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beachbumbabs
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beachbumbabs
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Mission146
October 17th, 2018 at 8:35:34 AM permalink
Quote: rxwine

CNN the fake news channel had 5 republicans, some of whom said they had registered as Democrats because of Trump, and were voting straight Democratic tickets in the mid term.

But you know what, i'm not convinced that they're really becoming Democrats. I think they are taking a bullet, and sending a message to the GOP. When Trump and his most ardent sycophants are gone, they'll be ready to embrace the Republican party once again. Most people don't abandon long held values so easily, but I can see how they might justify a temporary abandonment feeling a urgency for a colon cleansing, so to speak.



This was the Republican Party I joined in 1976:

http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/index.php?pid=25843

The party left me long before I left the party. I hung in there, trying to be a voice for moderation and sensibility, for many years, while they continued to move, not just right, but into greed and obfuscation. Trump is the last straw, but not the only one - he's the logical, mentally ill result of the concentration of extremists into the dominant bloc within the party, that in turn pushed out millions of non-handout, non-dove members like me.

Where else are we to go? It's R vs D in nearly every race. Florida has closed primaries, as do many other states. This is tough love more than anything, correcting a power structure that approaches a dictatorship back to something more representative of actual voters.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
RogerKint
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RSMission146
October 17th, 2018 at 8:47:05 AM permalink
Yeah, it's greedy to want to keep more of what you earn but not greedy to take what someone else earns.
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beachbumbabs
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beachbumbabs
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Mission146
October 17th, 2018 at 8:54:49 AM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

This is an old thing and goes back to 2000 and Bush. On the news and in forums. The thing is this kind of person was NEVER really a Republican. Online it is some weird game they like playing. "See, I was a republican, but this guy has so turned me off, if you want me back you had better get behind someone more moderate!"

So the were republicans but "because of Trump" they are registering to vote for the party that is running on a platform of higher taxes, more regulation, open borders, preferences based on skin color, and not liking someone being grounds for impeachment.

CNN expects people to believe this?



Nonsense, as usual. See above.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
TigerWu
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Mission146
October 17th, 2018 at 8:59:45 AM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs

This was the Republican Party I joined in 1976:

http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/index.php?pid=25843



I just skimmed through much of that.

Kind of funny that many.... MANY... points made in that '76 platform would almost be seen as "leftist extremism" by today's Republicans and conservatives.

I also disagree with some points, but even the ones I do disagree with are presented as positions that could be reasonably discussed and negotiated in a bipartisan manner.

In short, '70's Republicans seem very moderate and reasonable in comparison with what we have today.

I'm assuming the Democrat platform is similarly more moderate than today's, but I don't know.
VCUSkyhawk
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lildevilLucyRogerKintRSMission146
October 17th, 2018 at 9:02:04 AM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs

that in turn pushed out millions of non-handout, non-dove members like me.



BBB, I hate to ask because I generally don't enjoy topical discussion of politics. I find that general discussions are more enjoyable, but I will ask none the less. How on earth do you consider the ACA NOT a handout? Subsidies by their very nature are handouts.
I got a plan, we take all your picks we reverse them like one of those twilight zone episodes where everything is the opposite. You say "black" we go white.
rxwine
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Mission146
October 17th, 2018 at 9:04:39 AM permalink
Quote: RogerKint

Yeah, it's greedy to want to keep more of what you earn but not greedy to take what someone else earns.



In order to make up for the progressive tax, everyone who is not in the very top percentile needs to start making payments to the wealthy.
Quasimodo? Does that name ring a bell?
beachbumbabs
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beachbumbabs
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Mission146
October 17th, 2018 at 9:11:20 AM permalink
Quote: RogerKint

Yeah, it's greedy to want to keep more of what you earn but not greedy to take what someone else earns.



It's greedy not to recognize that with great wealth facilitated by the laws and the people of this country, comes an equally great obligation to pay a significant amount of taxes. They support the infrastructure, defense, and administration of the country we share.

I recognize this, have paid federal taxes for over 40 years, and in my prime earning decades, they amounted to a sizable sum. I expect no less from other fortunate Americans.

Am I really the only taxpayer in America who resents Jared Kushner (for one recent example), in the return details they released via the NYT, getting a 4k refund by taking phantom losses against his earnings? Paying no federal taxes while living the superrich lifestyle? Seems hard to believe I'm alone in that.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
VCUSkyhawk
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RogerKintRSMission146
October 17th, 2018 at 9:18:56 AM permalink
I do not believe it is un-American to want to minimize your tax burden by any and all legal measures. Quite the opposite, I think it is very American.
I got a plan, we take all your picks we reverse them like one of those twilight zone episodes where everything is the opposite. You say "black" we go white.
RogerKint
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Mission146
October 17th, 2018 at 9:22:55 AM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs

It's greedy not to recognize that with great wealth facilitated by the laws and the people of this country, comes an equally great obligation to pay a significant amount of taxes.

I recognize this, have paid federal taxes for over 40 years, and in my prime earning decades, they amounted to a sizable sum. I expect no less from other fortunate Americans.



What you do with your hard-earned money is your business. If you choose to donate 100% of your income to the federal government I'm sure they'd be happy to have it. Instead of being a white slave for 3 months out of the year you could be one for 12 months. Everyone should have the exact same recognition as beachbumbabs or they're just plain greedy.
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beachbumbabs
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beachbumbabs
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Mission146Minty
October 17th, 2018 at 9:28:07 AM permalink
Quote: VCUSkyhawk

BBB, I hate to ask because I generally don't enjoy topical discussion of politics. I find that general discussions are more enjoyable, but I will ask none the less. How on earth do you consider the ACA NOT a handout? Subsidies by their very nature are handouts.



I consider the actual ACA a pragmatic and practical solution to a problem that costs money no matter what. As originally conceived, that is, not the guts-ripped-out, politically-sabotaged mess we have now.

There's almost no point in having that discussion, because that system has never been properly implemented, corrected for actual inequities as they came up, or allowed to work as intended. That's the greed factor again.

The ACA was designed to clean off the leeches of non-competitive private insurers, exorbitant administrative costs of private insurers even in competitive markets, insane malpractice awards, gouging, for-profit hospital overcharges, denial of services and runaway costs of treatment. It's now, after all the sabotage, the worst of all worlds, with the remnants of the bill constraining some things while spreading inequity throughout the marketplace.

Had the ACA been allowed to develop as conceived, the net cost to the vast majority of Americans would have been lower than the federal tax-supported plus health care premiums we now pay. In return, the service would have been more administratively efficient and available to more Americans.

But the losers would have been the corporate moneymakers, shareholders, and litigation industry that have powerful lobbies and own a lot of state and federal public servants. Their greed derailed the ACA, to what I think is an unrecoverable amount.

So I can't say I support the ACA at all, because it doesn't exist except as a blame mechanism.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.

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