2016 Election -- Part II

Quote: Rigondeaux

Her, and other elitists will blame everyone but themselves, thereby digging themselves deeper.

Maybe if a few more movie stars call the people who gave them dream lives bigoted idiots, they'll come arround.

No, this is entirely Hillary's fault. She didn't have a message, Trump did. He found an untapped coalition in the groups I described earlier: financially left-behind blue collar workers, under-educated whites, and bigoted idiots. If she had addressed in any meaningful way the plight of the blue collar workers, she'd be president-elect right now. Only some of Trump's supporters are bigoted idiots (not "half" like Hillary stupidly said) but many of those got airtime on TV.

This shirtless guy is a Trump supporter. He thinks Trump represents his feelings and values. Does he represent yours?

I find it hilarious that so many are enraged about some of the people who voted for Trump because they may not be the best and the brightest we have to offer. What a bunch of elitist bullshit. If you look, you'll find some people who may be less desirable than others solidly in both camps...that is not why Hillary lost. if 99% of blacks voted for Obama in 2008 (it was a high %; this is not the correct number), does that mean that every single one of those folks that voted was one of what the elites would call "non-deplorable"? Hell no. There were some "deplorables" in there but the vast majority--vast majority--were good, solid Americans who believed in what Obama presented to them. To be President, you need more votes than the other candidate(s) in the right locations to win.

Hillary failed to resonate with enough people. Just like in 2008. She even had a much better chance this time than then; both runs were against people with few qualifications for the office of the Presidency. There is also little reason to bring sexism into--if America can elect a black president, why would anyone think we wouldn't elect a woman? We will. When a woman creates a message that resonates more than her opponent's. Obama was not as qualified as the others in 2008; get over that issue. It is the candidate who resonates with the voters that wins.

Who cares if Hillary won the popular vote? Both candidates, as always, targeted electoral votes--not the popular vote. It is always something that will happen from time to time in our system. It doesn't matter a bit--the loser doesn't get to be the under-President or something--it just shows that the election was close.

Quote: Wizard

My personal opinion is that he spoke like Santa Claus on the campaign trail, promising everything without cost, and we bought it hook line and sinker.

The thing is that is what it is taking to win now. In 2012 we had Obama Claus on one side and Mitt getting clobbered for the "47%" comment. Look who got treated how.

Quote: beachbumbabs

The nearly 1B loss came from a page in his state tax filing for that year, so either he really lost it or he filed fraudulent taxes. Pick your poison.

No intelligent person would try to do $1 billion in tax fraud on a personal return in one year. You would know you would get caught.

Seriously, when you have a BK or some other big charge (e.g.: VW Diesel rigging) you take the charge all at once and not a drip-drip-drip as expenses come in. Simple stuff.

People have short memories. Hilary's sex was used against her to generate animosity from a different direction. But that wasn't the reason she was viciously attacked. She was viciously attacked for having a political philosophy (liberalism) that is repulsive to a great many who are politically active. They refuse to accept the fact that huge numbers of Americans share this philosophy and that these ideas cannot be marginalized or made to appear that they are unrepresentative of millions of Americans living in this country. Does anyone remember Bill Clinton? He was attacked just as viciously. A former judge, Ken Starr, (who was just fired from his position as President of Baylor U.) hurled some outrageous trumped up charges against him, Whitewater, spending 4.5 years and 39 million dollars of taxpayer money and all he came up with was Monica Lewinsky. A great many of his political opponents pointed to the tragic suicide of Deputy White House Counsel Vince Foster and made the outrageous claim that Bill Clinton ordered him to be murdered. A disgusting and total fabrication. They tried to portray Bill Clinton, who's worst attribute was infidelity, as a dangerous monster. The right wing has gone so far as to out a CIA agent (Valery Plame) because her husband, an Ambassador, embarrassed the Bush Administration by debunking the Sadaam Hussein and weapons of mass destruction lie. Remember the ridiculous "swift boat" attacks on John Kerry, claiming that he was a cowardly soldier? Make no mistake. Misogyny is merely a decoy. It is liberalism which animates the political right. And they will viciously attack anyone; man, woman, black or white, short or tall who subscribes to a majority of its ideas.


Note to Trump Supporters: He's going to screw you like he's screwed everybody else in life he's dealt with. He doesn't really care about the issues he screams about. He just used you to get elected. He doesn't care about you. Donald Trump cares about one thing: Donald Trump



Addendum: Protests all over the country yesterday against Trump

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/10/us/trump-election-protests.html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=span-abc-region&region=span-abc-region&WT.nav=span-abc-region

Quote: lilredrooster

Note to Trump Supporters: He's going to screw you like he's screwed everybody else in life he's dealt with. He doesn't really care about the issues he screams about. He just used you to get elected. He doesn't care about you. Donald Trump cares about one thing: Donald Trump

Ding ding ding. We have a winner! No one knows what Donald will do as President. Everything he promised during the campaign was just words. They've already scrubbed the Muslim ban stuff of the Trump website.



And I'm also a little annoyed with my fellow liberals at the moment (not anyone on this board, just liberals in general). All this whining and protesting. Can't we just wait till he's actually President to do that? Seems like a waste of energy to me at the moment. I'm sure he'll make plenty of bad decisions in the future, we can complain then. Why bother now? It's not going to change anything.

This is MS-13. Thanks to our open border policy there are more than 10,000 of them criminally active in 41 states.

They come from Central America, mostly over the Mexican border, and some of them apply for and receive refugee status in the US because the Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals ruled that being a 'former' member of a criminal gang, is to be a member of a 'particular social class' and therefore entitled to protection.

They only need to claim they are a 'former member' of MS-13 to be entitled to all the benefits refugee status gives them.

Then you pay for their free medical, housing, monthly SS check, and more.

They prefer suburban areas, so the government settles them in those communities where the police force is often small and unable to control their criminal activities.

Brentwood

Finding Bodies

Initiation into the gang always involves murder. It could be a family member or a random victim.


Female victims are beaten to death, because in their culture, it is not considered macho to simply kill a female. She must be beaten to death.

When deported, they return because there is no penalty for returning after deportation.

They are not the only ones. According to the FBI, there are 33,000 violent street gangs, motorcycle gangs, and prison gangs with about 1.4 million members criminally active in the US.

FBI Gang Report

Despite this, Obama has ordered Border Patrol agents not to arrest and deport illegal immigrants.

Judicial Watch

Consequently, people are crossing the border unimpeded, in anticipation of the amnesty that would have followed Hillary's election.

Obama's executive order for amnesty was blocked by a split Supreme Court in June.

CNN

Hillary's appointee would have changed that.

The "Deplorables" saved America.

Thank you.

Polls were within normal historical errors (±4 points). RealClearPolitics' finals compared to actual:

Clinton: 46.8, compared to 47.7 actual (she actually *outperformed* the polling estimate)
Trump: 43.6, compared to 47.5 actual (off by 3.9)
Spread: +3.2 Clinton, actual +0.2 Clinton


In other news, MaxPen's prediction of a Trump landslide (≥56% of popular vote and ≥323 electoral votes) was way off the mark. Trump didn't even win the popular vote, much less get an electoral landslide.

MaxPen said he'd own up to his error if he were wrong. "No excuses will be coming from me [on election day, if I'm wrong about a Trump landslide]." Will he? More likely he'll just say Trump won by "a lot" and that's all that matters and sidestep the fact that his claim was ridiculous on its face.

8 days till Joeshlabotnik is allowed to post again. I'm marking my calendar for that one. Should be interesting.

EDIT: Arrghh, just realized that's the first day of a 4 day Vegas vacation for me so I'll miss any potential fireworks (and nuclear explosions).

One of my (shockingly) educated friends posted this, and I think it sums up A LOT in a very clear and concise way:

Many voted for Trump because globalization, free trade, and automation of manual labor has left them unable to find high paying jobs without getting an educatino or advanced technical training. This has threatened their way of life, and it's not ever going to reverse course. Out of fear, and intellectual laziness, they blame immigrants and believe societal gains by gays and minorities have come at their expense. They are poorly educated and gullible, so they accept the simple solutions of Trump and company that plays on their religious fundamentalism, lack of diversity and inherent fear of outsiders.

The educated white conservatives vote Trump because he'll maintain the status quo of funneling money to the already wealthy. Poor whites support it because they're too busy blaming blacks and Mexicans to notice it's their overlords who are screwing them. This is why they're stupid.

p.s. Exit Polls available, and not surprising:



It's not even a race among the most educated... <sarcasm>shocking...</sarcasm>

To those complaining about the poors, I have your solution: http://www.rhodesia.me.uk/UDIConstitutionandFranchise.htm - only the wealthy and educated middle class can vote. No race restrictions AT ALL.

Glad to know my betters are watching out for me.

Quote: RonC

I find it hilarious that so many are enraged about some of the people who voted for Trump because they may not be the best and the brightest we have to offer. What a bunch of elitist bullshit.

This has nothing to do with being enraged about voter intelligence. People are enraged that the way Trump got many of those people to vote is by pandering to racists who call themselves "real Americans" rather than addressing their problems with honest policies. When you're educated, you're more likely to understand that "Mexicans are pouring across the border to steal your jobs" is the real bullshit. The blue collar workers didn't lose their jobs to Mexicans, they lost their jobs because the markets shifted -- and the markets shifted because conservative elites shifted them by unshackling the market. Unshackled markets produce higher levels of aggregate growth but also violent variances in where those markets move. Coal miners aren't out of work in Virginia because of Mexicans or because of global warming policies, they're out of work because natural gas in North Dakota is cheaper energy. And the conservative elites did nothing to mitigate those variances or help the middle class crush they should have seen coming, even as they were tampering with the housing market and selling uninsured high-risk mortgages as safe baskets of debt. Free markets may be great for rich people like Trump but they lead to economic ruin for middle class workers stuck in the turbulence. If you're middle class in America, you had to get lucky in order to stay ahead over the past decade -- that meant being in an industry that didn't get crushed by shifting markets. Coal lost. Gas won. If you're a miner, tough crap, you lose.

The failure of American politics over the past 20 years is that we left the middle classes to suffer the whims of the markets. "Hope you get lucky" is not a morally just social policy. Liberal policies of wealth redistribution and career retraining would have minimized that impact. Conservative policies of unregulated free markets and "every man for himself" would have made it worse. When you slice the pie into smaller pieces, more of the pie gets stuck to the knife, but more people get pie. Liberal economic philosophy says more people having pie is worth the tradeoff of inefficient pie-slicing. Conservative economic philosophy says precisely the opposite -- that it's more important not to waste any pie than to make sure everyone gets some. To the people who don't get any pie, tough crap, you lose.

The real elitist bullshit is the notion that white Christians are superior to everyone else and that America is something that needs to be "taken back" from ethnic minorities or people who don't believe in a particular flavor of Jesus. Yet that's what Trump campaigned on, and it's what many of his voters believe, and now feel freer to act upon. And you're surprised that many liberals -- who believe that everyone should get some pie, not just white Christians -- are enraged.

And if you think this is all just overwrought hysteria, you are objectively wrong. Between 30 and 40 high school students in Oregon yesterday brought Trump banners and a confederate flag to their high school, holding a pro-Trump victory rally and shouting at Hispanic students: "pack your bags, you're leaving tomorrow" and "tell your family goodbye."

http://www.oregonlive.com/politics/index.ssf/2016/11/2_silverton_students_suspended.html#incart_river_home

This is the legacy of the Trump campaign. Trump has made it socially acceptable to be an open bigot and display hatred toward your fellow Americans who don't happen to share your ethnic or religious background. Every "real American" should be enraged by that.

Quote: BasesLoaded

Glad to know my betters are watching out for me.

Or it more/less has to do with uneducated people also not taking the time to get informed about their candidate and/or their policies and just "sticking to their party" and listening to biased misinformation, even if the guy says "grab them by the pussy."

I just hope the thugs that are protesting the results of the election don't do anything crazy. Also the SJWs

Quote: djatc

I just hope the thugs that are protesting the results of the election don't do anything crazy. Also the SJWs

What makes them "thugs?"

Quote: ams288

What makes them "thugs?"

They a bunch'a hippies, I'll tell ya that much. Too many hippies these days.

Quote: ams288

What makes them "thugs?"

The fact the are involved in thuggery. I didn't say all of the protesters were thugs, that the thugs in the protest should not do anything crazy to delegitimize a peaceful protest

Quote: djatc

I just hope the thugs that are protesting the results of the election don't do anything crazy. Also the SJWs

I had to Google SJW. I thought maybe single Jewish women.

Quote: JimRockford

I had to Google SJW. I thought maybe single Jewish women.

The fact that he used "thugs" and "SJW" in his original statement tells me all I need to know about him...

Quote: ams288

The fact that he used "thugs" and "SJW" in his original statement tells me all I need to know about him...

Umad?

Quote: ams288

The fact that he used "thugs" and "SJW" in his original statement tells me all I need to know about him...

What are you even talking about? He used words, ooooh, aahhhhh!

Quote: djatc

Umad?

No not at all...

Quote: djatc

I just hope the thugs that are protesting the results of the election don't do anything crazy. Also the SJWs

But if Hillary had won, Trump supporters who threatened to overthrow the government would have been totally legitimate, I suppose. e.g. http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/28/us/politics/donald-trump-voters.html?_r=0

Quote: djatc

I just hope the thugs that are protesting the results of the election don't do anything crazy. Also the SJWs

Quote: Romes

Or it more/less has to do with uneducated people also not taking the time to get informed about their candidate and/or their policies and just "sticking to their party" and listening to biased misinformation, even if the guy says "grab them by the pussy."

Chillllllll not everyone can be as smrat as you

Quote: ams288

Can you imagine if the tables were flipped
Clinton takes the Electoral and Trump takes the popular
I don't think we would have heard a concession speech

Quote: MathExtremist

And if you think this is all just overwrought hysteria, you are objectively wrong. Between 30 and 40 high school students in Oregon yesterday brought Trump banners and a confederate flag to their high school, holding a pro-Trump victory rally and shouting at Hispanic students: "pack your bags, you're leaving tomorrow" and "tell your family goodbye."

http://www.oregonlive.com/politics/index.ssf/2016/11/2_silverton_students_suspended.html#incart_river_home

This is the legacy of the Trump campaign. Trump has made it socially acceptable to be an open bigot and display hatred toward your fellow Americans who don't happen to share your ethnic or religious background. Every "real American" should be enraged by that.

You are missing what is going on in the USA. You are missing it same as most of the "educated class" is missing it. For years many Americans have been made to feel like the foreigners in our own country. EXAMPLE: Ruling on U.S. flag raises questions about students' free-speech rights. Lets not forget about Disney firing Americans and hiring a crew of HB-1s. HB-1, a program for when you cannot find an American to do the job! Illegals on welfare, and lawsuits to say they are entitled to it. India call centers where you cannot understand half of what they are saying and the help is next to useless in the first place. A thousand paper cuts.

Point this out and the elites call you a bigot. Say the border should be controlled and you get called a racist. Don't want men in the ladies room and you are a homophobe.

This is what propelled Trump. People are saying screaming "ENOUGH!"

I am going to show my ignorance when it comes to this process. I read today that on Dec 19th the electoral college of each state casts the official vote. It said that the states could actual cast a vote for the other candidate if they want. There are someone states that have laws saying they can't but if they did change the vote there is nothing that can be done. Is that true? I assume it has and never will happen but is that how the process works?

Quote: GWAE

I am going to show my ignorance when it comes to this process. I read today that on Dec 19th the electoral college of each state casts the official vote. It said that the states could actual cast a vote for the other candidate if they want. There are someone states that have laws saying they can't but if they did change the vote there is nothing that can be done. Is that true? I assume it has and never will happen but is that how the process works?

"Electors" vote, not "states." States pick electors to go vote based on knowing how they will vote. Don't ask me how they pick. lets just say they have juice somewhere. Then the electors vote.

In 2000 what you say was a concern. Two electors not going with the program could have flipped it all. One threatened to abstain IIRC.

What I think you are thinking of is a 269-269 tie. Then the House votes, but it votes by states. So a "blue" state with more GOP Congressmen would vote "red" most likely. This could easily happen if a state had most of the population crammed into a minority of districts.

If you want to win back Trump voters, doubling down on lies and delusions isn't going to do it.

There are, in fact, 8 million people working in this country illegally, with minimal rights and legal protections. How, exactly, does that have no downward impact on wages, working conditions and job stability?

Find a solution that addresses the problem rationally and compassionately, instead of saying people are racist for having two eyes in their heads.

Someone posted an article about the "mixed results" of NAFTA a while ago, defending the Clintons. According to that article, NAFTA helped corporations, made some stuff cheaper and cost 500,000 people good jobs.

As I've said before, it's not just the jobs that vanish. It's the fact that employers at other jobs can then underpay and mistreat workers because they have nowhere else to go. I used to be an hourly employee in Los Angeles, and saw it first hand, as my wages went down 25% over the years and my benefits were slashed. Half my co-workers were college grads, like me.

AZ mentioned another phenomenon, the H-1 visa. A common practice there is to force workers to train their cheap replacements.

The Clintonian strategy, has been to embrace all of this, label anybody who has a problem racist, slash their bankruptcy protections, and de-regulate bankers and wall street.

Shockingly, it doesn't work. It's never going to work. Flush it down the toilet, along with all of it's advocates.

Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warren could be president today, and they would have won easily. The DNC and their backers made a calculated decision. They'd rather take the chance of losing, representing arms dealers, wall street and movie stars, than win representing the general population. They gambled and lost. Blame them. Fix the corrupt, self-righteous, nauseating, party that keeps losing and losing whenever Obama's not involved.

Quote: AZDuffman

You are missing what is going on in the USA. You are missing it same as most of the "educated class" is missing it. For years many Americans have been made to feel like the foreigners in our own country. EXAMPLE: Ruling on U.S. flag raises questions about students' free-speech rights. Lets not forget about Disney firing Americans and hiring a crew of HB-1s. HB-1, a program for when you cannot find an American to do the job! Illegals on welfare, and lawsuits to say they are entitled to it. India call centers where you cannot understand half of what they are saying and the help is next to useless in the first place. A thousand paper cuts.

Point this out and the elites call you a bigot. Say the border should be controlled and you get called a racist. Don't want men in the ladies room and you are a homophobe.

This is what propelled Trump. People are saying screaming "ENOUGH!"

I'm not missing that at all; I've actually been talking about it. The difference is that I understand the solution isn't to turtle and say "screw everyone else, let's retreat into our little homogenous enclaves." That's how you get entire towns going out of business when the market shifts slightly because everyone works in the same factory and nobody is diversified. And that is what's happening already, so why would you make it worse? If you don't want call centers in India, you need business regulations to force businesses to hire local call centers. If you don't want Disney to hire H1-B workers, you need more regulation to force them to hire locally. I didn't know about the flag issue in California and I admit I'm perplexed about that one. But public safety or avoiding incitement often outweighs free speech liberties -- you can't yell "fire" in a crowded theater, and if you told a cop "I'm going to walk into a biker bar and yell 'all bikers are racist cow humpers'" then it's not unreasonable that he would restrain you to avoid a riot.

But the point is that the conservative economic approach of throwing out protections and laws and allowing an unregulated free market is not the answer to any of those issues. The answer is "better laws, better worker rights, better regulations" and more control over the gears of the economy so the machine is harder to manipulate by those who have the skill to do it against the interests of those who don't. All of those are firmly liberal economic positions. Trump promises the opposite but simultaneously promises to make working lives better. If you understand how the economy works, it doesn't make sense. But voters didn't vote for Trump because they understand the economy, they voted for him because he made an boastful but empty promise and then waved his hands while shouting "Crooked Hillary!"

Here's a perfect example of a bigot. Great opportunity though. Sell GrubHub because it's going down the drain.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/11/10/boss-tells-pro-trump-employees-to-resign.html

This is the map they will never put on the front page. Somebody needs to send this to the violent cupcakes throwing a tantrum in the streets because their liberal dream of Eutopia was shattered. They need to think twice about following, like useful idiots, the instigators who have them out screaming for revolution. Mao used kids like these useful idiots to murder the populace too, but he disarmed the people first. THIS, and several other historical examples, is exactly WHY Americans will not give up our ability to defend ourselves. It was coded into the US Constitution for this EXACT REASON. The people have spoken peacefully through the election, please, clueless rioting libbies, don't take this to the next level. Get a job, do some manual labor(shoveling stalls would be a nice start), find out how NOT special you are and grow up!

Quote: MathExtremist

]I didn't know about the flag issue in California and I admit I'm perplexed about that one.

I believe you that you didn't know. It was probably not a mainstream story. If you took the people who did know, my guess is those upset about it almost all voted Trump and those who thought it was "inclusive" or whatever voted Hillary. But it is not the only example of PC gone wild.

Colleges ban Halloween costumes that are "offensive." Can't dress as an Indian Chief or Mexican Outlaw. Fraternities getting in trouble for "South of the Border" nights. Harmless things, serious consequences to the students caught in the PC Justice net.

Then you get off campus and see the pressures in other ways. Blacks are ironically getting pushed from both directions. On the bottom they are getting squeezed by Latinos, in the same neighborhoods they squeezed whites starting in the 1960s. On the other side, gentrification is causing issues. I have seen graffiti saying "KILL GOOGLE WORKERS" in a gentrifying area.

Which brings us to whites. Whites are more and more being taught that they are the scourge of the earth. Nobody cares about poor whites. Nobody. Blacks and Mexicans show pride and it makes the news. Whites show pride and the FBI shows up.

Trump caused it all? Hardly. It has been brewing, it will get worse. Much worse. Violently worse.

Quote: MaxPen

This is the map they will never put on the front page.

The only reason they wouldn't put it on the front page is because idiots would misinterpret it.

Remember the actual vote count. It's almost even in numbers of people..

Quote: MaxPen

This is the map they will never put on the front page. Somebody needs to send this to the violent cupcakes throwing a tantrum in the streets because their liberal dream of Eutopia was shattered. They need to think twice about following, like useful idiots, the instigators who have them out screaming for revolution. Mao used kids like these useful idiots to murder the populace too, but he disarmed the people first. THIS, and several other historical examples, is exactly WHY Americans will not give up our ability to defend ourselves. It was coded into the US Constitution for this EXACT REASON. The people have spoken peacefully through the election, please, clueless rioting libbies, don't take this to the next level. Get a job, do some manual labor(shoveling stalls would be a nice start), find out how NOT special you are and grow up!

This map might explain a lot of the demonstrations :



The result if only voters 18-25 were counted.

Quote: rxwine

The only reason they wouldn't put it on the front page is because idiots would misinterpret it.

Remember the actual vote count. It's almost even in numbers of people..

Right now the media and others are trying to sell the cupcakes rioting that she won the popular vote. The votes are still not all in. Dare I say, the remaining shortfalls in my opinion point to Trump winning that as well.

I would be willing take action on it.

Quote: beachbumbabs

Quote: MaxPen

This is the map they will never put on the front page. Somebody needs to send this to the violent cupcakes throwing a tantrum in the streets because their liberal dream of Eutopia was shattered. They need to think twice about following, like useful idiots, the instigators who have them out screaming for revolution. Mao used kids like these useful idiots to murder the populace too, but he disarmed the people first. THIS, and several other historical examples, is exactly WHY Americans will not give up our ability to defend ourselves. It was coded into the US Constitution for this EXACT REASON. The people have spoken peacefully through the election, please, clueless rioting libbies, don't take this to the next level. Get a job, do some manual labor(shoveling stalls would be a nice start), find out how NOT special you are and grow up!

This map might explain a lot of the demonstrations :



The result if only voters 18-25 were counted.

The indoctrination camps ( school system) was serving their masters well. If this hadn't happened all would have been lost. There is still time to save the country and send the New World Order crawling back under the rock, from which they emerged.

Way back in the late 1960's our country voted to allow the 18 to 20 year age group to vote. They mainly put it on the ballot because so many of our young people were drafted and joining the military to fight in VietNam and returning without limbs or in body bags. The younger generation of today has no idea of the chaos and fear we went through from 1966 to 1972 until the war winded down. It was rightfully believed that if a man, only men at that time, was old enough to get killed in action, he was old enough to vote.

Quote: ams288

What makes them "thugs?"

18 U.S. Code § 2385 - Advocating overthrow of Government


Whoever knowingly or willfully advocates, abets, advises, or teaches the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying the government of the United States or the government of any State, Territory, District or Possession thereof, or the government of any political subdivision therein, by force or violence, or by the assassination of any officer of any such government; or

Whoever, with intent to cause the overthrow or destruction of any such government, prints, publishes, edits, issues, circulates, sells, distributes, or publicly displays any written or printed matter advocating, advising, or teaching the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying any government in the United States by force or violence, or attempts to do so; or

Whoever organizes or helps or attempts to organize any society, group, or assembly of persons who teach, advocate, or encourage the overthrow or destruction of any such government by force or violence; or becomes or is a member of, or affiliates with, any such society, group, or assembly of persons, knowing the purposes thereof—

Quote: MichaelBluejay

But if Hillary had won, Trump supporters who threatened to overthrow the government would have been totally legitimate, I suppose. e.g. http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/28/us/politics/donald-trump-voters.html?_r=0

No, thugs on either political side are thugs no matter what.

Hugs not thugs

Heil hugs.

Obama WH staff waiting to greet Trump.



Second from the left should try to find a husband I think. Real world not working out for her.

Quote: mikeabiomed

Way back in the late 1960's our country voted to allow the 18 to 20 year age group to vote. They mainly put it on the ballot because so many of our young people were drafted and joining the military to fight in VietNam and returning without limbs or in body bags. The younger generation of today has no idea of the chaos and fear we went through from 1966 to 1972 until the war winded down. It was rightfully believed that if a man, only men at that time, was old enough to get killed in action, he was old enough to vote.

Ahhh....the good old days. Just kidding. I do believe that you should be a property owner or net tax payer to vote though. Skin in the game or net positive contributor required. Allowing illegals to vote is rediculous. Allowing net beneficiaries to vote is idiotic. Past contributors that have become that way due to any circumstance excluded. Many a country and empire has been destroyed because the populace thought they could vote their way to prosperity.

A wall of a thousand miles begins with one cinder block.

Quote: AZDuffman

Obama WH staff waiting to greet Trump.



Second from the left should try to find a husband I think. Real world not working out for her.

Wow... Just...wow, to imagine that was what was attempting to lead us. She looks like a thug stole her prayer rug out from under her. Not the greatest display of stoicism, for sure.

Time for an upgrade. Nice shovel ready job waiting to get done on time and under budget.

Quote: MaxPen

Allowing net beneficiaries to vote is idiotic.

I don't think that's what you want. For starters, here's the electoral map when only net-contributor states get electoral votes:

Every gray state on that map receives more federal tax dollars than its citizens pay.

Moreover, the wave of angry, underemployed Trump supporters are, in many cases, net beneficiaries this year. Are you really suggesting that they should have been disenfranchised?

Taking away someone's right to vote because they had a bad crop, a bad injury, or a bad run of business luck is a terrible idea. If you want economic success to determine voting rights, why not go further and make the number of votes you get proportional to your wealth? Then none of us non-billionaires matter and the election is up to who Sheldon Adelson or Mark Cuban want in the White House.