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jwblue
jwblue
Joined: Jan 25, 2011
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October 4th, 2011 at 11:53:41 AM permalink
http://www.lvrj.com/business/couple-accused-of-dice-sliding-at-wynn-las-vegas-130900938.html?ref=938


Quote: wizard

Note: Article removed by the Wiz. Please DO NOT copy and paste entire articles on this site. I could get sued for copyright infringement, and the LVRJ has been known to do that.




#1...How was the person not caught by the people running the game.

#2.. I am surprised that most casinos don't enforce the rule that the dice need to hit the back wall.

#3... It seems like cheating to me. Craps is meant to be a game of luck. Not skill.
HOWEVER, IF THE TABLE SUPERVISORS ALLOWED THE ROLL AND DID NOT CALL "NO ROLL"... THE GAMBLERS SHOULD BE PAID. IF THE ROLL RESULTED IN THE GAMBLERS LOSING MONEY, THE CASINO WOULD HAVE COLLECTED AND KEPT THE WAGERS.

I encourage any dissenting opinions to help me understand why it is not.
progrocker
progrocker
Joined: Feb 21, 2010
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October 4th, 2011 at 12:05:22 PM permalink
Yeah, they've been discussing this on VMB for a day or so. I agree with your point #3. A lot of rolls don't hit the back wall, and they may yell at the roller or warn them, but unless they call 'no roll' it is still a valid roll. This is basically like going back and retroactively calling 'no roll'. If the casino gets away with it in this case, why wouldn't they do it with everyone that won big, finding some excuse about their rolling to nullify wins after the fact. It sets a dangerous precedent if Wynn wins this.
Solo venimos, solo nos vamos. Y aqui nos juntamos, juntos que estamos.
odiousgambit
odiousgambit
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October 4th, 2011 at 12:07:07 PM permalink
IMO, with limited knowledge of the real details, seems as though it was up to someone to call "no dice" ... failing that, pay them! is my first thought. Maybe if I saw what they were up to in the way of distraction I'd feel differently.

Nevada law and courts supposedly side heavily with the casinos I'm told.
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!” She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
heather
heather
Joined: Jun 12, 2011
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October 4th, 2011 at 12:15:58 PM permalink
Quote: jwblue

#1...How was the person not caught by the people running the game.

#2.. I am surprised that most casinos don't enforce the rule that the dice need to hit the back wall.



They were big players. I saw another article about this case where it said that their m.o. was to deposit such a huge amount of money at the cage that the casino was willing to bend the rules as regards the backwall. The article said that it isn't uncommon for casinos to modify or ignore rules of games for high rollers. This annoyed me enormously in that I've never heard of this particular comp before. How much to I have to be betting to make the Banker commission go away? Seriously, tell me and I will start betting that amount. Or, how about Dealer Stands On Five?
kp
kp
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October 4th, 2011 at 12:16:46 PM permalink
If it was discovered after the fact that they were using loaded dice, would it still be too late because the pit did not call "no roll" at the time?

Tough case. I can see some good arguments for both sides.
MrRalph
MrRalph
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October 4th, 2011 at 12:22:13 PM permalink
Yes, it would be dangerous territory for the casinos to start calling no rolls all the time. I know I have been at the table where the shooter did not hit the backwall but hit everything else on the table so it was obvious there was nothing skill related going. The one time it was an old lady at the Paris and she hit me, the chips in front of the box man and everything else on the table and she had one of those rolls we wait for our whole trip rolling number after number and nothing was said. The casino certainly could have started calling no rolls because she was not hitting the backwall but they did not I guess because her throws were obviously random. They would then have had egg on their face if a seven was rolled on the same type of roll and nothing was said. I think as long as the dice are thrown in the air and a valid attempt to hit the backwall is made it should be a good roll wether the dice are set or not. I do not think that it is possible for anyone to be good enough for the casinos to worry about as long as the dice go airborn and down the table.
MrV
MrV
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October 4th, 2011 at 12:27:31 PM permalink
NRS 465.070 Fraudulent acts. It is unlawful for any person:

7. To manipulate, with the intent to cheat, any component of a gaming device in a manner contrary to the designed and normal operational purpose for the component, including, but not limited to, varying the pull of the handle of a slot machine, with knowledge that the manipulation affects the outcome of the game or with knowledge of any event that affects the outcome of the game.


Given the above expansive definition, dice setting could arguably charged as a felony.
"What, me worry?"
FleaStiff
FleaStiff
Joined: Oct 19, 2009
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October 4th, 2011 at 1:05:55 PM permalink
Sounds like these two were identifiable but the critical "blockers" were not. Blockers physically block the view of the crew/camera and physically distract someones attention at a critical moment in time.

Sounds like the crews got lax, surveillance was asleep and now the Wynn wants its money back and is going to sweat the two front players on the team.

Anyone know where these two were the second night The M Resort opened? I heard South American team from one source but heard Ukrainian team from other sources.

Where have they been in the meantime?

Note: Depositing a tempting sum in the cage is great but usually it just gets high limit room accommodations, however there usually is no craps table in the high limit room.

I once tossed the dice and it turned out to be a lob that didn't bounce at all. I would have called in a no roll but I think the crew just looked at what my bet was and figured they would let the "roll" stand.

I think the "gaming bord ordered the arrest" is typical.
buzzpaff
buzzpaff
Joined: Mar 8, 2011
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October 4th, 2011 at 1:10:32 PM permalink
Hey, let's cut to the chase. Get caught cheating in Vegas and you are looking at jail time.

Every episode of Baretta began with the song, which contained the motto, "Don't do the crime if you can't do the time." The song was released as a single in Europe in 1976, reaching number one in the Dutch Top 40 as "Baretta's Theme".

Evidently the Dutch do more than just wear wooden shoes !
jwblue
jwblue
Joined: Jan 25, 2011
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October 4th, 2011 at 1:47:49 PM permalink
I am changing my initial thoughts:

Quote: Jwblue

"#3... It seems like cheating to me. Craps is meant to be a game of luck. Not skill.
HOWEVER, IF THE TABLE SUPERVISORS ALLOWED THE ROLL AND DID NOT CALL "NO ROLL"... THE GAMBLERS SHOULD BE PAID. IF THE ROLL RESULTED IN THE GAMBLERS LOSING MONEY, THE CASINO WOULD HAVE COLLECTED AND KEPT THE WAGERS."



If someone tries to cheat, the casinos should get a free shot at a cheaters money.

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