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Wizard
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May 14th, 2011 at 10:08:41 PM permalink
Quote: Nareed

Because the second example literally means "Me the queen like." You can't shorten it that way. the correct sentence is "yo le gusto a la reina."



I admit I butchered that sentence, but I think this goes towards the argument that gusto can be a verb. However, I think my tutor may feel differently. I don't think I'll know her position until Thursday. Sorry for causing so much of a fuss.
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pacomartin
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May 15th, 2011 at 1:10:57 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

I admit I butchered that sentence, but I think this goes towards the argument that gusto can be a verb. However, I think my tutor may feel differently. I don't think I'll know her position until Thursday. Sorry for causing so much of a fuss.



Frankly, I was taught it as an absolute, that it is never conjugated in the first and second person. And never as a transitive verb.

When you asked the question I looked it up in REAL ACADEMIA ESPAÑOLA . As you probably know there is no official organization that monitors English, but all European languages have academies that dictate what is the proper use of the language. There is a Latin American branch of Real Academia.

The entry says:
El sujeto es la causa del placer o la atracción, y la persona que lo siente se expresa mediante un complemento indirecto.
«Vos me gustás mucho» (Rovner Pareja [Arg. 1976]); {Argentine Spanish is relatively unique in Latin America}
«Le gustaban la buena música y los buenos libros» (Palou Carne [Esp. 1975]).
Esta es la construcción normal en el habla corriente.
What it says is that the normal construction is to use it as an intransitive verb.

But REAL ACADEMIA also states that gustar has limited use as a transitive verb for courtesies.

Como transitivo significa ‘querer o desear’ y su empleo es escaso fuera de fórmulas de cortesía:
«¿Gusta usted una cerveza?» (Victoria Casta [Méx. 1995]);
«—¿Le molesto si escucho las noticias? —Haga como guste» (Plaza Cerrazón [Ur. 1980]).
Unfortunately the examples they give are in the 3rd person, but the first is a question, and the 2nd example is more like a catchphrase (Do a you please) and is in the subjunctive mood.

So I am stumped. I have heard that the REAL ACADEMIA ESPAÑOLA is very reluctant to acknowledge changes in the language until they become universal, but the phrase en el habla corriente is a strong one meaning loosely run of the mill speech.
Nareed
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May 15th, 2011 at 5:29:13 AM permalink
Quote: pacomartin

When you asked the question I looked it up in REAL ACADEMIA ESPAÑOLA . As you probably know there is no official organization that monitors English, but all European languages have academies that dictate what is the proper use of the language. There is a Latin American branch of Real Academia.



Sure, but:

1) Just because an organization considers itself the arbiter of a language doesn't mean it is. After all, how many people even pay attention to the real academia? Maybe teachers and scholars, but not ordinary people. And language ultimately gets shaped by the way the vast majority of people come to use it.

2) The Spaniards speak Spanish funny anyway.
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Wizard
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May 15th, 2011 at 6:36:26 AM permalink
My tutor has mentioned the REAL ACADEMIA ESPAÑOLA many times in response to my many silly ¿por que? questions she can't answer. I keep an imaginary list of all my questions to submit to them.

Thanks for all the help with gustar. I think we've beaten that word to death. I'll have to do an easy one for today.
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May 15th, 2011 at 7:00:02 AM permalink
Fecha: 15 de Mayo
Palabra del dia: ESPOSA


The word of the dia has two meanings, wife and handcuffs. A question for the forum is whether this is a casualidad (coincidence).

Let's look at some ejemplos.

Mi esposa tiene cabello castaño = My wife has brown hair.
Estes esposas son demasiado agarrado = These handcuffs are too tight (there are various words for "tight," I'm not sure if this is the proper one).
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Nareed
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May 15th, 2011 at 8:55:41 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

The word of the dia has two meanings, wife and handcuffs.



Not quite.

Esposa means wife. Period. Nothing else.

Esposas can mean either wives or handcuffs.
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Wizard
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May 15th, 2011 at 9:11:16 AM permalink
Quote: Nareed

Esposa means wife. Period. Nothing else.



What would you call one half of a set of handcuffs in Spanish?
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May 15th, 2011 at 9:29:01 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

What would you call one half of a set of handcuffs in Spanish?


Not an answer, but this brought two old questions to mind:
(1) What is the sound of one hand clapping?
(2) How do you handcuff a one-armed man?
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May 15th, 2011 at 9:33:08 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

What would you call one half of a set of handcuffs in Spanish?



Esposas.

Sorry, that's just the way it is. If it makes you feel any better, the word análisis is also used as both plural and singular.
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pacomartin
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May 15th, 2011 at 10:00:11 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

A question for the forum is whether this is a casualidad (coincidence).



It is not a coincidence since they both ultimately come from the same Latin word spondere "to bind oneself, promise solemnly".

It's an idea explored in the classic NC-17 comedy ¡Átame!

Spondere gives us spouse, sponsor (someone we are bound to contractually), respond (to promise back), correspond( originally meant to be in agreement with), despondent (which originally meant to reverse a marriage proposal, but has evolved into losing will to live).

The Latin word praeservativum gives us
preservative (English),
preservativo (Spanish),
préservatif (French),
präservativ (German),
prezervativ (Romanian, Czech, Croatian),
preservativo (Italian, Portuguese),
preservativ (Slovenian),
prezerwatywa (Polish),
презерватив "prezervativ" (Russian, Serbian) and
preservatiu (Catalan).

So it is not a coincidence, but in English the word has a completely different meaning than in all the other languages. Look it up!
pacomartin
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May 15th, 2011 at 10:25:30 AM permalink
Quote: Nareed

The correct sentence is "yo le gusto a la reina."



Nareed,
I think what I want to know is how often do you say gusto as a verb, gustas, or gustamos? I don't want to know if it is allowed, but how often do you hear it?
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May 15th, 2011 at 10:39:03 AM permalink
Thanks for going beyond the call of duty, as always.

Quote: pacomartin

preservativo (Spanish)



I find both the English usage of preservative (something to make food last longer) or a condom. Of course, I second usage will be easier to commit to memory.
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pacomartin
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May 15th, 2011 at 10:53:39 AM permalink
While I am sure both translations are in the dictionary, the secondary translation is more common in conversation. In a similar manner "huevos" should be carefully used outside of very clear use such as "Huevos Rancheros".
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May 15th, 2011 at 11:03:36 AM permalink
Quote: pacomartin

In a similar manner "huevos" should be carefully used outside of very clear use such as "Huevos Rancheros".



Nareed and I were discussing this via PM a while back. My tutor says that huevo is perfectly fine, but huevón can mean lazy, or a "bad word" as she put it. My investigation led me to believe the "bad word" was slang for testicle.
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Nareed
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May 15th, 2011 at 12:52:57 PM permalink
Quote: pacomartin

Nareed,
I think what I want to know is how often do you say gusto as a verb, gustas, or gustamos? I don't want to know if it is allowed, but how often do you hear it?



Not very often.
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pacomartin
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May 15th, 2011 at 4:28:17 PM permalink
Nareed

I met a woman who was travel through Mexico. She said she couldn't be bothered to learn conjugation so she simply said all her verbs as
estoy/estás/está/estamos/están saliendo/tacado/usando/utilizado etc. (in the present).

She knew she sounded funny, but she said she was invariably understood.

I have never completely understood how you decide when to say "estoy hablando" instead of "hablo" or "estoy vistando" instead of "visito". It's easy enough to read, but the rules are different in English. We make far more use of this use of the progressive than you do in Spanish.
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May 15th, 2011 at 4:58:29 PM permalink
Quote: pacomartin

I met a woman who was travel through Mexico. She said she couldn't be bothered to learn conjugation so she simply said all her verbs as
estoy/estás/está/estamos/están saliendo/tacado/usando/utilizado etc. (in the present).

She knew she sounded funny, but she said she was invariably understood.



I like her idea. Personally I have trouble with everything except the present tense. Not that I know most exceptions to the general rules for the present tense.

What I do is make my best effort in the present tense and then point backwards for the past tense, and forward for future.

Question for you guys. Can you give me one each of an AR, ER, and IR verbs that follow the general conjugation rules for all tenses with NO exceptions? I ask because I need to review the other tenses and would like have some nice steady verbs to use as a basis.
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pacomartin
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May 15th, 2011 at 5:16:43 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard


Question for you guys. Can you give me one each of an AR, ER, and IR verbs that follow the general conjugation rules for all tenses with NO exceptions? I ask because I need to review the other tenses and would like have some nice steady verbs to use as a basis.


hablar, comer, and vivir have no exceptions

Mexicans hardly ever use the future tense, but it is fairly common in Spain.
The preterite perfect is not used much anywhere.

The simple present (indicative mood) is often translated into English as the present progressive.


The Futuro perifrastico (going to) is a way of talking about the future but using the present tense. The link is for Spanish speakers learning English, but the concept is the same.

Use the conjugations of ir (voy, vas, va, vamos, van) - followed by "a" - followed by infinitive and you have the futuro perifrastico.

voy a pintar I am going to paint
No Te Voy A Perdonar I am not going to forgive
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May 15th, 2011 at 6:26:02 PM permalink
Thanks Paco!
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May 16th, 2011 at 6:49:39 AM permalink
Fecha: 16 de Mayo
Palabra del día: TRIGO


For lack of a better idea, I'm going to look at some street names from my beloved Isla Vista, California for some more words of the day. I'll generally start at the ocean and work my way north.

The first two streets are rather easy, and I think most Americans would be able to figure out:

Del Playa = By the beach. It should be noted that this is bad Spanish, because del=de el, but playa is a feminine word, and el is the masculine form of "the." There are some exceptions to rule about words ending in "a" being feminine, like día, which is masculine, but I'm pretty sure playa is not one of those exceptions.

Sabado Tarde = Saturday afternoon. I like the sound of this one. I lived on this street the summer after graduation.

So, finally, the word of the day trigo = wheat. It may also mean grains in general, or someones affairs (as in don't mess in my affairs). I'll await the real Spanish speakers to chime in on these other uses.

For your tarea (homework), can you give me a sentence en Español using trigo?
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May 16th, 2011 at 6:54:28 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

So, finally, the word of the day trigo = wheat. I may also mean grains in general, or someones affairs (as in don't mess in my affairs). I'll await the real Spanish speakers to chime in on these other uses.



I've never heard or read it used as anything other than wheat. For grains in general you say "granos" or "granos y semillas."
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Nareed
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May 16th, 2011 at 6:57:44 AM permalink
Quote: pacomartin

I have never completely understood how you decide when to say "estoy hablando" instead of "hablo" or "estoy vistando" instead of "visito".



It depends on what you're doing. if you're int he pone with someone and I ask what you're doing, would you say "I'm talking with Joe," or "I talk to Joe"? The first example means "Estoy hablando con Joe," the second means "Hablo con Joe."
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May 16th, 2011 at 7:06:58 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Del Playa = By the beach. It should be noted that this is bad Spanish, because del=de el, but playa is a feminine word, and el is the masculine form of "the." There are some exceptions to rule about words ending in "a" being feminine, like día, which is masculine, but I'm pretty sure playa is not one of those exceptions.



I wonder if this used to be Calle De la Playa and it got shortened incorrectly. There is a La playa field in Santa Barbara.

I can't find anything on the internet on how they came up with this grammatically incorrect phrase. Nice catch Wiz.
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May 16th, 2011 at 8:20:33 AM permalink
Quote: Nareed

It depends on what you're doing. if you're int he pone with someone and I ask what you're doing, would you say "I'm talking with Joe," or "I talk to Joe"? The first example means "Estoy hablando con Joe," the second means "Hablo con Joe."


I guess I'm not being clear.
Normally, in English you would not say "I talk to Joe" without a qualifying phrase like "I talk to Joe,every morning". The phrase "I talk to Joe" by itself is incomplete without some added description of frequency or habitual action.
So if you are thinking in English you have a tendency to translate most simple phrases as "Estoy ..." or "Esta ..." with a present participle.
But native Spanish speakers do sometimes use the simple present without any qualifying phrase.
Nareed
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May 16th, 2011 at 5:32:58 PM permalink
Quote: pacomartin

So if you are thinking in English you have a tendency to translate most simple phrases as "Estoy ..." or "Esta ..." with a present participle.
But native Spanish speakers do sometimes use the simple present without any qualifying phrase.



I am fluent in two languages, and highly ignorant of the formal rules of grammar of both. As for grammatical terminology, I slept through Spanish class. So:

In Spanish you describe present actions by saying "Estoy haciendo tal cosa" or "Que llame más tarde. Estoy muy ocupada." (English "I'm doing this and that thing." and "Tell him to call later. I'm very busy.")

You'd say things like "I talk to..." mostly in the context of describing actions you usually take. For example: "Cuando viajo a Las Vegas juego video poquer" or "Todas las mañanas corro diez kilometros." ("When I travel to Las vegas I play video poker" "I run 6 miles every morning")

But when describing a present action it's as you say "Estoy..."
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May 16th, 2011 at 8:22:01 PM permalink
Quote: Nareed

I am fluent in two languages, and highly ignorant of the formal rules of grammar of both. As for grammatical terminology, I slept through Spanish class.



It's very common to forget your grammar lessons regarding your first lesson. If you ask an English speaker to conjugate a regular English verb, and to list ten irregular verbs he will usually stare at you blankly. But he will use them correctly. But the normal way people study a foreign language is to get immersed in grammar.

Let me quote the following Introductory Spanish

Quote: Introduction to Spanish


Thus ahora ella canta would usually be translated as now she is singing.
Note that it is possible in Spanish to say ella está cantando, which is a word-for-word translation of the English she is singing.
But that form isn't used nearly as often in Spanish as it is in English.



So going from Spanish to English if you read, ahora ella canta you don't translate it to She sings now or Now she sings since the simple present is awkard English.

My problem is going from English to Spanish. I would want to say ella está cantando most of the time since it is how I say it in English. But the warning in this lesson (which I've heard dozens of times) , says this form isn't used nearly as often in Spanish as it is in English.

Now you used that progressive form twice in your example, but both times you seemed to be doing it in a sentence where there is some personal emphasis.
Nareed
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May 17th, 2011 at 7:26:09 AM permalink
Quote: pacomartin

So going from Spanish to English if you read, ahora ella canta you don't translate it to She sings now or Now she sings since the simple present is awkard English.



Yes, you do, provided you use whole sentences and not fragments. Example:

"Laura inició su carrera como solista. Ahora ella canta con un grupo." "Laura started her career as a solo artist. Now she sings for a band."

See?

Quote:

My problem is going from English to Spanish. I would want to say ella está cantando most of the time since it is how I say it in English. But the warning in this lesson (which I've heard dozens of times) , says this form isn't used nearly as often in Spanish as it is in English.



Your problem lies in going from English to Spanish. I may have mentioned my english teacher. He was great. Among his many tips for mastering a foreign language, is that you should also learn to think in the language you're using. That's the way to fluency. If you keep thinking in your native tongue and translating, well, it won't come out right and it's a lot of mental work.

Naturally first you need to learn the target language, at least a little of it, before you can apply this advice. But within a limited vocabulary you can still do it.
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May 17th, 2011 at 7:53:22 AM permalink
Fecha: 17 de Mayo
Palabra del día: NIDO


The word of the day also comes from Isla Vista. El nido=the nest.

El Nido Lane has a special place in my heart. It was where I lived my last year at UCSB. Like most Isla Vista apartments, it was small, and with six guy living in it, indeed seemed like crowded nest. It was a great location. Close enough to the ocean to hear the waves, and just one apartment unit over from the campus. My roommate, Kent, was my favorite of all my five college roommates. Here are some pictures from the El Nido nest.


Looking east down El Nido lane. As usual, finding a parking space was not easy. That Toyota camper belonged to one my six apartment mates.


This is me juggling on the "balcony." My five apartment mates and I shared the second floor (unit B).


The alley next to the nest. Another example of the tight parking situation.
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May 17th, 2011 at 11:14:53 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Fecha: 17 de Mayo
Palabra del día: NIDO

The word of the day also comes from Isla Vista. El nido=the nest.



A very old word where the English word comes from common ancestor to both the Latin and the Anglos -Saxon words. In Latin it is "nidus" in Anglo Saxon it is "nistan" but both come from an older word Proto Indo European (PIE) "nizdo". The PIE are the prehistoric people that lived on the steppes of present day Russian-Ukraine who eventually formed the European, Turkish, Iranian, Mesopotamian, and Indus Valley. They were the founders of civilization, writing and mathematics



In English the word nest is partly ne like in netherworld or "down" world and st as in "sit". So a "nest" is where you sit down.
In Latin "nidus" is also literally a nest.

In Spanish it is a masculine noun (which goes against your initial guess)
"caer del nido" - literally "to fall into the nest", but in English you are more likely to to "come down to earth"
"manchar el propio nido" - " to foul one's own nest" but manchar taken more literally as "to spot" or "to stain"
"nido de abeja" literally "nest of bees" but with meaning of a "honeycomb pattern"
"nido de amor" - love-nest
"nido de víboras" - "nest of vipers"
"nido de ametralladoras" - machine-gun nest
"un nido de ladrónes" - "a nest [den] of thieves"

There was a short lived attempt at making Spanish language films in America that would also appeal to the gringo market. The initial attempt starred a lot of good looking Mexican telenovela stars and was called Ladrón que roba a ladrón (Spanish or English trailer) . the story is about a duo who rob a corrupt Latino who preys on ignorant immigrant cancer patients with Agua de Dios. Since professional thieves won't help them they hire a bunch of immigrants (all of whom are beautiful telenovela stars).

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May 17th, 2011 at 3:30:44 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Fecha: 17 de Mayo
Palabra del día: NIDO


In Tucson, AZ, there is a fabulous Mexican restaurant called Mi Nidito (My Little Nest). They always served excellent Mexican food. As an example of how popular the place is, they do not take reservations, and the wait is usually at least one hour, during off times. It is not uncommon to wait as long as two hours for a table during normal dinner times.

When Bill Clinton was president, he ate at Mi Nidito. They hoped he would visit a second time, but I don't believe he did.

I lived in Tucson at the time Bill Clinton ate there. I really feel like the visit of the president went to the owners' heads. They made a "Presidential Table" and also a "Presidential Plate", which is supposedly what Bill ordered when he visited.

Still, the food there is pretty spectactular, and anytime I make it down to Tucson, I like to try and eat there. But sometimes the wait really annoys me.

This has nothing to do with Spanish words, other than the fact that the word of the day reminded me of the restaurant. :)
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May 17th, 2011 at 3:43:53 PM permalink
Quote: konceptum

In Tucson, AZ, there is a fabulous Mexican restaurant called Mi Nidito (My Little Nest).



Thanks for the recommendation. That should be easy to remember the next time I'm in Tuscon, which is not that often I'm afraid. I'm going to ask to sit at the Clinton table.
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May 17th, 2011 at 3:45:24 PM permalink
Good luck! That table has always been busy every time I've been there since. Then again, I've never specifically asked to sit at that table.
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May 17th, 2011 at 3:47:07 PM permalink
Quote: konceptum

Good luck! That table has always been busy every time I've been there since. Then again, I've never specifically asked to sit at that table.



I will not be rebuffed, for I am easily starstruck.
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May 17th, 2011 at 4:05:39 PM permalink
Chapala's (1965) in Las Vegas looks similar to Mi Nidito (1952) but no birria.

President’s Plate.$12.75
Bean Tostada, Birria Taco, Chile Relleno, Chicken Enchilada and Beef Tamale
Nareed
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May 17th, 2011 at 4:11:39 PM permalink
Quote: pacomartin

Chicken Enchilada



That's redundant. Enchiladas are made with chicken by default. Usually you mention what sauce they're made with: red, green, mole, morita, etc. You can make them with cheese instead of chicken, but then they're cheese enchiladas.

So a restaurant here would list them as "Enchiladas verdes." If they're made with cheese, they'd be "Enchiladas verdes de queso."
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pacomartin
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May 17th, 2011 at 4:15:46 PM permalink
Quote: Nareed

That's redundant. Enchiladas are made with chicken by default. Usually you mention what sauce they're made with: red, green, mole, morita, etc. You can make them with cheese instead of chicken, but then they're cheese enchiladas.So a restaurant here would list them as "Enchiladas verdes." If they're made with cheese, they'd be "Enchiladas verdes de queso."



I just took it from their menu. El Nidito is for gringos. Now, I've eaten in the Guadalajara Super Birriería .
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May 17th, 2011 at 4:16:06 PM permalink
Speaking of Mexican restaurants, is there is dish one can use as a litmus test for whether they serve legitimate Mexican food or the Gringofied stuff most places do. Menudo perhaps?

For example, a good litmus test for Chinese food is chicken's feet and duck's feet. Big-eyed customers never order that.
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May 17th, 2011 at 4:30:57 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Speaking of Mexican restaurants, is there is dish one can use as a litmus test for whether they serve legitimate Mexican food or the Gringofied stuff most places do. Menudo perhaps?

For example, a good litmus test for Chinese food is chicken's feet and duck's feet. Big-eyed customers never order that.



You could ask for "manitas de puerco." I've never eaten them and never intend to. They're raw, as far as I know, pickled pig's feet <yuck>. There's also cow's feet, commonly called just "pata." I've never tried it and never will, either. I've no idea if it's cooked or not, but it's part of the hoof. It looks like soft, translucent, plastified gel. You know the joke about what goes into hot dogs, right? Here it's sold in tostadas.

And that's far from the grossest stuff available, if you can believe it.

Seriously, I've no idea. I've never eaten at a Mexican restaurant in the US. Not once. I just fail to see the point of doing so. Either it won't be authentic, which means it probably won't be good, or it will be, which means I could get it back home. So why bother?
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pacomartin
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May 17th, 2011 at 4:42:04 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Speaking of Mexican restaurants, is there is dish one can use as a litmus test for whether they serve legitimate Mexican food or the Gringofied stuff most places do. Menudo perhaps?

For example, a good litmus test for Chinese food is chicken's feet and duck's feet. Big-eyed customers never order that.



I can't think of one, but here is some very authentic food. If it's on the menu, it's usually authentic.

Torta Ahogada a Guadalajaran specialty:Roast pork in a salty bollilo (crusty bread), "drowned" in a spicy chile arbol-based sauce with pickled onions and lime.
Birria
Cochinita Pibil (orange peel and annato rubbed pork shoulder wrapped in banana leaves and slowly roasted, served with spanish rice, pickled onions and black beans)
Chilaquiles breakfast food
Queso Fundido con Chorizo
Mole especially if they have choices beyond Mole Poblano
Tacos Al Pastor requires some extra effort. Any place that serves them is probably very authentic.



Your side of town has fewer Mexicans, but Lindo Michoacan is good.

Tlayudas are wonderful Oaxacan food which are sometimes sold as "Mexican pizzas". They often include Tasajo (kind of a beef jerky).



Chapulines are a delicious delicacy from different sizes of grasshoppers with garlic, lime juice and salt containing extract of agave worms, and possibly toasted with chilis, but they are hard to find outside of Los Angeles. They are pretty much a novelty in America or even in northern Mexico, but they are a staple in the deep south. Chapulines is an Zapotec word and is not Spanish for "grasshopper".
Nareed
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May 17th, 2011 at 4:50:02 PM permalink
Quote: pacomartin

Torta Ahogada a Guadalajaran specialty:Roast pork in a salty bollilo (crusty bread), "drowned" in a spicy chile arbol-based sauce with pickled onions and lime.



You need a glove to eat ir properly, too. The alternativces are to use a knife and fork, or to spend the next two weeks cleaning the space under fingertips and finger nails.

Quote:

Tacos Al Pastor requires some extra effort. Any place that serves them is probably very authentic.



To be really authentic they must also serve gringas, if you'll pardon the irony.
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May 17th, 2011 at 4:50:46 PM permalink
Quote: pacomartin

Your side of town has fewer Mexicans, but Lindo Michoacan is good.



Thanks for the advice. Is the Lindo Michoacan connected to the Bonito Michoacan? As a reminder, the post-Wizard challenge dinner is planned there for 5/24.
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May 17th, 2011 at 5:55:30 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Is the Lindo Michoacan connected to the Bonito Michoacan?



Yes, they are the same owner. They have four locations in Las Vegas area.

The Parillada Mixta ($32 for two) looks excellent. Carnitas Michoacanas (cooked with orange slices) is a good regional dish. Birria de Chivo (goat stew) is comfort food and should be a good bet. Menudo is typically served on weekends. If you are going to get tacos, mix in some chorizo with carne asada and pollo.

If you need Michoacan trivia in case the owner stops by:
Michoacan with it's capital of Morelia is about 180 miles from the Guadalajara airport (cheap flights nonstop from Vegas).

Lake Patzcuaro with it's island town of Janitzio populated with Purepecha Indians is the best known focal point of the state of Michoacan. This is the best place to go as a tourist since it is like Lake Tahoe with good food. The owner is from about 50 miles outside of Patzcuaro from a small mountain town.
Cute tourist video of Patzcuaro, with terrible Spanish pronounciation.


The elaborate green pottery is the best known of Michoacan crafts.


The photo is of the cathedral in Morelia, the capital city of Michoacan which is very near Patzcuaro.


NY Times documentary on Monarch butterflies which winter in a remote corner of Michoacan
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May 18th, 2011 at 6:24:13 AM permalink
Fecha: 18 de Mayo
Palabra del día: PASADO


Today's word again comes to us from Isla Vista, California.

Pasado = past

Much like the English word "past," pasado can be used as either a noun or an adjective.

As a noun, pasado can mean the past. For examle Ud. sólo vive en el pasado = You always live in the past.

As a adjective, pasado is the past participle (a verb used as an adjective) of the verb pasar, which is a generally means to pass through something.

Estuve enfermo el mes pasado = I was sick the last month. Corrected, thx Nareed

There may be other uses as well. By the way, pasado is not to be confused with posada, which means an inn.
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May 18th, 2011 at 6:49:15 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Fue enfermo el mes pasado = I was sick the last month.



"Estuve enfermo el mes pasado."

You actually said "Last month was sick."
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pacomartin
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May 18th, 2011 at 10:29:46 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard


Estuve enfermo el mes pasado = I was sick the last month. Corrected, thx Nareed



estar in Spanish comes from same root that gives us status and station in English
ser and soy, eres,es, somos, son, and fui, fuiste, fue, fuimos, fueron comes from the same root that gives us essential in English

So in addition to correcting your person from 3rd to 1st, Nareed changed your verb because you want to indicate your status last month, not your essential nature.

In general you are using past preterite estuve instead of past imperfect estaba because the status of being sick is now completed.

==============
Notice that fui, fuieste, fue, fuimos, fueron is the past preterite tense of both "ser" - to be (essentially) and "ir" - "to go"


NOTE: The language weakness here is in English. The verb "to be" (am,is,are, was, were, and being) in addition to being highly irregular also acquired several different meanings over the last few millenium. There is a school of thought dating back to the 1930's that says that we should eliminate "to be" as a device to clarify thinking and strengthen writing. However, eliminating the verb is extremely difficult and requires much longer sentences.
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May 18th, 2011 at 3:06:56 PM permalink
Speaking of pasado, it has another meaning (surprise!). Now, they say, they being me and my late English teacher among others, that one real test of the mastery of a foreign langauge is being able to understand word play. See if you can deduce the meaning from this short joke:

Narrador: ...una mujer atrapada por su pasado.

Mujer: ¡Suéltame, pasado! (slaps a man's face)

The joke is a bit by Argentinian comedy-music group Les Luthiers, from a piece called "Suite Televisiva de Pierre Perez Pizzner"

Oh, I am mean!
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pacomartin
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May 18th, 2011 at 4:53:00 PM permalink
Quote: Nareed

See if you can deduce the meaning from this short joke:



I think you made it a little too short.
Quote: Les Luthiers, Hacen Muchas Gracias de Nada


MM: Quien más ha reflexionado sobre la música para televisión, sea el compositor, Pierre Pérez Pitzner, autor del libro titulado "La corchea y el orticón, interacción y propuesta". A dicho libro pertenece la célebre frase que dice: "De cada diez personas que ven televisión... cinco... son la mitad". Escucharemos a continuación, de Pierre Pérez Pitzner, su "Suite televisiva Opus 83", también llamada "La tanda", para recitantes, coro y pequeño conjunto instrumental.

CORO: Televicio

DR: Televicio.

MM: La mejor programación
Este Sábado no se aparte de Televicio.

DR: A las 15:00 en "Cine de estreno"
"La Indomable"

MM: La Indomable, una mujer atrapada por su pasado.

JM: "Suéltame pasado!!!"


MM: La Indomable, una mujer que tuvo que enfrentar el violento mundo de los hombres.

DR: Pero nadie pudo con la Indomable.

MM: El Sábado a las 15:00 la Indomable estará en su pantalla.

DR: Si ella quiere.

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May 18th, 2011 at 8:35:32 PM permalink
Quote: pacomartin

I think you made it a little too short.



I think you're skirting the question.

But yes, I was at work, and in the first place I haven't heard that album in years. It's not as good as "Cartas de Color" or "Mastropiero que Nunca," but the TV parody is very effective.

Where's you find the transcript? I'd love to get my hands on their full works someday.
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May 18th, 2011 at 8:51:57 PM permalink
Quote: Nareed

Where's you find the transcript? I'd love to get my hands on their full works someday.

full transcript
video of routine
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May 18th, 2011 at 9:08:06 PM permalink
Thanks!
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