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RaleighCraps
RaleighCraps
Joined: Feb 20, 2010
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October 6th, 2011 at 6:09:46 PM permalink
I would love to see how they were able to slide the dice. On the tables I have played on there are at minimum 2 rods under the felt, on either side of the center section. And most of the tables feel like there is another bar in the Come area
Always borrow money from a pessimist; They don't expect to get paid back ! Be yourself and speak your thoughts. Those who matter won't mind, and those that mind, don't matter!
Keyser
Keyser
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October 6th, 2011 at 7:39:46 PM permalink


The Wynn's highly trained dealer and boxman didn't have any idea that the players were sliding the dice.
EvenBob
EvenBob
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October 6th, 2011 at 7:49:26 PM permalink
Quote: Keyser



The Wynn's highly trained dealer and boxman didn't have any idea that the players were sliding the dice.



The Wynn does like to hire 'family'..
"It's not enough to succeed, your friends must fail." Gore Vidal
Paigowdan
Paigowdan
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October 6th, 2011 at 7:51:36 PM permalink
Quote: boymimbo

Quote: NRS 465


NRS 465.015 Definitions. As used in this chapter:

1. “Cheat” means to alter the elements of chance, method of selection or criteria which determine:
(a) The result of a game;
(b) The amount or frequency of payment in a game;
(c) The value of a wagering instrument; or
(d) The value of a wagering credit.



....
There is NO regulation within the gambling statutes of Nevada that defines what is an illegal versus a legal throw...


Sliding the dice is covered by the very same NRS regulation that you quoted in black and white, right above you not seeing it covered by NRS 465.015 - to alter the elements of chance...which determine the results of a game. Sliding the dice alter the elements of chance which determine the results of a game. Duh.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
Paigowdan
Paigowdan
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October 6th, 2011 at 7:52:40 PM permalink
Quote: RaleighCraps

I would love to see how they were able to slide the dice. On the tables I have played on there are at minimum 2 rods under the felt, on either side of the center section. And most of the tables feel like there is another bar in the Come area


That's a good solution!
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
Keyser
Keyser
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October 6th, 2011 at 7:55:16 PM permalink
' rel='nofollow' target='_blank'>http://us.123rf.com/400wm/400/400/logos/logos1009/logos100900107/8047292-portrait-of-a-senior-male-entrepreneur-wearing-blindfold-and-searching-somebody.jpg.jpg]

We're also supposed to believe that this is the pitboss, and that he too did not notice that the players were sliding the dice.
AlanMendelson
AlanMendelson
Joined: Oct 5, 2011
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October 6th, 2011 at 11:38:39 PM permalink
Quote: RaleighCraps

I would love to see how they were able to slide the dice. On the tables I have played on there are at minimum 2 rods under the felt, on either side of the center section. And most of the tables feel like there is another bar in the Come area



Good question. Not all casinos have the "bumper" or "string" or "rods" under the layout. Caesars doesn't. Sam's Town does. I dont think Bellagio or the other MGM properties have it. When I checked the tables at Wynn I did not "feel" for them, as it was not a concern at the time. I did feel the mushy table, however and as a result never played there.

The way things are going, someday they might make craps tables look like "bumper pool" tables with obstacles in the landing zones to keep "dice influencers" from hitting the mid section of the back wall and from getting an unobstructed bounce. LOL
pacomartin
pacomartin
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October 7th, 2011 at 2:11:37 AM permalink
Quote: Paigowdan


NRS 465.015 Definitions. As used in this chapter:

1. “Cheat” means to alter the elements of chance, method of selection or criteria which determine:
(a) The result of a game;
(b) The amount or frequency of payment in a game;
(c) The value of a wagering instrument; or
(d) The value of a wagering credit.

Sliding the dice is covered by the very same NRS regulation that you quoted in black and white, right above you not seeing it covered by NRS 465.015 - to alter the elements of chance...which determine the results of a game. Sliding the dice alter the elements of chance which determine the results of a game. Duh.



With all due respect, you are absolutely correct that sliding dice alters the elements of chance. But normally laws are written to be as broad in scope as possible. You would not want a law that say you can't "top off your chips post roll" , since that would be covered by element 1.(c) .

But consider all the betting techniques, superstitions, streak followers, and the sheer percentage of people out there who believe they can control dice. All of them think they are capable of altering the element so chance. Gambling thrives on this belief.

I just don't think this case is winnable. The alternate theory is simply much easier to believe.
(1) They have evidence or testimony of collusion with an employee. Maybe the employee gave up the couple to get away with simply being fired and not prosecuted. Since the "dice sliding" would presumably have to be attempted dozens of times to make a significant bankroll, I would think collusion would be very likely.
(2) The Wynn would like to enforce a no exceptions rule to a "no roll" unless you hit the back wall. The only way to counter player anger is to have a very high profile case that they can point to. Even if one person gets angry, most of the players on the table will have heard of the rule.

I would be shocked if this case goes to court. The couple will return some percentage of the money since this will save them legal fees. Wynn Resorts will accept that money but require a non-disclosure statement. Wynn will get what they ultimately want, the ability to call "no rolls" without extreme player backlash.
EvenBob
EvenBob
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October 7th, 2011 at 2:46:15 AM permalink
>>1. “Cheat” means to alter the elements of chance, method of selection or criteria which determine:
(a) The result of a game;
(b) The amount or frequency of payment in a game;
(c) The value of a wagering instrument; or
(d) The value of a wagering credit.>>>

This is why card counting is NOT cheating, as Dan
claims. Counting does not alter any part of the game.
It alters or changes nothing. Prove that it does, Dan,
or stop calling it cheating.
"It's not enough to succeed, your friends must fail." Gore Vidal
SanchoPanza
SanchoPanza
Joined: May 10, 2010
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October 7th, 2011 at 4:46:12 AM permalink
Quote: Paigowdan

No, it is written in internal procedure manuals, documentation and in pit briefings. Customers who walk in off the street cannot demand to see them anymore than they can demand to see fire code compliance records from a movie house ticket clerk while pretending to be a Fire Marhsall


Then Wynn or any other casino had better be ready to be laughed out of court. It is preposterous to suggest that hidden rules, procedures or whatever you want to call them can form the basis of legal actions, either civil or criminal.

And as for the so-called "altering the games of chance," besides my mind (and its systems and ESP), alcohol, scantily clad dealers, music and distracting lights should be included in that inanely--and presumably illegally--broad category.

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