2020 Election

Quote: AZDuffman

Watch the news, news other than CNN or PMSNBC. Every statement has been on many times.



When congress would not give Obama what he wanted, Congress was blamed.
When congress would not give Clinton what he wanted, Congress was blamed.

I am just going with history.

Congress? lmao

Was this before or after McConnell began shredding the US Constitution?

You do realize that Congress GAVE Trump what he wanted before he changed his mind, AGAIN, on what he wanted, because far rights in his party told him what to want.

Let's see. Congress offered him 25 billion in March for his stupid wall (a deal that would've grown his base). Then it went down to 5.6. Then it went down to 1.7. Then he just got 1.3.

Art of the Deal? Puh-lease.

If it gets any lower, Mexico might just pay for it.

Quote: Steverinos

increasing security at the border

I can't figure out how constantly increasing
border security. that is ineffectual and
costs more and more money every year,
is better than a one time expense of a
wall. Makes no sense.

Around your house would you build a
high wall to keep people out, or pay
more and more every year for patrolling
armed guards. The answer is obvious.

Quote: EvenBob

I can't figure out how constantly increasing
border security. that is ineffectual and
costs more and more money every year,
is better than a one time expense of a
wall. Makes no sense.

Around your house would you build a
high wall to keep people out, or pay
more and more every year for patrolling
armed guards. The answer is obvious.

Ineffectual? Wow. I would say the border patrol is effective at what they do. You should give them more credit.

“We were subsidizing those jobs so for… the city was paying for those jobs. So frankly, if we were willing to give Amazon three…if we were willing to give away $3 billion for this deal, we could invest those $3 billion in our district ourselves if we wanted to.”

https://www.ccn.com/alexandria-ocasio-cortezs-cringeworthy-reaction-to-amazons-hq2-pullout-proves-how-out-of-touch-she-really-is

She really thinks there is actually some mythical $3 billion in cash that was being given to Amazon.

I don't care whether you are "for" or "against" the deal...I think everyone here is smart enough to realize that there was no $3 billion pot of money there to give out. It is was all from taxes that would have been paid in the future.

Economics? Shouldn't she understand this before being called on it?

Quote: Steverinos

Ineffectual? Wow. I would say the border patrol is effective at what they do. You should give them more credit.

The Border Patrol will be the first to tell you that walls work. The wall near San Diego has been especially effective.

Please do not try to hide your preference for open borders behind complimenting the Border Patrol. It does not impress.

Quote: RonC

“We were subsidizing those jobs so for… the city was paying for those jobs. So frankly, if we were willing to give Amazon three…if we were willing to give away $3 billion for this deal, we could invest those $3 billion in our district ourselves if we wanted to.”

https://www.ccn.com/alexandria-ocasio-cortezs-cringeworthy-reaction-to-amazons-hq2-pullout-proves-how-out-of-touch-she-really-is

She really thinks there is actually some mythical $3 billion in cash that was being given to Amazon.

I don't care whether you are "for" or "against" the deal...I think everyone here is smart enough to realize that there was no $3 billion pot of money there to give out. It is was all from taxes that would have been paid in the future.

Economics? Shouldn't she understand this before being called on it?

But she has a BA in Economics!!!

Quote: AZDuffman

Please do not try to hide your preference for open borders behind complimenting the Border Patrol. It does not impress.

What's not impressive is presuming to know one's position about anything without asking them directly. The wall in San Diego makes sense because of it's proximity to Tijuana. And that's what Democrats are for. Barriers where it makes sense, technology where it makes sense, and agents where it makes sense.

I look forward to the day where Trump invokes eminent domain to seize the property of conservative Texas landowners. I look forward to it, only, because it will NEVER happen.

Quote: Steverinos

What's not impressive is presuming to know one's position about anything without asking them directly.

No need to ask when it is there for all to see.

Quote:

The wall in San Diego makes sense because of it's proximity to Tijuana. And that's what Democrats are for. Barriers where it makes sense, technology where it makes sense, and agents where it makes sense.

Barrier in this case makes sense. Unless you want open borders and unrestricted illegal immigration.

Quote:

I look forward to the day where Trump invokes eminent domain to seize the property of conservative Texas landowners. I look forward to it, only, because it will NEVER happen.

I would say that the ones who are tired of having to be armed to walk their property will prefer a wall to the Mexican gangs and criminals currently passing their lands.

Quote: AZDuffman

I would say that the ones who are tired of having to be armed to walk their property will prefer a wall to the Mexican gangs and criminals currently passing their lands.

You know what I would say? Let those landowners speak for themselves.

Quote: Steverinos

Ineffectual? Wow

Pretty much. If you constantly need more
and more of it, and people are streaming
across by the thousands where there is
no patrol, yeah, that's ineffectual. Like
having a boat that springs a new leak
while the old one is being fixed. That
boat is eventually sinking.

Again, should I post the videos where
Obama and Bush and Schumer all said
there was a border crisis years ago and
nobody argued with them? If it was
a crisis in 2012, why isn't it one now
when it's far worse.

Quote: Steverinos

You know what I would say? Let those landowners speak for themselves.

Many have been, for years now. Liberals say they are "racist: and take the side of the illegals.

Quote: AZDuffman

Many have been, for years now. Liberals say they are "racist."

Show me.

Quote: EvenBob

Again, should I post the videos where
Obama and Bush and Schumer all said
there was a border crisis years ago and
nobody argued with them? If it was
a crisis in 2012, why isn't it one now
when it's far worse.

Did they say Mexico will pay for it? Let Mexico pay for it.

Quote: Steverinos

I.... look forward to the day where Trump invokes eminent domain to seize the property of conservative Texas landowners. I look forward to it, only, because it will NEVER happen.

I've considered this dilemma as the ToHono O'odham tribe has fought against the wall as it would disrupt animal migration on the Arizona/Mexico border.
The solution is simple, give them a choice which side of the fence they wish to be on. Just build the wall on the US side and their land can remain whole, with a checkpoint at the US side of the rez.
The same tactic can be used where it is claimed deporting one person would stop a family from being together. Nothing is stopping the entire family from going south together. No split, easy peezy

Quote: Steverinos

Show me.

From the NYT!

I think I've already seen this article but will read it as time permits today. However, I did a search for "eminent" and "domain" and neither term was mentioned. We were specifically talking about the government seizing land by invoking eminent domain and what landowners will support. This article doesn't address that if those terms aren't mentioned.

But I'll read it anyway.

At least we made some progress on the #fakenews front. lol

Quote: Steverinos

I think I've already seen this article but will read it as time permits today. However, I did a search for "eminent" and "domain" and neither term was mentioned. We were specifically talking about the government seizing land by invoking eminent domain and what landowners will support. This article doesn't address that if those terms aren't mentioned.

I would have to assume there is already some kind of official Right-of-Way that the feds have along all of the border. My landwork does not take me to that part of the USA, but it would be hard for me to believe that the original land grants did not provide for access to the border. Same as in some states the first Patent Grants reserved so much a % for roads to be built.

Quote: rxwine

Did they say Mexico will pay for it? Let Mexico pay for it.

Did they say you can keep your doctor
and keep your current plan? Who cares
about the details, build the wall. And
it's being built as we speak..

Quote: Steverinos

I think I've already seen this article but will read it as time permits today. However, I did a search for "eminent" and "domain" and neither term was mentioned. We were specifically talking about the government seizing land by invoking eminent domain and what landowners will support. This article doesn't address that if those terms aren't mentioned.

But I'll read it anyway.

At least we made some progress on the #fakenews front. lol

I just want to make sure you realize eminent domain is not a free-for-all - the land is purchased for FMV for it's "highest and best use"

This article details eminent domain: https://mckirdyriskin.com/2016/07/28/5-things-may-not-known-eminent-domain/

Yes, I realize that.

Some of these landowners aren't too happy about how the process unfolded for them.

https://www.texastribune.org/2017/12/14/border-land-grab-government-abused-power-seize-property-fence/

Quote: EvenBob

And
it's being built as we speak..

What are you yapping about then?


Don't wise up EB.

Quote: rxwine

What are you yapping about then?

The whole thing needs to be built.

Kooky Kamala said the Smollett incident
was a 'modern day lynching' of a Black
man. She conveniently can't even
remember saying it now that it's been
exposed as a hoax.


"Kamala Harris had no problem using inflammatory rhetoric to tie the #JussieSmollettHoax to @realDonaldTrump & his supporters," Republican National Committee Chairwoman Ronna McDaniel tweeted late Monday. "Now that she has the facts, why can't she even remember her divisive language?"

Quote: EvenBob

Kooky Kamala

I love how y’all are floundering in trying to come up with clever nicknames for some of these politicians. This is at least your second one for Kamala, and you tried like 18 different ones on AOC. They just aren’t sticking...

Quote: ams288

This is at least your second one for Kamala,

No, it's the same one I used when
she announced. Now she says
she was smoking weed in
college listening to Snoop
and Tupac. Problem is, she
was in college in the 80's
and they didn't release
albums till the 90's. Kooky
Kamala.

Here she is stumbling and stammering her
way thru the Smollett question.

Quote: RS

They are mutually exclusive...are you serious? You do realize one is in the past and the other is current, right?

What kind of Socialist country are we living in, that Trump and the Republicans think the taxpayers should pay for a wall we don't want and is supposed to be paid for by Mexico?

There is no poll in his entire presidency that indicates he's doing the people's bidding in this.

There is no emergency if the next move the President makes is to go off golfing. Situation Room, seating for 1.

"That was then, this is now" is a lame and specious argument. Both parties have supported border security numerous times in the past, and still do in the present. Confusing the idiocracy by conflating a physical wall with border security is a purely political argument, dishonest at its heart and racist in its intent. You're better than that.

Quote: SOOPOO

This drives me crazy. Was the State of New York going to actually write a check to AMZN, or were they just going to collect 3 billion less in taxes over some pre determined time period? In my town, companies were recruited to build in swampy reclaimed areas by offering them decreased taxes over I think a ten year period. So they may buy a large parcel of empty land, put a fancy new factory/ office complex on it. The land was valued at a million pre build, now the whole shebang is valued at 10 million. But they only pay taxes for 10 years as if it's worth 2 million.
The Ocasio Cortez way to look at is they are stealing an 8 million dollar assessment break.
The Republican way to look at it is they are collecting double the taxes they were when it was unimproved land, and have created new permanent jobs.

I think this particular debacle by Ocasio Cortez will be her defining moment. I think I have to agree with EB, that she will be a BIG help to Republicans.

Enough people in her age group and demographic are happy that AMZN is not locating HQ2 in Long Island City. I am not going to pretend to understand the merits of the debate on both sides or the differences between democrats (who were for the deal) and socialists against the deal. Fair articles represent some compelling arguments of both sides. Queens seemed to be quite divided on the news of AMZN.

Like the GOP party that looked close to fracture when the tea party came along, the Dems witl have to deal with the ultra-left voices in their party. Keeping them in the fringe until after the 2020 convention will be key to picking the right candidate to defeat Trump.

As for Cortez, she represents a voice of an age group who understand that the dream of owning himees, of finding steady work and living the lives like their parents is no longer really possible. Taking a socialist stand against AMZN just means that they will locate HQ2 in a location that needs it. The new York economy grew by 71,000 jobs last year, and jobs will come to NYC without the incentives.

She will not be a gift for the GOP. She will mobikize the young and disenfranchised to vote and participate in the political process which usually is not good news for the GOP.

"She will not be a gift for the GOP."

Too late for that, she's a gift
tied with a red ribbon. NY has
been working on the Amazon
deal for years, won out over
200 other cities and were
ecstatic from Cuomo down
to DeBlasio. It was a huge
victory, only to be snatched
from them by ignorance and
arrogance.

Do you think they will ever
forgive her for this? It cost
them billions of dollars and
that's never forgotten or
forgiven.

Quote: boymimbo

As for Cortez, she represents a voice of an age group who understand that the dream of owning homes, of finding steady work and living the lives like their parents is no longer really possible.

No, she represents the dreams of some coddled youth who were spoiled by their parents and taught that anything they did would be okay or ones that grew up seeing people like that and admired them.

The "American Dream" is still out there...but it still requires work and sacrifice, not dependence on government. It may require relocation. It is scary, but it was scary when I was young, too--but a whole lot of us did it. Not instantly, but over time.

There are many in her age group that have figured it out and are working on the dream.

Your job may not be forever any more; that just means you have to have the flexibility to keep learning, stay out of debt, and keep some money liquid enough to get you through the rough times.

Look at the reality of AOC...she worked hard on her campaign and now has an income in the high $100s that she could have for many years to come and comes with a great pension. The Dream is alive, but she will try to convince people it is not.

Quote: boymimbo

As for Cortez, she represents a voice of an age group who understand that the dream of owning himees, of finding steady work and living the lives like their parents is no longer really possible.

No. She represents a crybaby group that thinks they deserve what others have because the others have it. The OWS crowd.

Want a home? It is possible. No, you probably will not get a job at the mill that will last forever. But that "dream" really was only there about 1950-1970.

Here is the thing. Back then you bought a very modest home to start. It probably stayed very modest. Small yard. One car, used. Travel for vacation was within a few hundred miles, not a flight to Vegas or Disney. You can buy a home now, but you do not get to start with the 2500 sq ft McMansion. You don't get closets full of clothes. You might have to work a side hustle. Oh, yeah, remember that part! Years ago people married younger and both spouses put everything towards a house.

Live like my parents? No thanks. We were always broke. Had some vacations, just to the shore a state away. Disney? Not until we were older and only because for the rest of the time we had a free condo to stay at. Didn't even know if the car would make it back. Ate out only on payday for the most part.

AOC's problem is that the girl is.......STUPID. Has a degree but clearly did not learn anything. Was she working in a job where she was using the degree? She probably is one of the folk who did not belong in college in the first place. She was selected to run in a primary by a group that never expected to win anything, just wanted very liberal candidates to drive the Democrat Party left. They succeeded.

She is a gift to the GOP because no Dem will dare call her on anything or else look racist and sexist. And as the GND showed, she does not live in reality.

Too bad my city will not get HQ2. One proposed location was right up the road about 5 miles.

Quote: EvenBob

No, it's the same one I used when
she announced.

https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/off-topic/31688-2020-election/52/#post699292

Quote: EvenBob

Kreepy Kamala

Unless in your world you think "Kooky" and "Kreepy" are the same word? lol

Quote: RonC

No, she represents the dreams of some coddled youth who were spoiled by their parents and taught that anything they did would be okay or ones that grew up seeing people like that and admired them.

The "American Dream" is still out there...but it still requires work and sacrifice, not dependence on government

Lemme see if'n I can be the link between the old and the young...

I'm (sorta) one of your modern success stories. I've been open about my personal woes and many are aware I've been in a financial pinch, you especially. I credit you personally with giving me the key to escaping poverty, and I took that key and wore it out. In '12 I got divorced and was left holding a >$30k bag. '15 / '16 I lived in poverty, trying to raise a son on $17,XXX a year. By end of '16, I was working 8-16hrs at my primary, spending every weekend night hustling what you turned me onto, and spending every other spare minute hustling whatever else I could. And I never stopped. I ended your hustle this year (too much work elsewhere caused me to miss seminar), but I've not stopped since '16. Today, I've got a $170 truck payment and that's it. I've got five figures in my retirement account and just about to hit 5 figures in my racing budget. Financially, I'm back. I won. I did it. I went and done bootstrapped myself, just as all of you and all of I keep prescribing to our peers.

Thing is, I ain't worked a day of '19. I've spent the last 49 days stuck in this chair with a SLAP tear of my dominant shoulder, and either a SLAP or rotator tear in my auxiliary. Work is done. Hustling is done. And assuming I get USA#1 yuge best healthcare, I won't see the workforce again until July if I'm lucky. I suppose I should count myself lucky (and I do) that this mishap isn't going to ruin me; I done went and made like a good ant, putting away for the future and now I have it to fall back on. But... I didn't go and kill myself with the intentions of living. I ran myself into the ground to get ahead. I did extra to get extra, ya know? But instead of extra, I wound up with essential.

Contrast that with our fathers. I recently lost the man who raised me, and I spent his last year getting to know him best I could. We spent much time talking about work; it's a topic we've oft talked about, all the way back to the days he used to tote me into his office at 3-4yrs old. He was 15 when he started. Walked into town for a job, decided to stop in this shop, and was hired. 15yrs old, 8th grade education. This would've been ~1948. By the early 1960's, while he was in his 30's, he was making $60k, an amount far under his potential, a potential that was never reached simply because he was scared to fly and so did not go international. $60k... I don't make $60k now. Have never done so, and have never really been in a situation where such heights would ever be realized. And this was 1960; in 2019 money we're talking deep into the 6 figures. All for a country dumb, uneducated hillbilly doing factory work in his own sleepy hometown of ~2k people. Which brings me to this...

Quote: RonC

Your job may not be forever any more; that just means you have to have the flexibility to keep learning, stay out of debt, and keep some money liquid enough to get you through the rough times.

...and this^^^ is not the dream I was sold. For sure life is not a cakewalk. Health is random, hope you're lucky. S#$% happens, be prepared. The struggles of life are innumerable, and a only a desperate few can ever be truly prepared for. But any man willing to work should be able to find life sustaining work without having to destroy his life or his self to acquire it. That IS the dream I was sold. That IS the freedom I was promised. If I wanted to be an astronaut, the president, maybe run the world someday, I could. But if I just wanted to stay in the woods, I could do that, too. Now I'm here and y'all tell me the rules have changed. That makes me angry.

So where to direct this anger? Who sold me a dream and then stole it during the transaction? I'm not a learned man, I can't math my way out of this. Alls I can do it look for info and start swinging at likely targets. I think back to GPops and his country dumb success and think of just how much more efficient we are nowadays than he was in his. This dude's career predates the invention of the f#$%ing chainsaw, ferchrissakes. Today with computers we have blown his productivity not only out of the water but out of the atmosphere, yet... there's not many country dumb grunts making $60k anymore, is there? How many of you are children of folks who lived at the mill or the plant? Of immigrants who came with nothing but managed to give you the world? That IS the dream I was sold. So, where the f#$% is it? How do you explain GPops' boss' salary rising 984% since he walked in the door, while the grunt on the floor's has only risen 9%? How do you explain double or triple figure layoffs due to "poor performance" while the CEO for that very same business takes home 600 worker's pay as a "bonus" for being complete dogs#$% and destroying a company and its worker's livelihoods? I don't get this modern idea of compensation and ethics. Further than "don't get it", I f#$%ing loathe it. And now you want to add "corporations are people" and "money is speech" to this already FUBAR mess?

No. F#$% that. I'm done, and when I'm done, I mean it. That means I care not a whit about anything else other than the fact that "I'm done". And that's how you create one issue voters. It's entirely why I supported candidate Trump, and why I'm STILL glad he's in, even though I hate his f#$%ing guts and almost everything he does or says. And it's why I lend that same support to people such as Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. I don't think she's brilliant; hell, her "amazing viral video" pointing out the potential for fraud and political malfeasance damn near made me stroke out, as I couldn't see how something so goddamn obvious could ever be lauded as such a "brave" thing to "expose". But I like her. I enjoy her shake up and I enjoy the discomfort I see she causes people. I don't think she has "the answer", I might even think her ways could be damaging. To that I say "good". It's about time we start breaking s#$% around here, because what we have is f#$%ed up. Hell, find me a voodoo priestess with points into resurrection and I'd cast a vote for Marx himself. I ain't no big-S Socialist, but at least Karl understood the importance of an armed populace =p

I guess my point of all this is that we feel abandoned, and then when trying to communicate this, we're called "lazy", "unproductive", or "soft", as if it's our fault. I still spend 100+ days at my GPops old job; it's now a Superfund site that leaks benzene, toluene, and some sort of orange foam out of the rocks and into my fishing hole. This site sits on one of the best natural runs of steelhead in the world, and I'm looking at it out my back window right now. Kinda hard not to see what capitalism has taken, and what it has left behind. We care about the environment; global warming arguments aside, we know that all of this s#$% is finite, and we're coming to understand that the value of nature trumps all things, even the God of Capital. This is a trait disparaged as "less manly", a liberal trait, or even "gay". We realize that capitalism is pretty keen, but it's also dreadfully finite. We can see it clearly today when some new app or game or craze hits the street, and it's really pretty sweet, and then the monetization goes into hyper drive, like 3 people get filthy rich, and all that's left in a few years is the smoking ruin of the product and a bunch of unhappy people in its wake. Have we already forgotten how the sweetest little internet scrapbook turned into the largest surveillance network in world history? How's that bit of unregulated, raw capitalism working out?

Y'all didn't want to listen. Now we have Tia Cortez and Uncle Bern. I say good. Let's break some s#$%.

I'm okay with breaking a few things. I spent time with a corporate CEO and his wife a few months ago and they are not making 100x the salary of their employees. They do well but they have put their very existence into a company without the guarantee of success. They work hard to take care of their employees and to keep the costs in line so the business stays viable and grows.

So...these guys that make 100x their employees and aren't possibly really worth that amount...well, I have a problem with that. I'm not sure how to fix it, but I am sure AOC's Socialism won't fix it. We need a lot of these companies to continue and grow and we need good people to lead them. How then do you do that--regulate, without taking ownership of, the greed at the top. Make it somehow cost them more to make multiples of 100x that of your average grunt employee? If the CEO can prove to me how it was just him making the company grow, I could understand the salary disparity...but I doubt many of them can probe anything close to that.

There will always need to be a little socialism mixed with capitalism. We need a firm and fair safety net to help those who need it without trapping people in the net because they see no better way out.

I don't consider any man or woman who is truly trying to make it "soft" or "lazy" but there is a significant group of people out there who don't know the meaning of "hustle" but they want the benefits of it. I have a brother in law that hasn't worked in years now who asks for money regularly. He wouldn't know hustle if it smacked him in the head.

Quote: Face

How's that bit of unregulated, raw capitalism working out?

The boomers grew up in a time of uninterrupted prosperity, inherited a vibrant and rich economy, took it for granted, and is leaving NOTHING to the next generations that even remotely resembles what they inherited. They habitually cut their own taxes while ignoring our infrastructure, education, and climate change. The ironic thing is that they want to Make America Great Again. I'm assuming this means taking us back to a time when it was great? You know what time that is? BEFORE the boomers started running things, at both the corporate and government level. If they truly wanted to MAGA, they'd get out of the way!

Debt-to-GDP ratio

Anybody look at that chart and just brush it off like no big deal? YOU are the problem.

Wealth Inequality in America

If you look at that data and think that's the way it should be because of, I guess hard work?, then YOU are the problem.

Inflation-adujusted middle class wages have been nearly frozen for 40 years while earnings at the op 1% have nearly tripled. The economic mobility engine is stalling, and it is OBVIOUS. I saw a stat that has always stuck out to me and I'm currently looking for the source because I want to source it for everyone. The average middle class family is 5% less wealthy today than families in 1970, even though the average family today is FAR MORE LIKELY to have two wage earners instead of one. If you think that this is somehow the way it's supposed to be, then YOU are the problem. Get out of the way!

I personally believe that the solution is STARING us in the face. Trickle-down economics has been a complete FAILURE and that data is clear. It's not even close! Let's get back to a time before this economic myth was the answer to everything out of one our political parties.

It's time to raise taxes guys. Tax ordinary income at pre-trickle down levels and raise the capital gains. Instead, we just cut it, AGAIN, when the data is staring us in the face that it does NOT work! You might juice up some numbers for a little bit, but the data is clear that it does not work in the long term. The problem is the GOP will never admit to it and the longer the electorate refuses to hold them accountable, the longer our infrastructure continues to deteriorate, income inequality continues to widen, and the bitter polarization and dysfunctional government that has become normalized will worsen.

Face that was a beautifully written post. It connects so wholly with what many people my age are experiencing and they are exhausted. Tired of feeling hopeless about career gains. Frustrated when they see the years go by without any changes. These aren't people with their hands out; they are sometimes working two or three jobs or a job and college. The American Dream is fundamentally different than it was and now when we point that out we're insulted for it.

Quote: ams288

Unless in your world you think "Kooky" and "Kreepy" are the same word? lol

LOL! Thank you, I had completely forgotten
it was Kreepy, not Kooky. Now I can go back
to Kreepy, it's perfect.

Thanks for finding that..

Thank god...

2020: Bernie Sanders Announces White House Bid

Bernie will be 80 in 2021, the year
the president is sworn in. This will
cement even further Hillary running
again, wait and see.

Quote: EvenBob

Thank god...

2020: Bernie Sanders Announces White House Bid

Bernie will be 80 in 2021, the year
the president is sworn in. This will
cement even further Hillary running
again, wait and see.

What kind of twisted logic made you come to that conclusion?

Quote: Minty

The American Dream is fundamentally different than it was

Not really. The problem is, young people
now are impatient, they want it fast fast
fast. They aren't willing to start small,
and slowly build. They've been lied to
by colleges and the media.

I knew a guy a couple years ago who
owned an employment agency for
45 years. He placed people in jobs.
He started it in the late 60's. He says
the biggest difference between then
and now is, college grads now have this
huge sense of entitlement when he
interviews them.

They want everything as soon as possible.
Huge house, luxury SUV, expensive
vacations. They want what their parents
and grandparents had, but they don't
want to pay their dues to get it.

They have lists of the jobs they'll accept,
all way out of their reach as young college
grads. When he tells them he can get them
assistant manager jobs in retail, some of
them break down sobbing.

The American Dream hasn't changed, it's
the attitude on how to get it that changed.
My parents lived it, but within their means.
Nobody wants that now, they all want to
live at the top. Ridiculous.

Quote: rxwine

What kind of twisted logic made you come to that conclusion?

Friends of Hillary say she's still considering
it. This means she's already made up her
mind to do it. Bernie running again will
only further cement it in her mind. 2016
all over again.

Quote: Steverinos

<snipped for berevity>

It's time to raise taxes guys. Tax ordinary income at pre-trickle down levels and raise the capital gains. Instead, we just cut it, AGAIN, when the data is staring us in the face that it does NOT work! You might juice up some numbers for a little bit, but the data is clear that it does not work in the long term. The problem is the GOP will never admit to it and the longer the electorate refuses to hold them accountable, the longer our infrastructure continues to deteriorate, income inequality continues to widen, and the bitter polarization and dysfunctional government that has become normalized will worsen.

And raising taxes is supposed to increase wealth HOW exactly? Please explain how on earth stealing more money from some people helps things? Please, for example, explain how stealing wealth from people who invest in my industry, oil and gas, will let more wells be drilled and let me work more. Please, because I just do not get it.

Didn't Obama just spend an extra $850 Billion on infrastructure? What happened there? Why is it all still crumbling?

The problem is folks like yourself keep blaming "the GOP" as if the GOP has run things for the past 40 years. Quit asking the feds to steal money from someone else so you are living better in comparison and go out and stake your own claim. Jobs in the skilled trades go empty, but people keep getting useless degrees in college, find they are unmarketable, work at SBUX, and you want to blame "the GOP?"

Really, this "blame the GOP" line is tiring.

Quote: Minty

Face that was a beautifully written post. It connects so wholly with what many people my age are experiencing and they are exhausted. Tired of feeling hopeless about career gains. Frustrated when they see the years go by without any changes. These aren't people with their hands out; they are sometimes working two or three jobs or a job and college. The American Dream is fundamentally different than it was and now when we point that out we're insulted for it.

Skip the college, learn a trade. Get an IT certification, or a few. Oh, and careers are a slow thing. Expect to toil in obscurity until your late 20s at best, probably mid-30s. This is how it worked in those good old days. Or work and get good at sales if you want to make good money. Start your own business. I have seen so many people do extremely well just doing service work for dem wascaly wich people they want to tax to death.

Nobody ever did well waiting for some politician to hand things to them.

Quote: AZDuffman

Skip the college, learn a trade. Get an IT certification, or a few. Oh, and careers are a slow thing. Expect to toil in obscurity until your late 20s at best, probably mid-30s. This is how it worked in those good old days. Or work and get good at sales if you want to make good money. Start your own business. I have seen so many people do extremely well just doing service work for dem wascaly wich people they want to tax to death.

Nobody ever did well waiting for some politician to hand things to them.

Those who would tell you the dream no longer exists are wrong. It took those people with long careers quite a while to get "comfortable"; it wasn't instant.

I still have a basic problem with companies paying someone 100x the average employee salary to be CEO when the performance of the company does not change during the CEO's tenure...or goes downhill. I wish the market, or the stockholders, would fix that. It is kind of like sports teams that hire the same losing coaches over and over again. Some of these folks are not "great" CEOs...but they get "great" CEO money.

The path to the dream is different and we do need to change some things--like placing more value in blue collar work like plumbers and electricians, both fields where people can make good money without a college education but have to be willing to learn and get their hands dirty.

Not everyone attains the dream. Just like the boomers...not every one of them attained the dream.

Quote: AZDuffman

And raising taxes is supposed to increase wealth HOW exactly? Please explain how on earth stealing more money from some people helps things? Please, for example, explain how stealing wealth from people who invest in my industry, oil and gas, will let more wells be drilled and let me work more. Please, because I just do not get it.

Didn't Obama just spend an extra $850 Billion on infrastructure? What happened there? Why is it all still crumbling?

The problem is folks like yourself keep blaming "the GOP" as if the GOP has run things for the past 40 years. Quit asking the feds to steal money from someone else so you are living better in comparison and go out and stake your own claim. Jobs in the skilled trades go empty, but people keep getting useless degrees in college, find they are unmarketable, work at SBUX, and you want to blame "the GOP?"

Really, this "blame the GOP" line is tiring.

When did Obama spend 850 billion on infrastructure? I sincerely hope you aren't referring to the stimulus. Please...please tell me you aren't referring to the stimulus. I think the final report had the money that went to "public investment", which covered all kinds of things OTHER THAN infrastructure, at 34% of the 800 billion. Do the math. You are uninformed.

Raising taxes allows the government to bring in more revenue, which allows them to invest in programs like infrastructure (which is the closest thing there is to a free lunch in economics), which creates jobs you can RAISE FAMILIES on, which means those folks are spending money in the economy, which means the demand for your oil and gas industry is INCREASED, which means investments in your industry is increased.

It's a disagreement about where the economic loop starts. I believe the data is quite clear and is pretty hard to argue against. The economic cycle starts with consumers, NOT shareholders.

Quit asking feds to steal from someone else? LMFAO. I'm asking the feds to go back to pre trickle-down tax policy. Ya know, back when America was "great" and people didn't cry socialism. Back when they didn't call it "stealing". Back when the top marginal tax rate was 90%. Back in the 50s, BEFORE the baby boomer generation started making decisions that forced them to yearn for the days when America was great.

Quote: RonC

Those who would tell you the dream no longer exists are wrong. It took those people with long careers quite a while to get "comfortable"; it wasn't instant.

I still have a basic problem with companies paying someone 100x the average employee salary to be CEO when the performance of the company does not change during the CEO's tenure...or goes downhill. I wish the market, or the stockholders, would fix that. It is kind of like sports teams that hire the same losing coaches over and over again. Some of these folks are not "great" CEOs...but they get "great" CEO money.

We do have an ongoing agency problem in the USA. Part the law of unintended consequences. Part of the Clinton Tax Hike of 1993 was limiting what corporations could deduct of CEO salaries. To "get them." Stock options replaced salary. The market boomed. Execs made out well. Class warriors wondered what on earth happened.

Even when the CEO is who's money is at stake (Zuke, Bezos, etc) and they deserve it all, the class warriors still want more. In that way, it will never end.

Quote:

The path to the dream is different and we do need to change some things--like placing more value in blue collar work like plumbers and electricians, both fields where people can make good money without a college education but have to be willing to learn and get their hands dirty.

Not everyone attains the dream. Just like the boomers...not every one of them attained the dream.

My parents were the silent generation. And it was years before we had 2 cars. I was an adult before we had central air, and part of the house still didn't have it being a converted attic. My dad died without ever having bought a new car. I live very modest to not have to worry about high mortgage payments. It was never as easy as they made it out to be.

And almost every trip to the courthouse I see an F-350 with an engine-driven welder in the bed. That guy is making six figures. He is in the weather, I am not. Hard to say who makes out.

Quote: RonC

Not everyone attains the dream. Just like the boomers...not every one of them attained the dream.

Your dream has to be in line
with your capabilities, or you're
screwed. Many people dream
way too big for their ability
to attain it, and they end up in
huge debt and bitter.

The Peter Principle applies to
everybody, it just happens a
lot sooner to many people.

Quote: AZDuffman

My parents were the silent generation. And it was years before we had 2 cars.

My dad was 32 before he owned a
house, and he built it himself from
a kit. He was 35 before he owned
a car, 45 when they had 2 cars.

That was his dream, and he got there.
Home ownership, no debt, 2 cars.
Only took him 25 years. Kids now want
all of that by the time they're 25, not
25 years after they graduate.

Quote: Steverinos

When did Obama spend 850 billion on infrastructure? I sincerely hope you aren't referring to the stimulus. Please...please tell me you aren't referring to the stimulus. I think the final report had the money that went to "public investment", which covered all kinds of things OTHER THAN infrastructure, at 34% of the 800 billion. Do the math. You are uninformed.

Yes, the stimulus. The "shovel ready jobs" we all heard about. It was for infrastructure. Not my fault the liberals threw all that cash away somewhere else.

Quote:

Raising taxes allows the government to bring in more revenue, which allows them to invest in programs like infrastructure (which is the closest thing there is to a free lunch in economics), which creates jobs you can RAISE FAMILIES on, which means those folks are spending money in the economy, which means the demand for your oil and gas industry is INCREASED, which means investments in your industry is increased.

No. Raising taxers does not bring in more revenue. Learn about the Laffer Curve. Or better yet, find a 1990s version of SimCity and see if a 90% rate brings in more taxes. Your problem is you think that without government nothing will happen. When the government steals money from people, it is not there to invest. When it is not there to invest, businesses are not started.

Quote:

It's a disagreement about where the economic loop starts. I believe the data is quite clear and is pretty hard to argue against. The economic cycle starts with consumers, NOT shareholders.

Shareholders are the rightful owners. I own shares in several companies. Why do you think the government will spend my money better than me? Why don't you just invest instead of asking the feds to steal someone else's money? Taxes are theft, plain and simple.

Quote:

Quit asking feds to steal from someone else? LMFAO. I'm asking the feds to go back to pre trickle-down tax policy. Ya know, back when America was "great" and people didn't cry socialism. Back when they didn't call it "stealing". Back when the top marginal tax rate was 90%. Back in the 50s, BEFORE the baby boomer generation started making decisions that forced them to yearn for the days when America was great.

IOW, you are asking them to steal form someone else. Until **YOU** are willing to pay 90% you are just looking like a greedy person who thinks they deserve something just because someone else has it.

Quote: AZDuffman

Taxes are theft, plain and simple.

Guess we have to cancel the wall.

Newspaper in Alabama is calling for the Klan to invade the gated communities of the state and ride to DC to lynch the Communists-Socialist in Congress.
Nuff Said.