Remember When

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LV 1957 - tough looking hombres - don't wanna mess with these dudes - not gonna try and slide the dice here

edit: one more pic of old LV added









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Atlantic City was a haven for vice long before casinos came

Prohibition wasn't enforced and the booze flowed freely

prostitution and gambling flourished too

the rackets were controlled by one man - a political boss - Enoch 'Nucky' Johnson - he was the Kingpin

he took kickbacks from the racketeers in exchange for allowing them to operate

he was quoted as saying "we have whiskey, women, wine, song and slot machines and I won't apologize for it. It's what the people want."

it all dried up when Nucky was convicted of income tax evasion in 1941 and sentenced to 10 years in prison

until, of course, the casinos came in the 70s



https://www.njonlinegambling.com/atlantic-city-history/



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when horse racing was King
no competition for the gambling $$$ except in LV -
can you believe separate windows just for betting $2.00 to place______?
it was a challenge just to get a bet down
get shut out and watch your nag win - what a sick feeling













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Quote: lilredrooster

_______________


when horse racing was King
no competition for the gambling $$$ except in LV -
can you believe separate windows just for betting $2.00 to place______?
it was a challenge just to get a bet down
get shut out and watch your nag win - what a sick feeling













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link to original post

If there is a Triple Crown possibility, Belmont can get like that on Belmont Stakes Day. The rest of the year it draws more flies than people since it doesn't have gaming.

Quote: billryan

If there is a Triple Crown possibility, Belmont can get like that on Belmont Stakes Day. The rest of the year it draws more flies than people since it doesn't have gaming.
link to original post

true, but Saratoga is still able to draw crowds on ordinary days
as can Gulfstream and Santa Anita to a lesser extent

even though no need to show up in person to wager

but still, not like shown in the pics - those are hungry gamblers with no other place to go to get satisfied


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One Belmont , about ten-fifteen years ago, you had the perfect storm of a very popular horse going for the Crown and unusually hot weather. The enclosed grandstand area had to be near 100 degrees, and there was no place to go to escape the heat and the crowd. Dozens were treated for heat-related illnesses and afterward, it was said the Fire Marshalls almost shut down the track.

The 2004 Belmont drew a record 120,000 but the weather was mild. The 2014 race drew just over 100,000 and the weather was stifling, especially in the grandstand. After that race, it was dictated that attendance is limited to 90,000. Most years, they get about half of that if the TC isn't on the line.
They recently built a hockey arena in what used to be the overflow parking lots that were only needed in the case of a potential TC winner, so I'm not sure what they'll do in the future.
In the 1970s, Belmont experimented with having rock concerts in conjunction with Sunday racing.
Nick Lowe and Rockpile were the first and attracted a few thousand extra fans. Jimmy Buffet was next and drew maybe 10,000 extra. The next concert was Dave Mason and some 50,000 rock fans showed up. I was there and it was a weird atmosphere. There were many fights in the crowd and the tiny security force couldn't contain the crowd as they trampled down barricades and the crowd spilled into off-limit areas. With space at a premium, hundreds of fans climbed into the trees surrounding the park. With the increasingly popular Blondie as the next show, the NYRA decided to ditch the experiment and canceled all future shows. The Dave Mason concert day had almost 60,000 paid admissions but the gambling rake was less than half of the day before with 20,000 people.
Where they really screwed up was the concert was scheduled for after the ninth race but the park charged $2 admission until the third race and $8 afterward so everyone came early and had nothing to do for hours.

Quote: lilredrooster

_______________


when horse racing was King
no competition for the gambling $$$ except in LV -
can you believe separate windows just for betting $2.00 to place______?
it was a challenge just to get a bet down
get shut out and watch your nag win - what a sick feeling













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link to original post

I think I saw my father in those pictures.

My Uncle was a huge horse player and owned a couple of nags. He told me that if the 1940s/1950s, $2 would buy you one ticket or 12 mugs of beer. My grandparents ran a book out of their bar and allowed bets as low as ten cents. The minimum wage didn't crack $2 until the mid-70s, so horse racing was not for the middle/lower class.
When I was a little boy, the most famous horse in the country was Carry Back, and my sister and I got to ride on him. Ten years later, we got a private viewing with Secretariat, with about forty people watching him resting up a few days after the Belmont.

Quote: billryan

My Uncle was a huge horse player and owned a couple of nags. He told me that if the 1940s/1950s, $2 would buy you one ticket or 12 mugs of beer. My grandparents ran a book out of their bar and allowed bets as low as ten cents. The minimum wage didn't crack $2 until the mid-70s, so horse racing was not for the middle/lower class.
When I was a little boy, the most famous horse in the country was Carry Back, and my sister and I got to ride on him. Ten years later, we got a private viewing with Secretariat, with about forty people watching him resting up a few days after the Belmont.
link to original post

I was a Pinkerton at Belmont in 1979. I got to guard Spectacular Bid (meaning standing there watching him in the paddock area). I also once was assigned to guard the Budweiser Clydesdales. They are big ass horses…

Quote: SOOPOO

Quote: billryan

My Uncle was a huge horse player and owned a couple of nags. He told me that if the 1940s/1950s, $2 would buy you one ticket or 12 mugs of beer. My grandparents ran a book out of their bar and allowed bets as low as ten cents. The minimum wage didn't crack $2 until the mid-70s, so horse racing was not for the middle/lower class.
When I was a little boy, the most famous horse in the country was Carry Back, and my sister and I got to ride on him. Ten years later, we got a private viewing with Secretariat, with about forty people watching him resting up a few days after the Belmont.
link to original post

I was a Pinkerton at Belmont in 1979. I got to guard Spectacular Bid (meaning standing there watching him in the paddock area). I also once was assigned to guard the Budweiser Clydesdales. They are big ass horses…
link to original post

Their stable in St. Louis is cleaner than half the restaurant kitchens you will ever see.

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I used to go to a tiny trotter track in the Maryland sticks - Rosecroft
I didn't know anything about racing at the time - but it was so much fun - it was much more fun then when I took betting so very seriously
they ran at night - and it was a raucous crowd cheering and such - pretty much nobody knew anything - but plenty of dudes talked some trash pretending they knew a lot

the entire win pool was only something like $1,200

one night a show plunger bet $100K on a 2/5 shot - you could see the money go in on the board

it won and of course only paid $2.10 - the fool could have lost a hundred grand



it's quite amazing when you get up close to the jocks and see how little they really are
they only weigh about 110 and are generally about 4'11" to 5'6"
I saw a jock at Laurel who was unusually tall - maybe 5'10" - he was painfully thin
the best of them are really strong for somebody that size - all muscle - tough little dudes


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Quote: SOOPOO

I was a Pinkerton at Belmont in 1979. I got to guard Spectacular Bid (meaning standing there watching him in the paddock area). I also once was assigned to guard the Budweiser Clydesdales. They are big ass horses…

Why do you hide behind this doctor persona when you could brag about your glamorous lifestyle of protecting Clydesdales?

Remember when.... February 10 1981 8 people were killed in a fire set by a busboy at the Las Vegas Hilton hotel-casino

Quote: avianrandy

Remember when.... February 10 1981 8 people were killed in a fire set by a busboy at the Las Vegas Hilton hotel-casino
link to original post

I don't remember this fire. Strange as I remember the MGM fire a few months earlier.

"At approximately 8:00 p.m. on Tuesday, February 10, 1981, eight people died and 350 were injured as a result of a fire at the largest hotel in the United States, the Las Vegas Hilton. This fire has a great deal of technical significance because of exterior, vertical fire spread that involved 22 floors."

yep that's the one. From the today in history column of the newspaper February 10

Quote: DRich

Quote: SOOPOO

I was a Pinkerton at Belmont in 1979. I got to guard Spectacular Bid (meaning standing there watching him in the paddock area). I also once was assigned to guard the Budweiser Clydesdales. They are big ass horses…

Why do you hide behind this doctor persona when you could brag about your glamorous lifestyle of protecting Clydesdales?
link to original post

Like he needs something else on his list to brag about, quit encouraging him.

I thought I'd search for Pinkerton at Belmont and the first thing I landed on was this headline from the New York Times:
AIRPLANE KILLS GUARD.; Pinkerton Man Is Hit While Keeping Belmont Race Crowd Back. - June 4, 1919

Here's something about a guy named Pinkerton.
Allan Pinkerton (25 August 1819 - 1 July 1884) was a Scottish American detective and spy, best known for creating the Pinkerton National Detective Agency. ..

Pinkerton (detective agency) - Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinkerton_(detective_agency)
Pinkerton is a private security guard and detective agency established around 1850 in the United States by Scottish-born cooper Allan Pinkerton and Chicago attorney Edward Rucker as the North-Western Police Agency, which later became Pinkerton & Co, and finally the Pinkerton National Detective Agency.

August Belmont - Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/August_Belmont
August Belmont Sr. (born August Schönberg; December 8, 1813 – November 24, 1890) was a German-American financier, diplomat, politician and party chairman of the Democratic National Committee, and also a horse-breeder and racehorse owner. He was the founder and namesake of the Belmont Stakes, third leg of the Triple Crown series of American Thoroughbred horse racing.

Belmont Stakes - Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belmont_Stakes
The first Belmont Stakes was held at Jerome Park Racetrack in The Bronx, built in 1866 by stock market speculator Leonard Jerome (1817–1891) and financed by August Belmont Sr. (1816–1890), for whom the race was named. The first race in 1867 saw the filly Ruthless win, while the following year was won by General Duke.[4] The race continued to be held at Jerome Park until 1890, when it was moved to the nearby facility, Morris Park Racecourse.[5] The 1895 race was almost not held because of new laws that banned bookmaking in New York: it was eventually rescheduled for November 2.[6] The race remained at Morris Park Racecourse until the May 1905 opening of the new Belmont Park, 430-acre (1.7 km2) racetrack in Elmont, New York, on Long Island, just outside the New York City borough of Queens.[5] When anti-gambling legislation was passed in New York State, Belmont Racetrack was closed, and the race was cancelled in 1911 and 1912.[7]
The first winner of the Triple Crown was Sir Barton, in 1919, before the series was recognized as such.[8] In 1920, the Belmont was won by the great Man o' War, who won by 20 lengths, setting a new stakes and American record, while under a stout pull.[9]

Hart–Agnew Law - Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hart%E2%80%93Agnew_Law
Although the Hart–Agnew law was regularly referred to as the anti-racing law,[5] horse racing did continue under the interpretation that oral betting between patrons was still legal. However, Governor Hughes ensured the law was strictly enforced [6] and on June 15, 1908, The New York Times reported that 150 police officers plus more than fifty in plain clothes arrived at Gravesend Race Track on Coney Island to uphold the new law.[7] Their instructions were to arrest men who congregated in groups of more than three and arrest anyone who was seen writing anything on a newspaper, a racing program or even a piece of plain paper that might be construed as betting.

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a look back at one of my all time faves - the great Pistol Pete
he was so much fun to watch
at 4:12 he hits the most amazing outside shot I've ever seen in my entire life
at 3:51 he makes Celtics Hall of Famer Dave Cowens look really, really bad - it's comical
lots of other amazing stuff in the vid







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the great Muhammad Ali had all he could handle with the Canadian George Chuvalo

he beat Chuvalo twice on points but never knocked him down

after the first fight Ali spend the night in the hospital - he was pissing blood

he called Chuvalo "the toughest guy I ever fought"

Chuvalo was never knocked down in 93 fights and also fought Frazier and Foreman



at 2:50 in the vid he gets to Ali pretty good but can't knock him down











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Henry Cooper and Joe Frazier knocked down the great Muhammad Ali.

Cooper lost the fight anyway

Frazier won that fight but lost the other 2 to Ali

Remember the first time you had to pump your own gas? What a pain in the ass, now we don't even think about it.
The girlfriend I had in California in the late seventies hated it so much she would drive way out of her way to go to the only gas station in town that had non-self serve. What an amazing treat that was to sit in your car on your ass while somebody else pumped your gas. You paid them and they gave you the change and you never got out of your car, they would even check your oil if you wanted. I can't imagine it now.

Quote: EvenBob

Remember the first time you had to pump your own gas? What a pain in the ass, now we don't even think about it.
The girlfriend I had in California in the late seventies hated it so much she would drive way out of her way to go to the only gas station in town that had non-self serve. What an amazing treat that was to sit in your car on your ass while somebody else pumped your gas. You paid them and they gave you the change and you never got out of your car, they would even check your oil if you wanted. I can't imagine it now.
link to original post

I can imagine the full service experience, in fact it happens every time I fill up in New Jersey. Self-service gas is still forbidden there.

Quote: UP84

Quote: EvenBob

Remember the first time you had to pump your own gas? What a pain in the ass, now we don't even think about it.
The girlfriend I had in California in the late seventies hated it so much she would drive way out of her way to go to the only gas station in town that had non-self serve. What an amazing treat that was to sit in your car on your ass while somebody else pumped your gas. You paid them and they gave you the change and you never got out of your car, they would even check your oil if you wanted. I can't imagine it now.
link to original post

I can imagine the full service experience, in fact it happens every time I fill up in New Jersey. Self-service gas is still forbidden there.
link to original post

Oregon also (although the rules are relaxed), if memory serves.

At the 1964 Worlds Fair in NYC, they had modernistic gas stations that were supposed to represent the future. As soon as you pulled up to the pump, your car was assaulted by at least a half dozen uniformed guys that checked your oil and tires, cleaned all the windows, and offered the passengers maps and samples. It wasn't an official park attraction but a thrill to go through as a kid.
A weird childhood memory- My Aunt and Uncle took my sister and me to the fair, and I'm sure they treated us well, but I can't say I have any memory of that particular day except this- When we were leaving, my Uncle passed on gassing up there because he said he could fill up closer to home for two cents a gallon cheaper.

Quote: billryan

At the 1964 Worlds Fair in NYC, they had modernistic gas stations that were supposed to represent the future. As soon as you pulled up to the pump, your car was assaulted by at least a half dozen uniformed guys that checked your oil and tires, cleaned all the windows, and offered the passengers maps and samples. It wasn't an official park attraction but a thrill to go through as a kid.
A weird childhood memory- My Aunt and Uncle took my sister and me to the fair, and I'm sure they treated us well, but I can't say I have any memory of that particular day except this- When we were leaving, my Uncle passed on gassing up there because he said he could fill up closer to home for two cents a gallon cheaper.
link to original post

Saving 35 cents at the pump in 1964 was a pack of cigarettes, or a pound of ground beef, or three cans of Campbell's tomato soup. Cigarettes in a machine were 35 cents, ground beef was generally 3 lb for a dollar and Campbell's tomato soup was either 10 or 12 cents a can in 1964.

I was barred from going to the 1964 World's Fair because of my age, my brother got to go though. I don't know what I missed. I was hanging out in northern NJ for a short vacation at the time. I'm also sure my parents wouldn't spend $1 on me for such fun, maybe a relative paid for my brother's $1 admission.

The fair ran for two six-month seasons, April 22 – October 18, 1964, and April 21 – October 17, 1965. Admission price for adults (13 and older) was $2.00 in 1964 (equivalent to $17.47 in 2021 after calculating for inflation). Admission in 1965 increased to $2.50 (equivalent to $21.5 in 2021 after calculating for inflation). In both years, children (2–12) admission cost $1.00 (equivalent to $8.74 in 2021 after calculating for inflation). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1964_New_York_World%27s_Fair
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As far as gas prices, I'm seeing 50 cents cheaper if I drive 15 miles away. So if I fill up with 10 gallons at $4/gallon for $40, I could spend 1.5 gallons driving 30 miles round trip at 20 mpg to get gas at $3.50/gallon just to save $5, which is less than the $6 I just spent driving.

Quote: ChumpChange

I was barred from going to the 1964 World's Fair because of my age, my brother got to go though. I don't know what I missed. I was hanging out in northern NJ for a short vacation at the time. I'm also sure my parents wouldn't spend $1 on me for such fun, maybe a relative paid for my brother's $1 admission.

The fair ran for two six-month seasons, April 22 – October 18, 1964, and April 21 – October 17, 1965. Admission price for adults (13 and older) was $2.00 in 1964 (equivalent to $17.47 in 2021 after calculating for inflation). Admission in 1965 increased to $2.50 (equivalent to $21.5 in 2021 after calculating for inflation). In both years, children (2–12) admission cost $1.00 (equivalent to $8.74 in 2021 after calculating for inflation). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1964_New_York_World%27s_Fair
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As far as gas prices, I'm seeing 50 cents cheaper if I drive 15 miles away. So if I fill up with 10 gallons at $4/gallon for $40, I could spend 1.5 gallons driving 30 miles round trip at 20 mpg to get gas at $3.50/gallon just to save $5, which is less than the $6 I just spent driving.
link to original post

Although the fair seemed crowded whenever I went, overall attendance was disappointing and the second year I remember discounts and coupons were everywhere. I remember kids paying fifty cents, but it could have been with a coupon.
I was a kid so I could be mistaken but I think the admission price just got you onto the grounds and you had to pay to go into the various halls and on the rides. It had dinosaurs, cars that drove on water, a monorail, and a zillion things for kids.

Quote: UP84

Quote: EvenBob

Remember the first time you had to pump your own gas? What a pain in the ass, now we don't even think about it.
The girlfriend I had in California in the late seventies hated it so much she would drive way out of her way to go to the only gas station in town that had non-self serve. What an amazing treat that was to sit in your car on your ass while somebody else pumped your gas. You paid them and they gave you the change and you never got out of your car, they would even check your oil if you wanted. I can't imagine it now.
link to original post

I can imagine the full service experience, in fact it happens every time I fill up in New Jersey. Self-service gas is still forbidden there.
link to original post

That's not "full service." They used to call it "mini service." When I was a little kid they cleaned the windshield and backlite. Maybe checked the oil. THAT was "FULL" service.

As an older kid I learned to pump gas then my dad had "mini service" forever. Used to use a leaded fuel adapter because regular was a few cents cheaper. Given the penalties they said you could have gotten for that I should still be doing time in Allenwood.

I was running 103 octane in the mid 90's -early 2000s and most places didn't have 103, a few places that did have it usually had full service. I was doing Full-service in Vegas until about 2004 give or take a few years.

I don't think my mother has ever pumped her own gas. She would either find a full service or just make Dad do it.

Quote: AxelWolf

I was running 103 octane in the mid 90's -early 2000s and most places didn't have 103, a few places that did have it usually had full service. I was doing Full-service in Vegas until about 2004 give or take a few years.
link to original post

What needed that? 60s high compression V8?

Quote: AxelWolf

I was running 103 octane in the mid 90's -early 2000s and most places didn't have 103, a few places that did have it usually had full service. I was doing Full-service in Vegas until about 2004 give or take a few years.
link to original post

If I remember correctly the Rebel gas stations i Las Vegas had the 103 octane labeled as Racing Fuel.

Quote: DRich

Quote: AxelWolf

I was running 103 octane in the mid 90's -early 2000s and most places didn't have 103, a few places that did have it usually had full service. I was doing Full-service in Vegas until about 2004 give or take a few years.
link to original post

If I remember correctly the Rebel gas stations i Las Vegas had the 103 octane labeled as Racing Fuel.
link to original post

I think most cities had 1-2 places that had it. IIRC a place by me had 109 in the 80s. Thing is no road car needs that and it could harm some engines.

I get 85 octane in Utah and Colorado, Runs perfectly

I just got to watching a long video about the history of World's Fairs and it turned into Critical Fair Theory by the time Robert Moses got involved, so I'll leave it to Florida to figure out what to do with Disney. I'll include the video so you can see the real Walt Disney and not some terminator animitronic version of him.
Defunctland: The History of the 1964 New York World's Fair - YouTube

Quote: Ace2

I get 85 octane in Utah and Colorado, Runs perfectly
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Before she bet the company on EVs Mary Barra was suggesting the feds mandate the oil companies offer 100 or so octane fuel. Said they could get even more HP out of even smaller engines, supposedly there would be a cost benefit with the fuel savings.

100 octane gas won the air war in WWII. We had it, Germany did not.

Meanwhile I have always wondered why not fix it so engines can run on lower octane so we use less oil to make gasoline.

Quote: DRich

I don't think my mother has ever pumped her own gas. She would either find a full service or just make Dad do it.
link to original post

Pretty much I drive the truck, my wife the car. She will gas it up grudgingly, hoping hints will get me to do it. Unless Discover card is returning 5% that quarter, then she might gas up the truck!

Quote: Ace2

I get 85 octane in Utah and Colorado, Runs perfectly
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That will run fine at higher altitudes but can cause cars to sputter at lower altitudes.

I was using E85 for a while but it gave less mileage. If I'm paying ten percent less but getting ten percent less mileage, the only real effect is having to gas up more.

So if I fill up with Premium unethanol for $4/gallon instead of 87 octane 15% ethanol for $3.50/gallon, my city gas mileage will go up 15% from 13 mpg to 15 mpg? Seems like an even trade.

Quote: ChumpChange

So if I fill up with Premium unethanol for $4/gallon instead of 87 octane 15% ethanol for $3.50/gallon, my city gas mileage will go up 15% from 13 mpg to 15 mpg? Seems like an even trade.
link to original post

Usually the mild blends (E5, E10, E15) have a minor fuel economy impact, compared to E0 (nonethanol). (You are likely to notice a bigger improvement by reinflating your tires.)
It is very noticeable at E85.

Quote: AZDuffman

That's not "full service." They used to call it "mini service." When I was a little kid they cleaned the windshield and backlite. Maybe checked the oil. THAT was "FULL" service.

]

Competition was fierce and a good station had two attendants one pumped the gas and cleaned the windshields and the other one checked the air in all four tires and every pump Island had its own air hose. They almost always squeegeed the windshield no matter what you did. This was a godsend in the winter not having to get out of your car and having all this work done on it for just buying $4 worth of gas they always had a watering can full of antifreeze at the ready and a rack full of motor oil at 25 cents a quart.

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how about the Milkman
according to Wiki as late as 1963 29.7% of customers still got their milk delivered
by 1975 it had dropped to 6.9%


there was a story that went around - it wasn't true - but the story was that there was a Milkman from San Diego who fathered 800 children on his route________________(~:\

there have long been hundreds of made up stories about Milkmen fathering children on their route











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Quote: lilredrooster

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how about the Milkman
according to Wiki as late as 1963 29.7% of customers still got their milk delivered
by 1975 it had dropped to 6.9%


there was a story that went around - it wasn't true - but the story was that there was a Milkman from San Diego who fathered 800 children on his route________________(~:\











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link to original post

I have a vague memory of milk being delivered in the late 1960's.

Quote: lilredrooster

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how about the Milkman
according to Wiki as late as 1963 29.7% of customers still got their milk delivered
by 1975 it had dropped to 6.9%


there was a story that went around - it wasn't true - but the story was that there was a Milkman from San Diego who fathered 800 children on his route________________(~:\

there have long been hundreds of made up stories about Milkmen fathering children on their route











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link to original post

Married women screwed around a lot in the 40s and 50s because they could. There was no fear of pregnancy because they were already married and there was no DNA test. Some women got married just so they could screw around. And yes those delivery guys like the bread man and the milkman got laid a lot. Young housewives are notoriously horny and if you're halfway decent looking guy you can almost take your pick. Slam bam thank you ma'am and you're out of there in 10 minutes. Even STDs we're not a big deal, I didn't start hearing about those until the late seventies.

Quote: EvenBob

Even STDs we're not a big deal,

link to original post

in high school we worried about Gonorrhea - we called it "The Clap"

as in:

"you don't wanna mess around her - she's gonna give you The Clap"

and yeah, when you heard that - you definitely thought twice or more likely lost interest completely


many say the term "Clap" came from the French word "clapier" - a slang term for brothels - where this disease was contracted


.

STDs were a huge problem during WWII.

Quote: TigerWu

STDs were a huge problem during WWII.
link to original post

Same as most wars.