General Sports Talk
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64 members have voted
odds to win SB just now from vegasinsider .com
I'm going to spread $100 this way - dutching...............................................should change my handle to .................𝘤𝘩𝘢𝘭𝘬𝘦𝘢𝘵𝘦𝘳
$65 on Chiefs to win.....................................payout if wins.......................$195...............................net profit $95
$35 on Packers to win..................................payout if wins.......................$192.50...................................................................................net profit $92.50
Quote: gordonm888You are correct! Great catch! I never thought to look at Torii, So far he is the all-time leader -longest career without ever leading a league in an offensive stat.
Player* Yogi Berra Ron Fairly Frank White Scott Rolen Don Kessinger Dusty Baker Torii Hunter Jim Edmonds
* Players who have never led their league in any offensive category in any regular season
I found a number of others in the 5-7k PA range, but no one new to put on the list.
Todd Zeile comes real close.
https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/z/zeileto01.shtml
In 1996 he tied in G played @ 163 with Cal Ripken. How did they play in 163 games?
https://sabr.org/bioproj/person/todd-zeile/#:~:text=The%20trade%20allowed%20Zeile%20to,to%20one%2C%20in%20the%20Division
https://www.reddit.com/r/baseball/comments/ipmuap/how_did_cal_ripken_get_163_games_played_in_1996/
Quote: KeeneoneIn 1996 he tied in G played @ 163 with Cal Ripken. How did they play in 163 games?
End of season tie breaker games also count. Maury Wills played in 165 one year when they had a three-game playoff after the Dodgers and Giants tied.
Quote: TomG-Would be interesting to see a list using all of MLB leaders, instead of just AL or NL leaders. Seeing how good this group is, it might be a list of great players.
Just started looking at that players who have never led the ML in an offensive category..
Dave Concepcion (SS) with 9641 PA just beats out Alan Trammell. But Bill Dahlen (SS) has 10429 PA and also qualifies if we take someone whose MLB career began in 1891.
Lou Whitaker (2B) qualifies and has 9967 PA beating our Robinson Cano (9446 PA).
Looks like Scott Rolen (3B) and Yogi Berra are still the qualifiers with most PA at their positions.
Haven't looked at 1B or OF yet.
I also found that Barry Larkin (SS) never led his league in any category and beats out Don Kessinger with 9057 PA.
Quote: mcallister3200AARP convention matchup next week with Brady vs Brees.
if you could attend in person you could probably smell the Bengay or the Icy Hot or the Salonpas cream..................................((~:\
the Browns looked great in crushing the Steelers
was it real or was it an an outlier?
I dunno
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Quote: TomGEnd of season tie breaker games also count. Maury Wills played in 165 one year when they had a three-game playoff after the Dodgers and Giants tied.
Sometimes a player gets traded and ends up in more games than his team's did. No NBA team has ever played 84 games in a season but a player did.
factoid:
Frank Selvy of Furman U. scored 100 points in a college game
his coach and his teammates fed him the ball every time in a game late in the season because they wanted to help him get to the NBA
it worked and he was drafted no. 1 by the Baltimore Bullets in 1954
he is best known for playing on the great Laker teams in the shadow of Elgin Baylor and Jerry West - he did average double figures for the Lakers in 3 years
and for missing a buzzer beater in game 7 of the 1962 championship series that would have beat the Celtics if it had gone in - instead the Lakers lost in O.T.
Selvy goes up against Wilt:
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GO BILLS!
Quote: lilredroosterif you could attend in person you could probably smell the Bengay or the Icy Hot or the Salonpas cream..................................((~:\
the Browns looked great in crushing the Steelers
was it real or was it an an outlier?
I dunno
*
To me it was WAY MORE about how inept the Steelers were. Stats can mislead, but Steelers during comeback attempt amassed over 500 yards passing. I don’t see Browns challenging the Chiefs.
Bills 3 point faves over Ravens. I was surprised I figured it would be a pickem game. Both teams are hot. I think each are on 6 game win streaks.
I am firmly AGAINST the 7th playoff team. In the NFC, I can accept a bad division winner (WFT) but see NO NEED for a VERY BAD 8-8 wildcard team (Bears). In AFC at least team 7 was 11-5.
Quote: DRichAs one who grew up in Cleveland .......
Now it starts to make sense.
Quote: SOOPOOTo me it was WAY MORE about how inept the Steelers were. Stats can mislead, but Steelers during comeback attempt amassed over 500 yards passing. I don’t see Browns challenging the Chiefs.
Bills 3 point faves over Ravens. I was surprised I figured it would be a pickem game. Both teams are hot. I think each are on 6 game win streaks.
I am firmly AGAINST the 7th playoff team. In the NFC, I can accept a bad division winner (WFT) but see NO NEED for a VERY BAD 8-8 wildcard team (Bears). In AFC at least team 7 was 11-5.
If you see Ravens +3, jump on it. I can only find 2.5.
Quote: SOOPOOTo me it was WAY MORE about how inept the Steelers were. Stats can mislead, but Steelers during comeback attempt amassed over 500 yards.
.
I guess. Tough to know what to make of a game with an outlier first quarter like 28-0.
I know the players like him but I don’t understand how Tomlin is allowed to make important decisions.....they took an intentional penalty and then punted when they had 4th and 1 down from their own 46 in the beginning of the 4th quarter down 35-23....they had scored on their previous 4 possessions. Win probability model from oddsmaker betprism sports had that decision lowering their win probability from 30.5% to 23.5%, almost 25% of their remaining win chance given away, it wasn’t even close where you can justify it.
4th down decision rant continued....the ineptitude some coaches display on 4th down should be a fireable offense....you don’t have to go “by the book” every time but, as a Vikings fan I’ve seen Zimmer waste a timeout in order to take a delay of game and then punt. Inexcusable under any circumstance other than possibly 4th quarter. A competent coach should know when every drive starts what combinations of field position and yardage to go they will go for it/punt/kick, and again that doesn’t have to be by the book every time but it shouldn’t be way off and shouldn’t have to think hard about it at the moment.
Quote: mcallister3200I guess. Tough to know what to make of a game with an outlier first quarter like 28-0.
I know the players like him but I don’t understand how Tomlin is allowed to make important decisions.....they took an intentional penalty and then punted when they had 4th and 1 down from their own 46 in the beginning of the 4th quarter down 35-23....they had scored on their previous 4 possessions. Win probability model from oddsmaker betprism sports had that decision lowering their win probability from 30.5% to 23.5%, almost 25% of their remaining win chance given away, it wasn’t even close where you can justify it.
4th down decision rant continued....the ineptitude some coaches display on 4th down should be a fireable offense....you don’t have to go “by the book” every time but, as a Vikings fan I’ve seen Zimmer waste a timeout in order to take a delay of game and then punt. Inexcusable under any circumstance other than possibly 4th quarter. A competent coach should know when every drive starts what combinations of field position and yardage to go they will go for it/punt/kick, and again that doesn’t have to be by the book every time but it shouldn’t be way off and shouldn’t have to think hard about it at the moment.
The elephant in the room is that football people are just NOT SMART! They may be good MOTIVATORS, good talent evaluators, but they tend to be JUST NOT SMART ENOUGH to make decisions on clock management, 2 point conversions, fourth down decisions, and challenges. There is NO DOUBT that I, and probably 80+% of the posters here could do a better job. The joke is that when they praise someone's wunderlich test results, they are probably lauding someone who is just barely average in the general population. Football players are just not that smart. And coaches generally come from that pool. Just watching the number of players casually run out of bounds yesterday when the clear and obvious strategy would be to fall down in bounds solidifies this point.
It didn't change the result, but the Cleveland Browns not going for it on 4th down on the Steelers 38 was not the decision I would make. But ok, I guess. What was JUST PLAIN STUPID, was once you decided to punt, WASTING a timeout so as not to get a TOTALLY MEANINGLESS 5 yard penalty WHEN YOU ARE STILL GOING TO PUNT! Rant over.....
Quote: SOOPOOThe elephant in the room is that football people are just NOT SMART! They may be good MOTIVATORS, good talent evaluators, but they tend to be JUST NOT SMART ENOUGH to make decisions on clock management, 2 point conversions, fourth down decisions, and challenges.
Probably one of the smartest players in the NFL is the recently-named #2 QB on the Steelers: Joshua Dobbs. Dobbs majored (and graduated) in Aerospace Engineering at Tennessee. His mother is a scientist. And Rothleisberger is starting to throw erratically - his career could be close to over. So, we may see more of Dobbs.
Quote: gordonm888Probably one of the smartest players in the NFL is the recently-named #2 QB on the Steelers: Joshua Dobbs. Dobbs majored (and graduated) in Aerospace Engineering at Tennessee. His mother is a scientist. And Rothleisberger is starting to throw erratically - his career could be close to over. So, we may see more of Dobbs.
I don't think he has much of a future in the NFL. I believe he is third string on the steelers and they have already released him once and he went to Jacksonville. Even Jacksonville released him and the Steelers picked him back up to replace Duck.
Roethlisberger probably has one more year and by 2022 I wouldn't expect Dobbs to still be in the league.
Quote: DRichI don't think he has much of a future in the NFL. I believe he is third string on the Steelers and they have already released him once and he went to Jacksonville. Even Jacksonville released him and the Steelers picked him back up to replace Duck.
Roethlisberger probably has one more year and by 2022 I wouldn't expect Dobbs to still be in the league.
On Jan 5, 2021 the Steelers announced that Dobbs was named #2 QB, beating out Landry Jones. In his couple of appearances in prior years he has played reasonably well.
I don't expect him to ever be the #1 quarterback -especially with the recent and continuing influx of high quality QBs coming into the league from colleges. But, I am guessing that in the long-term he will be a coach, and eventually a head coach.
Quote: DRichI don't think he has much of a future in the NFL. I believe he is third string on the steelers and they have already released him once and he went to Jacksonville. Even Jacksonville released him and the Steelers picked him back up to replace Duck.
Roethlisberger probably has one more year and by 2022 I wouldn't expect Dobbs to still be in the league.
He got traded to Jacksonville originally rather than released. But agree unlikely he’s a long term starter, not many are.
Its not even close
Taylor Heinicke
Quote: terapinedMost impressive QB in the playoffs
Its not even close
Taylor Heinicke
How so? Perhaps impressive but how not close when Lamar and Baker player well?
He threw a few “could have been intercepted passes,” and I think largely Tampa defenders just underestimated and didn’t respect his mobility, took some bad angles. He ran a 4.6 40 but they didn’t respect his mobility the angles taken on his touchdown run were pretty bad, likely because he’s an untouted white dude.
John Loefler was the least impressive QB in the playoffs. He had never started an NFL game and on his second play from scrimmage he was injured so badly he was sent to the hospital. Welcome to the NFL.
James Harden to the Nets....................hunh?............................................there's only one ball..................................................{(~:\
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/13/sports/basketball/james-harden-trade-nets-rockets.html
Quote: lilredrooster..........................
James Harden to the Nets....................hunh?............................................there's only one ball..................................................{(~:\
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/13/sports/basketball/james-harden-trade-nets-rockets.html
I can't possibly see how he and Irving can coexist. Maybe they are assuming Irving won't be back or that they will trade him.
Quote: billryanI've been a Nets fan since the Rick Barry days, but simply can't watch the NBA anymore. It's a shame because today's players are far more athletic than a generation ago but the game has changed too much for me.
Rick Barry played for the Nets?
I remember him beating my Bullets 4 straight in the Championship playing for Golden State
I did not really like him, thought he whined too much about being fouled
but
I loved the underhand freethrows
Quote: billryanI've been a Nets fan since the Rick Barry days, but simply can't watch the NBA anymore. It's a shame because today's players are far more athletic than a generation ago but the game has changed too much for me.
I having feelings similar to that
it's a little bit embarrassing to me to see how much better these players are than the players of my generation
i.e. - Bill Russell - considered by many to be the most impactful NBA player of all time - I'm not sure he would even have been first string if he was out there today - he was weak offensively and was not anywhere near as quick or as high jumping as today's big men - and at 6'9" or 6'10" he would be smallish compared to today's centers
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Quote: terapinedRick Barry played for the Nets?
he played for the New York Nets in the ABA who then became the New Jersey nets of the NBA
I'm sure you remember Gus Johnson of the Baltimore Bullets
I saw him wear Rick Barry down in person - he was so much stronger than Barry - Barry couldn't move and got real frustrated
it was real fun to watch
𝘛𝘩𝘦 𝘏𝘰𝘯𝘦𝘺𝘤𝘰𝘮𝘣 - I'll never forget him - saw him break a backboard on a dunk on TV - it was insane
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Quote: terapinedRick Barry played for the Nets?
I remember him beating my Bullets 4 straight in the Championship playing for Golden State
I did not really like him, thought he whined too much about being fouled
but
I loved the underhand freethrows
Rick played parts of two seasons for The Nets if I remember correctly.
To illustrate how the game has changed. The Nets were playing in an old quonset hut while the Nassau Colisieum was being built, and it had seating on only one side of the court. Barry had injured his knee and was out for the year, but when my schoolbus full of Cub Scouts showed up, he met us on the bus and was hawking programs for us to buy. No program, no signature. The Nets were paying him and just because he was injured, it didn't mean they could get some use from him. At the e nd of the year, the ABA changed the rules and named him the scoring champion, which pissed off Nets ownership because now they owed him a bonus for it.
He ended up leaving and the Nets traded for Dr. J.
Bill in AFC Championship game
𝙨𝙤𝙢𝙚 𝙝𝙚𝙧𝙚 𝙖𝙧𝙚 𝙪𝙣𝙙𝙤𝙪𝙗𝙩𝙚𝙙𝙡𝙮 𝙝𝙖𝙥𝙥𝙮 𝙖𝙗𝙤𝙪𝙩 𝙩𝙝𝙖𝙩
Quote: lilredrooster....................
Bill in AFC Championship game
𝙨𝙤𝙢𝙚 𝙝𝙚𝙧𝙚 𝙖𝙧𝙚 𝙪𝙣𝙙𝙤𝙪𝙗𝙩𝙚𝙙𝙡𝙮 𝙝𝙖𝙥𝙥𝙮 𝙖𝙗𝙤𝙪𝙩 𝙩𝙝𝙖𝙩
I’m ‘some’! 14 points.... but a single play.... change the INT in the end zone from a pick 6 for the Bills into a TD for the Ravens and its 10-10. Both teams missed 2 FGs. Both QBs were lucky their fumbles were recovered by teammates.
Overall, Bills were slightly better. I am making my preliminary line.... Chiefs 6.5 over Bills. My son has friends in KC. If this was non COVID year we’d be going to the game.
If Cleveland beats KC ignore previous paragraph.
Quote: SOOPOOI’m ‘some’! 14 points.... but a single play.... change the INT in the end zone from a pick 6 for the Bills into a TD for the Ravens and its 10-10. Both teams missed 2 FGs. Both QBs were lucky their fumbles were recovered by teammates.
Overall, Bills were slightly better. I am making my preliminary line.... Chiefs 6.5 over Bills. My son has friends in KC. If this was non COVID year we’d be going to the game.
If Cleveland beats KC ignore previous paragraph.
But the teams could not make the over and killed one of my parlay boosts!
Still I have about +2300 on the Bills to win next week! GO BROWNS! Even though I think the Bills would surprise the Chiefs I'd rather the I-90 Bowl.
change the word ‘would’ to could and I’ll agree with you. Bill beat Chiefs in KC maybe 1 in 4 times? Chiefs -330. bills + 260 or so?Quote: AZDuffmanBut the teams could not make the over and killed one of my parlay boosts!
Still I have about +2300 on the Bills to win next week! GO BROWNS! Even though I think the Bills would surprise the Chiefs I'd rather the I-90 Bowl.
Hopefully Saints-Bucs makes up for it.
I've no sentimental attachment to any of the remaining teams. Just looking for exciting football and thus far am pretty disappointed.
The Bills- Chiefs should be a real slobberknocker.
No TV service in Quartzite
I was walking around the campground to see if maybe somebody had a TV outside watching the game via satellite.
Pretty common
Except in this campground
Surrounded by 6 figure rigs and mostly Trumpers.
The Blue lives flag has replaced the Trump flags
I think most just cant get over a simple knee. snowflakes
Went online and Yahoo has a great deal
Sign up for their sports app and let them track you and you can watch the games
I signed up
It was great
Not missing anything being out in the middle of nowhere
Quote: terapinedI'm out in the middle of nowhere
No TV service in Quartzite
I was walking around the campground to see if maybe somebody had a TV outside watching the game via satellite.
Pretty common
Except in this campground
Surrounded by 6 figure rigs and mostly Trumpers.
The Blue lives flag has replaced the Trump flags
I think most just cant get over a simple knee. snowflakes
Went online and Yahoo has a great deal
Sign up for their sports app and let them track you and you can watch the games
I signed up
It was great
Not missing anything being out in the middle of nowhere
Please keep the non gambling related politics on the other forum particularly not in the sports thread. Thanks.
Quote: mcallister3200Please keep the non gambling related politics on the other forum particularly not in the sports thread. Thanks.
Lol
I go between DT and WOV and post in both
I thought I was posting in politics allowed DT
Oh well. I would delete but it's already copied
I'll take a suspension :-)
Quote: terapinedLol
I go between DT and WOV and post in both
I thought I was posting in politics allowed DT
Oh well. I would delete but it's already copied
I'll take a suspension :-)
I don’t really want that. Doubt it will happen unless requested and I don’t do that.
4th & inches from about the 40 with less than 2 minutes to go Andy Reid decides to go for it
even though with a good punt he could have backed the Browns up to about the 10 yard line
even though the Browns needed a TD to win, otherwise a loss
even though the Browns had no timeouts left
as if that wasn't enough, on the play he has his backup QB throw a pass even though the guy had already thrown a really ugly pick
and except for his excellent run creating the 4th and inches situation Henne looked lost out there
here's the stats on Henne - the QB Andy Reid had so much faith in
he played one and one half quarters - he threw for 66 yards - no TDs and one ugly pick
he put 3 points on the board - which averages out to be about 8 for an entire game
now, it's guaranteed the commentators will be calling Andy Reid a genius
if it had backfired they would be calling him an idiot
the real geniuses are the sports talking heads wearing $3,000 suits
*
Quote: lilredrooster....................
4th & inches from about the 40 with less than 2 minutes to go Andy Reid decides to go for it
even though with a good punt he could have backed the Browns up to about the 10 yard line
even though the Browns needed a TD to win, otherwise a loss
even though the Browns had no timeouts left
as if that wasn't enough, on the play he has his backup QB throw a pass even though the guy had already thrown a really ugly pick
and except for his excellent run creating the 4th and inches situation Henne looked lost out there
here's the stats on Henne - the QB Andy Reid had so much faith in
he played one and one half quarters - he threw for 66 yards - no TDs and one ugly pick
he put 3 points on the board - which averages out to be about 8 for an entire game
now, it's guaranteed the commentators will be calling Andy Reid a genius
if it had backfired they would be calling him an idiot
the real geniuses are the sports talking heads wearing $3,000 suits
*
Henne looked ok. He did not look 'lost' out there. Andy Reid has built up 'capital' to not be afraid of what you or I would say. I would have ran the ball. But I loved the call. I called it 'gutsy'. The two QBs who looked lost over the weekend were Jackson and Brees. Really surprising that Brees/NO looked as bad as they did....
Quote: JohnzimboAFC has to take down the Super Bowl this year right? Anyone know current odds AFC vs NFC? I would assume AFC favored by 3 or 3.5
Packers +3 or 3.5 is tasty. If it's Packers Chiefs, 3 seems right. If it's Packers Bills, Packers are small faves.
I can't figure out what Brady/Bucs would be....
Quote: SOOPOO
I can't figure out what Brady/Bucs would be....
Here is hoping week 6 repeats!
Zion is a terror on inside power moves to the basket and his 2pt. FG% is a tremendous .581
but his game is not a total crush
he doesn't shoot 3s and doesn't have an outside game
his free throw shooting is very weak at .636
his rebounding is good at 8.3 per game but it's only a little more than half of the best guy in the league
his Pelicans are 5-7
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/willizi01.html
Quote: lilredrooster..................
Zion is a terror on inside power moves to the basket and his 2pt. FG% is a tremendous .581
but his game is not a total crush
he doesn't shoot 3s and doesn't have an outside game
his free throw shooting is very weak at .636
his rebounding is good at 8.3 per game but it's only a little more than half of the best guy in the league
his Pelicans are 5-7
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/willizi01.html
My ‘eye test’ on him has him better than his numbers. His team is lacking overall talent. He’s a top 30 player in the league. And likely to get better.
James Harden and Kevin Durant together are meshing well. We will see how Kyrie fits in when his vacation is over.
The thing I’ve noticed is Zions own lack of shooting doesn’t really hurt him like it would most players, teams can’t sag off him in the corner without paying for it. When they do he gets a running start at the basket when he receives the ball and he’s simply unstoppable with a running start to the basket with his combo of strength and explosiveness.
Quote: lilredrooster....................
4th & inches from about the 40 with less than 2 minutes to go Andy Reid decides to go for it
even though with a good punt he could have backed the Browns up to about the 10 yard line
even though the Browns needed a TD to win, otherwise a loss
even though the Browns had no timeouts left
as if that wasn't enough, on the play he has his backup QB throw a pass even though the guy had already thrown a really ugly pick
and except for his excellent run creating the 4th and inches situation Henne looked lost out there
here's the stats on Henne - the QB Andy Reid had so much faith in
he played one and one half quarters - he threw for 66 yards - no TDs and one ugly pick
he put 3 points on the board - which averages out to be about 8 for an entire game
now, it's guaranteed the commentators will be calling Andy Reid a genius
if it had backfired they would be calling him an idiot
the real geniuses are the sports talking heads wearing $3,000 suits
*
Any opinion of something like this should really just be straightforward algebra.
Go for it on fourth down, what is the probability of making it?
Punt and what is the probability of pinning the Browns compared to probability of a touchback?
What is the probability the Browns can go 50 yards for a TD in a 1:50? 75 yards? 90 yards?
The answers to those questions will tell us what the right call is. And if someone cannot speculate about the answers to those questions, their opinion about the right call has no value.
Quote: TomGAny opinion of something like this should really just be straightforward algebra.
What is the probability
. And if someone cannot speculate about the answers to those questions, their opinion about the right call has no value.
I can't give exactly probabilities
but even with a touchback I can speculate the with any QB other than Rodgers, Brady or Mahomes that it is an extreme longshot that the team will go 75 yards and score a TD with 1:52 left and no timeouts
the throwing of a pass with a weak QB in that situation increased the risk greatly for the Chiefs
I can accept your estimation that my opinion has no value - but it has value to me - that's why I posted
that's what people do on a forum - they post - there is no requirement that they provide exact calculations before expressing an opinion
if nobody else values it - that's okay - I'll survive
and also, if you tried to compute the probabilities -
you could likely not find a great many exact replicas or close to exact replicas of that situation
so, because of variance - a calculation based on that would likely not be worth much
I seriously doubt you could data mine many situations where a weak backup QB threw a pass on 4th and inches at a critical point in the game with less than 2 minutes left
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Quote: lilredroosterand also, if you tried to compute the probabilities -
you could likely not find a great many exact replicas or close to exact replicas of that situation
so, because of variance - a calculation based on that would likely not be worth much
There is quite a lot of data about teams going for it on 4th and 1. The run v pass isn't necessary to analyze, because that is game-theory that is already built into that data. On all the previous 4th and 1 attempts teams had the option to either run or pass, and used whatever they believed maximized their chance of getting it. I would give the Chiefs a 66% chance of making it.
If there is an extreme longshot to go 75 yards in 1:50, then that should also mean going 50 yards is also a pretty big long shot. So long as it is no more than three time greater, then going for it on fourth down was correct. If we say Browns had a 10% chance of going 75-yards, punting would be correct only if the Browns had a greater than 30% chance of going 50 yards for a TD? I cannot see both the 10% and >30% as being true based on those 25-yards of field position.
Quote: TomGThe run v pass isn't necessary to analyze, because that is game-theory that is already built into that data.
there probably is some data on a QB throwing a pass on 4th and inches
but I doubt it includes a power ranking of the particular QB
and again, this was a weak backup QB - so, without that power ranking I doubt the data would be meaningful
and it wasn't just that the Browns would have had to go 75 yards or more in 1:50
they would have had to do it with no timeouts
that makes it a lot harder to do
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