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pacomartin
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May 28th, 2011 at 11:04:45 AM permalink
Quote: Nareed

The related English word is "stationary," as in "not currently in motion."



The signs that say "no parking" have now been replaced by "no standing" near airports and street corners. Either that is because of the large number of Spanish speaking people in the USA, or it is because so many people argued that as long as they were sitting in the car they weren't "parked".

The word in English originally meant a pen for animals. It became a place to put military vehicles in the late 17th century, and only acquired the meaning of placing a civilian carriage in a certain spot in the 19th century (before gasoline powered vehicles).

My dictionary says that "parquear" is the term most often used in Columbia.

Probably for the last 60 years, "going parking" has been English slang for making out in a car, which is often applied to people who are too young to have apartments.



A standard horror story since WWII is the young couple who are "parking" when they are terrorized by the man with hook for a hand.


I don't know if there is an equivalent idiom in Mexico.
Nareed
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May 28th, 2011 at 11:32:40 AM permalink
Quote: pacomartin

My dictionary says that "parquear" is the term most often used in Columbia.



I normally don't make fun of typos because I commit plenty on my own. But this one keeps coming up. So I'll ask: Columbia the university, or Washington, District of Columbia?

ColOmbia, now, is a country in South America. Remember than Columbus in Spanish is known as Colón.

Quote:

I don't know if there is an equivalent idiom in Mexico.



Not that I know of.
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pacomartin
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May 28th, 2011 at 11:57:12 AM permalink
Quote: Nareed

I normally don't make fun of typos because I commit plenty on my own. But this one keeps coming up. So I'll ask: Columbia the university, or Washington, District of Columbia? Colombia, now, is a country in South America. Remember than Columbus in Spanish is known as Colón.



I forget that there is a different spelling.

John Cabot, who sailed under funding by Henry VIII, was the original celebrated discoverer of British North America. For some reason, Christopher Columbus became very popular in pre-revolution America despite never setting foot in North America. He may have become popular simply because the new nation needed heroes that were not associated with Britain. In particular Benjamin Franklin was big on naming the new country Columbia (hence the District of Columbia). Ben hated the name USA and considered it very bureaucratic.

In 1828, Washington Irving wrote "The Life and Voyages of Christopher Columbus" which was hugely popular. He invented the story that Columbus convinced Europeans of his time that the Earth is not flat. This idea seems to have come purely from Washington Irving's imagination. Columbus was so popular that Irving could not bring himself to admit that Columbus made his voyage against all known logic, and was actually one of the luckiest men in history. So he came up with the story that indicated that most of the monarch's advisors were ignorant and Columbus was smarter than all of them.
Nareed
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May 28th, 2011 at 12:27:11 PM permalink
Quote: pacomartin

Columbus was so popular that Irving could not bring himself to admit that Columbus made his voyage against all known logic, and was actually one of the luckiest men in history. So he came up with the story that indicated that most of the monarch's advisors were ignorant and Columbus was smarter than all of them.



Indeed. Columbus' big idea was that the Earth was smaller than believed, therefore crossing the Atlantic ought to get you from Europe to Asia. He was lucky there was a whole continent in between, otherwise his expedition would likely have starved to death proving Columbus wrong.

But then the real story seems incredible, too. Eratosthenes measured the Earth's circumference over 1,500 years before Columbus and with uncanny accuracy. His measurement was off from the most accurate done two millennia later by about 2%, far from what Columbus thought.
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pacomartin
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May 28th, 2011 at 2:15:13 PM permalink
Quote: Nareed

But then the real story seems incredible, too. Eratosthenes measured the Earth's circumference over 1,500 years before Columbus and with uncanny accuracy. His measurement was off from the most accurate done two millennia later by about 2%, far from what Columbus thought.



Hence, the "luckiest idiot" theory. However, unknown to Eratosthenes was precisely how far the continents stretched around the earth.

However, since people in the middle ages had made the journey to the East by land, most people generally thought that the Eurasian continent stretched half way around the world. Even that was generous since Tokyo is at 140 degrees east, and the Canary islands is 15 degrees west.

Toscanelli's completely erroneous map had a large influence on Colombus. It showed a nice big island of Antilia (or Antillia) with a convenient stopping place. He had Japan (Zipango) roughly at the same longitude as Veracruz Mexico or Houston Texas. So not only did Colombus have the diameter of the Earth wrong, he was under the delusion that Japan was roughly 140 degrees further East., and that it was a tropical island.

It is doubtful that Colombus would have made it as far as Veracruz in the small ships without stopping for water and food. He was counting on landing at the legendary island.


Quote: Extract of the First Letter of Paolo Toscanelli to Columbus


"The said voyage is not only possible, but it is true, and certain to be honourable and to yield incalculable profit, and very great fame among all Christians. But you cannot know this perfectly save through experience and practice, as I have had in the form of the most copious and good and true information from distinguished men of great learning who have come from the said parts, here in the court of Rome, and from others being merchants who have had business for a long time in those parts, men of high authority."

Nareed
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May 29th, 2011 at 5:38:05 AM permalink
Fecha: 29 de Mayo
Palabra del día: Hot Cakes


It is my position that once a word, phrase or term in one language is adopted in common, every day use in another, then it becomes part of the latter language. Ergo "hot cakes" is a word in Spanish, at least in Mexico.

It means pancakes. I find example superfluous.

The term is used in all brands of pancake flour, some brands of maple syrup substitute (which is actually maple-flavored corn syrup), and in every restaurant offering pancakes I've ever been to, except for the local ihop.
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Doc
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May 29th, 2011 at 9:09:22 AM permalink
All riiiiight! If you come up with enough words like this, I might actually learn a little bit of "Spanish". One of the few words I remember from my French lessons many years ago is "le parking", meaning a spot in los estacionamiento.
pacomartin
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May 29th, 2011 at 9:48:48 AM permalink
Quote: Doc

All riiiiight! If you come up with enough words like this, I might actually learn a little bit of "Spanish". One of the few words I remember from my French lessons many years ago is "le parking", meaning a spot in los estacionamiento.



There is a "le parking" bar in montreal, but I don't think it means what it used to in your French class
Nareed
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May 30th, 2011 at 6:54:54 AM permalink
Fecha: 30 de Mayo
Palabra del día: Despensa


Most dictionaries will translate this word as pantry or larder, which is entirely correct. As such you can say "Pon la mostaza en la despensa" "Put the mustard in the pantry."

However, in Mexico, and perhaps elsewhere, it has an additional meaning: a package, bag or basket of non-perishable food products. For exmaple, various government agencies provide despensas to people who "need" help feeding themselves and their families. These typically include items like corn flour for tortillas, sugar, beans, lentils, rice, pasta, sardines (beats me, too), tuna, soy protein, milk and cooking oil among others. It's a huge business.

Around Christmas grocery stores sell despensas either in boxes or baskets. they come in all types from "basic" to "luxury." The latter tend to be called "canastas" (baskets), but not always. An example fo the latter would include inside things like wine, cookies, some canned sea food, cured ham, nuts, etc. These are commonly given as gifts to employees, business associates, clients, etc. around that time.

I think I'm done now.

[edited to change the date]
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pacomartin
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May 30th, 2011 at 7:50:28 AM permalink
Quote: Nareed

Fecha: 29 de Mayo
Palabra del día: Despensa



Como se dice vales de despensa en ingles?
Nareed
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May 30th, 2011 at 8:15:35 AM permalink
Quote: pacomartin

Como se dice vales de despensa en ingles?



I couldn't cover all the definitions and not let you and the Wizard have any fun, could I? ;)
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only1choice
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May 30th, 2011 at 8:57:20 AM permalink
Quote: Nareed

Fecha: 29 de Mayo
Palabra del día: Despensa


I think I'm done now.



I have been trying to get my wife to contribute to this thread, so you could get a Dominician slant on the various phrases. No luck yet as she is always busy and now we are leaving for Tahoe June 5th.

"El Exito en el juego llegara para los que se lloman el tiempo para aprender las reglas del juego y estudiar sus metodos y ventajas"

Translation:
"Gambling success will come to those who spend the time to learn the game and study advantage methods"
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Nareed
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May 30th, 2011 at 9:34:48 AM permalink
Quote: only1choice

"El Exito en el juego llegara para los que se lloman el tiempo para aprender las reglas del juego y estudiar sus metodos y ventajas"

Translation:
"Gambling success will come to those who spend the time to learn the game and study advantage methods"



Three quibbles:

1) It's "toman" not "lloman." The latter isn't a word.
2) The translation should be "...those who take the time...." for a closer literal meaning. Yours is ok, too, as would ahve been "...those who invest the time..." But "toman" means "take" rather than "spend" or "invest"
3) Also "...and study its advantages and methods."
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only1choice
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May 30th, 2011 at 9:43:40 AM permalink
The wife says thank you for the correction. I thought it would be easy for her to give me the words but I now realize that it is necessary to take the time to think about the phrase and how it is used.
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Nareed
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May 30th, 2011 at 9:54:30 AM permalink
Quote: only1choice

The wife says thank you for the correction. I thought it would be easy for her to give me the words but I now realize that it is necessary to take the time to think about the phrase and how it is used.



Speakign or writing in a lanaguage is different from translating between languages.

For translations, IMO, there are three factors to consider in order of importance:

1) Accuracy. Does the translation convey an accurate maning of the original?
2) Literal translation. Always use the literal translation except when that reduces the accuracy of meaning.
3) Style. Try to reflect the style of the original.

Of course I'm not a proffesional translator, just a convenient one when a quick and accurate translation is needed.

Funny story. One day years ago the Mexican government published rules about how imported garments had to be labeled. My dad and brother learned of the changes a day or so before they were published from a news clipping faxed by a US supplier. Well and good, but they wanted me to translate the English clip to Spanish for our Spaniard suppliers.

Me: why don't we wait til they're published and send the Spaniards the full rules in Spanish?
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pacomartin
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May 30th, 2011 at 10:25:32 AM permalink
Quote: only1choice

I have been trying to get my wife to contribute to this thread, so you could get a Dominician slant on the various phrases.



I have been to Santiago de los Caballeros in the heart of the Dominican Republic. Where is your wife from?
We stayed in a fantastic hotel in the city
konceptum
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May 30th, 2011 at 10:58:14 AM permalink
Quote: Nareed

sardines (beats me, too),


Sardines are common in free food baskets and/or food for the poor/needy for many reasons. Probably the primary reason is that canned sardines basically don't go bad. Well, they are considered "non-perishable" and basically will last a REALLY long time. In addition, canned sardines don't necessarily need to be cooked. Raw sardines may not taste all that great, but they are still perfectly edible without cooking. Which makes them a convenient food source as well. All of this is combined with the fact that sardines are high in nutrients and vitamins, and don't collect toxic levels of mercury like other types of fish.
only1choice
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May 30th, 2011 at 11:06:40 AM permalink
She is from a small town Monte Plata, but all of the family lives in Santo Domingo now.
Some of my observations, by the way I had a great time.
The first time she took me to her country of course we had to go to a casino. Upon entering was a sign in spanish and english "check guns at the door". Guns are legal. While sitting at a table you could have a full dish of rice, beans and meat/chicken and eat while playing. At entrances to condos, fast food joints etc. normally there would be a guard with a sawed off shotgun. Sports books are like 7-11s.
The roofing material used on many of the poorer peoples shacks is the metal with ridges that you might see here as a fence around a used car parts lot.
When barbecuing if your not using gas you have to buy black market charcoal. The charcoal that we use is not sold. The charcoal they use is made from the trees, I don't know the process. One of the reasons that there is so much flooding on the other part of the island Haiti is the people can't afford gas and cut the trees down. On the way to a beach house we stopped in a small town to buy the charcoal using the same methods as if we were buying drugs. After making the purchase we continued the drive in a giant size Toyota land cruiser not available in the states. As we drove thru little towns people would come out to see if it was a politician driving by. In Santo Domingo there is a convential bridge to cross a river and a pontoon bridge put up by the army next to it. Next to the convential bridge is a sign that said use at your own risk! Many of the resorts are tremendous, a little known secret it is cheap to arrange for accommodations at a resort using Dominican dollars. Driving thru the city is an adventure traffic lites are optional. On the highway we hit speeds of 100 miles an hour and if stopped which is rare a ten dollar bribe would be sufficient.
Overall just a beautiful country. While it is relatively safe I would not venture out into the country without a family member from the country or a guide.
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pacomartin
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May 30th, 2011 at 12:36:42 PM permalink
Quote: only1choice

She is from a small town Monte Plata, but all of the family lives in Santo Domingo now..



There is a beautiful bay, called Samana about 23 air miles from Monte Plata (a lot more driving miles)


At one point in the 19th century , the DR applied to become a US state. Their bid was supported by Ulysses S Grant, but was rejected by congress. Now about a million Dominicians live in the New York area.

There is a lot of guns, and you do feel like you are in the Wild West sometimes. US Tourism is picking up, but mostly on the North side it was Germans.

My cousin's wife is from Santiago. He met her in Puerto Rico at a seminar. She went to college in Puerto Rico and then was employed by Johnson and Johnson.

There was a US Senator that proposed a bill for countries like that. We would give them enough US banknotes to replace their local currency. In exchange they would make certain promises regarding anti-money laundering and not to switch back to a local currency. They could make their own coins. That way there wouldn't be the danger of manipulation of the currency by kingpins like Ramon Baez Figueroa. It was rejected by the US Senate who would never let the bill get out of committee. So in order to dollarize, a country has to raise all that money on their own and replace their currency. So far only El Salvador and Ecuador have done that (historically Panama always used the dollar).

The request to change currencies must initially come from the local country. But it is unlikely that a small country in North America would turn down an offer like that. Mexico would have an extensive debate, but not the DR that has so many emigrants in the USA. There would be huge advantages to being able to tap into the global market for loans.
only1choice
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May 30th, 2011 at 12:50:41 PM permalink
Quote: pacomartin

There is a beautiful bay, called Samana about 23 air miles from Monte Plata (a lot more driving miles)



My esposa thanks you for your informative comments. On another trip that I didn't make my brother-in-law another "gringo" was close to buying a residence in Samana but the deal fell thru.
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Nareed
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May 30th, 2011 at 2:18:55 PM permalink
Quote: only1choice

The roofing material used on many of the poorer peoples shacks is the metal with ridges that you might see here as a fence around a used car parts lot.



That's typical all throughout Latin America.

Quote:

When barbecuing if your not using gas you have to buy black market charcoal. The charcoal that we use is not sold. The charcoal they use is made from the trees, I don't know the process.



All charcoal is made from trees. Charcoal is just charred wood. Most of the volatiles are gone, which is why it's hard to light. The brickets you find in stores are processed further, compressed and who know what else, but they're essentially charred wood. What you got probably looks like charred wood, crumbly and sheds lots of black dust. You can get charcoal like that in Mexico in stores.

Here we call it carbón, which does mean carbon (imagine that!!), but isn't.

Oh, I juts recalled one of the worst translations I've ver heard. There was a kid's science show called Beakman's World (pretty good regarding science, BTW). A local channel carried a dubbed version. Well, once Beakman got this question: How much lead is in a lead pencil? The answer is "There is no lead in a lead pencil," as "lead" refers to the color of the graphite used in pencils.

In the dubbed version, the question was posed "Cuanto carbón hay en un lápiz?" the answer was "No hay carbón en los lápices!"

Of course a pencil is made of: wood, graphite, rubber, glue a little metal ring and some paint. Well, the wood and rubber are mostly carbon, and the graphite is almost pure carbon! the glue may have a lot of carbon, too, as might the paint. The metal may have none (unless it's stainless steel....)

Sure, they probably used "carbón" meaning charcoal, of which there is none in pencils. But a science show should be accurate.
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pacomartin
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May 30th, 2011 at 4:43:43 PM permalink
Quote: only1choice

On another trip that I didn't make my brother-in-law another "gringo" was close to buying a residence in Samana but the deal fell thru.



People get all excited about these ultra remote locations. I think it would be a great place to go to rent a house, but if you are going to purchase I think you'll get bored. A lot of people don't think about Veracruz, Mexico but I think it's a fun place to go. Good dining options, and very comfortable climate.

You can get an estuary home in Boca del Rio, Veracruz MX 4 bedroom, 5 bath, 3000 square feet, slip for boat, easy access to Gulf of Mexico for $300K USD.

Here's a home in the mountains of Cordoba, Veracruz for $580K US dollars that is over 5000 sq feet, 6 bedrooms, 6 baths, 3 levels, with two separate apartments with their own bath. You can fly to Mexico City and catch a luxury bus right from the airport directly to Cordoba.

I'm not saying you would necessarily want such a large home, but you can get places for a lot less than Samana Bay, and it won't take all day to get there.

I've met too many people who are sick and tired of rebuilding their homes after hurricanes. Cordoba is easy to get to, and it's in the mountains about 65 miles from the beach.

Doc
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May 30th, 2011 at 4:49:50 PM permalink
Quote: pacomartin

There is a beautiful bay, called Samana about 23 air miles from Monte Plata.


My wife and I visited Samana on a cruise ship in 1982. Someone recognized that such a beautiful bay could attract tourists, and they had built a nice pier and a resort hotel on a mountain nearby. Unfortunately, they had not developed the local infrastructure to support a tourist industry in a professional way. It was mostly dumping a couple thousand American tourists ashore where they were inundated with impoverished locals begging or trying to sell anything that they might get a little money for. It was the worst cruise port experience we have ever had, and the cruise line soon discontinued that destination.

In the last couple of years, I have seen itineraries for ships once again going to Samana. I hope they have done some planning and provided an improved infrastructure for tourism. If they do it right, the tourists could have a wonderful time and would bring substantial money into an area that needs it. The way they did it in the early '80s was stupid.
pacomartin
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May 30th, 2011 at 5:33:42 PM permalink
Quote: Doc

My wife and I visited Samana on a cruise ship in 1982. Someone recognized that such a beautiful bay could attract tourists, and they had built a nice pier and a resort hotel on a mountain nearby.



As I understand it, it is one of the few places you can see humpback whales relatively close to shore. Normally you must go substantially far to see to observe this species. Note that I am not talking about gray whales which come very close to the California shore.
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May 31st, 2011 at 12:38:07 AM permalink
Fecha: 31 de Mayo, 2011
Palabra del día: LUJURIA


Thanks Nareed for filling in my zapatos while I was away.

Today's word is lujaria = lust. In English lust can be a noun or a verb, but it seems in Spanish there is only an equivalent to the noun form. If you want to translate the verb then I think the best choice would be desear, which means to desire, but not necessarily in a sexual way.

So, let's have an ejemplo.



Ginger me llena de lujuria. = Ginger fills me with lust.
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May 31st, 2011 at 12:40:14 AM permalink
Maryanne me llena de el horny.
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pacomartin
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May 31st, 2011 at 6:22:11 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Fecha: 31 de Mayo, 2011
Palabra del día: LUJURIA



I saw La virgen de la Lujuria in San Diego and Arturo Ripstein made a personal appearance to discuss his movie. He is one of the better known artistic directors from Mexico.

RAE defines it as un deseo sexual desordenado e incontrolable (disordered and uncontrollable). It comes from Latin word luxus where obviously we get the word luxury.

In Middle English "lust" meant
"any source of pleasure or delight," also
"an appetite," also
"a liking for a person," also
"fertility" (of soil).

In the 16th century the word "lust" was chosen for biblical translations for "desire of the flesh", and it slowly lost it's more mild mannered definitions from it's use in the bible. The older meanings show up in the movie title "Lust for Life" about Vincent Van Gogh, and the word "lusty" still carries meaning of big appetite and joviality, but "lustful" is reserved primarily for "sexual desire".


I am not sure why there is not an equivalent verb in Spanish, but "desar" in the proper context is usually used.
Nareed
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May 31st, 2011 at 7:02:18 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Thanks Nareed for filling in my zapatos while I was away.



You're welcome.
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May 31st, 2011 at 10:51:26 AM permalink
Quote: pacomartin

I saw La virgen de la Lujuria in San Diego...



Thank you for not posting the movie poster directly on the site, and keeping things PG-13 around here. The link may come in handy if I make cola a future word of the day.
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Nareed
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May 31st, 2011 at 11:07:16 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Thank you for not posting the movie poster directly on the site, and keeping things PG-13 around here. The link may come in handy if I make cola a future word of the day.



You definitely should. That word ought to drive you crazy :P
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pacomartin
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May 31st, 2011 at 11:09:32 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Thank you for not posting the movie poster directly on the site, and keeping things PG-13 around here.



I am keeping it PG-13. Ripstein is probably the most honored director in Mexico, but his films can be very disturbing Nuevo Cine Mexicano.
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June 1st, 2011 at 7:42:00 AM permalink
Fecha: 1 de Junio, 2011
Palabra del día: GULA


The word for the day is gula = gluttony. A variant is Glotón = glutton. Another word for gluttony is glotonería. I'm not sure what the difference is, but suspect that gula specifically refers to food, while glotonería can be a excessive desire for anything. I'm sure Paco or Nareed can explain it much better.

Time for some ejemplos.

Tengo un problema de gula en el buffet. = I have a gluttony problem in the buffet.



El Skipper es un glotón de pasteles de crema de banano. = The Skipper is a glutton for banana creme pies.
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Nareed
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June 1st, 2011 at 7:46:52 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

I'm sure Paco or Nareed can explain it much better.



Sorry. Those are seldom used words. Offhand I can't recall using them. I must ahve, I just don't recall doing it.

Quote:

Tengo un problema gula en el buffet. = I have a gluttony problem in the buffet.



"...problema DE gula...."

Quote:

El Skipper es un glotón de pasteles de crema de banano. = The Skipper is a glutton for banana creme pies.



"El capitán es un glotón con los ..." That is, unless his given name is "Skipper." I always thought it was a title.
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pacomartin
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June 1st, 2011 at 8:19:02 AM permalink
Quote: Nareed

Quote:

Tengo un problema gula en el buffet. = I have a gluttony problem in the buffet.


"...problema DE gula...."



The rules of English grammar let us use all sorts of nouns and phrases as adjectives. In that way, Spanish isn't quite so flexible.

In English we may say, "a ten-year-old boy," in Spanish that becomes "a boy of ten years".

In English, we may say something like "a gold ring," using what is normally a noun, "gold," as an adjective. In Spanish you say "a ring of gold".

So we say "una muchacho de dies años" or "un anillo de oro".

You did the same thing. You used "gluttony" which is a noun, and made it an adjective. While that is legal in English, you need the preposition in Spanish.

Possession works the same way.
"Mike's house" is acceptable in English, but in Spanish you must literally translate "the house of Mike".

--------------
The same difficulty in translation is in the preposition "con" which is normally translated as "with". The sentence becomes "The skipper is a glutton with banana creme pies." But similar to "de" the preoposition "con" is more flexible than the English "with".

=============
Articles and prepositions are a real problem in Spanish since they are very important to clear sentences. However, they are very difficult since they don't have unique translations. In particular "por" and "para" are usually both translated as "for" in English. Sometimes you have to learn the verb-preposition pair.
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June 1st, 2011 at 8:34:39 AM permalink
Quote: Nareed

"...problema DE gula...."



The last few times I have used Google Translate to help with my translations. Since then, you've corrected me a lot less. I also would have used a "de" in this case, but Google omitted it. If there are any hard and fast rules about when you use a "de" between a noun and adjective, I'm all ears. So far I've just been going by feel. Another good question is why the two uses of de in pasteles de crema de banano, which is how Google translated banana creme pie.

Edit: I see that Paco addresses my question already above.

Quote: Nareed

"El capitán es un glotón con los ..." That is, unless his given name is "Skipper." I always thought it was a title.



His name on the show was Jonas Grumby, but I think that was only mentioned in the radio broadcast in the pilot episode. Since then, he has always been referred to as "the Skipper." While it isn't literally his name, it was used so often that I think it takes on the proper noun status of a name. I'd be interested to know of the Spanish translation of the show uses Skipper or Capitan.
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June 1st, 2011 at 8:38:33 AM permalink
Quote: pacomartin

Articles and prepositions are a real problem in Spanish since they are very important to clear sentences.



I'll tell you what I did when learning English: watch TV and/or movies in Spanish and read magazines and books in spanish. that's the best way to see and hear how the language is actually used.

BTW I let the Wizrd get away with "banano." It's correct, after all, but in Mexico the word elicits smiles. You'll be understood, but the word most often used is "plátano."

Oh, wait. I guess I didn't after all :P
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June 1st, 2011 at 8:46:49 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

The last few times I have used Google Translate to help with my translations.



Machine translations are no more than a first approximation. Now. in the past they were laughable.

Quote:

Since then, you've corrected me a lot less. I also would have used a "de" in this case, but Google omitted it. If there are any hard and fast rules about when you use a "de" between a noun and adjective, I'm all ears.



I'm not clear on any rules. Look for ten general examples and post them here (ten is a suggestion, five may do also)

Quote:

I'd be interested to know of the Spanish translation of the show uses Skipper or Capitan.



He was called "capitán" when addressed by someone, and "el capitán" when being referred to.

Capitán literally emans "captain" as in the military rank, but also as the commanding officer of a boat or ship, which is what I gather "skipper means in English. I know in the US Navy most warships have a Commander on top, smaller ships often have Lieutenants. I also know the Navy has a rank structure different from the other services'.
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June 1st, 2011 at 9:35:34 AM permalink
Quote: Nareed

Capitán literally emans "captain" as in the military rank, but also as the commanding officer of a boat or ship, which is what I gather "skipper means in English. I know in the US Navy most warships have a Commander on top, smaller ships often have Lieutenants. I also know the Navy has a rank structure different from the other services'.



Point taken. However, forgive me if I don't go back and edit my original sentence with the word Skipper. Someone with more nautical experience could speak to this better, but I think "skipper" is an informal way of saying Captain, and implies being in charge of a smaller boat. "Captain" sounds a lot more serious. The character on Gilligan's Island was usually friendly and easy going, except when he got angry at Gilligan, so "Skipper" fits him well. I think if you said the word skipper to any American between the ages of 40 and 60 an image of the Skipper would come immediately to mind. So, out of respect, I really hate to change it, as it loses something in the translation (I've always wanted to say that -- it sounds so snooty!).
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June 1st, 2011 at 10:23:56 AM permalink
Quote: Nareed

Nareed, sorry I accidentally messed up your post. -- Wiz



Accidentally or "accidentally"' Fess up! :P

Briefly, if you say to a mexican "The Skipper...." whiel showing them that photo, they'll think you're using el capitan's real name.

BTW I watched that show dubbed back in elementary school. A few years later I had a chance to watch it in English during Mexico's Golden Age of cable. Same thing with other shows I liked. That's when I really strated to hate dubbing.

But I digress...
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June 1st, 2011 at 10:46:31 AM permalink
Quote: Nareed

Watch TV and/or movies in Spanish and read magazines and books in spanish. that's the best way to see and hear how the language is actually used.

BTW I let the Wizrd get away with "banano." It's correct, after all, but in Mexico the word elicits smiles. You'll be understood, but the word most often used is "plátano."



Nareed, I don't know if you have seen the type of bananas in our supermarkets. They are picked green, and ripened in special rooms in the USA filled with ethylene gas. It gives them an unnatural bright yellow peel. In America the firmer, starchier fruit are called plantains. Although American's sometimes cook with bananas (most often in bread), it's not nearly as common as in Mexico.

----------------
One problem with machine translation, or dictionary translation is something called "word pair association". A culture naturally does it, but it isn't based on any hard reasons. For instance you could look up the word eccentric and find the following synonyms - aberrant, abnormal, anomalous, bizarre, capricious, characteristic, cockeyed, crazy, curious, droll, erratic, far out, flaky, freak, freakish, funny, idiosyncratic, irregular, kooky, nutty, odd, oddball, off the wall, off-center, offbeat, out in left field, outlandish, peculiar, quaint, queer, quirky, quizzical, singular, strange, uncommon, unconventional, unnatural, way out, weird, whimsical, wild, beat*, bent*, and funky* [* = informal/non-formal usage ].

But English speakers have a huge tendency to pair the word eccentric with the noun uncle. Whereas you tend to refer to a cousin with the same characteristics as oddball .

At the same time, you might like your cousin. If you are trying to convince a girl to go on a date with your cousin, you wouldn't use the word oddball, but you might use adjectives like whimsical, slightly outlandish, that he has droll sense of humor, or a unconventional viewpoint. Even English speakers would have trouble explaining why some adjectives can convey that someone is charming like a "Northern Exposure television series" character, while other adjectives like "bizarre" or "unnatural" convey that person as someone you would not want to run into in a secluded place.
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June 1st, 2011 at 11:11:58 AM permalink
Quote: pacomartin

Nareed, I don't know if you have seen the type of bananas in our supermarkets. They are picked green, and ripened in special rooms in the USA filled with ethylene gas. It gives them an unnatural bright yellow peel. In America the firmer, starchier fruit are called plantains. Although American's sometimes cook with bananas (most often in bread), it's not nearly as common as in Mexico.



I have. they look just like the ones we get here. Though here it's more common to sell them still a bit green, since they will ripen over a week or so.

I don't like bananas in my food. In fact, I don't like any kind of fruit served with any dish other than desert, and then I'm picky. So count your blessings. I do like banana bread and I love banana cream pie.
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June 1st, 2011 at 11:21:29 AM permalink
Quote: pacomartin

Nareed, I don't know if you have seen the type of bananas in our supermarkets. They are picked green, and ripened in special rooms in the USA filled with ethylene gas. It gives them an unnatural bright yellow peel. In America the firmer, starchier fruit are called plantains. Although American's sometimes cook with bananas (most often in bread), it's not nearly as common as in Mexico.


Another food question: How do Mexicans deal with having the same word -- limón -- for lemons AND limes? Aren't they different fruits? Or does nobody really request the yellow lemons there?
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June 1st, 2011 at 11:23:07 AM permalink
Quote: Nareed

I do like banana bread and I love banana cream pie.



Are you a glotón for it?
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June 1st, 2011 at 11:34:50 AM permalink
Quote: teddys

Another food question: How do Mexicans deal with having the same word -- limón -- for lemons AND limes? Aren't they different fruits? Or does nobody really request the yellow lemons there?



That's a complicated one.

Limón means the small, green or yellow-green, very sour citrus fruit known as lime in America. but there are varieties. The most common are agrio (sour) and sin semilla (seedless), both of which qualify as lime in the US. But other less common varieties include persa (persian) which is bigger, not so sour and looks more yellow than green.

Then there's something called lima. It's yellow, rather big, sort of sweet and sour, but not very juicy. You don't see it much. When I hear "lime" I think of lima (which also means nail or metal file, BTW).

So there.

We do make lemonade (limonada, imagine that) with the common lemons you call lime. Lemonade isn't very popular, but frozen in a popsicle it is a rather big seller. I like doing a little lemonade from time to time. I throw in some water, splenda and three or four whole limes cut in quarters, belnd until smooth, and strain the whole with the finest strainer you can get. Serve over ice. It goes well with vodka, too. But the result is less sweet and much more sour than American lemonade.

A mix of orange juice, water and sugar, BTW, is called naranjada.
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June 1st, 2011 at 9:30:42 PM permalink
Fecha: 2 de Juno, 2011
Palabra del día: dejar


I thought I would pick one word (I don't have to be the only one for today).

The verb "dejar" is a regular "ar" verb with some unusual idiomatic meanings. It is also a very common verb in conversation or on signs. It is defined as "to let", "to permit", "to allow", or "to leave.

Related words:
déjelo! is the imperitive mood compounded with the pronoun lo. It means "Let go!" or "leave it".
Question for Nareed: Google says you can also say "lo dejas!", but I've never heard anyone say it this way.
Question for Nareed 2: In English we often say "Let it go!" if we want to discontinue a line of conversation. I am not sure of the Spanish equvalent.


el dejo A related noun for "abandonment"
dejado / dejada A related adjective for "abandoned" or "dejected"

dejar caer a double infinitive "to let" and "to fall" translated as "to let fall" or "to drop"


Important idiomatic use of the verb with "de"
dejar de ... (infinitive of verb)
In this idiomatic usage, instead of permitting something, you are saying just the opposite. It now means "to stop" ... something


These patches can be useful to stop smoking.

Second example "dejar de masticar chicle" means "stop chewing the gum"

It is a curious translation since "dejar" means "allow, to let , to permit",
while the related nouns are about abandonment.
At the same time the idiomatic "dejar de" means to stop and to quit. Literally it is like you are saying "abandon your practice of chewing gum".

So if you see a sign that says "dejar de fumar", it does not mean you are permitted to smoke, but instead you must "abandon smoking" (i.e. you are not permitted to smoke).
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June 1st, 2011 at 10:39:54 PM permalink
Good word. I welcome the adición. Let's see what Nareed has to say. Even if Nareed can explain it, I'll enjoy torturing my Spanish tutor over why dejar can mean to permit and to forbid as well. Soy horrible.

Don't let this one interrupt a pattern I'm trying to do since Tuesday.

Quote: pacomartin

Fecha: 2 de Juno, 2011



Isn't it Junio?
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June 1st, 2011 at 11:46:58 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Good word. I welcome the adición. Let's see what Nareed has to say. Even if Nareed can explain it, I'll enjoy torturing my Spanish tutor over why dejar can mean to permit and to forbid as well. Soy horrible.

Don't let this one interrupt a pattern I'm trying to do since Tuesday.

Quote: pacomartin

Fecha: 2 de Juno, 2011



Isn't it Junio?


Yes, I misspelled it.

It ties in with your earlier question about when to use "de" which we usually translate by "of". In this particular idiomatic use, I can't think how you would use the English word "of".

Here are some other examples:
No puedo dejar de amarte =I can not stop loving you
No dejo amarte= I keep loving you

deja vivir = let live
dejar de vivir = stop living
vivo y deja vivir = live and let live

It's always puzzled me, and I have spent some time searching the web for a decent explanation, but usually sites say that is simply the idiom. It is a little like an English speaker saying "I let you to do some practice", and alternatively saying "I insist you let go of this practice" when they mean the opposite.

In Oaxaca they will teach you Spanish, but usually the teacher's don't know English. If they do know some English, the school does not permit them to use it.
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June 2nd, 2011 at 6:32:42 AM permalink
I don't think you need the de to change the meaning of dejar from permit to leave behind. Here are some ejemplos from spanishdict.com.

dejar a alguien en algún sitio -> to drop somebody off somewhere (con el coche)
dejar algo por imposible -> to give something up as a lost cause
dejar a alguien atrás -> to leave somebody behind
su marido la ha dejado -> her husband has left her
te dejo, tengo que irme -> I have to leave you now, I must go

Quote: Paco

At the same time the idiomatic "dejar de" means to stop and to quit. Literally it is like you are saying "abandon your practice of chewing gum".



I'm not one to question you, but based on other usages I would translate dejar de fumar as "you are able to stop smoking," rather than a command to stop.
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June 2nd, 2011 at 6:37:05 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

I don't think you need the de to change the meaning of dejar from permit to leave behind. Here are some ejemplos from



No voy a dejar que nadie te lastime. - I'm not going to let (Permit/Allow) anyone hurt you.
Dejame ir a la casa de Amanda. - Let (Permit/Allow) me go to Amanda's house!

It's a complicated verb. They do have Permitir and Abandonar as well which are identical to their English meanings.


Déjala aquí - Leave it here.

Déjala en paz - Leave her in peace. or Leave her alone.

Déjame ver - Let me see. Allow (permit) me to see.
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June 2nd, 2011 at 6:46:32 AM permalink
Quote: pacomartin

No dejo amarte= I keep loving you



Not quite.

No dejo amarte means "I don't allow to love you," which makes no sense. No dejo DE amarte means "I don't stop loving you."

Quote:

vivo y deja vivir = live and let live



Vive y deja vivir.

Your example says "I live and you let live."

Quote:

In Oaxaca they will teach you Spanish, but usually the teacher's don't know English. If they do know some English, the school does not permit them to use it.



That's quite absurd. My first try at learning English was with a native speaker who didn't know Spanish. I had mediocre results. I did a lot better with a native Spanish speaker who knew English well, and further knew how to explain the diferences in both languages. But then the man was a gifted teacher.
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