Thread Rating:

pacomartin
pacomartin
Joined: Jan 14, 2010
  • Threads: 649
  • Posts: 7895
May 24th, 2011 at 8:45:16 AM permalink
Quote: Nareed

You've managed to use I word I dind't know.



Real Academia Española ©: ábrego. (Del lat. afrĭcus). m. Viento templado y húmedo del sudoeste, que trae las lluvias.

It seems to be a word from Spain, and not common in Latin America. The word is not in "RAE Diccionario panhispánico de dudas". It is a street in Santa Barbara.

It is a surname in Mexico, one shared by a popular weather girl
Wizard
Administrator
Wizard
Joined: Oct 14, 2009
  • Threads: 1474
  • Posts: 25954
May 24th, 2011 at 9:13:36 AM permalink
Quote: pacomartin

It is a surname in Mexico, one shared by a popular weather girl.



Los pechos son hermosos. corrected, thx Nareed

Why is it that ALL weather girls on Spanish television seem absolutely gorgeous? What happens to all the male, and average-looking female, meteorologists south of the border?
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. -- Carl Sagan
pacomartin
pacomartin
Joined: Jan 14, 2010
  • Threads: 649
  • Posts: 7895
May 24th, 2011 at 10:12:59 AM permalink

Well, this Greek weather girl is pretty as well. I mean you can get weather predictions from a teletype machine. Why not?
Doc
Doc
Joined: Feb 27, 2010
  • Threads: 46
  • Posts: 7281
May 24th, 2011 at 10:59:13 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Why is it that ALL weather girls on Spanish television seem absolutely gorgeous?


In the '60s, pop radio stations frequently gave 15-seconds-or-so weather reports. The widely-used term for these was "weather check". One radio station in the Tampa/St. Pete area had the announcements made in a high-pitched, female, baby-doll voice. They referred to her as their "weather chick". Today, that kind of nickname would probably be considered too non-PC for regular use on an Anglo station, but it seems that Spanish TV may lean the other way. I don't speak any Spanish, so I don't watch those stations, but I have caught glimpses of a few Latino soaps while channel surfing. My impression is that they try to have the action hotter than on the Anglo soaps.
Wizard
Administrator
Wizard
Joined: Oct 14, 2009
  • Threads: 1474
  • Posts: 25954
May 25th, 2011 at 7:14:33 AM permalink
Fecha: 25 de Mayo
Palabra del día: repugnante


In honor of the Wizard of Vegas challenge, the word of the day is REPUGNANTE. You can probably guess correctly what it means. Yes, it means disgusting, repugnant, repulsive, loathsome. Take you pick.

Let's have an ejemplo.

Comiendo cien McPiezas de pollo es repugnante. = Eating one hundred McPieces of chicken is disgusting.

I'm far from certain this is a good translation, and will await Nareed's corrections. In particular I have doubts about:

1. Should I use comer instead of comiendo? It seems to me in other cases when you're making a general statement about nobody in particular that you don't conjugate the verb. Still, going word by word, comiendo seems right for eatING.

2. Putting the Mc in front of Piezas was a joke, please don't deduct points for that. It should be noted that the word for "nugget" (like a gold nugget) in Spanish is pepita. However, I'm pretty sure the McDonalds in Mexico call the McNuggets piezas (pieces).
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. -- Carl Sagan
Nareed
Nareed
Joined: Nov 11, 2009
  • Threads: 373
  • Posts: 11413
May 25th, 2011 at 7:24:59 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

1. Should I use comer instead of comiendo? It seems to me in other cases when you're making a general statement about nobody in particular that you don't conjugate the verb. Still, going word by word, comiendo seems right for eatING.



Yes. It should be "comer 100...." etc.

Quote:

2. Putting the Mc in front of Piezas was a joke, please don't deduct points for that. It should be noted that the word for "nugget" (like a gold nugget) in Spanish is pepita. However, I'm pretty sure the McDonalds in Mexico call the McNuggets piezas (pieces).



Actually in Mexico McDonalds calls them McNuggets. Other joints have their own names, but few translate them to Spanish. At the supermarket you can buy frozen "nuggets de pollo" of several brands, including local ones like Bachoco.

The pronunciation changes to something like noogets, though, and sometimes the word si spelled "nuguets."

"Pepita" is a good literal translation, Indeed a gold nugget in spanish is a "pepita de oro." But pepita is also the word for pumpkin seeds and other similar snack seeds like sunflower. Had McDonalds tried to translate that menu item, it might have flopped.

You could search for "McDonalds Mexico" and access the site and view the menu in Spanish. You'll find the Big mac here is called "Big Mac," too, or however that's spelled.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
Nareed
Nareed
Joined: Nov 11, 2009
  • Threads: 373
  • Posts: 11413
May 25th, 2011 at 7:31:14 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Los pechos son hermoso.



You missed the plural on the adjective., "los pechos son hermosos"

But that means "the breasts are beautiful." Since you mean a particular person, you should say "sus pechos...2 meaning "her breasts..."
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
Wizard
Administrator
Wizard
Joined: Oct 14, 2009
  • Threads: 1474
  • Posts: 25954
May 25th, 2011 at 7:46:43 AM permalink
Thanks for the corrections.

I did check out the McDonalds Mexico web site and they indeed call them McNuggets. They don't even put chicken or pollo with it. How would somebody unfamiliar with the menu know what it is a nugget of?

As a nod to Pulp Fiction, Mexico calls a Quarter Pounder a Quarto de Libra = quarter of a pound. However, as we all learned from Samuel L. Jackson, in France they call a Quarter Pounder a "Royale with Cheese." I think they actually call it a Royal Cheese. I'm not sure if they use the English words or if this is translated from French. My question is why does Mexico use the word for pound and France doesn't? Mexico is on the metric system too.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. -- Carl Sagan
Nareed
Nareed
Joined: Nov 11, 2009
  • Threads: 373
  • Posts: 11413
May 25th, 2011 at 7:53:11 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

As a nod to Pulp Fiction, Mexico calls a Quarter Pounder a Quarto de Libra = quarter of a pound.
[snip!]
My question is why does Mexico use the word for pound and France doesn't? Mexico is on the metric system too.



"Cuarto de libra."

Many products are sold in Imperial units. Paint is typically sold by the gallon, for example, and I think screws and nails are sized in fractions of an inch. Three ring binders, which we use up like toilet paper at the office, are sized in inches, too.

I've no idea why. Almost everything is sold in metric units.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
Wizard
Administrator
Wizard
Joined: Oct 14, 2009
  • Threads: 1474
  • Posts: 25954
May 25th, 2011 at 7:54:09 AM permalink
Quote: Nareed

You missed the plural on the adjective., "los pechos son hermosos." But that means "the breasts are beautiful."



Thanks for the corrections on that. Eventually I'll compose a sentence in Spanish with no errors.

The guy who cleans my piscina (swimming pool) says that hermoso also means big. He said if you called a woman hermoso should would be insulted, because it would be calling her fat. However, I can't find that usage of hermoso in my Spanish dictionary. I asked him about Hermosa Beach, California. He said they call it that because it is a BIG beach. In case you're wondering, he is from Nicaragua. That is why I chose hermoso for my comment on Paco's picture. Is there any truth to his usage of the word?

By the way, I also asked him why some people call a swimming pool an alberca. He said they only do that in Mexico, and it means any kind of container of water, even a pothole on the street. True or false?
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. -- Carl Sagan
pacomartin
pacomartin
Joined: Jan 14, 2010
  • Threads: 649
  • Posts: 7895
May 25th, 2011 at 8:42:55 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Should I use comer instead of comiendo? It seems to me in other cases when you're making a general statement about nobody in particular that you don't conjugate the verb. Still, going word by word, comiendo seems right for eatING.



I hope these longer grammatical explanations are helping. In English we use the present participle for progressive tenses like "I am eating chidken". In Spanish you do the same thing "Estoy comiendo pollo".

In any language sometimes we want to "name an activity" or we want to make a noun out of a verb (formally called a gerund). In English we have a choice between using the "-ing" form or the "to ..." form. While both are comprehensible, the infinitive form is usually reserved for well known phrases like "To err is human, To forgive is divine", and if we want to sound lofty. For more ordinary uses in English we tend to go to the "-ing" form of a verb. "Eating 100 pieces of chicken is disgusting".

In Spanish, if we are forming a gerund, you must use the infinitive. While "To eat 100 pieces of chicken is disgusting" is very understandable in English, it is not our first choice in phrasing. In Spanish you must use the infinitive.

So while "reading is good" and "to read is good" are both acceptable in English, "leer es bueno" is the only way to express this sentiment in Spanish. It is a very common mistake for English speakers to say leyendo es bueno since they are literally translating the gerund form from English.

The phrase "seeing is believing" translates to "ver es creer" or "to see is to believe".
Nareed
Nareed
Joined: Nov 11, 2009
  • Threads: 373
  • Posts: 11413
May 25th, 2011 at 9:45:33 AM permalink
SHort explanations:

I've never heard of hermoso/hermosa used for anything other than beautiful

Alberca may be used only ni Mexico, but it reffers to swiming pools. Period. Nothing else.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
Wizard
Administrator
Wizard
Joined: Oct 14, 2009
  • Threads: 1474
  • Posts: 25954
May 25th, 2011 at 10:33:52 AM permalink
Quote: Nareed

SHort explanations:

I've never heard of hermoso/hermosa used for anything other than beautiful

Alberca may be used only ni Mexico, but it reffers to swiming pools. Period. Nothing else.



Thanks. Perhaps he isn't the best one to be giving me Spanish lessons. However, he was quite clear that the day laborers here from Mexico will say things like Tráeme una alberca de agua = Bring me a bucket of water. Or, La calle tiene muchas albercas = The street has lots of potholes. Based on his tone, and other comments, I think he was trying to drive home the point that he felt they spoke horrible Spanish. Perhaps he heard just once instance of a misuse of the word, and blamed it on a whole class of people. There seems to be a lot of elitism here about the language.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. -- Carl Sagan
pacomartin
pacomartin
Joined: Jan 14, 2010
  • Threads: 649
  • Posts: 7895
May 25th, 2011 at 11:29:40 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Thanks. Perhaps he isn't the best one to be giving me Spanish lessons. However, he was quite clear that the day laborers here from Mexico will say things like Tráeme una alberca de agua = Bring me a bucket of water. Or, La calle tiene muchas albercas = The street has lots of potholes. Based on his tone, and other comments, I think he was trying to drive home the point that he felt they spoke horrible Spanish. Perhaps he heard just once instance of a misuse of the word, and blamed it on a whole class of people. There seems to be a lot of elitism here about the language.



There is a wikipedia article on Nicaraguan Spanish which says that it is somewhat unique in North America, and shares many features in common with Argentine Spanish.

I don't know if the elitism about Spanish is any different than elitism in English. I have noticed that Europeans are much more interested in learning American English, whereas they all used to strive to learn British English.

But generally, it doesn't take much to provoke anyone born south of Durango into a tirade about Spanish along the border.

If you want to tap into the wellspring of language hatred, then read some of the letters that were written to the Oakland CA school board, when they applied for federal aid earmarked for students who spoke a foreign language. The school board was applying on behalf of students who spoke the African American vernacular.

My grandfather was not well educated, but he was born in the heartland of Castillian Spanish, so he thought everyone's dialect was ignorant. On the east coast, the predominate Spanish dialect was from Puerto Rico.

Most website refer to Nicaraguan potholes as "hoyos", but they also call this volcano "El hoyo".


Wizard
Administrator
Wizard
Joined: Oct 14, 2009
  • Threads: 1474
  • Posts: 25954
May 25th, 2011 at 12:26:55 PM permalink
Quote: pacomartin

If you want to tap into the wellspring of language hatred, then read some of the letters that were written to the Oakland CA school board, when they applied for federal aid earmarked for students who spoke a foreign language. The school board was applying on behalf of students who spoke the African American vernacular.



Yes, I remember the ebonics controversy. Did Oakland ever get their money for that?

You have a knack for always finding an amusing picture to illustrate whatever we're talking about it.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. -- Carl Sagan
Curious55
Curious55
Joined: May 11, 2011
  • Threads: 2
  • Posts: 26
May 25th, 2011 at 1:10:04 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard



Día is masculine? If I had anything to do with it I'd make all the nouns ending in "a" feminine, and "o", masculine.


Hola,
Yes , Dia is masculine.

El dia, el planeta, el turista, el problema are masculine words ending in "a"
La mano is a feminine word ending by "o"

and ....

El agua is a feminine word needing.... El

:)))
Doc
Doc
Joined: Feb 27, 2010
  • Threads: 46
  • Posts: 7281
May 25th, 2011 at 1:15:37 PM permalink
Quote: pacomartin

Most website refer to Nicaraguan potholes as "hoyos", but they also call this volcano "El hoyo".


Since you seem to know a bit about etymology, do/does "hoyos" have anything to do with Georgetown U.'s "Hoya Saxa", usually shortened to just "Hoyas"? I don't speak either Spanish or Greek, but it seems that "What rocks!" and "What a big damn hole in the ground!" could be related. ;-)
pacomartin
pacomartin
Joined: Jan 14, 2010
  • Threads: 649
  • Posts: 7895
May 25th, 2011 at 1:18:06 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Yes, I remember the ebonics controversy. Did Oakland ever get their money for that?

You have a knack for always finding an amusing picture to illustrate whatever we're talking about it.



I think they did not get the original funding they were seeking. But the Oakland school system resolution was meant to recognize the language as part of an ongoing requirement to seek funding, an to compensate teachers who were fluent in both languages. While the term "ebonics" had been in use in linguistic circles for over 20 years, it has largely been replaced with AAVE because of the vitriolic backlash to this controversy.
pacomartin
pacomartin
Joined: Jan 14, 2010
  • Threads: 649
  • Posts: 7895
May 25th, 2011 at 1:45:31 PM permalink
Quote: Doc

Since you seem to know a bit about etymology, do/does "hoyos" have anything to do with Georgetown U.'s "Hoya Saxa", usually shortened to just "Hoyas"? I don't speak either Spanish or Greek, but it seems that "What rocks!" and "What a big damn hole in the ground!" could be related. ;-)



I think it is coincidence. Spanish hoya comes from Latin, fovĕa , which is different than Hoya in the Georgetown chant which is from a Greek word. But both Latin and Greek do come from a common language which did not exist in a written form and thus has been lost. However, it was laboriously reconstructed by it's linguistic descendants all over Europe and Asia including Sanskrit, Persian, and most of the European languages. It is known as Proto Indo European (PIE) and in a dictionary the words traditionally start with an asterik (*) to indicate that there is no written record of the word, but that it is entirely reconstructed.
Nareed
Nareed
Joined: Nov 11, 2009
  • Threads: 373
  • Posts: 11413
May 25th, 2011 at 1:56:40 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Thanks. Perhaps he isn't the best one to be giving me Spanish lessons. However, he was quite clear that the day laborers here from Mexico will say things like Tráeme una alberca de agua = Bring me a bucket of water. Or, La calle tiene muchas albercas = The street has lots of potholes.



Well, I can't tell you how Mexican day laborers in Nevada speak. But I've never heard that usage.

A pothole is either a "bache" or an "hoyo." BUket is "cubeta" and in some palces "cubo."
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
zippyboy
zippyboy
Joined: Jan 19, 2011
  • Threads: 2
  • Posts: 1124
May 25th, 2011 at 3:07:22 PM permalink
Quote: pacomartin

LOWE: Once you go through your turn in the barrel, you have a unique perspective on it. And what I've learned is it's a good thing to be in the business long enough that you have your turn in the barrel. It's really easy to be, you know, a one hit wonder who never gets his turn. It's also real easy to be in the barrel and never come out of it.

Now, almost everyone knows that Rob Lowe is using the punchline of an old vulgar sailor's joke. But the phrase has pretty much worked it's way into the language so that it is not considered very offensive. But the term "glory hole" while also not actually cursing is still considered pretty vulgar. You couldn't work that into an interview without making TV censors uncomfortable. Most of the time, it is better to stay on the safe side, and not to use words that are considered vulgar anywhere.


In addition to glory hole, other words not actually vulgar per sé, but are banned by TV censors, include cameltoe and MILF. I remember reading even Two and a Half Men had trouble getting those past the network years ago.
"Poker sure is an easy game to beat if you have the roll to keep rebuying."
pacomartin
pacomartin
Joined: Jan 14, 2010
  • Threads: 649
  • Posts: 7895
May 25th, 2011 at 3:19:42 PM permalink
Quote: Curious55

Hola,Yes , Dia is masculine. El dia, el planeta, el turista, el problema are masculine words ending in "a"
La mano is a feminine word ending by "o and ....
El agua is a feminine word needing.... El
:)))



The latin word for day was dies, the word we get diety from. The days are named after male gods.
Spanish days are named after Roman gods (Mars, Mercury, Jupiter, Venus) while English days are named after Nordic Gods (Týr, 'W'Odin, Thor, Freyja ). Monday is named for the moon in both languages.

As I said earlier, I was always told that there is no comprehensive way to figure out gender of nouns. In many cases even scholars cannot figure it out.
Nareed
Nareed
Joined: Nov 11, 2009
  • Threads: 373
  • Posts: 11413
May 25th, 2011 at 3:45:03 PM permalink
Venus wasn't male :P
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
Nareed
Nareed
Joined: Nov 11, 2009
  • Threads: 373
  • Posts: 11413
May 25th, 2011 at 6:48:43 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Perhaps he heard just once instance of a misuse of the word, and blamed it on a whole class of people. There seems to be a lot of elitism here about the language.



Sorry. Way too much work today and I had to actually do it rather than just pretend :P

Anyway, most people I know who've travelled to South America or Spain, spend inordinate amounts of time telling us folks back home about how they magle spanish over there (even in Spain). Of course I tend to agree. When you are used to one way of using a language, any other use seems odd, wrong and distasteful much of the time.

For instance, two things I can't stand about how Spaniards use the language is:

1) Instead of writing one million thus: 1,000,000.00 they write it like so: 1.000.000,00 Really. for some reaon they invert the use of commas and the decimal point. they will give amoutns like "five comma thirty seven." Tell em that doesn't sound like someone giving coordinates rather than a price.

2) They insist on translating the first names of foreigners. I can give it a pass with some really strange names. but reading things like "El presidente Guillermo Clinton...." is annoying. I wonder what they call Barack Obama.

So there you go...
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
konceptum
konceptum
Joined: Mar 25, 2010
  • Threads: 33
  • Posts: 790
May 25th, 2011 at 7:54:41 PM permalink
Quote: Nareed

2) They insist on translating the first names of foreigners. I can give it a pass with some really strange names. but reading things like "El presidente Guillermo Clinton...." is annoying. I wonder what they call Barack Obama.


This is a pet peeve of mine, and I've heard other languages do it as well. I personally feel that your name is your name, and is not something that is "translatable". If your name is John, it doesn't become Juan in Mexico or Hans in Germany. Your name is still John.
Wizard
Administrator
Wizard
Joined: Oct 14, 2009
  • Threads: 1474
  • Posts: 25954
May 25th, 2011 at 11:12:37 PM permalink
Quote: pacomartin

I think they did not get the original funding they were seeking. But the Oakland school system resolution was meant to recognize the language as part of an ongoing requirement to seek funding, an to compensate teachers who were fluent in both languages. While the term "ebonics" had been in use in linguistic circles for over 20 years, it has largely been replaced with AAVE because of the vitriolic backlash to this controversy.



This is getting off topic, but I, for one, don't consider Ebonics a language, and teachers should not get a bonus for being able to speak in slang English. I prefer the term Ebonics.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. -- Carl Sagan
Nareed
Nareed
Joined: Nov 11, 2009
  • Threads: 373
  • Posts: 11413
May 25th, 2011 at 11:29:18 PM permalink
Quote: konceptum

This is a pet peeve of mine, and I've heard other languages do it as well. I personally feel that your name is your name, and is not something that is "translatable". If your name is John, it doesn't become Juan in Mexico or Hans in Germany. Your name is still John.



Well, many names have equivalents in other languages. This is true in particular of Western languages. But a given anme of a specific person in a given language is that person's name, and should not be translated when referring to that person.

There are exceptions. In america the previous Pope was known was John Paul II. In Mexico he was called Juan Pablo II. But I've heard Popes take name sin Latin, and it's customary to translate that. I'd also accept to amke an exception for names that are too hard to pronounce for the speakers of one language, but that's relatively rare.

Incidentally, most Mexicans are incapable of pronouncing properly the letter "S" in words that begin with S and another consonant. For example "Style." Most Mexicans would say "estyle." I've no idea where the extra e comes fomr, as I've never had a problem with such pronunciation.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
Wizard
Administrator
Wizard
Joined: Oct 14, 2009
  • Threads: 1474
  • Posts: 25954
May 25th, 2011 at 11:57:33 PM permalink
Fecha: 26 de Mayo, 2011
Palabra del día = PARDALL


I think this will be my last word of the day coming from Isla Vista. Some streets I haven't mentioned yet are too easy or obscure to cover, like:

Camino Lindo = Nice Way
Camino Corto = Short Way
Fortuna Lane = Fortune Way
Estero Road = Estuary Road
Embarcadero del Norte = North Harbor
Embarcadero del Mar = Sea Harbor

Then there are several that are streets or islands in Spain, such as: Seville, Cervantes, Cordoba, and Madrid.

The one street I can't figure out is Pardall Road. I rode my bike down this road, which leads to the main bike path between IV and UCSB, thousands of times but never once wondered until now what it meant. Now I won't be able to die in peace until I know.

I can say that pardal, with one l, means sparrow, or a crafty person, in Spanish. Was the extra l a typographical error? I can't find mention of any city in Spain called Pardal or Parall. Maybe it refers to Manuel Rivero Pardal, a 17th century Portuguese pirate.

My best guess is they meant the sparrow, but misspelled it with two ls (do I use an apostrophe there?).

So the meaning of the word of May 26 is a mystery. Get to it detectives!

GoogleMap.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. -- Carl Sagan
Nareed
Nareed
Joined: Nov 11, 2009
  • Threads: 373
  • Posts: 11413
May 26th, 2011 at 12:29:28 AM permalink
It's a typo. Remember the double L in spanish sounds more like the English Y, as in lluvia, allá, querella, etc. There are no Spanish words ending in double LL. If you find one it's etiher a typo or a word adapted from another language.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
zippyboy
zippyboy
Joined: Jan 19, 2011
  • Threads: 2
  • Posts: 1124
May 26th, 2011 at 12:59:36 AM permalink
damn nareed, what are you still doing up? Don't you have to work in the morning? lol
"Poker sure is an easy game to beat if you have the roll to keep rebuying."
Nareed
Nareed
Joined: Nov 11, 2009
  • Threads: 373
  • Posts: 11413
May 26th, 2011 at 1:08:48 AM permalink
Quote: zippyboy

damn nareed, what are you still doing up? Don't you have to work in the morning? lol



I'm still at work at 3:05 am with no end in sight.

The government got this bright idea about electronic propposals. Well and good, but it wants ot encourage them. the difference is that instead of printing out a mound of waste paper and assembling it in binders, no you print out a mound of waste paper and scan it. Isn't progress grand? Oh, but wait! there's more! (or less!) The government agency then ahs to print al the files you scanned. So this wastes twice as much paper! After printing they'l assemble it in binders and file it away in some place.

For all that, the reason I'm still here, mostly, is that around 1 am, when we were ready to ebgin uploading, the government's servers crapped out. We're waiting for the site to come back up... I estimate at least 45 minutes of uploads...
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
FleaStiff
FleaStiff
Joined: Oct 19, 2009
  • Threads: 265
  • Posts: 14484
May 26th, 2011 at 5:11:16 AM permalink
I think California even has a street naming hierarchy which favors Spanish names or Spanish sounding names for newly dedicated streets. Reminds me of the American tourist who ventured off the beaten track to record an authentic folk song sung in some remote village cantina. When he got back home and played his home movies, his friends told him that was a Coca Cola commercial.

Street names of Pseudo-Spanish appearance would be favored, so an Embarcadero that was nowhere near a harbor would be considered perfectly acceptable. I'd like to see some real estate developer put in streets named "Loss of Wetlands Road" in Spanish or a Spanish version of Your Taxes Pay For Ebonics Seminars road.
Nareed
Nareed
Joined: Nov 11, 2009
  • Threads: 373
  • Posts: 11413
May 26th, 2011 at 5:33:42 AM permalink
Past 7:30 now and the site is still down.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
Doc
Doc
Joined: Feb 27, 2010
  • Threads: 46
  • Posts: 7281
May 26th, 2011 at 5:48:39 AM permalink
Quote: Nareed

Past 7:30 now and the site is still down.


Here's my guess: There is a deadline for proposals. Your competitor submitted theirs early (had an early copy of the solicitation) and has paid a bribe to have the system down so that your proposal cannot be in before the deadline. Sound familiar?
Nareed
Nareed
Joined: Nov 11, 2009
  • Threads: 373
  • Posts: 11413
May 26th, 2011 at 6:35:42 AM permalink
Quote: Doc

Here's my guess: There is a deadline for proposals. Your competitor submitted theirs early (had an early copy of the solicitation) and has paid a bribe to have the system down so that your proposal cannot be in before the deadline. Sound familiar?



Yes. But the site serves all the Federal government's acquisitions for goods, services and public works, all over the country. While few procedures are limited to electronic propposals, the vast majority do admit them. In addition, agencies depend on the system to publish their requests for porpposals, the reams of rules relating to each, for publishing the results, and for taking questions regarding the requests. Shutting down the system is too big a deal for too many suplpiers and government agencies.

But back on topic, can you figure out how to say "FUBAR" in Spanish?
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
Wizard
Administrator
Wizard
Joined: Oct 14, 2009
  • Threads: 1474
  • Posts: 25954
May 26th, 2011 at 8:28:27 AM permalink
Sorry to change the topic, but I have noticed that some Spanish speakers seem to make liberal use of a sound that is somewhere between the English j and sh. A good example is in the word yo.

Is it just me, or is the way yo is pronounced in this song sounds more like joe than yo: audio clip from Cristo Mi Rey. Click the play button for the song and wait about four verses for the phrase yo vivo.

I brought this up to my tutor and she had no idea what I was talking about, and said yo is supposed to be pronounced just like it is spelled, with a y sound.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. -- Carl Sagan
Nareed
Nareed
Joined: Nov 11, 2009
  • Threads: 373
  • Posts: 11413
May 26th, 2011 at 8:50:21 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Sorry to change the topic, but I have noticed that some Spanish speakers seem to make liberal use of a sound that is somewhere between the English j and sh. A good example is in the word yo.



More J than SH, I should think. i was going to touch on that soon. Alas, I'm heading home, finally, to rest after a 26:30 hour workday (and not even in a medical field!).

More later.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
pacomartin
pacomartin
Joined: Jan 14, 2010
  • Threads: 649
  • Posts: 7895
May 26th, 2011 at 11:40:52 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Sorry to change the topic, but I have noticed that some Spanish speakers seem to make liberal use of a sound that is somewhere between the English j and sh. A good example is in the word yo.



The pronunciation is noted as a regional difference. In the following audio instruction: pronounciatin of the letter y, it sounds more like the 3rd speaker who is listed as Peruvian.

Although the Latino population of Clark County is 80% Mexican according to the census bureau, there is still a healthy percentage from other countries (Puerto Rico and Cuba are about 2.5% apiece).

There are normally considered to be 10 varieties of regional Mexican Spanish, and as far as I could tell, many Mexicans struggle with speakers from a different variety.


I got used to hearing this fast paced dialect from the costa chica south of Acapulco
versos de la costa chica oaxaqueña
pacomartin
pacomartin
Joined: Jan 14, 2010
  • Threads: 649
  • Posts: 7895
May 26th, 2011 at 3:45:53 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Fecha: 26 de Mayo, 2011
Palabra del día = PARDALL

The one street I can't figure out is Pardall Road. I rode my bike down this road, which leads to the main bike path between IV and UCSB, thousands of times but never once wondered until now what it meant. Now I won't be able to die in peace until I know.
My best guess is they meant the sparrow, but misspelled it with two ls (do I use an apostrophe there?).
So the meaning of the word of May 26 is a mystery. Get to it detectives!




Your question was way beyond my guesswork. I wrote to Neil Graffy who spent 25 years researching Santa Barbara street names, to get the expert opinion. I will post his response verbatim since he admits he doesn't know where the double l came from.

Quote: Neil Graffy (author of "Street Names of Santa Barbara" )

The area you are refering to, Isla Vista, was open ranch/farming land for well over a century after the Mexican American war ended. Isla Vista was slowly developed after the University of California at Santa Barbara took over the former Marine airbase facilities in 1948.

Pardall Road wasn't named until around 1955 and originally did have one "L". The double "L" appeared around 1959. Why I do not know. According to Cassells' Spanish English Dictionary, "Pardal" has a number of meanings including "sparrow", "leopard" and "crafty fellow." But the use of a word as defined in a pure Castillian Dictionary is not how the word is used by Spanish speaking people in the rest of the world. The same "laws" exist for any widely used language. For example, asking for a "soda" will result in a different beverage as you cross the United States.

But back to the streets...it seems highly unlikely it was named for the sparrow. As the surrounding streets are named for places in Spain - Cordoba, Madrid, Seville and there is a Pardal in Spain it seems more likely the street took its name from that place. It is a very small town, but it may have meant something to the developer or whoever came up with the street names in that part of Isla Vista..



The town of Pardal (pop 69) is in a remote section of Spain in Murcia in the mountains, I like Neil's theory that Pardal was a place that meant something to the developer.
( 38°29'2.53"N 2°17'4.62"W)


My brother met a business colleague from Salamanca Spain, and he commented that our grandfather grew up in Ventosa del Río Almar. The man grew very irate and said that there was no such place. When they met a year later, the Spaniard said that he was on the lookout for the town, and there it was only 15 miles from Salamanca, right next to the primary road from Salamanca to Avila and on to Madrid. The town only has a population of 134 people so he had never noticed it.
Wizard
Administrator
Wizard
Joined: Oct 14, 2009
  • Threads: 1474
  • Posts: 25954
May 26th, 2011 at 4:10:40 PM permalink
Wow, you certainly went beyond the call of duty, again. Thank you very much for the detective work. Not to diminish the fine answer from Mr. Graffy, but I wouldn't be too quick to rule out the sparrow theory. For one thing, there are lots of sparrows in coastal California. For another, there is El Nido Lane close by. I'm not saying the city in Spain theory is wrong, but I'd take 2 to 1 that my sparrow theory is correct.

I'll be in that part of Santa Barbara for a week this summer and will do my best to investigate this further.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. -- Carl Sagan
pacomartin
pacomartin
Joined: Jan 14, 2010
  • Threads: 649
  • Posts: 7895
May 26th, 2011 at 5:14:46 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Not to diminish the fine answer from Mr. Graffy, but I wouldn't be too quick to rule out the sparrow theory. For one thing, there are lots of sparrows in coastal California. For another, there is El Nido Lane close by. I'm not saying the city in Spain theory is wrong, but I'd take 2 to 1 that my sparrow theory is correct.I'll be in that part of Santa Barbara for a week this summer and will do my best to investigate this further.



He did admit that he didn't actually know the answer. But we at least know it was once spelled correctly. Looking at a map not all of the street names are places in Madrid. There is another place called El Pardal in Galicia, northwest corner of Spain. It started the decade with a population of 6 and has been reduced to 4. So I will consider that an even more unlikely source of the name.

The "El Pardal" in Albacete (pop 69) seems to be too small to have a hotel, but there is a place of 25 rooms within 10 miles. The area is billed as a back to nature hiking place, without any golf courses or any other larger tourist attractions. There is a Parador in Albacete. If you are not familiar with them, paradors are government sponsored hotels in historic places in Spain. Their principal purpose is to encourage tourism into the backcountry.

I do admire your spunk. If he spent 25 years researching street names, you are a positive person if you think you might find something in a week.
Wizard
Administrator
Wizard
Joined: Oct 14, 2009
  • Threads: 1474
  • Posts: 25954
May 26th, 2011 at 7:59:26 PM permalink
Quote: pacomartin

I do admire your spunk. If he spent 25 years researching street names, you are a positive person if you think you might find something in a week.



I meant I would just annoy lots of people with the question, not really expecting an answer. I'm good at that. I'll be sure to include the Spanish department at UCSB in my list of victims.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. -- Carl Sagan
Wizard
Administrator
Wizard
Joined: Oct 14, 2009
  • Threads: 1474
  • Posts: 25954
May 26th, 2011 at 10:57:27 PM permalink
Fecha: 27 de Mayo
Palbaras del día: Encantar, Querer, Amar


Spanish has three words for love. It is an important word, so I think it deserves multiple ways to express it. I know in Greek there are three words for Love as well:

Eros = erotic love
Philos = brotherly love (why they call Philadelphia the city of brotherly love)
Agape = the deepest kind of love

I'll leave the corrections to Nareed and Paco, but let me take a stab at defining the Spanish words for love.

Encantar = To be enchanted with. Perhaps a stronger version of like (gustar). Por ejemplo: Estoy encantado con los zapatos. = I love those shoes.
Querer = To want/love. Querer was the word of the day before, where we discussed how the listener call tell whether the speaker means want or love. If used to mean love my interpretation is that means to be enamored with. It seems to be used in situations involving the rush one feels when they first develop an affection for somebody else. Even when used to mean love, I think it also implies want as well. Perhaps that is why want and love share the same word.
Amar = This is the deepest form of love, which I would compare to the Greek agape.

One reason I became interested in the different love words is that the title of the song "I don't know how to love him" has two different translations in Spanish.

One of them is No Se Como Amarlo.
The other is No Se Como Quererle.

Lo siento, Dorothy, sé que odias esa canción. = Sorry, Dorothy, I know you hate that song.

Okay, let the corrections begin.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. -- Carl Sagan
Nareed
Nareed
Joined: Nov 11, 2009
  • Threads: 373
  • Posts: 11413
May 27th, 2011 at 7:17:26 AM permalink
No corrections this time, just an addition:

Encantar also means "to charm" and "to enchant."
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
pacomartin
pacomartin
Joined: Jan 14, 2010
  • Threads: 649
  • Posts: 7895
May 27th, 2011 at 7:44:40 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Okay, let the corrections begin.



No corrections. Just some amplifying points.



Me encanta is McDonald's slogan for the Latin market. Much like gustar the subject of the sentence is the object that is pleasing. "McDonald's is enchanting to me", instead of the more customary "I love McDonald's".
"Me encantan los mariscos" - "I love seafood" : Notice that the verb uses 3rd person plural since the subject of the sentence is plural (seafoods). You are literally saying "Seafood is enchanting to me".

The word "enchanting" is much less fruity in Spanish or French than it is in English. It is customary way to say "Nice to meet you" in both Spanish and French. That is what people are saying in French: "enchanté (ehn-shan-TAY) [said by a male] or Enchantée [said by a female]".

In Spanish you would say "Mucho gusto Encantado" if you are male or "Mucho gusto Encantada" if you are female.

Amar is more commonly used in the active voice, the same as English, "I love you".
pacomartin
pacomartin
Joined: Jan 14, 2010
  • Threads: 649
  • Posts: 7895
May 27th, 2011 at 11:26:02 AM permalink
Shakira's pronounciation is very clear in Esto es Africa

Llego el momento, caen las murallas
Va a comenzar la unica justa de la batallas
No duele el golpe, no existe el miedo
Quitate el polvo, ponte de pie y vuelves al ruedo

Y la presion que sientes
Espera en ti, tu gente!
Ahora vamos por todo
y te acompaña la suerte
Tsamina mina zangalewa
Porque esto es Africa

Tsamina mina eh eh
Waka waka eh eh
Tsamina mina zangalewa
Porque esto es Africa

Oye a tu dios
y no estaras solo
llegas aqui para brillar
lo tienes todo
la hora se acerca
es el momento
Vas a ganar cada batalla
ya lo presiento

Hay que empezar de cero
para tocar el cielo
Ahora vamos por todo
Y todos vamos por ellos
Tsamina mina zangalewa
Porque esto es Africa

Tsamina mina eh eh
Waka waka eh eh
Tsamina mina zangalewa
Porque esto es Africa
Wizard
Administrator
Wizard
Joined: Oct 14, 2009
  • Threads: 1474
  • Posts: 25954
May 27th, 2011 at 3:01:07 PM permalink
Thanks for the follow up comments. I'm in a rush at the moment so sorry I can't give any further cross talk at the moment.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. -- Carl Sagan
Nareed
Nareed
Joined: Nov 11, 2009
  • Threads: 373
  • Posts: 11413
May 28th, 2011 at 5:59:58 AM permalink
The Wizard asked me to take over these daily posts for a while.

Fecha: 28 de Mayo
Palbara del día: Estacionamiento


English makes a distinction between parking lots and parking garages. Spanish does not. Any structure, lot or space meant for the purposes of parking cars, buses and/or trucks is called "Estacionamiento."

Examples:

"El restaurante no tiene estacionamiento" = "The restaurant doesn't provide parking facilities."

"El periferico del DF es el estacionamiento más grande del mundo" = "Mexico City's freeway is the world's biggest parking lot."

I'll try something more complicated tomorrow.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
pacomartin
pacomartin
Joined: Jan 14, 2010
  • Threads: 649
  • Posts: 7895
May 28th, 2011 at 7:33:42 AM permalink
Quote: Nareed

Fecha: 28 de Mayo Palbara del día: Estacionamiento



Here is five uses of park in English
parking lot, estacionamiento
parking, aparcamiento
to park, para estacionar
park, parque
Chapultepec park, Bosque de Chapultepec

Can I park the car? -¿Puedo aparcar el coche?
Will you park the car? - ¿Va a aparcar el coche?
Nareed
Nareed
Joined: Nov 11, 2009
  • Threads: 373
  • Posts: 11413
May 28th, 2011 at 8:15:35 AM permalink
Quote: pacomartin

Chapultepec park, Bosque de Chapultepec



Not quite. it's a park called El Bosque de Chapultepec ;)

BTW "parque" also means ammunition. Go figure. It's hardly used any more, though. For ammunition people will say "municiones" or "balas." In South America "parque" can also refer to parquet floors.

Quote:

Can I park the car? -¿Puedo aparcar el coche?
Will you park the car? - ¿Va a aparcar el coche?



That's technically correct. But if you say that in the north of Mexico, you'll find the locals will use "parquear" more often. You use it int he rest of Mexico and you'll be understood, but people will smile. the current term is "estacionar."

The related English word is "stationary," as in "not currently in motion."

I got a doozy for tomorrow >:)
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal

  • Jump to: