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Nareed
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September 4th, 2011 at 8:31:49 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Es necesario a romper huevos para hacer una tortilla. = It is necessary to break eggs to make an omelet.



Since the common form of the cliche in English is "You can't make an omelet without braking some eggs," the proper Spanish translation should be "No puedes hacer un omelet sin romper unos huevos."

Yes, the Spanish word for omelet is omelet. Actually the word is French.

Quote:

I get tortilla for omelet from spanishdict.com. However, what I think of as a tortilla is the round thing made of corn or flour used for making tacos. Do people ever get confused?



No.

There is an egg-based dish in Spain called a tortilla. It's not an omelet, though. Outside of Spain, tortilla means a flat, circular piece of baked corn dough.
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Wizard
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September 4th, 2011 at 8:45:54 AM permalink
Quote: Nareed

There is an egg-based dish in Spain called a tortilla. It's not an omelet, though. Outside of Spain, tortilla means a flat, circular piece of baked corn dough.



Not only does spanishdict.com say tortilla=omelet, but the dictionary on my escritorio (desk) also. It isn't that I question what you're saying. I'm not sure what my question is. How about, do you find it annoying that resources on the Spanish language hold out Spanish Spanish as the correct form? What percentage of Spanish speakers actually live in Spain? I would estimate under 10%. I would find it annoying if sources on the English language held out English English as the correct form, and all others as in error.

Then again, my tutor always holds out the Real Academia Española as the final authority. She will never let me say things like pelo for the hair on your head, despite the fact that everyone here calls it that, because cabello is the proper word, according to her, and everyone else is just using sloppy Spanish.
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Nareed
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September 4th, 2011 at 9:03:44 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Not only does spanishdict.com say tortilla=omelet, but the dictionary at my escritorio (desk).



It's still wrong.

I'm sure if you ask for an omelet in Spain you'll have trouble. But then that happens with lots of words the Spaniards misuse. I'm less certain in the rest of Latin America.

Quote:

How about, do you find it annoying that resources on the Spanish language hold out Spanish Spanish as the correct form? What percentage of Spanish speakers actually live in Spain? I would estimate under 10%. I would find it annoying if sources on the English language held out English English as the correct form, and all others as in error.



If we go by numbers, the Mexican Spanish ought to be the standard, as it is the largest Spanish speaking country. If we don't go by numbers, you're stuck with Mexican Spanish anyway because that's the language I know.

Quote:

Then again, my tutor always holds out the Real Academia Española as the final authority. She will never let me say things like pelo for the hair on your head, despite the fact that everyone here calls it that, because cabello is the proper word, according to her, and everyone else is just using sloppy Spanish.



Some people are like that. There is no other "official" Spanish language authority. But then there is no "official" English language authority at all. A language fares better when there is no authority decreeing what is and isn't proper in that language. It frees up innovation in use and the adaptation of useful terms from other languages.

One big annoyance I have with Spaniard's use of Spanish is that they don't accept terms in other languages unless the Academy does, and when it does it often makes up a Hispanicized version. The world over a volt is a volt, but in Spain it's called a "voltio." Even worse, Spaniards often translate the given names of foreigners.

I'm curious what your Spanish dictionary says of the word "sandwich." I'm willing to bet 100:1 odds it gives the proper term as "emparedado," which is quite ridiculous.
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pacomartin
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September 4th, 2011 at 9:39:45 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Palabra del día: ROMPER

I like the sound of today's word. It sounds very French. It means to break. I would be interested to know what the root "romp" means. In English it means to play roughly and carelessly, perhaps breaking things in the process. It can also bean to have an easy and decisive victory, perhaps breaking the other team in the process, if not physically, then at least in spirit. Hopefully Paco can enlighten us on the etymology.



It looks like English speakers mostly used the verb break from Old Eenglish brecan "to break, shatter, burst; destroy" for most of the language's existence. Phrases like break up were in use from the late 15th century.

Spanish uses a conjugation of the verb romper to mean the same thing, as in Mariana y Catalina rompieron although the break up can be between two friends in Spanish, and not necessarily lovers.

Romp is a relatively recent word in English, from only the last 3 centuries. The specific meaning of "an easy and decisive victory" was first attested in only 1888. The English word romp probably came from the French word rampe which means to climb, but in the sense of animals climbing on top of you in a rampage.

The English idea of romp as frolic and play (especially children) as in romper room is very similar to the idea of rampaging animals. It seems to me it ultimately must be related to the same Latin word, but I cannot verify. As the word in English existed only recently and it's exact origin is uncertain. The French word "ramp" long ago came from the Latin word rumpere which also generated the Spanish verb. In Spanish it only seems to mean "to break" and "to break-up", with no sense of the idea of frolic.

----------------------------------------

A Tortilla Espanola is widely translated as Spanish omelette but what English speakers call an omelette is tortilla francesa. The Spanish dish has it's emphasis on the oil, the potatoes and onions and not on the eggs which are more of the binder. In Madrid you can buy a Tortilla Espanola to eat between slices of bread to fuel your late night partying in the city streets.
Wizard
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September 4th, 2011 at 11:20:39 AM permalink
Quote: Nareed

I'm curious what your Spanish dictionary says of the word "sandwich." I'm willing to bet 100:1 odds it gives the proper term as "emparedado," which is quite ridiculous.



You're right. It also says bocadillo is acceptable. This came up with my tutor once, and I think she said bocadillo, but I'm not sure. I'll ask her next time. Bueno Entonces uses sandwich, as I recall.



Quote: pacomartin

romp/romper



Good stuff there! You would make a good High School English teacher. You even look like a teacher, if I may say so.

Speaking of romper rooms, anyone else remember a show by that name back in the sixties and seventies? My younger brothers used to watch it.

Quote: pacomartin

A Tortilla Espanola is widely translated as Spanish omelette but what English speakers call an omelette is tortilla francesa. The Spanish dish has it's emphasis on the oil, the potatoes and onions and not on the eggs which are more of the binder. In Madrid you can buy a Tortilla Espanola to eat between slices of bread to fuel your late night partying in the city streets.



You're the man. So, if I want an American-style omelet in a Spanish-speaking country I ask for a tortilla francesa? I'm a bit surprised that the French would go a heavy egg-based food like an omelet. In all my travels, I've never known a country to like eggs nearly as much as the US.

When I was in Panama I ordered a breakfast of stuff I never heard of and think I got something like your tortilla española.
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Nareed
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September 4th, 2011 at 11:56:15 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

You're right. It also says bocadillo is acceptable. This came up with my tutor once, and I think she said bocadillo, but I'm not sure. I'll ask her next time. Bueno Entonces uses sandwich, as I recall.



That's odd. Bocadillo usually means something like hors d'oeuvres, appetizer, tapas (he he) or even a snack.

I forgot to mention I like to tel Spaniards "Ustedes hablan nuestro idioma de forma rara." Or "you speak our language funny."

Quote:

So, if I want an American-style omelet in a Spanish-speaking country I ask for a tortilla francesa?



In Mexico I'd advise you to request an omelet. It will even be listed as such on the menu.
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pacomartin
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September 4th, 2011 at 12:47:16 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

How about, do you find it annoying that resources on the Spanish language hold out Spanish Spanish as the correct form? What percentage of Spanish speakers actually live in Spain? I would estimate under 10%. I would find it annoying if sources on the English language held out English English as the correct form, and all others as in error.
Then again, my tutor always holds out the Real Academia Española as the final authority. She will never let me say things like pelo for the hair on your head, despite the fact that everyone here calls it that, because cabello is the proper word, according to her, and everyone else is just using sloppy Spanish.



Even the Oxford English dictionary considers itself to be descriptive and not proscriptive. Nearly every grammatical rule can be broken if enough people are doing it. I always found it amusing that double negatives are considered bad grammer, but they are used all the time by the most famous of English writers including Shakespeare.

Interestingly enough the RAE definition of tortilla says it is a fried and beaten eggs, in round or elongated form, and other ingredients. I always thought of it more as a potato dish with eggs added.

In Mexico, Central America, Puerto Rico, and Dominican Republic it is made on a hot griddle. In Northern Argentina, Bolivia and Chile a tortilla can be made with flour and baked in hot ashes.

In Mexico if you say "tortilla de harina" then you are talking about a flour tortilla. I think more gringos eat flour tortillas since they are not as messy.

tortilla.
(Del dim. de torta).
1. f. Fritada de huevo batido, en forma redonda o alargada, a la cual se añade a veces algún otro ingrediente.
2. f. Am. Cen., Méx., P. Rico y R. Dom. Alimento en forma circular y aplanada, para acompañar la comida, que se hace con masa de maíz hervido en agua con cal, y se cuece en comal. Es fundamental en la alimentación de estos países.
3. f. NO Arg., Bol. y Chile. Pequeña torta chata, por lo común salada, hecha con harina de trigo o maíz, y cocida al rescoldo.

tortilla de harina
1. f. Hond. y Méx. Torta circular y aplanada hecha con harina de trigo.

=========================================
Peninsular Spanish (Castilian) speakers are roughly 10% of the native speakers of Spanish.

In a broad sense, American Spanish pronunciation can be grouped in five sets of variants.

The first group, the Caribbean, is spoken in Cuba, Dominican Republic, Puerto Rico, Panamá, the Colombian Caribbean, much of Venezuela, and the Caribbean parts of Nicaragua and Mexico.

The second one is the South American Pacific , which comprises Perú, Chile and Guayaquil, Ecuador.

The third is the Central American , spoken in El Salvador, Honduras and Nicaragua.

The fourth is the Argentine-Uruguayan-Paraguayan variant , which probably includes Eastern Bolivia (Santa Cruz, Beni, Pando).

The fifth, which probably is not a group but a cluster of places that resisted changes in the pronunciation of the s sound at the end of a syllable, has been called the Highland American Spanish , and is spoken in Mexico, Guatemala, Costa Rica, Andean Colombia, Andean Venezuela, Quito, the Peruvian Sierra and Bolivia (except in Santa Cruz, Beni, and Pando).


Spanish in the Philippines is a combination of Mexican and Castilian Spanish.

Even the relatively small country of Argentina speaks 6 different dialects of spanish.
pacomartin
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September 4th, 2011 at 1:13:30 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

You're right. It also says bocadillo is acceptable. This came up with my tutor once, and I think she said bocadillo, but I'm not sure. I'll ask her next time. Bueno Entonces uses sandwich, as I recall.





Good stuff there! You would make a good High School English teacher. You even look like a teacher, if I may say so.

Speaking of romper rooms, anyone else remember a show by that name back in the sixties and seventies? My younger brothers used to watch it.

Quote: pacomartin

A Tortilla Espanola is widely translated as Spanish omelette but what English speakers call an omelette is tortilla francesa. The Spanish dish has it's emphasis on the oil, the potatoes and onions and not on the eggs which are more of the binder. In Madrid you can buy a Tortilla Espanola to eat between slices of bread to fuel your late night partying in the city streets.



You're the man. So, if I want an American-style omelet in a Spanish-speaking country I ask for a tortilla francesa? I'm a bit surprised that the French would go a heavy egg-based food like an omelet. In all my travels, I've never known a country to like eggs nearly as much as the US.

When I was in Panama I ordered a breakfast of stuff I never heard of and think I got something like your tortilla española.




VIPs which is a popular chain in Mexico similar to Denny's, they use the term omelette to mean an American style omelette. Of course, it is very likely to be on a bed of refried beans. They don't seem to offer Tortilla Espanola . I can't remember where I would order it in Mexico.

Some people are surprised to find that the Oldest restaurant in the world is not French, but Spanish. It's outside the Plaza Mayor in Madrid.



If you follow the Camino de la Lengua you will pass within 1/2 miles of my Grandfather's birthplace.


Barcelona in Las Vegas has Tortilla Espanola for $5 on it's hot tapas menu. They also have Patatas Bravas.
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September 4th, 2011 at 1:17:05 PM permalink
Hasta la vista, 98steps. Se ha derribado su poste. "Spanish Word of the Day" es numero uno!
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Nareed
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September 4th, 2011 at 1:32:40 PM permalink
Quote: pacomartin

VIPs which is a popular chain in Mexico similar to Denny's, they use the term omelette to mean an American style omelette. Of course, it is very likely to be on a bed of refried beans.



You should look at the menu on the site you linked to. Not a bean to be seen among the omelets.
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