lonliest number.
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September 11th, 2011 at 8:44:07 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Today's word, solitario=lonely. This is an easy one, as you would guess solitario would mean solitary, which would likely cause feelings of lonliness.



I'm surprised you didn't say it's also the Spanish word for "solitaire." But then that's not a casino game ;)
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pacomartin
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September 11th, 2011 at 8:58:41 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

I'm sure Paco can help with the etymology of "sol," but my guess would be related to the number one.



I think sol has always meant sun.

But se is Latin for "himself". The word solus is latin for "alone".

==============
The word has an idiomatic suffix:
The word solitude translates as la soledad, the only other similar translation I can find is that vastitude translates as vastedad. Vastitude is a rare English word that means immensity.


But it is much more common to translate the "ude" suffix differently

English aptitude is Spanish aptitud
English amplitude is Spanish amplitud
English attitude is Spanish actitud *
English allude is Spanish alluden
etc.

* Spanish has only 3 double-letter combinations "cc, ll, and rr" whereas in English we double many letters. So "attitude" becomes "actitud" where the ""tt" becomes "ct", and the final letter "e" is dropped.

The "dad" ending in Spanish is much more common as a translation for the "ty" suffix in English.
So English cruelty becomes Spanish crueldad
English constitucionality becomes Spanish constitucionalidad

It is almost as if the word solity was missing from the English language. The literal translation for English "solitude" is "the solity" in Spanish.

Here is a list of common English words the end in "ude". Only solitude is translated with the "dad" ending.
English Spanish
altitude altitud
amplitude amplitud
aptitude aptitud
gratitude gratitud
ineptitude ineptitud
ingratitude ingratitud
latitude latitud
magnitude magnitud
attitude actitud
vicissitude vicisitud
laude laude (straight from Latin)
allude aludir
elude eludir
exclude excluir
extrude extrudir
exude exudar
include incluir
preclude evitar
protrude sobresalir
delude engañar
intrude entrometerse
obtrude entrometerse
collude confabularse
crude crudo
nude desnudo
rude grosero
prude mojigato
dude amigo
interlude interludio
prelude preludio
fortitude fortaleza
platitude lugar común
solitude soledad
Nareed
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September 13th, 2011 at 8:12:14 PM permalink
I have the energy for a qiuck one. So let's relate it to my day:

Fecha 13 de Septeimbre de 2011
Palabra del día: Desperdicio.

Simply put it means waste. It may also mean trash or refuse. Related verb is "Desperdiciar"

Ejemplo:

Desperdicié medio día en una junta con gente del gobierno = I wasted half the day in a meeting with government people.
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September 13th, 2011 at 8:19:47 PM permalink
Quote: Nareed

Fecha 13 de Septeimbre de 2011
Palabra del día: Desperdicio



Thanks. I think that is one of my 2,000 flash card vocabulary words. Whenever it comes up I usually incorrectly guess "desperate."

Here we always use basura for trash. For meeting I thought the word was reunion, which is a false cognate/friend.
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September 13th, 2011 at 8:32:49 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Thanks. I think that is one of my 2,000 flash card vocabulary words. Whenever it comes up I usually incorrectly guess "desperate."



My brother, who's almost as fluent as I am in English, sometimes still mistakes "after" for "before," because he says it sounds to him like "antes," which is Spanish for "before"

Quote:

For meeting I thought the word was reunion, which is a false cognate/friend.



I still don't quite get that. In any case they're almost synonymous. "Reunión" is used mostly to refer to a social gathering. But if you said "Estuve reunida con gente del gobierno," you are indeed correctly stating that "I was in a meeting with government people."
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pacomartin
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September 13th, 2011 at 10:28:20 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Thanks. I think that is one of my 2,000 flash card vocabulary words. Whenever it comes up I usually incorrectly guess "desperate."

Here we always use basura for trash. For meeting I thought the word was reunion, which is a false cognate/friend.



The two words come from different Latin words that are close in spelling.

Late Latin word perdere (ruin, destroy; lose)
Latin word disperdere (ruin utterly;destroy,)
related Latin word (disperditio)
Spanish words desperdiciar (infinitive form) desperdiciado, and desperdicio
English words (doesn't seem that there are any cognates)
RAE desperdiciar.
(Del lat. disperditĭo, de disperdĕre, consumir, derrochar).
1. tr. Malbaratar, gastar o emplear mal algo. Desperdiciar el dinero, la comida.
2. tr. desaprovechar (‖ dejar pasar una oportunidad). Desperdiciar la ocasión, el tiempo.


Late Latin prefix de-
Latin word de (away; down)
Latin word sperare (hope for; trust; look forward to)
Latin word desperare (despair; have no trust, give up hope)
Latin word desperatus (related form)
English word desperate
Spanish word desesperado

desesperado, da.
1. adj. Dominado por la desesperación. U. t. c. s.
2. adj. Extremo, forzoso, causado por la desesperación. Una decisión desesperada.
3. adj. Que no tiene remedio o no permite concebir esperanzas. Un caso desesperado.
a la desesperado
1. loc. adv. Acudiendo a remedios extremos para lograr lo que no parece posible de otro modo.



Prefixes
dis-
a Latin prefix meaning “apart,” “asunder,” “away,” “utterly,” or having a privative, negative, or reversing force
des-
the usual form of Latin dis- in Spanish.
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