Coronavirus math
Quote: SOOPOO. Not sure I understand you... Are you saying the multimillion dollar lottery winner doesn’t become wealthy?
In most cases, no. In any event, what wealth was created by giving them a large sum of money? Money was taken( or given) from mostly poor people and awarded to him. History shows that the person will most likely end up giving that money back, mostly to rich people.
To put it in simple terms. Scrooge went to bed rich. He woke up wealthy. Unsurprisingly, many people won't get it.
Richard Cory was rich. People thought he was wealthy.
Sweden became famous for not imposing lockdowns and restrictions
from the article:
"On Monday, the country’s statistics agency said Sweden recorded 8,088 deaths from all causes last month, the second-deadliest month for the country of 10 million in its modern history, eclipsed only by the Spanish flu epidemic of 1918.
A new surge of Covid-19 cases is increasing pressure on the Swedish government to further tighten restrictions, as an independent report criticized Stockholm’s policy of shunning lockdowns and Prime Minister Stefan Löfven said government advisers had underestimated the threat of this autumn’s rise.
More Covid-19 patients have filled intensive-care beds in much of the Scandinavian country in recent weeks.
With a daily average of over 6,000 new cases over the past week, hospitals in virtually all of the country are under strain, Ann Söderström, Sweden’s director of health and medical care, told reporters Tuesday. In Stockholm, hospitals have nearly twice as many Covid-19 patients as they do intensive-care beds, said Bjorn Eriksson, the city’s health and medical
The increase in deaths and hospitalizations has already forced Sweden to set aside a policy of using voluntary measures to contain the virus, a strategy that has drawn global interest. By contrast, most European countries have used lockdowns and mandatory restrictions to contain the virus this year.
On Tuesday, Mr. Lofven said the country's new surge had overpowered his strategy."
"The overall assessment is that the Swedish strategy regarding elderly care has failed," Jimmie Akesson, a leader of the Sweden Democrats wrote on Twitter. " It is a tragic story of how people in Sweden in 2020 died unnecessarily."
Sweden - 745.2 deaths per million from Covid
similar Nordic countries that did have greater restrictions:
Denmark - 165.16 deaths per million
Finland - 84.42 deaths per million
Norway - 73.86 deaths per million
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104709/coronavirus-deaths-worldwide-per-million-inhabitants/
https://www.wsj.com/articles/swedens-covid-19-policy-comes-under-fresh-scrutiny-11608145710
Quote: SOOPOONot sure I understand you....are you saying the multimillion dollar lottery winner doesn't become wealthy?
Quote: billryanIn most cases, no. In any event, what wealth was created by giving them a large sum of money?
"wealth" is just a word
like many words there are many ways to define it - it has more than one meaning
Soopoo is not wrong - neither are you - he just defines it differently
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Bill Gates put a microchip in the vaccine so that he, and/or Microsoft and/or the Feds can track the movements of people
the vaccine will alter a person's DNA -
https://www.bbc.com/news/54893437
Quote: lilredroosterlatest conspiracy theories re the vaccine
Bill Gates put a microchip in the vaccine so that he, and/or Microsoft and/or the Feds can track the movements of people
the vaccine will alter a person's DNA -
Yeah...but
Quote:The American Medical Association never took back its March statement concerning hydroxychloroquine. The group tweeted that Rush Limbaugh’s claim is wrong.
The AMA considered a resolution to rescind a previous statement on the drug when the group’s policymaking body met in November. But it ultimately rejected the resolution.
The website Limbaugh cited has corrected its story.
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/dec/16/rush-limbaugh/no-american-medical-association-didnt-rescind-stat/
from the article:
"the variant is up to 70% more transmissible than earlier versions, officials said"
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/19/world/europe/coronavirus-uk-new-variant.html
Quote: lilredroosterthe virus has mutated in London causing PM Boris Johnson and the Brits to freak out
from the article:
"the variant is up to 70% more transmissible than earlier versions, officials said"
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/19/world/europe/coronavirus-uk-new-variant.html
What's currently unknown?
How effective are the vaccines just approved against the mutation.
New Flu shots required every year because of mutation. A covid strain 70% more effective at spreading and if it's immune to the current vaccines then.. well probably no spring fling this year either.
Of course it's not here in the states yet. That mantra across the nation "we don't have to worry, it's not here" has worked out well so far, hasn't it?
Quote: darkozWhat's currently unknown?
How effective are the vaccines just approved against the mutation.
New Flu shots required every year because of mutation. A covid strain 70% more effective at spreading and if it's immune to the current vaccines then.. well probably no spring fling this year either.
Of course it's not here in the states yet. That mantra across the nation "we don't have to worry, it's not here" has worked out well so far, hasn't it?
Also unknown is it’s virulence. Viruses have a tendency to mutate to be more transmissible and less virulent.
Quote: unJonAlso unknown is it’s virulence. Viruses have a tendency to mutate to be more transmissible and less virulent.
Logically they should only get worse half the time.
Just because there are two possibilities doesn’t mean they are equally weighted.Quote: AZDuffmanLogically they should only get worse half the time.
Quote: unJonJust because there are two possibilities doesn’t mean they are equally weighted.
No, but that goes down a huge rabbit hole.
Since the most deadly viruses are rare then it should mutate to something weaker. I would suggest how this relates to general mutations but I am too tired to unintentionally hijack a thread. And I need to wrap the silver for the nieces and nephews presents.
Quote: terapinedIt was a beautiful warm day outside yesterday so I decided to get some exercise waking the part of the Strip. I was thrilled to see just about everybody outside wearing a mask.
Ed, I am worried about you. Since when is 65 degrees a beautiful warm day? A beautiful warm day needs to be at least a minimum of 85 degrees in Vegas. You will see that in Vegas it doesn't even get hot until it is 100 and that is still very tolerable. When it gets to 110 even I will admit that is too hot to be in the sun but is nice in the shade.
Quote: DRichEd, I am worried about you. Since when is 65 degrees a beautiful warm day? A beautiful warm day needs to be at least a minimum of 85 degrees in Vegas.
Does your blood actually still circulate from all your inactivity?
Quote: DRichEd, I am worried about you. Since when is 65 degrees a beautiful warm day? A beautiful warm day needs to be at least a minimum of 85 degrees in Vegas. You will see that in Vegas it doesn't even get hot until it is 100 and that is still very tolerable. When it gets to 110 even I will admit that is too hot to be in the sun but is nice in the shade.
Warm considering whats coming tomorrow and the rest of the week
Gonna do the Downtown walk around and exercise
but
I agree with you, true warm weather is shorts weather and I'm not wearing shorts downtown today
I'm actually getting tired of this weather
I only like to ride my bike in shorts
Moving south in a few weeks for warmer weather. Got a spot in Quartzite then probably Phoenix or Tucson.
I just don't get it. I understand times are tough, but at least try selling water.
Quote: terapinedWarm considering whats coming tomorrow and the rest of the week
Gonna do the Downtown walk around and exercise
but
I agree with you, true warm weather is shorts weather and I'm not wearing shorts downtown today
I'm actually getting tired of this weather
I only like to ride my bike in shorts
Moving south in a few weeks for warmer weather. Got a spot in Quartzite then probably Phoenix or Tucson.
From when I lost my job in March I didn't wear pants or shoes until the start of December. I really want to live somewhere where I never need to wear long pants or shoes. Shorts and flip-flops are my desired everyday clothing.
Quote: rxwineDoes your blood actually still circulate from all your inactivity?
I don't think so. I have always been the laziest person that I know but it is even worse now. My only activity is walking through the grocery store. I am currently wearing a sweatshirt, sweatpants, and I have a blanket over me and the house is 75 degrees. I am freezing.
Quote: DRichI don't think so. I have always been the laziest person that I know but it is even worse now. My only activity is walking through the grocery store. I am currently wearing a sweatshirt, sweatpants, and I have a blanket over me and the house is 75 degrees. I am freezing.
Sounds almost like my life.
Quote:
"The taverns are full of gadabouts making merry this eve and though I may press my face like an urchin at a confectioner's, I am tempted not by the sweetness within. A dram in exchange for the pox is an ill bargain indeed."
Diary of Samuel Pepys re the Great Plague of 1665-6.
Quote: lilredrooster........................
Quote:
"The taverns are full of gadabouts making merry this eve and though I may press my face like an urchin at a confectioner's, I am tempted not by the sweetness within. A dram in exchange for the pox is an ill bargain indeed."
Diary of Samuel Pepys re the Great Plague of 1665-6.
Amazing they had it figured out so many years ago.
Covid is so out of control in CA that emergency workers have been instructed to ration oxygen to patients
and not only that
from the article:
"Health authorities in Los Angeles County have directed ambulance crews not to transport some cardiac arrest patients whose survival is unlikely. At some hospitals, patients are being lined up outside while workers try to find bed space."
"unlikely" -
I would interpret that to mean:
if the ambulance worker, a person with limited medical skills and knowledge, thinks a person has only a 25% chance of surviving - just let him go
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/05/world/california-covid-oxygen-coronavirus.html
Quote: lilredrooster..........................
Covid is so out of control in CA that emergency workers have been instructed to ration oxygen to patients
and not only that
from the article:
"Health authorities in Los Angeles County have directed ambulance crews not to transport some cardiac arrest patients whose survival is unlikely. At some hospitals, patients are being lined up outside while workers try to find bed space."
"unlikely" -
I would interpret that to mean:
if the ambulance worker, a person with limited medical skills and knowledge, thinks a person has only a 25% chance of surviving - just let him go
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/05/world/california-covid-oxygen-coronavirus.html
How is this all possible if they are locked down and wearing masks?
Quote: AZDuffmanHow is this all possible if they are locked down and wearing masks?
this is a result of prior to the lockdown - it takes time for a person to develop serious enough symptoms to require hospitalization
and also, great numbers of them are ignoring and violating the rules of the lockdown - as they are just about everywhere
are you suggesting that it's not possible? that the story is fiction? - fake news? - that the New York Times makes up its' stories to suit its' agenda?
the pic below:
patients being put into a tent outside of hospital:
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Quote: lilredroosterthis is a result of prior to the lockdown - it takes time for a person to develop serious enough symptoms to require hospitalization
and also, great numbers of them are ignoring and violating the rules of the lockdown - as they are just about everywhere
are you suggesting that it's not possible? that the story is fiction? - fake news? - that the New York Times makes up its' stories to suit its' agenda?
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Funny then we are not hearing of even worse from far less locked down Florida.
What I am "suggesting" as you put it is the lockdowns are not doing anything. The masks are not doing anything. America has to accept that this is happening and it is what it will be.
Quote: AZDuffmanHow is this all possible if they are locked down and wearing masks?
The same way there are auto fatalities even though we have seatbelt laws and speed limits.
People don't follow the law, people suffer the consequences.
Quote: darkozThe same way there are auto fatalities even though we have seatbelt laws and speed limits.
People don't follow the law, people suffer the consequences.
But we were told masks and lockdowns and all would be well?
How did this happen? Can't all be because a few people hate masks.
Quote: AZDuffmanBut we were told masks and lockdowns and all would be well?
How did this happen? Can't all be because a few people hate masks.
Actually that's precisely how contagion works.
You either fight 100% or face the consequences.
The US is now facing the consequences
Quote: AZDuffmanCan't all be because a 𝐟𝐞𝐰 people hate masks.
your use of the word 𝐟𝐞𝐰 is telling
everybody knows it's way more than a 𝐟𝐞𝐰 including you
it's hundreds of thousands, probably actually millions
you used the word 𝐟𝐞𝐰 because it fits in nicely with your agenda
𝙩𝙝𝙖𝙩 𝙙𝙤𝙜 𝙬𝙤𝙣'𝙩 𝙝𝙪𝙣𝙩
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Quote: lilredroosteryour use of the word 𝐟𝐞𝐰 is telling
everybody knows it's way more than a 𝐟𝐞𝐰 including you
it's hundreds of thousands, probably actually millions
you used the word 𝐟𝐞𝐰 because it fits in nicely with your agenda
𝙩𝙝𝙖𝙩 𝙙𝙤𝙜 𝙬𝙤𝙣'𝙩 𝙝𝙪𝙣𝙩
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Just going by what the maskers say. They keep saying most people want the masks.
Quote: darkozActually that's precisely how contagion works.
You either fight 100% or face the consequences.
The US is now facing the consequences
Yeah, well, we are a free society not North Korea where they force such things better.
It is what it is.
Quote: AZDuffmanJust going by what the maskers say. They keep saying most people want the masks.
your 100% right - most people want the masks
the population of the U.S. is 329 million people
probably about 250 million adults
maybe 30% are like you and don't wear masks - that's 75 million people
telling their children they don't need to wear masks adding to the disaster
75 million people like you making this disaster a lot worse than it had to be
want to know how the U.S. got 𝐬𝐨 screwed up by this virus?
take a good long look in the mirror
or don't. and keep pretending you're not making the virus worse by the example you give to others
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Quote: lilredroosteryour 100% right - most people want the masks
the population of the U.S. is 329 million people
probably about 250 million adults
maybe 30% are like you and don't wear masks - that's 75 million people
telling their children they don't need to wear masks adding to the disaster
75 million people like you making this disaster a lot worse than it had to be
want to know how the U.S. got 𝐬𝐨 screwed up by this virus?
take a good long look in the mirror
or don't. and keep pretending you're not making the virus worse by the example you give to others
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Uh, no, not my fault and not the fault of anyone not wanting to wear masks.
The problem is Americans are so used to comfort and having their needs fulfilled that they cannot handle what is comparatively a minor outbreak. They cannot handle that it is what it is. They cannot handle that nature is actually in charge. They think we can make a mask mandate and all will be well.
People need to grow up. To blame the people who do not want to be mask serfs is silly. If the masks worked we would not have the outbreaks we are having.
Gotta deal with reality. Nature cannot always be controlled. Man is not as in charge as you think he is.
Quote: AZDuffmanthey cannot handle what is comparatively a 𝐦𝐢𝐧𝐨𝐫 𝐨𝐮𝐭𝐛𝐫𝐞𝐚𝐤.
𝐦𝐢𝐧𝐨𝐫 𝐨𝐮𝐭𝐛𝐫𝐞𝐚𝐤
getting close to 400,000 dead and very possible or even likely we will get to 500,000
about 50,000 American soldiers killed in Vietnam
about 35,000 soldiers killed in the Korean war
about 408,000 American soldiers killed in World War 2
would you call World War 2 a 𝐦𝐢𝐧𝐨𝐫 𝐨𝐮𝐭𝐛𝐫𝐞𝐚𝐤
your comments show how far out of touch with reality you are
or if it makes you feel better you could say that CDC has wrong stats - that it's fake news, exaggerated and all of that other nonsense
yeah, it's partly your fault. you won't admit it. but that doesn't make it untrue
https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#cases_casesper100klast7days
Quote: lilredrooster𝐦𝐢𝐧𝐨𝐫 𝐨𝐮𝐭𝐛𝐫𝐞𝐚𝐤
getting close to 400,000 dead and very possible or even likely we will get to 500,000
On a population of 350 million that is minor. That the deaths are 95%+ aggravated other conditions yes it is minor.
If you want "major" consider things like USSR deaths in WWII, Chinese Famine, Africa Famines, AIDS in Africa. Those are major.
Calling a 0.1% fatality rate a major thing shows how low the tolerance for adversity the average American has.
Quote: AZDuffman
Calling a 0.1% fatality rate a major thing shows how low the 𝐭𝐨𝐥𝐞𝐫𝐚𝐧𝐜𝐞 for adversity the average American has.
it can be real easy to handle if it hasn't claimed a family member or threatened you yourself and you don't care what happens to those who are strangers to you
if it has claimed a family member then it's not easy to handle
if I had lost my Dad or my Grandpa I wouldn't want anybody telling me I need to be 𝐭𝐨𝐥𝐞𝐫𝐚𝐧𝐭
and again, you made a bad choice of words when you used the word 𝐭𝐨𝐥𝐞𝐫𝐚𝐧𝐜𝐞
virtually everybody is 𝐭𝐨𝐥𝐞𝐫𝐚𝐭𝐢𝐧𝐠 it - some who lost their jobs and might lose their homes might become highly upset or depressed
I can't fault them - I would be depressed too if I was at risk of becoming homeless along with my children
I wouldn't want anybody telling me I need to be 𝐭𝐨𝐥𝐞𝐫𝐚𝐧𝐭
and your quotation of a the very small % who died does not include a great many more who suffered in various ways but didn't die
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Quote: lilredrooster𝐦𝐢𝐧𝐨𝐫 𝐨𝐮𝐭𝐛𝐫𝐞𝐚𝐤
getting close to 400,000 dead and very possible or even likely we will get to 500,000
about 50,000 American soldiers killed in Vietnam
about 35,000 soldiers killed in the Korean war
about 408,000 American soldiers killed in World War 2
would you call World War 2 a 𝐦𝐢𝐧𝐨𝐫 𝐨𝐮𝐭𝐛𝐫𝐞𝐚𝐤
your comments show how far out of touch with reality you are
or if it makes you feel better you could say that CDC has wrong stats - that it's fake news, exaggerated and all of that other nonsense
yeah, it's partly your fault. you won't admit it. but that doesn't make it untrue
https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#cases_casesper100klast7days
Very true, we overreact to the number of dead in every war.
Quote: AZDuffmanUh, no, not my fault and not the fault of anyone not wanting to wear masks.
The problem is Americans are so used to comfort and having their needs fulfilled that they cannot handle what is comparatively a minor INCONVENIENCE They cannot handle that it is what is NEEDED.They cannot handle that nature is actually in charge. They think we can make a mask mandate and all will be well.
People need to grow up. To blame the people who do not want to be mask serfs is silly. If ALLthe PEOPLE WOULD WEAR masks we would not have the outbreaks we are having.
Gotta deal with reality. Nature cannot always be controlled. Man is not as in charge as you think he is.
I made a few changes
You changed the quote, not just the formatting.Quote: HunterhillI made a few changes
Take a day out.
Rule 17
Misquoting: If you quote another member, do not remove, add, or change any wording within the portion quoted. If you wish to emphasize a particular part of the quote, any formatting by the one quoting should be disclosed immediately after the quote. (Added 6/8/2018)
Quote: lilredroosterit can be real easy to handle if it hasn't claimed a family member or threatened you yourself and you don't care what happens to those who are strangers to you
if it has claimed a family member then it's not easy to handle
if I had lost my Dad or my Grandpa I wouldn't want anybody telling me I need to be 𝐭𝐨𝐥𝐞𝐫𝐚𝐧𝐭
and again, you made a bad choice of words when you used the word 𝐭𝐨𝐥𝐞𝐫𝐚𝐧𝐜𝐞
virtually everybody is 𝐭𝐨𝐥𝐞𝐫𝐚𝐭𝐢𝐧𝐠 it - some who lost their jobs and might lose their homes might become highly upset or depressed
I can't fault them - I would be depressed too if I was at risk of becoming homeless along with my children
I wouldn't want anybody telling me I need to be 𝐭𝐨𝐥𝐞𝐫𝐚𝐧𝐭
and your quotation of a the very small % who died does not include a great many more who suffered in various ways but didn't die
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I do not see how tolerance is used wrong. I am using it in the form of accepting something numerical, Like when you machine a part it has to be a certain measurement but there is a tolerance of a few thousandths of an inch. Or a certain thing has a heat tolerance of so many degrees,
Used that way, Americans have a low tolerance for death. Doubt me? How many people said we needed to end the space program because we lost less than 10 astronauts in each Shuttle disaster? HINT: There were many. Or how many want to ban guns because of a small number of gun deaths. Or when people did not want the 55mph speed limit repealed because of a few extra highway deaths. Simply put, Americans cannot accept that death is a part of life.
If it claimed a family member I would be very sad but I would not go around screaming at people who dislike wearing masks or want to keep their business open to keep food in their fridge. I would understand that people get sick in life. That we all have to go.
Most of the nation used to think more along my lines. Like so much it seems post-WWII changed things. Probably the baby boomers living in such peace and prosperity that they think death can be avoided.
Quote: AZDuffmanI do not see how tolerance is used wrong. I am using it in the form of accepting something numerical, Like when you machine a part it has to be a certain measurement but there is a tolerance of a few thousandths of an inch. Or a certain thing has a heat tolerance of so many degrees,
Used that way, Americans have a low tolerance for death. Doubt me? How many people said we needed to end the space program because we lost less than 10 astronauts in each Shuttle disaster? HINT: There were many. Or how many want to ban guns because of a small number of gun deaths. Or when people did not want the 55mph speed limit repealed because of a few extra highway deaths. Simply put, Americans cannot accept that death is a part of life.
If it claimed a family member I would be very sad but I would not go around screaming at people who dislike wearing masks or want to keep their business open to keep food in their fridge. I would understand that people get sick in life. That we all have to go.
Most of the nation used to think more along my lines. Like so much it seems post-WWII changed things. Probably the baby boomers living in such peace and prosperity that they think death can be avoided.
Your insistence that the current calls for masks and social distancing and shutdowns is a new symptom of post WW2 spoiled America is not supported by the facts of the Spanish Flu which resulted in pretty much the same things.
And before you try and argue Spanish Flu was much worse, the US is very close to reaching the same death toll in a similar time frame.
I Know, here is where you start saying deaths are misreported as covid. Thankfully the authorities aren't listening
Quote: darkozYour insistence that the current calls for masks and social distancing and shutdowns is a new symptom of post WW2 spoiled America is not supported by the facts of the Spanish Flu which resulted in pretty much the same things.
And before you try and argue Spanish Flu was much worse, the US is very close to reaching the same death toll in a similar time frame.
I Know, here is where you start saying deaths are misreported as covid. Thankfully the authorities aren't listening
We did not lock the economy down like we did today back then. And the number of deaths is with half as much population.
Quote: AZDuffmanWe did not lock the economy down like we did today back then. And the number of deaths is with half as much population.
We didn't? This is incorrect. Also, there were other pandemics in this country where the founding fathers were still alive and not only would they lock down the colonies that were experiencing outbreaks, they would quarantine themselves to that colony if they were exposed.
To counter the half as much population I offer we have double the information we had at that time, and at that time even they knew that masks work.
Your logic is fallible, your confirmation biases are showing and you do more mental gymnastics to provide false information that is opinion and not factual.
Do you wear pants? Shoes? Shirt? Are you going to state that these are also against your personal freedom and you should not have to wear these in public? Particularly when you enter someone else's home or business?
Mask wearing proves to others whether you are a selfish easily led sheep that believes only convenient thoughts versus someone that remembers that freedoms come with responsibilities to the community that provides the means for that freedom to exist. Claiming that masks are unconstitutional is actually incorrect as well. Personal freedoms have been restricted legally in the past for public health considerations because the group is more important than the individual.
