General Sports Talk
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69 members have voted
Quote: lilredroosterthe Brooklyn Nets should be a whole different ball of wax this year with both Kyrie Irving and Kevin Durant
will be interesting to see if they can contest for Conference championship or crown - will loyal Knicks fans migrate to them?....... I would guess so
they're favored today by 3 over the Celts
if Wash wins both of their remaining games - they top the NFC east no matter what else happens
if Wash loses to Carolina Sunday and the Eagles beat the Boys - Wash/Eagles - last game of season - will determine the NFC east winner - unless the Giants win their last 2
if the Boys beat the Eagles and Giants in their next 2 and Wash loses to Carolina and the Eagles the Boys are #1 NFC east
but if Wash wins one of the two and the Cowboys win 2 Wash will win the NFC east because they beat the Boys twice
if the Giants beat the Ravens and Cowboys and Wash loses either to Carolina or the Eagles the Giants are #1 NFC east because they beat Wash twice
if Wash loses 2 and the Giants and Eagles win 2 the Giants top the NFC east
if Wash doesn't win the next 2 whoever wins the NFC east will host a playoff game with a losing record...................................(-:\
did I miss something?.............................not sure...................but I don't think so
For me that is the only thing interesting in Pro Football this year. The NFL game is really going down hill in my opinion. I probably only watch two games a week now. I used to try and record and watch them all. College football is so much more interesting because of all of the different styles of offenses.
if the Giants beat the Boys next week and Wash loses to the Eagles
then one of the three of them will host a playoff game with a 6-10 record..................(-:\
I'm not sure who will top the NFC East if that happens because Wash beat the Boys twice
the Giants beat Wash twice
and if that happens the Boys and the Giants split 2 games
so who will be tops if that happens?
I dunno how they decide it
anybody know how?
edit: I thought about it some more
I'm pretty sure if that happens the Giants will be tops - because they're the only team that didn't lose twice to one of the other 2 contenders
So I bet on Bucks +18 laying 500-1.
Luckily I had Nets money line.....
On a serious note.... I did text my son saying Jets good money line bet over Browns. They had none of their wide receivers!
R.I.P. Phil Niekro, nicknamed "Knucksie", probably the greatest knuckleball pitcher of all time
it's fun to look back at his mastery of that crazy pitch
at 0:43 in the vid a bamboozled batter falls to the ground trying to hit it......................................................................................(-:\
I saw Mr. Neikro pitch a few times when he and his brother, Joe, played for the Yankees. He was well past his prime by then, but he knew how to win.
He is facing Seaver in his first start ‘up north’.
the Browns are currently favored by 7 over the Steelers Sunday
I get it that the Steelers have clinched and the Browns need the win to get the Wild Card but it still doesn't make sense to me
are the Steelers going to rest all of their key players?
I would think not because that division rivalry is pretty hot and I would think the Steelers would love to knock the Browns out of there
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Quote: lilredrooster.......................
the Browns are currently favored by 7 over the Steelers Sunday
I get it that the Steelers have clinched and the Browns need the win to get the Wild Card but it still doesn't make sense to me
are the Steelers going to rest all of their key players?
I would think not because that division rivalry is pretty hot and I would think the Steelers would love to knock the Browns out of there
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If Steelers win and Bills lose Steelers get #2 seed. BIG PRIZE! Get second home game AND don’t face Chiefs until 3rd game. Bills playing Miami and probably 2-1 favorite.... no sure thing. Steelers are big underdog because they are not that good....
Quote: SOOPOOSteelers are big underdog because they are not that good....
right, I get that the Steelers are not that good
but neither are the Browns
they just got beat by the Jets and they also got beat by the Bengals and barely squeaked past the Jaguars
Quote: lilredroosterright, I get that the Steelers are not that good
but neither are the Browns
they just got beat by the Jets and they also got beat by the Bengals and barely squeaked past the Jaguars
Browns had NO NFL caliber wide receivers. That wasn’t the Browns. But I agree that they are not good enough to be a 7 point fave over ANY team that is still trying to win.
Quote: lilredroosterright, I get that the Steelers are not that good
but neither are the Browns
they just got beat by the Jets and they also got beat by the Bengals and barely squeaked past the Jaguars
Ben isn’t playing.
Miss St Number 3 at 1:30 throws the 1st punch that really ignites this
This shows the pre game flexing, a play at the end that may have started the brawl and brawl analysis
I was pretty shocked to see that Wash signed center Chase Roullier to a 4 year $40 million dollar contract with $19 million guaranteed
he is only the 10th highest paid center in the NFL
I had no idea that salaries had ballooned to this extent
https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2021/01/02/chase-roullier-contract-extension-washington/
Total dollar value of a contract over three years is more or less meaningless in NFL contracts unlike MLB or most NBA deals, the numbers that matter are the guaranteed money and salary in first 2-3 years. Almost all nfl contracts have close to no money guaranteed after the third season of the contract. Article says 19 million guaranteed so probably roughly two years guaranteed and if he’s not living up to it at that point or struggling with injuries they can restructure the deal or cut him loose cheap.
𝐬𝐭𝐫𝐞𝐚𝐤 𝐩𝐫𝐨𝐛𝐚𝐛𝐢𝐥𝐢𝐭𝐲 𝐜𝐚𝐥𝐜𝐮𝐥𝐚𝐭𝐨𝐫
kind of fun to play around with
it figures loss probability - you just reverse it to get win probability
I can't link it because of the rules here - but if you put it into google you will find it
for example:
if you bet some kind of parlay and your records indicate you win this bet 33% of the time -
then in a 200 bet series you will lose 12 in a row 41.266% of the time
if you are able to win an ATS bet 55% of the time -
then in a 150 bet series you will win 8 in a row 42.826% of the time
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Quote: lilredrooster.......................
I was pretty shocked to see that Wash signed center Chase Roullier to a 4 year $40 million dollar contract with $19 million guaranteed
he is only the 10th highest paid center in the NFL
I had no idea that salaries had ballooned to this extent
Sign of getting old. When the salary cap started the whole team got like $34 million or so. Still waiting for law of large numbers to kick in, though I do think it is starting. Cost of going to a game is so insane.
Quote: AZDuffmanSign of getting old
yep. I'm getting old for sure
when somebody points that out I always have same response:
𝐈 𝐝𝐢𝐝𝐧'𝐭 𝐥𝐢𝐤𝐞 𝐭𝐡𝐞 𝐨𝐧𝐥𝐲 𝐨𝐭𝐡𝐞𝐫 𝐨𝐩𝐭𝐢𝐨𝐧...............................................................................................................(~:\................................√.........√.........√..........√
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Quote: lilredroosteryep. I'm getting old for sure
when somebody points that out I always have same response:
𝐈 𝐝𝐢𝐝𝐧'𝐭 𝐥𝐢𝐤𝐞 𝐭𝐡𝐞 𝐨𝐧𝐥𝐲 𝐨𝐭𝐡𝐞𝐫 𝐨𝐩𝐭𝐢𝐨𝐧...............................................................................................................(~:\................................√.........√.........√..........√
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This could be a thread.
Getting old is seeing the rebate on a car commercial and remembering when the whole car cost less than the rebate.
has to be the dumbest QB move in the history of the NFL
1997 against the Giants - Wash QB Gus Frerotte carries the ball a few yards for a TD
then, celebrating his score, he headbutts the wall, sprains his neck and has to be taken to the hospital at halftime
he didn't play the rest of the year
You can go back to hating the Eagles now!
Should Ron Rivera win coach of the year for leading The Football Team to a division title after undergoing cancer treatments for the first half of the season?
Read someone say he should and there’s no discussion, my first thought was it’s a joke to give coach of the year for coaching a team to a 7-9 record but not sure who I’d have in mind that should get it.
Carson Wentz wants to be traded
he feels he's been treated unfairly
oh, boo hoo hoo for you Carson....................boo hoo hoo
yes, everybody is wrong......................................................................................................you truly ARE great
......................................((~:\..................................................√..................√..................√....................√
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/30642949/sources-carson-wentz-doug-pederson-relationship-fractured-repair-philadelphia-eagles-qb-plans-ask-trade
Quote: billryanI can't believe I'm rooting for the Eagles.
The NFL has hit a new low. Eagle coach CLEARLY tanked game in 4th quarter of 3 point game. He already HAD a backup QB that presumably they were evaluating, Hurts, and what a better way to see him than in a must win game for the opponent. But he puts in the 3rd stringer, who was a total joke. And kept him in.
It’s why week 17 sucks. Some teams try. Others don’t. It’s hard for people to feel bad for the Giants and their 6-10 record, but if Pederson had wanted to win, it looks like they had a 50/50 chance.
Pederson I think got his team 6th pick instead of 9th pick, so he did what was best for HIS team going forward. But it smells rotten.
Quote: SOOPOOThe NFL has hit a new low. Eagle coach CLEARLY tanked game in 4th quarter of 3 point game. He already HAD a backup QB that presumably they were evaluating, Hurts, and what a better way to see him than in a must win game for the opponent. But he puts in the 3rd stringer, who was a total joke. And kept him in.
It’s why week 17 sucks. Some teams try. Others don’t. It’s hard for people to feel bad for the Giants and their 6-10 record, but if Pederson had wanted to win, it looks like they had a 50/50 chance.
Pederson I think got his team 6th pick instead of 9th pick, so he did what was best for HIS team going forward. But it smells rotten.
If Hurt's had played well I might agree with you. He was terrible. He had 72 yards passing and his average per attempt was only 3.8 yards. I think they made the correct move to try someone else.
Quote: SOOPOOThe NFL has hit a new low. Eagle coach CLEARLY tanked game in 4th quarter of 3 point game. He already HAD a backup QB that presumably they were evaluating, Hurts, and what a better way to see him than in a must win game for the opponent. But he puts in the 3rd stringer, who was a total joke. And kept him in.
It’s why week 17 sucks. Some teams try. Others don’t. It’s hard for people to feel bad for the Giants and their 6-10 record, but if Pederson had wanted to win, it looks like they had a 50/50 chance.
Pederson I think got his team 6th pick instead of 9th pick, so he did what was best for HIS team going forward. But it smells rotten.
Disagree with new low. Week 17 sucks but pulling Hurts in a game that did not matter to them is no worse than Chiefs sitting a healthy Mahomes or Steelers sitting a healthy Roethlisberger in games that did not matter or mattered little to them.
As far as tanking for picks goes, they could always do a weighted lottery system like the nba to discourage it, but it’s not a big problem since nfl players are playing for a job next year more than any other sport.
NBA is a complete joke how the buyout market works, decent vets often sign short term deals with bad teams with more cap space and then get bought out post trade deadline and contenders get them for a prorated minimum. You don’t see anything like that in any other major sport. Basketball is my favorite sport but it’s brutal how after the trade deadline 1/3 of the teams are soft tanking, that’s a lot of season.
Quote: DRichIf Hurt's had played well I might agree with you. He was terrible. He had 72 yards passing and his average per attempt was only 3.8 yards. I think they made the correct move to try someone else.
You have to be kidding! Hurts was below average, but his running plays at least made him ok. A lot of ‘attempts’ became runs. And you KNOW Pederson put Sudfeld in just because he felt like it, and NOT as a ‘you suck, I’m going with a total loser in your stead’ to Hurts.
. I guess the timing in the Eagles/WFT game made it a new low for me. Had they started a Sudfeld, or sat lots of other players from the beginning.... but they played to win for 3/4 and played to lose for 1/4. I’d be pissed if I was a defensive player on that team.Quote: mcallister3200Disagree with new low. Week 17 sucks but pulling Hurts in a game that did not matter to them is no worse than Chiefs sitting a healthy Mahomes or Steelers sitting a healthy Roethlisberger in games that did not matter or mattered little to them.
As far as tanking for picks goes, they could always do a weighted lottery system like the nba to discourage it, but it’s not a big problem since nfl players are playing for a job next year more than any other sport.
NBA is a complete joke how the buyout market works, decent vets often sign short term deals with bad teams with more cap space and then get bought out post trade deadline and contenders get them for a prorated minimum. You don’t see anything like that in any other major sport. Basketball is my favorite sport but it’s brutal how after the trade deadline 1/3 of the teams are soft tanking, that’s a lot of season.
Quote: AZDuffmanQuestion for all. Can Bills take the AFC? KC has not exactly blown away teams this year. Leaves an opening.
Of course they can. I would give them about a 35% chance.
They’re +350 to make the Super Bowl. Sounds like you think that’s a good bet.Quote: DRichOf course they can. I would give them about a 35% chance.
Quote: unJonThey’re +350 to make the Super Bowl. Sounds like you think that’s a good bet.
It seems like a fair bet. I was debating what odds I should assign to Baltimore and every time I think about it I keep raising their odds.
. Quite generous of you! I will bet you ANY amount of money giving you 65-35 they do not make it to the Super Bowl. I’d guess IF they JUST had to play the chiefs they’d have around a 35% chance to win that game. They have to win two games to get to play the Chiefs. But..... If we make that bet I will be rooting for you!Quote: DRichOf course they can. I would give them about a 35% chance.
please take a look at my new "blog" if you get a chance...............................................thanks
Quote: SOOPOO. Quite generous of you! I will bet you ANY amount of money giving you 65-35 they do not make it to the Super Bowl. I’d guess IF they JUST had to play the chiefs they’d have around a 35% chance to win that game. They have to win two games to get to play the Chiefs. But..... If we make that bet I will be rooting for you!
Obviously I won't bet this as I can get a better number at the sportsbooks.
Quote: DRichObviously I won't bet this as I can get a better number at the sportsbooks.
I never expected you to! But let's figure out what the 'real' odds should be.
Bills at home probably beat Indy 2 out of 3. They would likely win 3 out of 5 at home against next opponent (likely Steelers). Then win 1 out of 3 against Chiefs (likely) on road. so 6/45 chance. Around 13%. Does that sound right to you?
Quote: SOOPOOI never expected you to! But let's figure out what the 'real' odds should be.
Bills at home probably beat Indy 2 out of 3. They would likely win 3 out of 5 at home against next opponent (likely Steelers). Then win 1 out of 3 against Chiefs (likely) on road. so 6/45 chance. Around 13%. Does that sound right to you?
I think Baltimore is more likely to beat the Bills than the Steelers or Colts. I hope the Bills can get through round 1. and then we will worry about the next game.
| Player* | Position | Plate Appearances |
|---|---|---|
| Yogi Berra | C | 8364 |
| Ron Fairly | 1B | 8437 |
| Frank White | 2B | 8468 |
| Scott Rolen | 3B | 8518 |
| Don Kessinger | SS | 8530 |
| Rick Monday | OF | 7162 |
| Claudell Washington | OF | 7367 |
| Jim Edmonds | OF | 7980 |
* Players who have never led their league in any offensive category in any regular season
Offensive categories are defined as the columns in the Baseball-Reference site Batting Tables and include: PA, AB, G, R, H, 2B, 3B, HR, RBI, S, CS, BB, SO, BA, OBP, OPS, OPS+, TB, GDP, HBP, SH, SF, and IBB. So there are some negative categories in here such as Strikeouts, Caught Stealing and Grounded into Double Plays.
Ivan Rodriguez would have replaced Yogi Berra on this list with over 10,000 plate appearances except for the fact that Ivan led the league in GDP in one solitary season.
I am not sure that I got all the players with the most plate appearances on the list -specifically I suspect there were some outfielders I didn't find who never led the league in a seasonal offensive category and had more PA than Rick Monday's 7162. I would welcome anyone's improvements to this list. I confined my search to players whose first year in the Major Leagues was 1890 or later -but I don't think it matters. All the players that made my list, except Yogi Berra, are from the Expansion era when leagues have more than 8 teams and thus leading the league in any category is, presumably, more difficult. (Edit: Also careers are longer in the modern era for various reasons.)
I guess, based on your chart, he was solid enough a player over his career.
And the NFC East this season is an anomaly. I think it's good for the league to have goofiness like that once in a while!
Quote: gordonm888Here's a table that I've originated- the MLB players at each defensive position with the most career plate appearances who never led their league in any offensive category during any regular season.
Player* Yogi Berra Ron Fairly Frank White Scott Rolen Don Kessinger Rick Monday Claudell Washington Jim Edmonds
* Players who have never led their league in any offensive category in any regular season
Offensive categories are defined as the columns in the Baseball-Reference site Batting Tables and include: PA, AB, G, R, H, 2B, 3B, HR, RBI, S, CS, BB, SO, BA, OBP, OPS, OPS+, TB, GDP, HBP, SH, SF, and IBB. So there are some negative categories in here such as Strikeouts, Caught Stealing and Grounded into Double Plays.
Ivan Rodriguez would have replaced Yogi Berra on this list with over 10,000 plate appearances except for the fact that Ivan led the league in GDP in one solitary season.
I am not sure that I got all the players with the most plate appearances on the list -specifically I suspect there were some outfielders I didn't find who never led the league in a seasonal offensive category and had more PA than Rick Monday's 7162. I would welcome anyone's improvements to this list. I confined my search to players whose first year in the Major Leagues was 1890 or later -but I don't think it matters. All the players that made my list, except Yogi Berra, are from the Expansion era when leagues have more than 8 teams and thus leading the league in any category is, presumably, more difficult. (Edit: Also careers are longer in the modern era for various reasons.)
Well, I did just find Dusty Baker who bumps his teammate Rick Monday from the list with 8122 plate appearances and no season-leading offensive statistics. The updated table is:
| Player* | Position | Plate Appearances |
|---|---|---|
| Yogi Berra | C | 8364 |
| Ron Fairly | 1B | 8437 |
| Frank White | 2B | 8468 |
| Scott Rolen | 3B | 8518 |
| Don Kessinger | SS | 8530 |
| Dusty Baker | OF | 8122 |
| Claudell Washington | OF | 7367 |
| Jim Edmonds | OF | 7980 |
Other than Yogi Berra, who was an elite player ( eg: 3 MVPs and twice finished #2 in MVP votes) all of the players above were above-average players who were reasonably productive and had long careers.
Don Kessinger is an oddity. He played 12 years for the Cubs and had the advantage of Wrgley Field. Yet, he hit only 11 homers in those 12 years, and only 14 career homers overall. I don't remember him as an elite defensive shortstop (I see he won the Golden Glove Award only twice) but he made six All-Star teams so he was well regarded. A light hitter but no Rafael Belliard.
Ron Fairly eked out Chris Chambliss who had 8314 plate appearances and who also never led the AL in any seasonal offensive category. Fairly played his first 12 years for the Dodgers in Chavez Ravine and very few hitters racked up good offensive stats there. Defensively, he was a below-average first baseman (-9 DWaRs in his career) and offensively he did not have a lot of power or hit for high average. Yet, he played 22 years in the bigs, so maybe he was good in some way that the stats don't capture.
Am I the only person surprised that Berra didn't lead the American League in some category even once in his career? Not even "Most GDP" or SF or HBP or something? Catchers get rested frequently which seems to cause them to not be league-leaders in offensive stats as frequently as other positions. And clearly, observers persistently rated him as one of the best players in the AL. Maybe they gave him credit for handling a Yankee pitching staff that was Whitey Ford and 8 homeless people and leading them to so many World Championships.
I imagine Washington had a ton of games as a DH.
It's an interesting experiment.
Quote: gordonm888
Am I the only person surprised that Berra didn't lead the American League in some category even once in his career? Not even "Most GDP" or SF or HBP or something? Catchers get rested frequently which seems to cause them to not be league-leaders in offensive stats as frequently as other positions. And clearly, observers persistently rated him as one of the best players in the AL. Maybe they gave him credit for handling a Yankee pitching staff that was Whitey Ford and 8 homeless people and leading them to so many World Championships.
One thing that cracks me up about Yogi
When he was batting, he swung at a lot of pitches that would have been a ball rather then a strike
It drove pitchers crazy
Because
He got hits out of some of those swings
Quote: billryanDo you factor in the hundreds of plate appearances some of these made as DH?
I imagine Washington had a ton of games as a DH.
It's an interesting experiment.
The plate appearances are total numbers for their entire career -no matter what defensive position they played. But each of these players just happen to be easy to categorize into a defensive position. Like, Kessinger played 1955 of 2062 games at shortstop. Claudell played in 1685 games, only 77 at DH and everything else was OF. On the other hand, Ron Fairly only played 1218 games at 1B, 1037 games in the OF and 63 games at DH.
And in 2023 games, Scott Rolen never played any position other than 3B! That's rare, especially at 3B. Even Brooks Robinson played some 2B and SS.
one more note about Satchel Paige
it was probably a publicity stunt but still
in 1965 at the age of 58 - or older - he pitched 3 shutout innings for Cleveland
https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/p/paigesa01.shtml
Quote: gordonm888Here's a table that I've originated- the MLB players at each defensive position with the most career plate appearances who never led their league in any offensive category during any regular season.
That is very cool. A few things:
-A starting lineup of these eight would be a great team. Possibly the best in the league. Pitching might be weak, coukld end up with Wandy Rodriguez and JA Happ level rotation.
-Looks like Kessinger was below average every year except for about two years. In 1969 and 72 he had both the best hitting and fielding stats of his career. Of course at that time only about 10 - 12 short stops in the world could be considered 'above average'. He was definitely better than anyone else the Cubs would have been putting out there.
-Surprised about Berra. Would have guessed RBIs hitting behind Mantle and winning MVPs. Or GIDP, hitting behind Mantle and always putting the ball in play. Voters seriously overrated catchers, giving a combined six MVPs to Berra and Campanella.
-Highest career WAR is Rolen, followed by Edmonds. Both similar careers. Injured just enough to never lead the league, but still played over 2000 games, with very great hitting and defense. Todd Helton is similar in that regard.
-Would be interesting to see a list using all of MLB leaders, instead of just AL or NL leaders. Seeing how good this group is, it might be a list of great players.
https://www.mlb.com/player/torii-hunter-116338
Quote: KeeneoneCool idea with the baseball league leader list. As others have mentioned, Berra is quite surprising to be on there. I did some thinking and looking around on the topic. Did not come up with much, but it looks like OF - Torii Hunter (9692 PA) may make the list. Please check my work.
https://www.mlb.com/player/torii-hunter-116338
You are correct! Great catch! I never thought to look at Torii, So far he is the all-time leader -longest career without ever leading a league in an offensive stat.
| Player* | Position | Plate Appearances |
|---|---|---|
| Yogi Berra | C | 8364 |
| Ron Fairly | 1B | 8437 |
| Frank White | 2B | 8468 |
| Scott Rolen | 3B | 8518 |
| Don Kessinger | SS | 8530 |
| Dusty Baker | OF | 8122 |
| Torii Hunter | OF | 9692 |
| Jim Edmonds | OF | 7980 |
* Players who have never led their league in any offensive category in any regular season
Browns are in the playoffs for the first time in 18 years
but Covid is taking aim at them
their Head Coach, 5 other employees and a Guard have tested positive
last week they beat the Steelers to qualify missing 6 players and many coaches due to Covid
but the Steelers didn't care about winning
and there is speculation that the situation might get worse and the NFL might have to postpone playoff games
https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2021/01/06/cleveland-browns-covid-kevin-stefanski/
