HBO series on Gina Fiore

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HBO is developing a movie based on the life of advantage player Gina Fiore who beat casinos for millions at blackjack


https://www.casino.org/news/hbo-developing-casino-drama-advantage-player-starring-riley-keough/


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Thread split from Misc Discussion, since I have a hunch that this topic will generate a fair few posts.

This coincides with her book release on October 27th: https://www.amazon.com/Advantage-Player-Blackjack-Backrooms-Beginnings-ebook/dp/B0GK5LWSQ5

Quote: Dieter

Thread split from Misc Discussion, since I have a hunch that this topic will generate a fair few posts.
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What makes her AP skills stand out such that hbo took notice?

Quote: 100xOdds

Quote: Dieter

Thread split from Misc Discussion, since I have a hunch that this topic will generate a fair few posts.
link to original post

What makes her AP skills stand out such that hbo took notice?
link to original post

Based on the numerous interviews I've heard, it promises to be an engaging book. I understand the series will be based on the book.

I also understand that she will be consulting on the show, to get the details right - the stupid stuff that dramatic reenactments often get wrong about AP, like "do the cards on the table make sense for the story?"

Even if you omit the AP antics, the court cases alone should be fascinating.

As for her skills, I can only guess. The one and only time I believe I encountered her, the play was interrupted and I was chased away before I could glimpse what was up.

I volunteer to be an actor in these HBO movies.

Quote: Dieter

What makes her AP skills stand out such that hbo took notice?

I signed up to her paid substack, and gave it a pass the next month.

Her mathematical skills are, to put it mildly, limited. She can memorize charts other people created, that's it. I doubt she really understands anything about the games she plays beyond that and she doesn't have to. Her explanation of technique is often way off-base, for example she states height doesn't matter for hole-card play. This is kinda bs, taller hole-carders exist but you are at a huge disadvantage if you are over 6ft relative to a borderline dwarf like James Grosjean, you probably won't get even half as many opportunities. I suspect she says stuff like this because she doesn't want people to stop giving her substack money, and she's very greedy ($600+ to be a "founder" member). If you tell people how niche and demographically specific advantage play is you shrink your market smaller than your typical midget LVHCM member.

That said, her understanding of casino comportment is pretty good as is her use of psychological manipulation.

Like a lot of crossroaders you can learn more from the methods she uses to sell to you than what she's actually selling.

I suspect any drama will be very loosely based on the actuality of her life, she's not really that interesting beyond the basic premise of women card player which would get old in a heartbeat. If you've seen the mentalist you'll know what I mean, they ran out of mentalism tricks to do pretty fast and resorted to formulaic detective stuff and romantic sub-plots real quick.
Stuff like "I had to sit in this old guy's piss to play a great game" is an interesting anecdote to gamblers, to normal humans it makes no sense and just sounds like moral degeneracy.

Quote: Dieter

Even if you omit the AP antics, the court cases alone should be fascinating.

As for her skills, I can only guess. The one and only time I believe I encountered her, the play was interrupted and I was chased away before I could glimpse what was up.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walden_v._Fiore

Interesting.. Why didn't she sue in Georgia?
Nevada had nothing to do with this, besides her living there.

Quote: GrahamThorp

Her mathematical skills are, to put it mildly, limited. She can memorize charts other people created, that's it. I doubt she really understands anything about the games she plays beyond that and she doesn't have to.
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I disagree with exactly none of that.

That said, an advantage play consists of three components. If any are missing, you don't have a play. Math is one, bankroll is another, and execution is the third.

Then again, I liked Molly's Game well enough, and there really wasn't a new play in there.

Quote: Dieter

Quote: GrahamThorp

Her mathematical skills are, to put it mildly, limited. She can memorize charts other people created, that's it. I doubt she really understands anything about the games she plays beyond that and she doesn't have to.
link to original post

I disagree with exactly none of that.

That said, an advantage play consists of three components. If any are missing, you don't have a play. Math is one, bankroll is another, and execution is the third.

Then again, I liked Molly's Game well enough, and there really wasn't a new play in there.
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What I meant by limited mathematical skills is that she demonstrated zero interest in the mathematics of games.

She learnt or was told that if she followed the strategy in a book by someone who seemed respectable it would probably work. That's what most people do, it is not really a criticism of her as such. An AP can get by doing that. It doesn't contradict what you have written above since the math was done...just by someone else.

It is somewhat problematic if you are selling an ap substack since you can't really innovate anything and all your strategy advice comes from secondary sources. Her advice on getting reads was better and may be worth it to some, but she kinda ruined it for me by implying you could have simultaneous careers in pro basketball and hole-carding, that's just dumb.

I'd be curious to find out which casinos hire security guards so unfathomably stupid as to backroom a woman. Especially one who is an AP, who are morally flexible when it comes to money, and are usually not doing or holding anything illegal that can be used as a negotiating chip. ("We'll drop the cheating charges if you drop the skin charges.") All she has to do is make a claim and those guys are in for a miserable experience, and depending on the jurisdiction they may be treated as guilty until proven innocent. Their employer will throw them under the bus too, on advice of counsel.

Quote: GrahamThorp

What I meant by limited mathematical skills is that she demonstrated zero interest in the mathematics of games.
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(snip!)

The person getting the money down doesn't need to be the person figuring out the play. I know plenty of people who see something intriguing and call their math guy to crunch numbers.

Quote: GrahamThorp

Quote: Dieter

What makes her AP skills stand out such that hbo took notice?

I signed up to her paid substack, and gave it a pass the next month.

Her mathematical skills are, to put it mildly, limited. She can memorize charts other people created, that's it. I doubt she really understands anything about the games she plays beyond that and she doesn't have to. Her explanation of technique is often way off-base, for example she states height doesn't matter for hole-card play. This is kinda bs, taller hole-carders exist but you are at a huge disadvantage if you are over 6ft relative to a borderline dwarf like James Grosjean, you probably won't get even half as many opportunities. I suspect she says stuff like this because she doesn't want people to stop giving her substack money, and she's very greedy ($600+ to be a "founder" member). If you tell people how niche and demographically specific advantage play is you shrink your market smaller than your typical midget LVHCM member.

That said, her understanding of casino comportment is pretty good as is her use of psychological manipulation.

Like a lot of crossroaders you can learn more from the methods she uses to sell to you than what she's actually selling.

I suspect any drama will be very loosely based on the actuality of her life, she's not really that interesting beyond the basic premise of women card player which would get old in a heartbeat. If you've seen the mentalist you'll know what I mean, they ran out of mentalism tricks to do pretty fast and resorted to formulaic detective stuff and romantic sub-plots real quick.
Stuff like "I had to sit in this old guy's piss to play a great game" is an interesting anecdote to gamblers, to normal humans it makes no sense and just sounds like moral degeneracy.
link to original post

Grahm while it’s true being short is an advantage, I know more than a handful who are 6ft or taller and one who is around 6’5” who was a very successful hole carder.

Quote: Hunterhill

Grahm while it’s true being short is an advantage, I know more than a handful who are 6ft or taller and one who is around 6’5” who was a very successful hole carder.
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I'm under 6' tall and have NEVER seen a hole card opportunity in uth in the years i've been playing. (i dont play bj)

Quote: 100xOdds

Quote: Hunterhill

Grahm while it’s true being short is an advantage, I know more than a handful who are 6ft or taller and one who is around 6’5” who was a very successful hole carder.
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I'm under 6' tall and have NEVER seen a hole card opportunity in uth in the years i've been playing. (i dont play bj)
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No offense but you don’t know what you’re looking for. I see opportunities frequently in Uth in multiple casinos. I am over 6ft

Quote: Hunterhill

Grahm while it’s true being short is an advantage, I know more than a handful who are 6ft or taller and one who is around 6’5” who was a very successful hole carder.
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Yeah I agree and I covered that in the post you quoted "This is kinda bs, taller hole-carders exist but you are at a huge disadvantage if you are over 6ft".

But the implication of what Fiore is saying is that it makes no difference, which just isn't true.

Essentially there is a mathematical formula between the depth of your eyeline and the number of visible reads you get. For someone at or below the level of the table itself depending on how you define these things it could literally be over 60%. You don't even need to hole-card, you can read the undercard on the stacks during the shuffle and spread to multiple hands during the crossover segment if its an ace.

There's a long history of people using often legally dubious methods to lower their eyeline, rolling up in a wheelchair, the drunk slouching, Taft's "belly-telly" etc. The more dubious schemes could potentially get you jail time: that's how much people were willing to risk just to be shorter.

Tall players certainly have a role in an ap team using physical methods to gain information. For some methods of reading the deck height actually helps. But to imply that there isn't a premium to being shorter is disingenuous.

As far as I know, hole-carding does not exist in North America, both in UTH and Blackjack.

Quote: aceside

As far as I know, hole-carding does not exist in North America, both in UTH and Blackjack.
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You are correct. It’s like Bigfoot.

Quote: Hunterhill

Quote: aceside

As far as I know, hole-carding does not exist in North America, both in UTH and Blackjack.
link to original post

You are correct. It’s like Bigfoot.
link to original post

I’ve played many dozens of casinos. Man.

Quote: aceside

Quote: Hunterhill

Quote: aceside

As far as I know, hole-carding does not exist in North America, both in UTH and Blackjack.
link to original post

You are correct. It’s like Bigfoot.
link to original post

I’ve played many dozens of casinos. Man.
link to original post

And yet you claim it doesn’t exist

Quote: Hunterhill

Quote: aceside

Quote: Hunterhill

Quote: aceside

As far as I know, hole-carding does not exist in North America, both in UTH and Blackjack.
link to original post

You are correct. It’s like Bigfoot.
link to original post

I’ve played many dozens of casinos. Man.
link to original post

And yet you claim it doesn’t exist
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I'm quite convinced it doesn't exist.
There was a woman I met who simply had amazing feminine intuition about cards, however. If she took insurance, I'd take insurance. If she tucked a 15, I'd tuck my stiff.
She couldn't possibly have seen a down card; her wheelchair barely let her see over the rail.

Quote: Hunterhill

Quote: aceside

Quote: Hunterhill

Quote: aceside

As far as I know, hole-carding does not exist in North America, both in UTH and Blackjack.
link to original post

You are correct. It’s like Bigfoot.
link to original post

I’ve played many dozens of casinos. Man.
link to original post

And yet you claim it doesn’t exist
link to original post

I played with a self-proclaimed hole carder one afternoon, and he'd signal me when he saw it. I got the signal about six times over two hours, and he was spot on each time.
Knowing he was on to something, I studied the dealer as I'd never studied one and didn't see anything.

Quote: billryan

Quote: Hunterhill

Quote: aceside

Quote: Hunterhill

Quote: aceside

As far as I know, hole-carding does not exist in North America, both in UTH and Blackjack.
link to original post

You are correct. It’s like Bigfoot.
link to original post

I’ve played many dozens of casinos. Man.
link to original post

And yet you claim it doesn’t exist
link to original post

I played with a self-proclaimed hole carder one afternoon, and he'd signal me when he saw it. I got the signal about six times over two hours, and he was spot on each time.
Knowing he was on to something, I studied the dealer as I'd never studied one and didn't see anything.
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If you’re only getting it 6 times in two hours then the game isn’t good enough.

The guy told me the LVHCM had chased him off better games. It's also possible he saw many more, but only told me occasionally. I had a falling out with him after I saw him cheating. Perhaps it's a coincidence, but I saw him wandering Sams Town a few months later with a cast on his left hand.
I personally made more money exploiting promos than playing BJ and found my time was better spent hunting estate sales and second-hand shops.
I respect those with the ability and inclination to beat the house.