Spanish word of the day
Quote: NareedGood. Just remind me of it then.
Wizard, it might help before your tutoring session to look at these websites.
English modal verbs
Spanish verbs similar to modal verbs
Technically, Spanish doesn't have modal verbs, as mood is conveyed with verb conjugations (conditional, subjunctive, and imperitive).
Quote: NareedI think I see where you're going. A verb such as "to like" applied directly to many things comes out different than if it's appied to another verb, such as "to eat," regardless of the number of things invovled.
Yes, at least we have pinpointed where my confusion stems from. So connecting another verb to deber, and I would assume poder, changes the subject to the person (he/they) and not the thing (egg/eggs). This, of course, leads me to ask ¿por qué?
Paco, thanks for the suggestion. I will try to get to that, but can't promise. Learning Spanish takes a pretty low priority with me, actually. I view it more as a recreational activity, and going through boring grammar texts will ruin it for me.
Quote: WizardThis, of course, leads me to ask ¿por qué?
Get used to this prhase: ¡Porque sí! :)
Roughly it translates as "because!"
Quote: NareedI think I see where you're going. A verb such as "to like" applied directly to many things comes out different than if it's appied to another verb, such as "to eat," regardless of the number of things invovled.
I'm feeling the spirit of Captian Obvious... ;)
Although we normally translate gustar as "to like" we are just mimicking the preferred English structure. It really should be translated as "to be pleasing (to)" and is used in the 3rd person. The subject of the sentence is the milk / cookies/ eggs/sport/ etc.
In English those things are the "object" of the sentence (where I am using "object" in the grammatical sense).
The translation of "to hate" in the dictionary is (1)odiar, (2)aborrecer, (3)detestar
But we have cognates in English for all those words (1) odor (noun only) , (2) to abhor (verb), (3) to detest (verb)
We can't really use odor as a verb, But we have "odorous" and "malodorous" as seldom used adjectives.
But the reversal of the subject and object isn't consistent when you are using "odiar" as far as I know. I don't know why they are not consistent.
I am also unclear how often "odiar' is used, as opposed to "no le gusta".
Quote: pacomartinAlthough we normally translate gustar as "to like" we are just mimicking the preferred English structure. It really should be translated as "to be pleasing (to)" and is used in the 3rd person. The subject of the sentence is the milk / cookies/ eggs/sport/ etc.
No, the correct translation is "to like." A eprson lieks eggs, for example. The eggs are not being pleasing to him.
Quote:The translation of "to hate" in the dictionary is (1)odiar, (2)aborrecer, (3)detestar
But we have cognates in English for all those words (1) odor (noun only) , (2) to abhor (verb), (3) to detest (verb)
We can't really use odor as a verb, But we have "odorous" and "malodorous" as seldom used adjectives.
"Odiar," has no relation to "odor." None. The word for "odor" in Spanish is "olor." A pleasing odor can be called "aroma," and an unpleasant one "hedor." But "odiar," means "to hate."
Quote:I am also unclear how often "odiar' is used, as opposed to "no le gusta".
If you say "odio los huevos," you're purposefully exaggerating your dislike for eggs. I define hate as a very deep, passionate dislike of something or someone, usually some person or a group of people. It's a very serious term that shoulnd't be used lightly. You use hate, as directed to someone or something, when their very existence arouses your anger.
Quote: NareedNo, the correct translation is "to like." A eprson lieks eggs, for example. The eggs are not being pleasing to him.
"Odiar," has no relation to "odor." None. The word for "odor" in Spanish is "olor." A pleasing odor can be called "aroma," and an unpleasant one "hedor." But "odiar," means "to hate."
My apologies.
I was unclear on the first point. Syntactically, the order of the subject-verb-object construct would be "The eggs are pleasing to him". I know you wouldn't actually put that in a translation, but that is what you are saying grammatically. That why the subject of the sentence is "eggs" whereas the subject of the sentence is "I" in English.
I screwed up here, and misread something in the Latin. You are absolutely correct, "odor" is not a cognate of "odiar". "Odor" is a cognate of "olor".
Fecha: 25-04-12
Palabra: jugarreta
Today's SWD means "dirty trick." A clean trick, like a magic trick, would be a truco. The base word is jugar, which we all know means the verb play.
The question for the advanced readers is what does the "eta" suffix mean in Spanish? Somehow I think I may have asked this before. Too bad there are not dictionaries sorted from the end of the word to help answer such questions.
Ejemplo time.
Perdí la elección porque fue la víctima del comité de las jugarretas. = I lost the election because I was the victim of the dirty-trick committee.
Trivia time.
Who am I referring to with the above example?
Quote: WizardThe question for the advanced readers is what does the "eta" suffix mean in Spanish? Somehow I think I may have asked this before. Too bad there are not dictionaries sorted from the end of the word to help answer such questions.
Wiktionary does suffixes but in all the languages at once.
Suffixes -eta (female) and -ete (male) are both diminutives in Spanish (along with many other suffixes). This suffix is borrowed from French. So literally the word means "little play".
Quote: Wizard
Ejemplo time.
Perdí la elección porque fue la víctima del comité de las jugarretas. = I lost the election because I was the victim of the dirty-trick committee.
Wow, I have no clue about this trivia. But I will give a hand about spanish, as paco said this sufix is used to identify the diminutive in sentences, but not the regular diminutive as with the sufixes ito and ita. Its use is more common in a context of afection, where the agent of the narration has direct touch with the story. Sometimes it's not very easy to realize the difference.
Regarding the construction of your phrase, Mike, I would let the article "las"out of the sentence, formulating the phrase like this:
Perdí la elección porque fue la víctima del Comité de Jugarretas - mainly because it's a given comité, not any comité.
Quote: WizardWhen I first saw a sentence like Me gusta los huevos I thought it was saying "the eggs like me." My tutor said the same thing Paco did, that for purposes of sentence construction gustar means "is pleasing to."
I just don't see it like that. I mean it as a native speaker. If I wanted to say the eggs are pleasing to me, I'd say "los huevos me son agradables," or "... me son palcenteros." I would not say "me gustan los huevos."
Quote:However, in English people say "like" about 100 as often as "pleasing" so "I like eggs" makes for a translation that is conveys the same message and is how people usually talk.
Well, the egg debacle aside, that is how a trasnaltion is supposed to be done.
Quote:Today's SWD means "dirty trick." A clean trick, like a magic trick, would be a truco.
Yes, but a dirty trick can be called "un truco sucio" as well.
Quote:Perdí la elección porque fue la víctima del comité de las jugarretas. = I lost the election because I was the victim of the dirty-trick committee.
"..porque fuÍ victima...."
Techincally you're correct in the rest, but in this case I would go with "el comité de trucos sucios." It sounds more serious, more adult, to say it that way.
Quote:Trivia time.
Who am I referring to with the above example?
The Brain, when he ran with Admiral Pinky as runing mate?
No, wait. He just looked like The Brain ;)
I won't spoil the answer, but I will give an important hint: "H."
activities included "dirty tricks" such as bugging the offices of political opponents
and people of whom Nixon or his officials were suspicious.
Nixon and his close aides ordered harassment of activist groups and political figures,
using the FBI, CIA, and the Internal Revenue Service.
Don't peek unless you're trying to confirm your answer.
wallace, mcgovern, humphrey were victims in the nixon era.
then there was lee atwater during the reagan/bush years
and his victims ferraro, dukakis, tom foley, clinton
the most recent master being karl rove and his victims:
clinton, perot, gore, mccain, kerry.
tough to say to whom the wizard is referring.
is it an actual quote?
Quote: NareedWell, the egg debacle aside, that is how a trasnaltion is supposed to be done.
Perhaps "translation" is a poor word. The problem any beginning Spanish student faces with this very common verb, is that it is spoken in the third person, instead of the first person. In English
I like eggs - first person
He likes eggs - third person.
So the English speaker is surprised to find that he is using the 3rd person of the Spanish verb "gustar", even when he is trying to say "I like eggs" in Spanish.
The explanation given to every beginning Spanish student is the construct of the Spanish sentence is closer to "The eggs please me".
Because you are a native speaker, you are not even conscious of using the 3rd person. You learned it as a child by mimicry.
-------------------
It is very popular to teach the song, Yo Me Llamo Paco , to little kids so they can tell a Spanish speaker their name.
The translation of the phrase would be "My name is Paco", but syntactically it is "I myself am called Paco". The RAE dictionary calls this a pronomial (abbrev. prnl) version of the verb, but it is usually taught as a reflexive verb. While English has words that specifically indicate "reflexive", the concept is far more important in Spanish.
Quote: WizardTrivia time. Who am I referring to with the above example?
The phrase has been used for over 3 centuries. Possibly Vladimir Putin because delishki is the Russian equivalent, and is translated as "dirty tricks" into English.
Quote: William SafireFirst use of the English phrase was inscribed in the papers of Arthur Capel, earl of Essex, who wrote in 1670, “To me he called it a dirty trick.” Thirteen years later, the earl was found with his throat cut in the Tower of London, more dirty deed than dirty trick. The phrase entered the political vocabulary with a vengeance during the Watergate scandal as a phrase that once was equated with “pranks,” “hardball” and “borderline slander”; in 1973, it gained a more sinister meaning of “surreptitious disruption of an opponent’s campaign.”
Joe Cummins, author of “Anything for a Vote: dirty trick, Cheap Shots and October Surprises in U.S. Presidential Campaigns,” notes that it was George Washington, while commanding general of the American revolutionary forces, who wrote of a British peace proposal, “They are practicing such low and dirty trick, that Men of Sentiment and honor must blush at their Villainy.” In 1828, The United States Telegraph, a newspaper supporting President Andrew Jackson, despite vilification in his re-election campaign for having married Rachel Robards before her divorce was complete, denounced its rival’s coverage with “The Intelligencer at its dirty trick again!” (Cummins credits Ben Zimmer, an editor at the Oxford University Press, for this research; Zimmer is a source of mine on phrasedickery too.)
The two collocated words remain a fixture in political journalism: in a recent review of “How to Rig an Election,” by Allen Raymond, who served several months in prison for flooding a New Hampshire senatorial campaign’s telephone lines with computer-generated calls, The Washington Post’s headline was “Dirty Tricks Without Illusions.”
Seemingly bottomed on its association with covert intelligence, the phrase may have had its real genesis in the U.S. Navy. In its Nov. 20, 1944, issue, Time magazine reported a surprise predawn raid on Japanese land-based air power on the island of Luzon, decided upon by “Admiral ‘Bull’ Halsey’s staff, the self-styled ‘Dirty Tricks Department.’ ” Time’s headline: “The Dirty Tricksters.” In a 1967 article about Richard Helms, then the new director of Central Intelligence, Time made the linguistic jump to spookdom: “When he surfaced in 1952, it was as deputy to the chief of the plans division, the so-called ‘dirty tricks’ department, which handles espionage and other undercover operations.”
NY Times
I think Nareed has the answer that the Wizard was thinking of.
Quote: NareedThe answer is:
H. Ross Perot
Don't peek unless you're trying to confirm your answer.
Quote: pacomartinI think Nareed has the answer that the Wizard was thinking of.
I'm 100.76% certain of it :)
Come on. My reply is full of hints, including "H."
Quote: DocCome on, yourself. "H." could be a reference to Hubert.
Let's recap:
Looks like The Brain (from the cartoon Pinky & The Brain)
Admiral
"H."
What more do you need? It wasn't even 21 years ago.
Yes, Nareed was right. Political dirty tricks are nothing unusual, but H. Ross Perot specifically mentioned the phrase as the reason he dropped out of the 1992 presidential race. Specifically, he said the GOP tried to ruin his daughter's wedding by spreading a rumor she was a lesbian or something like that. Lest anyone asks, he rejoined the race later.
Quote: NareedIt wasn't even 21 years ago.
You have a good memory of American politics. How many people on this forum know that the Mexican presidential election is less than 10 weeks ago, let alone the names of the candidates (or the political parties).
Quote: WizardWe all seem to agree on what gustar really means, so I move to drop it.
Second.
Quote:Yes, Nareed was right. Political dirty tricks are nothing unusual, but H. Ross Perot specifically mentioned the phrase as the reason he dropped out of the 1992 presidential race. Specifically, he said the GOP tried to ruin his daughter's wedding by spreading a rumor she was a lesbian or something like that. Lest anyone asks, he rejoined the race later.
And I didn't even get to say "giant sucking sound" as a hint ;)
I used to watch WB's "Animaniacs" from time to time. The first time I saw a Pinky and The Brain cartoon, when it was part of that show, I thought it was a Ross Perot satire specifically, because Brain was running for president in his nightly plan to take over the world. His running amte was Pinky, posing as "Admiral Pinky." Naturally that segment was satire, but I think the characters predated Perot's run.
Quote: pacomartinYou have a good memory of American politics.
So so.
I had a lot of fun in 1992 making taglines on a BBS featuring unlilely presidential tickets, mostly mixed with Trek characters or with such characters alone.
Quote:How many people on this forum know that the Mexican presidential election is less than 10 weeks ago, let alone the names of the candidates (or the political parties).
1) you forgot Josefina Vazquez Mota
2) can I borrow your time machine? ;)
I won't vote this year, becasue the electoral agency in its infinite wisdom assigned me to a voting station 32 kilometers away. But if I did vote, I'd probably hold my nose and vote for Peña Nieto against Lopez Obrador.
Quote: NareedBut if I did vote, I'd probably hold my nose and vote for Peña Nieto against Lopez Obrador.
So you have the grandson against the workshop. I'd vote for the grandson.
I wonder if the elections will go smoothly this year. Do you think people will disagree with the outcome?
Quote: WizardSo you have the grandson against the workshop.
Look up "Peña"
"Obrador" is also a word for slaughterhouse. That's more apt, considering the candidate. He's the man who blocked Reforma avenue for months six years ago to throw a tantrum.
Quote:I'd vote for the grandson.
I wouldn't vote for him, but against the other guy.
In elections past I voted for the PAN candidates, Fox and Calderon. Since then I've given up expecting the "right-wing" party is any different in principle from the PRI.
Quote: pacomartinI wonder if the elections will go smoothly this year.
The electiosn went smoothly last time, too. They were just very close.
Quote:Do you think people will disagree with the outcome?
Yes. When the PRD and Obrador lose, they'll throw another tantrum.
If you listen to their rhetoric, they've really won 100% of all elections ever held. Any win by any other party is becasue of fraud of some kind.
Quote: WizardIt is my understanding that me (verb) means that I am the one the action is preformed on, not the one doing the action. If I were the one doing the action then it would be yo (verb). So, that is why Me gusta appears that I am the one being liked. To help clarify it, my tutor said to think of gustar as meaning "being pleasing." We all seem to agree on what gustar really means, so I move to drop it.
Before we drop it, it is true that me (verb) means that I am the one the action is preformed on.
But the grammatical constructs can be totally different. The first line of the examples below are superficially similar especially if translated into English. "I am called Paco" or "I like Mike"
me llamo Paco
nos llamamos "The Temptations"
se llaman "Gladys Knight and the Pips"
me gusta Mike
nos gusta Mike
les gusta Mike
Quote: pacomartinThe first line of the examples below are superficially similar especially if translated into English. "I am called Paco"
me llamo Paco
Literally, I would say that is "I call myself Paco." I know that is how you're supposed to say it, but if you're trying to say "I am called Paco" wouldn't it be Me llama Paco.?
Quote: WizardLiterally, I would say that is "I call myself Paco." I know that is how you're supposed to say it, but if you're trying to say "I am called Paco" wouldn't it be Me llama Paco.?
I'm not sure I understand, but "me llama Paco" means "Paco's calling me."
Quote: NareedI'm not sure I understand, but "me llama Paco" means "Paco's calling me."
I changed the conjugation to llama, because I was trying to say nobody in particular calls me Paco. My original point was that I was saying Me llamo Paco. is "I call myself Paco." If you must choose a subject, how would you literally say "They call me Paco."?
Quote: WizardIf you must choose a subject, how would you literally say "They call me Paco."?
"Me llamaN Paco."
Quote: Nareed"Me llamaN Paco."
Thanks, how about "He calls me Paco."
Quote: WizardThanks, how about "He calls me Paco."
You have a choice.
"Me llama Paco." "Llama" in this case is the third person conjugation and is indistinct regarding gender.
If you want to be more specific, you'd say "El me llama Paco."
Quote: NareedYou have a choice.
"Me llama Paco." "Llama" in this case is the third person conjugation and is indistinct regarding gender.
Quote: NareedI'm not sure I understand, but "me llama Paco" means "Paco's calling me."
So, how do you know whether Me llama Paco refers to "He calls me Paco" or "Paco's calling me."
Quote: WizardSo, how do you know whether Me llama Paco refers to "He calls me Paco" or "Paco's calling me."
Right. Sorry. It's a bit general and you'd have to determine meaning by context. But in both cases third person is being used.
So, let's review:
"me llama Paco" can mean "Paco's caling me," or "he/she calls me Paco." Now, if I wanted to tell you Paco's calling you on the phone, I'd say "te llama Paco," that doesn't mean "he calls you Paco." I mean, literally it can, but it's seldom used that way.
Quote: Nareed"me llama Paco" can mean "Paco's caling me," or "he/she calls me Paco." Now, if I wanted to tell you Paco's calling you on the phone, I'd say "te llama Paco,"
But in third person, there is a different pronoun which removes the ambiguity (except for gender)
se llama Paco = "He calls himself Paco" or "She calls herself Paco" (if the name were ambiguous)
le llama Paco = "Paco's calling him/her"
As a good exercise, Wizard, try translating the following sentence with the pronoun "it", the adjective "obvious", and the infinitive "raining".
It is obvious that it is raining.
Nareed will correct you if you make a mistake.
Quote: pacoAs a good exercise, Wizard, try translating the following sentence ... It is obvious that it is raining.
Hay obvio que está lloviendo.
I have my doubts about the hay, a form of ser. It obviously isn't permanently obvious. However, it doesn't feel right to use está twice in the same sentence. It also seems like lots of sentences begin with hay. So, I'm going more on feel than logic on this one. Now, watch me get that right, and blow something I took for granted.
Fecha: 4-26-12
Palabra: Arriesgar
Today's SWD is appropriate for a site about gambling. It means to risk. A related word is riesgo, which means a risk (noun). This word was used in some articles Paco suggested I go over with my Peruvian tutor in this post.
The advanced readers can take the day off from their extra credit question, and focus their energy on the MegaMillions' rel='nofollow' target='_blank'>https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/questions-and-answers/math/9578-lottery-jackpot-sharing-parardox/#post141782]MegaMillions paradox thread.
Ejemplo time.
Voy a arriesgar mi dinero en la lotería, porque predecí sólo 3,7 ganadores. = I'm going to risk my money on the lottery because I predict only 3.7 winners.
Quote: WizardHay obvio que está lloviendo.
I have my doubts about the hay, a form of ser. It obviously isn't permanently obvious. However, it doesn't feel right to use está twice in the same sentence. It also seems like lots of sentences begin with hay. So, I'm going more on feel than logic on this one. Now, watch me get that right, and blow something I took for granted.
Actually "hay" is a conjugation of "haber", and it mean "there is" not "it is".
But I was also trying to tie up the list of pronouns we have been going through. Nareed pointed out that the reflexive and indirect object pronouns are the same in 1st and 2nd person, so there is some ambiguity about the meaning of the sentence. It must be inferred by context. I added that in the 3rd person there are different pronouns so there is no ambiguity.
But while it is very common to start a sentence with "it is" in English, there is no commonly used pronoun for "it" (as a subject) in Spanish .
Quote: WizardHay obvio que está lloviendo.
ES obvio....
Quote:I have my doubts about the hay, a form of ser.
See what Paco wrote.
Quote:Voy a arriesgar mi dinero en la lotería, porque predecí sólo 3,7 ganadores. = I'm going to risk my money on the lottery because I predict only 3.7 winners.
"...porque PREDIJE solo 3.7..."
I'll give you a pass on the conjugation, but please, please, please, do not adopt the very annoying habit of using a comma for a decimal point.
Sorry for the delay. Estuve fuera de la ciudad todo el día.
Quote: NareedI'll give you a pass on the conjugation, but please, please, please, do not adopt the very annoying habit of using a comma for a decimal point.
Hmmm. I thought you were supposed to do that in certain countries. I'm pretty sure I saw that in Argentina lots of times. Germany too. However, I think Panama used the period.
Quote: WizardHmmm. I thought you were supposed to do that in certain countries.
Yes, in certain countries. Including Spain. Not in Mexico, and not in the US. I learned in preschool that it's a decimal POINT, not a decimal comma.
I admit that I didn't write this. You can do it piecemeal over a few days. But it is about translating the humble word it into Spanish
- Where is the telephone? It is here.
- It is broken.
- Today I bought a laptop computer. It is very expensive. (hint: computadora portátil)
-
I don't like this song. It's full of resentment. (hint: rencorosa)
- It is raining.
- It is snowing.
- It is dangerous.
- It is very common to find vendors on the beach. (hint: encontrar vendedores en la playa)
-
It can happen. (hint: pasar)
- Did you see the car? I didn't see it.
- Did you see the shirt? I didn't see it. (hint: camisa)
- I don't like this hamburger, but I'm going to eat it.
- Antonio bought me a ring. Look at it! (hint: anillo)
-
Do you have the key? I don't have it. (hint: llave)
-
I saw something. Did you see it? (hint:algo)
-
Give it a hit with your hand. (hint: golpe)
- The car is broken. I need an axle for it. (hint: "roto" "un eje")
- I like my bicycle a lot. I can't live without it.
- The test was very difficult. Because of it, I didn't pass. (hint:aprobé)
-
There were many deaths before the civil war and during it. (hint: guerra civil )
- My girlfriend hates me. I don't want to talk about it.
- Don't worry about it.
Quote: WizardHmmm. I thought you were supposed to do that in certain countries. I'm pretty sure I saw that in Argentina lots of times. Germany too. However, I think Panama used the period.
I think it is standard in continental Europe, so presumably in the southern cone and possibly Brazil.
If the number is short enough, like 3,142 you can fail to recognize the most common of numbers.
Quote: pacomartinI admit that I didn't write this. You can do it piecemeal over a few days. But it is about translating the humble word it into Spanish
You don't translate "it" into Spanish, becaue there is no equivalent pronoun. You either use "el" or "ella" (or variations thereof) when apropriate, or you imply the pronoun with the verb when that's called for.
Quote: pacomartinI think it is standard in continental Europe, so presumably in the southern cone and possibly Brazil.
If the number is short enough, like 3,142 you can fail to recognize the most common of numbers.
And in some language the name sof days are capitalized, but in some countries with those languages they're not. In that case it makes no difference.
But calculators and computers use a decimal POINT, not a comma. So that's what the standard is, even if you can program excel to add 2,12 to 2.100.000.000.000.000.000,0000000000000000000000000000000009
To be honest, I'm not big on going through long lists of things to translate, even if I can break it up. That just isn't the fun way to learn Spanish. I'm okay with translating just one sentence at a time.
Fecha: 27-4-12
Palabra: Empapar
Today's SWD means to soak. The reflexive empaparse means to get soaked. A related word is mojar, which also means to get wet. I think the difference is empapar means to get really wet.
Ejemplo time.
Empapé al chapoteo Montaña Chapoteo a Disneyland. = I got soaked on the Splash Mountain at Disneyland.
My biggest area of doubt above is how to translate "ride," as in at an amusement park.
In other news, we've discussed how to say guinea pig in Spanish after I got back from Argentina. My tutor says in Peru the word is cuy. Add that to your lists.
Also, Gavin MacLoud is still on the bulletin board. I'm getting more tempted with each week.
Quote: WizardToday's SWD means to soak. The reflexive empaparse means to get soaked. A related word is mojar, which also means to get wet. I think the difference is empapar means to get really wet.
Well, consider the difference between saying "soaked" and "getting wet." It's the same thing.
Quote:Empapé al chapoteo Montaña Chapoteo a Disneyland. = I got soaked on the Splash Mountain at Disneyland.
"ME empapé en Splash Mountain en DisneylandIA." Disney land does ahve a Spanish translation, of sorts. the rides themselves don't.
Quote:My biggest area of doubt above is how to translate "ride," as in at an amusement park.
Usually they're referred to by name, but ommiting what theya re. So "the Space Mountain ride," is just "Space Mountain."
If you want to call them something in general, the word is "juegos." Example: "fuí a Disneylandia y me subí a los juegos." = "I went to Disneyland and got on the rides."
