Spanish word of the day
March 14th, 2012 at 4:37:45 PM
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Quote: NareedTrivia, the company WalMart bought out, which owned several supermarkets and restaurants in Mexico, was called "Grupo Cifra." No, I don't know why they used that name.
Mexico’s Jeronimo Arango and his two brothers, are normally listed as three of Mexico's billionaires by Forbes. The editor of the list talks abou Finding Mexico's Missing Billionaires.
Jeronimo Arango is not a flashy billionaire, and lives quietly in Los Angeles.
March 14th, 2012 at 4:44:42 PM
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Quote: pacomartinMexico’s Jeronimo Arango and his two brothers, are normally listed as three of Mexico's billionaires by Forbes. The editor of the list talks abou Finding Mexico's Missing Billionaires.
You neglect to mention he and his brothers owned Cifra.
Is he related to Pancho Villa? His real name was Doroteo Arango.
I forget whether I kept a Cifra credit card intact or not. it doesn't seem likely...
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
March 14th, 2012 at 5:22:05 PM
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Quote: NareedYou neglect to mention he and his brothers owned Cifra.
Is he related to Pancho Villa? His real name was Doroteo Arango.
José Doroteo Arango Arámbula (Pancho Villa) died only 4 years before Doroteo Arango (future owner of CIFRA) was born. I assume he was not related, but he was given the name because of the respect that Pancho Villa had among Northern Mexicans.
March 14th, 2012 at 5:30:43 PM
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Quote: pacomartinJosé Doroteo Arango Arámbula (Pancho Villa) died only 4 years before Doroteo Arango (future owner of CIFRA) was born. I assume he was not related, but he was given the name because of the respect that Pancho Villa had among Northern Mexicans.
First names are given for any reason. Family names are strictly inherited from both parents. So if his family name is Arango, he's potentially related to Pancho Villa. But then there are some common names. In Nuevo Leon an awful lot of people carry the surname "Garza." Elsewhere in the north, Arango might be a common name.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
March 14th, 2012 at 7:44:13 PM
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Quote: NareedFirst names are given for any reason. Family names are strictly inherited from both parents.
One of the most famous bits in television history in the 1950's had to do with a contestant on You Bet Your Life named Ramiro Gonzales Gonzales who was a Mexican American from San Antonio, Texas. Since very few Americans knew the Spanish custom of taking last names from both your parents, they think it is very funny that he had the same last name twice. It's clear that Ramiro is a natural comedian you should see the segment on You Bet Your Life (12 Feb 1953). John Wayne saw this episode and thought it was so funny that he cast Ramiro in several of his movies. His grandson (Clifton Gonzales Webb) is a television star today.
RGG was completely illiterate. His wife coached him through his scripts.
March 15th, 2012 at 8:06:37 AM
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Sorry to change the topic, but it is a new day.
Fecha: 15 de Marzo, 2012
Palabra: Saldar
Today's SWD doesn't have a direct English equivalent. My best explanation is that it means to settle, sell off, clear, result in etc.. Here is the sentence where I encountered it, Así que si me presento para tesorero es casi seguro que saldré elegido. I would translate that as "So if I run for treasurer, it is almost certain that it will pay off in being elected."
However, that doesn't relieve me from doing my own example.
Ejemplo time.
El baile saldado en fracaso. Nadie habría bailado conmigo. = The dance resulted in failure. Nobody would dance with me.
Fecha: 15 de Marzo, 2012
Palabra: Saldar
Today's SWD doesn't have a direct English equivalent. My best explanation is that it means to settle, sell off, clear, result in etc.. Here is the sentence where I encountered it, Así que si me presento para tesorero es casi seguro que saldré elegido. I would translate that as "So if I run for treasurer, it is almost certain that it will pay off in being elected."
However, that doesn't relieve me from doing my own example.
Ejemplo time.
El baile saldado en fracaso. Nadie habría bailado conmigo. = The dance resulted in failure. Nobody would dance with me.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
March 15th, 2012 at 8:27:58 AM
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Quote: WizardPalabra: Saldar
Today's SWD doesn't have a direct English equivalent. My best explanation is that it means to settle, sell off, clear, result in etc.. Here is the sentence where I encountered it, Así que si me presento para tesorero es casi seguro que saldré elegido. I would translate that as "So if I run for treasurer, it is almost certain that it will pay off in being elected."
Let's start near the end. "Saldré" is the future tense of the verb "salir." So the man is saying "So if I run for treasurer it's almost certain I'll wind up being elected." Now let's back up. "Salir" means "to exit," "to leave" "to turn up" (in some cases), "to come out". A related noun is "salida" = "exit." Suppose we're playing craps and I can't see the dice from where I'm standing. I might ask you "¿Viste que número salió?" meaning "Did you see what number turned up?"
Funny thing is "saldar" si also a word, but with a very different meaning. It's related to the noun "saldo" meaning "balance" as in the balance of a financial statement (And only in that sense. It does not mean a balance scale, equilibrium, or any other kind of balance). Ok? When you settle a debt, for example, by paying the full balance owed, you can say "He saldado la deuda" = "I've settled the debt." This verb has an implicit finality. You've paid what you owed and the debt is done. If you pay less than the full amount owed, then you didn't settle it.
This verb isn't used often.
Quote:El baile saldado en fracaso. Nadie habría bailado conmigo. = The dance resulted in failure. Nobody would dance with me.
Close, even so, which is nothing short of remarkable. But the phrasing is very awkward. I can't really come up with a good correction suing the word you chose. It's just hard to use "salir" along the line of "reult" in the tense you're using (whetever tense that is). So:
"El baile ha sido un fracaso."
That's about the best I can do. As a counter-example I proppose the following:
"Tenía muchas esperanzas de salir de vacaciones pero todo el viaje salió mal." = "I had high hopes for going out on vacation but the whole trip turned up badly."
BTW, the Spanish word for "balance" is <drumroll> "Balance," of course with Spanish pronunciation. For once it means almost the same thing in Spanish as it does in English.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
March 15th, 2012 at 9:21:38 AM
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Quote: Nareed
Let's start near the end. "Saldré" is the future tense of the verb "salir." So the man is saying "So if I run for treasurer it's almost certain I'll wind up being elected."
Funny thing is "saldar" is also a word, but with a very different meaning. It's related to the noun "saldo" meaning "balance" as in the balance of a financial statement (And only in that sense. It does not mean a balance scale, equilibrium, or any other kind of balance). Ok? When you settle a debt, for example, by paying the full balance owed, you can say "He saldado la deuda" = "I've settled the debt." This verb has an implicit finality. You've paid what you owed and the debt is done. If you pay less than the full amount owed, then you didn't settle it.
This verb isn't used often.
BTW, the Spanish word for "balance" is <drumroll> "Balance," of course with Spanish pronunciation. For once it means almost the same thing in Spanish as it does in English.
Good word Wizard. Very confusing since the verb salir has an irregular stem change in the future so that it looks like a different verb.
saldré - future tense of salir
saldaré - future tense of saldar
We have had a few words in the past, that came to Spanish indirectly from another Romance language.
One such word is saldo which is from Italian, and is recognized in many places in Europe (including Finland and Estonia) as a banking term.
Another such word is balance which came from Old French into French, Spanish and English without any spelling changes. So it is spelled the same in all three languages, but pronounced differently in each one.
Nareed will have to correct me if I am wrong, but from the dictionary definition, Spanish uses balance in the sense of balancing books, balancing on a trapeze, balancing a ship, and balancing options in business. Spanish does not use the word in the English sense of a balanced diet or a balanced lifestyle (where balance is a synonym for equilibrium).
March 15th, 2012 at 10:23:21 AM
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Thanks. I indeed got confused between salir y saldar. For what it is worth SpanishDict.com has an example not having to do with debt: "la pelea se saldó con once heridos -> eleven people were injured in the brawl"
Could one also use salir in the above sentence?
Could one also use salir in the above sentence?
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
March 15th, 2012 at 10:32:33 AM
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Quote: WizardThanks. I indeed got confused between salir y saldar. For what it is worth SpanishDict.com has an example not having to do with debt: "la pelea se saldó con once heridos -> eleven people were injured in the brawl"
Could one also use salir in the above sentence?
Yes. But again phrasing is important. I'd say "Once salieron heridos de la pelea."
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
March 15th, 2012 at 10:57:25 AM
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Quote: WizardFor what it is worth SpanishDict.com has an example not having to do with debt: "la pelea se saldó con once heridos -> eleven people were injured in the brawl"
The DRAE definition has other definitions.
The first definition one reads more like the profit or loss on an account. The second sounds like a legal definition. The 3rd and 4th definition sounds more like English "sale". The 5th is the settlement of you debt.
Actually none of these definitions are equivalent to the English word "solid".
saldo. (Del it. saldo, y este del lat. solĭdus, sólido).
1. m. Cantidad positiva o negativa que resulta de una cuenta.
2. m. Resultado final favorable o desfavorable, al dar por terminado un asunto.
3. m. Resto de mercancías que el fabricante o el comerciante venden a bajo precio para despacharlas pronto.
4. m. Venta de mercancías a bajo precio. Mañana empiezan los saldos.
5. m. p. us. Pago o finiquito de deuda u obligación.
Question for Nareed. How would you refer to a "balanced diet"? Would it be "alimentación equilibrada" or "dieta balanceada"?
March 15th, 2012 at 11:15:43 AM
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Quote: pacomartinNareed will have to correct me if I am wrong, but from the dictionary definition, Spanish uses balance in the sense of balancing books, balancing on a trapeze, balancing a ship, and balancing options in business. Spanish does not use the word in the English sense of a balanced diet or a balanced lifestyle (where balance is a synonym for equilibrium).
You are wrong. "Balance" does apply to equilibrium. "Saldo" does not. To your other question, it's "dieta balanceada."
What is a balanced lifestyle anyway?
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
March 16th, 2012 at 4:12:39 AM
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Sorry to change the topic again, but it is a new day.
Fecha: 16 de Marzo, 2012
Palabra: chupa-chup
Today's SWD means lollipop. Some sources don't hyphenate it. Other related forms of candy are chupete y pirulí, for which I trust Paco can produce pictures to show us the difference between them and a chupa-chup.
A question for the advanced readers is what is the etymology, or story behind, the chupa-chup.
Ejemplo time.
¿Cuantos lames se necesitan para llegar al centro de un chupa-chup? = How many licks does it take to get to the center of a lollipop?
Fecha: 16 de Marzo, 2012
Palabra: chupa-chup
Today's SWD means lollipop. Some sources don't hyphenate it. Other related forms of candy are chupete y pirulí, for which I trust Paco can produce pictures to show us the difference between them and a chupa-chup.
A question for the advanced readers is what is the etymology, or story behind, the chupa-chup.
Ejemplo time.
¿Cuantos lames se necesitan para llegar al centro de un chupa-chup? = How many licks does it take to get to the center of a lollipop?
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
March 16th, 2012 at 6:02:48 AM
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I'm certainly not advanced at all in Spanish, but my silly guess would be that "chupa-chup" represents the sound of slurping on a sucker.Quote: WizardA question for the advanced readers is what is the etymology, or story behind, the chupa-chup.
March 16th, 2012 at 6:09:36 AM
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Not sure which came first, the word or the brand...perhaps it is akin to the use of "kleenex" for a tissue?
Or "xerox" for a photocopy?
CHUPA CHUPS
Or "xerox" for a photocopy?
CHUPA CHUPS
In a bet, there is a fool and a thief.
- Proverb.
March 16th, 2012 at 7:07:16 AM
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Quote: WongBo
Quote: from WongBo's linkThe name of the brand comes from the Spanish verb chupar, meaning "to suck".
I still vote that the word is based on the sound -- "chup, chup, chup, chup ...." ;-)
March 16th, 2012 at 7:28:51 AM
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Quote: WizardSorry to change the topic again, but it is a new day.
Is that why the Sun keeps coming up? ;)
Quote:Today's SWD means lollipop.
I'm 101% sure it's a brand name for a lollipop, ratehr than the wrod for lollipop itself. It may have substituted the word, as was noted happened with Kleenex, not to mention Coke, but it's not a word as such. Further, if it has become the term for lollipop, it hasn't done so in Mexico. it strikes me as a South american term, too.
The actual word for lollipop is "paleta." That's also the word for a popsicle and any kind of small paddle. More specifically, if you like, you can say "paleta de caramelo." Despite simialrities to an English word, "caramelo" means bot "candy" and "caramel." A popsicle would be "paleta helada." Ice cream on a stick is "paleta de helado."
Quote:Other related forms of candy are chupete y pirulí,
"Chupete" is a South American word. I think it also means pacifier. "Pirulí" is a kind of candy on a stick. it's shaped like a cone and usually has several different colors. it can be regular hard candy like a lollipop, or a kind of softer, gooey candy.
Quote:¿Cuantos lames se necesitan para llegar al centro de un chupa-chup? = How many licks does it take to get to the center of a lollipop?
¿Cuantos lamidos....?"
"Lames" means "you lick;" "lamido" means "lick," "lamidos" means "licks"
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
March 16th, 2012 at 8:00:58 AM
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The source where I found chupa-chup used it as a translation of lollipop.
The sun doesn't come up. I'd prefer, "Is that why the earth keeps rotating?"
I struggled with the word for the noun lick. There was some other verb/noun pair I used as an example, but can't remember which. I wish there were one simple rule for turning a verb into a noun in Spanish.
Quote: NareedIs that why the Sun keeps coming up? ;)
The sun doesn't come up. I'd prefer, "Is that why the earth keeps rotating?"
Quote:¿Cuantos lamidos....?"
"Lames" means "you lick;" "lamido" means "lick," "lamidos" means "licks"
I struggled with the word for the noun lick. There was some other verb/noun pair I used as an example, but can't remember which. I wish there were one simple rule for turning a verb into a noun in Spanish.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
March 16th, 2012 at 8:29:49 AM
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Quote: WizardI wish there were one simple rule for turning a verb into a noun in Spanish.
The rules for converting verbs into nouns in English are not simple either. For example, look at this English as a Second Language quiz. How would you explain the "rules" in English to a non-native speaker.
Put a noun in the empty space, based on the verb in parenthesis
His ___ to understand the problem surprised me. (fail)
His ___ to do the work irked the boss. (refuse)
They do not have free ___ . (deliver)
The ___ was widely reported on TV. (rob)
Don't do it without any ___ . (prepare)
The manager decided to send in his ___ yesterday. (resign)
Nobody likes to work under ___ . (press)
He considered my ___ unfair. (decide)
Do you know what caused his ___ ? (dismiss)
His ___ caused us a lot of trouble. (omit)
When is his ___ with the doctor? (appoint)
It was not our ___ to hurt your feelings. (intend)
The ___ in this room is very old-fashioned. (furnish)
Don't listen to him. He is a ___ . (lie)
Their ___ for power lasted a long time. (struggle)
============
In the last example, you use the exact same word.
March 16th, 2012 at 8:41:33 AM
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Quote: WizardThe source where I found chupa-chup used it as a translation of lollipop.
I believe you. But I've still enver heard one person say "chupa chup" when referring to a lollipop. And it si a brand name. In Mexico lots of things are refered to by a brand name. Kleenex, for example. Refrigerated trucks are called "Thermo Kings," even if the refrigeration unit is Carrier or some other brand. Powdered chicken broth is called Knorr Suiza, too. But a lollipop is a paleta.
Quote:I struggled with the word for the noun lick. There was some other verb/noun pair I used as an example, but can't remember which. I wish there were one simple rule for turning a verb into a noun in Spanish.
Sorry. Like all other skills, languages need to be practiced.
How about this: I'm going to be in Vegas several days (for practical purposes from may 7th to the 17th), and I won't be sightseeing or gambling every minute of the day. if you like we can conduct a few sessions, say a couple of hours each, or maybe more, and I'll do my best to answer your questions. We can conduct the whole thing in Spanish, too, which ought to help. I'll even set a very reasonable rate. We can settle the details by PM. We can easily squeeze in 5 such sessions, depending on your schedule.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
March 16th, 2012 at 8:47:45 AM
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Quote: pacomartinThe rules for converting verbs into nouns in English are not simple either. For example, look at this English as a Second Language quiz. How would you explain the "rules" in English to a non-native speaker.
No idea how you'd explain, but it looks easy as pie to me. For the record:
Failure
Refusal
Delivery
Robbery
Preparation
Resignation
Pressure
Decision
Dismisal
Omission
Appointment
Intention
Furniture
Liar
Struggle
How did I do it? I just did. That is, I knew the words to use. Whether I memorized them through practice or learned to relate the nouns to the verbs, well, how can I know? I do know in my lessons we never covered any sort of rule for ontaining the noun from a verb, or a verb from a noun. So I suppose I just memorized things through use and practice. My teacher did correct me often, the way I correct the Wizard here.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
March 16th, 2012 at 9:09:56 AM
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I have hijacked the Casino Chip of the Day thread into SWD II. I hope the advanced readers here can pay a visit.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
March 16th, 2012 at 11:37:37 AM
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Quote: NareedNo idea how you'd explain, but it looks easy as pie to me.
Well, Latin based verbs that are concerned with mental state or state of affairs were turned into nouns in a similar manner, both adopted into Spanish and English the same way.
Preparation-preparación
Resignation-resignación
Intention-intención
Decision-decisión
Omission-omisión
In English sometimes the Old French suffix "-ure" is used, so you have differences in Spanish. In some cases the root verb is different.
fracasar - "to fail" - failure-fracaso
amueblar - "to furnish" - furniture - muebles
presionar - "to press" - pressure - presión
As this last example diverges between English and Spanish as to which suffix to use. I would expect it would be a natural mistake for a native language Spanish speaker.
In any case, there are at least a half a dozen different ways in English to turn a verb into a noun. It's probably more inconsistent than Spanish.
Quote: NareedHow did I do it? I just did. That is, I knew the words to use. So I suppose I just memorized things through use and practice. My teacher did correct me often, the way I correct the Wizard here.
Conjugation of a weak English verb is very simple since there are only three endings to learn.
I walk, he walks, I walked yesterday, I have walked 20 miles , I am walking
I deal, he deals, I dealt yesterday, I have dealt cards before , I am dealing
The only difference between the first and the second is for ease of pronunciation you use "t" instead of "ed".
But there are over a 300 irregular verbs in English, most based on an ancient Germanic system of 7 different types of "off-sound" conjugation which is totally alien to Latin.
I write, he writes, I wrote yesterday, I have written 20 novels , I am writing
A native speaker learns these verbs growing up as a child. How did you learn them if you didn't have a table and sit down and try and memorize them?
| Class | Present | Past | Participle |
|---|---|---|---|
| I | write | wrote | written |
| drive | drove | driven | |
| rise | rose | risen | |
| bid | bid | bid | |
| bite | bit | bitten | |
| shine | shone | shone | |
| strike | struck | struck | |
| II | choose | chose | chosen |
| fly | flew | flown | |
| freeze | froze | frozen | |
| III | sing | sang | sung |
| begin | began | begun | |
| drink | drank | drunk | |
| ring | rang | rung | |
| run | ran | run | |
| shrink | shrank | shrunk | |
| sing | sang | sung | |
| sink | sank | sunk | |
| spring | sprang | sprung | |
| sting | stung | stung | |
| stink | stank | stunk | |
| swing | swung | swung | |
| win | won* | won* | |
| IV | break | broke | broken |
| get | got | got | |
| speak | spoke | spoken | |
| swear | swore | sworn | |
| tear | tore | torn | |
| wake | woke | woken | |
| weave | wove | woven | |
| V | eat | ate | eaten |
| give | gave | given | |
| see | saw | seen | |
| sit | sat | sat | |
| bid | bid | bid | |
| lie | lay | lain | |
| VI | shake | shook | shaken |
| take | took | taken | |
| draw | drew | drawn | |
| stand | stood | stood | |
| VII | throw | threw | thrown |
| blow | blew | blown | |
| grow | grew | grown | |
| know | knew | known | |
| fall | fell | fallen | |
| hang | hung | hung | |
| hold | held | held |
March 17th, 2012 at 5:52:36 AM
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Fecha: 17 de Marzo, 2012
Palabra: captar
Today's SWD means to grasp/understand. According to the dictionary, it has lots of usages:
1. To captivate, to win, to capture.
2. To grasp, to get, to catch.
3. To collect; to dam, to harness (aguas).
4. To tune in to; to pick up, to receive (emisora).
Here is the sentence were I found it, No estoy muy seguro de que papá capte muy bien el espíritu de Halloween. = I am not very sure dad grasps very well the spirit of Halloween. It is interesting to note that the Spanish translation used the English Halloween. In the last translated book I went through they translated Halloween to día de las brujas.
Ejemplo time.
Aunque tengo una esposa y dos hijas, no capto nada de las mujeres. = Although I have a wife and two daughters, I still don't understand anything about women.
Palabra: captar
Today's SWD means to grasp/understand. According to the dictionary, it has lots of usages:
1. To captivate, to win, to capture.
2. To grasp, to get, to catch.
3. To collect; to dam, to harness (aguas).
4. To tune in to; to pick up, to receive (emisora).
Here is the sentence were I found it, No estoy muy seguro de que papá capte muy bien el espíritu de Halloween. = I am not very sure dad grasps very well the spirit of Halloween. It is interesting to note that the Spanish translation used the English Halloween. In the last translated book I went through they translated Halloween to día de las brujas.
Ejemplo time.
Aunque tengo una esposa y dos hijas, no capto nada de las mujeres. = Although I have a wife and two daughters, I still don't understand anything about women.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
March 17th, 2012 at 6:16:11 AM
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Todavía no entiendo a las mujeres.= I still don't understand women.
Yo no captar cómo piensan las mujeres = I do not grasp how women think.
Yo no captar cómo piensan las mujeres = I do not grasp how women think.
March 17th, 2012 at 6:37:54 AM
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Quote: pacomartinYo no captar cómo piensan las mujeres = I do not grasp how women think.
"Me no grasp how women think."
You wanted "No capto como piennsan las mujeres."
I've got to dash to the electrologist, but I'll post more about the subject later.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
March 17th, 2012 at 5:19:21 PM
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Quote: Wizard1. To captivate, to win, to capture.
You need to be careful with the multiple meanings. In this case capture means something more akin to "recording." That is, for example, capturing an image with a camera, or capturing the moment, or capturing the mood in a movie, etc. It does not mean to trap or to apprehend.
One meaning, too, applies to getting a good reception. If you're far from any broadcast facilities, for example, you could say "Aquí el radio no capta nada."
Quote:It is interesting to note that the Spanish translation used the English Halloween. In the last translated book I went through they translated Halloween to día de las brujas.
We've been through this, I'm sure. I think I used "Halloween" as a SWD once...
Quote:Aunque tengo una esposa y dos hijas, no capto nada de las mujeres. = Although I have a wife and two daughters, I still don't understand anything about women.
That's not wrong, per se, but it sounds odd. It seems odd in English, too. Saying "... I don't understand anything about women" sounds more natural in both languages. But the use of the word is correct.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
March 17th, 2012 at 8:54:58 PM
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Thanks for the help yesterday, but let's move on.
Fecha: 18 de Marzo, 2012
Palabra: cuestión
One of the first word one learns in Spanish is pregunta, which means question. However, there is another one to confuse people like me, cuestión. At least it is an easy cognate.
The obvious question for the advanced readers is what is the difference between pregunta y cuestión? Based on the context of the sentence I found it in, cuestión didn't refer to a specific request for information, but more of question in the rhetorical sense, as in "There is no question about it."
Ejemplo time.
Está or no está, esa es la cuestión. = To be or not to be, that is the question.
Fecha: 18 de Marzo, 2012
Palabra: cuestión
One of the first word one learns in Spanish is pregunta, which means question. However, there is another one to confuse people like me, cuestión. At least it is an easy cognate.
The obvious question for the advanced readers is what is the difference between pregunta y cuestión? Based on the context of the sentence I found it in, cuestión didn't refer to a specific request for information, but more of question in the rhetorical sense, as in "There is no question about it."
Ejemplo time.
Está or no está, esa es la cuestión. = To be or not to be, that is the question.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
March 17th, 2012 at 9:26:36 PM
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Quote: WizardThe obvious question for the advanced readers is what is the difference between pregunta y cuestión?
Meaning "question" there is no difference. But "cuestión" also means "matter" or "subject."
Quote:Based on the context of the sentence I found it in, cuestión didn't refer to a specific request for information, but more of question in the rhetorical sense, as in "There is no question about it."
In that specific example, the phrase would be "No hay ninguna duda" The last word means "doubt."
Quote:Está or no está, esa es la cuestión. = To be or not to be, that is the question.
You picked the wrong meaning. Hamlet's soliloquy in Spanish goes "Ser o no ser, esa es la cuestión."
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
March 17th, 2012 at 9:30:53 PM
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(1) !Ser o no ser, esa es la cuestión! - Bookshare (Same as Nareed)
(2) ¡Ser, o no ser, es la cuestión! translated into Spanish by Rafael Pombo, Colombian poet (Bogotá, 7 November 1833 - † 5 May 1912).
(3) Existir o no existir, ésta es la cuestión. Virtual Cervantes
You ask preguntas but you do no ask cuestiones;
never say "¿Puedo preguntar una cuestión? nor ¿Puedo hacer una cuestión?"
(2) ¡Ser, o no ser, es la cuestión! translated into Spanish by Rafael Pombo, Colombian poet (Bogotá, 7 November 1833 - † 5 May 1912).
(3) Existir o no existir, ésta es la cuestión. Virtual Cervantes
You ask preguntas but you do no ask cuestiones;
never say "¿Puedo preguntar una cuestión? nor ¿Puedo hacer una cuestión?"
March 17th, 2012 at 9:40:39 PM
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Quote: pacomartinYou ask preguntas but you do no ask cuestiones;
Question translate as "pregunta" and "ask" as "preguntar." But the phrase "ask a question" or "ask questions," can't be so easily translated. Literally it would be "pregunta preguntas," and that's considered a pleonasm of the worst kind. So the translation is "haz preguntas" or "realiza preguntas."
The translation for "may I ask you a question?" is "¿Te puedo hacer una pregunta?" Of course, in both cases you're asking for permission to do something you're already doing ;)
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
March 18th, 2012 at 3:48:31 AM
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It seems there is no direct equivalent to "ask" in Spanish. I wonder if people trying to learn English wonder what is the difference is between asking and questioning.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
March 18th, 2012 at 12:57:43 PM
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Quote: WizardIt seems there is no direct equivalent to "ask" in Spanish. I wonder if people trying to learn English wonder what is the difference is between asking and questioning.
Questioning is not a frequently used word, while ask is one of the most commonly used English verbs.
The word is Old English in origin. Both the Old English words āxian & āscian were used leading to the present day vernacular use of āxe instead of ask.
Most languages derive their word for "ask" from the word for "pray".
pray- rezar: the people are praying for rain - la gente está rezando para que llueva
A legitimate, if somewhat archaic, English word is precatory which means “one who prays”.
The word "question" was adopted into English from Old French after the Norman Conquest, so it is from a Latin word quæstionem and clearly has a cognate in Spanish.
March 18th, 2012 at 1:03:22 PM
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I don't know if the Wizard is going to offer a SWD today, so I will nominate an English Word. The verb "to try" is one of the most commonly used verbs we adopted from Old French. What makes it relatively unique is that it is not clear where the French word came from . Since most French words are Latin in origin, they have cognate in Spanish.
The verb "try" is not from a Latin word, and it has multiple meanings in Spanish. Some of the Spanish words clearly have cognates in English (probe, intend, mediate, purify, tentative or tender, procure). Following is a table of possible Spanish words for translation.
Maybe Nareed will say if he found this word difficult when learning English.
The verb "try" is not from a Latin word, and it has multiple meanings in Spanish. Some of the Spanish words clearly have cognates in English (probe, intend, mediate, purify, tentative or tender, procure). Following is a table of possible Spanish words for translation.
| to attempt | Intentar |
| to test, to taste | Probar |
| to try on | Probarse |
| to try a law | Ver |
| to try a person in court | Juzgar |
| to test a person or your patience | Poner a prueba |
| to measure, to try on | Medirse |
| to try by experimentation | Experimentar |
| to examine by touch | Tentar |
| to purify a metal | Purificar |
| to treat, to handle | Tratar |
| to adopt measures for obtaining, to try | Procurar |
Maybe Nareed will say if he found this word difficult when learning English.
March 18th, 2012 at 1:20:25 PM
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Is this a bit like trying to translate the Latin "do"?
March 18th, 2012 at 3:53:21 PM
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I think intentar substitutes best for most usages of the English "try."
By the way, cuestión is the SWD for 3/18. I often will post the SWD before I go to bed, but date it for the following day. However, we can always have two. When I repeated a word recently I supplied another one.
By the way, cuestión is the SWD for 3/18. I often will post the SWD before I go to bed, but date it for the following day. However, we can always have two. When I repeated a word recently I supplied another one.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
March 18th, 2012 at 4:12:29 PM
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Quote: DocIs this a bit like trying to translate the Latin "do"?
The Latin verb: Do, dare, dedi, datus has a descendant in Spanish as "dar, dado, dando". It does not have a French descendant.
English never adopted the word , and retained the verb "to give" from Old English. The English word "dare" is spelled the same by coincidence.
English adopted the verb "to use" from the Old French user, and replaced the Old English word for everyday speech. But the French word comes from the Latin word usare which has as it's descendant in Spanish "usar, usado, usando" with a regular conjugation. It's the most common English verb that is the same as the Spanish verb.
But English also adopted to verb "to try" from the Old French trier. But uncharacteristically the Old French word is not traceable to a Latin word. There is no cognate in Spanish.
Most of the Latin words in English came indirectly via the Norman conquest, so they went from Latin to some version of French to English. Later on the Latin and Greek words were introduced directly, but mostly for science.
In some smaller number of cases we got them from Italian, and in a very small number of cases we got them directly from Spanish. But now some true Spanish words like "rodeo" have been adopted unchanged.
Quote: Oxford English
The 25 most frequent verbs in English are all one-syllable words.
Of these 25, twenty are Old English words,
and three more ,get, seem, and want, entered English from Old Norse in the early medieval period.
Only try and use came from Old French.
March 18th, 2012 at 4:26:16 PM
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When I asked, "Is this a bit like trying to translate the Latin 'do'?", I meant in terms of the wide variety of meanings that it can have. I remember my Latin teacher suggesting that the English "do" and "drive" were good places to start, with a large number of alternates. I certainly don't remember them, but Google Translate (if I am using it properly) offers options of:
GIVE
PAY
OFFER
GRANT
BESTOW
LEND
DONATE
FURNISH
DEDICATE
CONTRIBUTE
DEVOTE
BRING ABOUT
ALLOT
CAUSE
COMMUNICATE
ASSIGN
ENABLE
TELL
CONCEDE
IMPUTE
DELIVER
ALLOW
PUT
HAND OVER
PRODUCE
UTTER
ASCRIBE
CONFER
PERMIT
ALLOCATE
GIVE
PAY
OFFER
GRANT
BESTOW
LEND
DONATE
FURNISH
DEDICATE
CONTRIBUTE
DEVOTE
BRING ABOUT
ALLOT
CAUSE
COMMUNICATE
ASSIGN
ENABLE
TELL
CONCEDE
IMPUTE
DELIVER
ALLOW
PUT
HAND OVER
PRODUCE
UTTER
ASCRIBE
CONFER
PERMIT
ALLOCATE
March 18th, 2012 at 4:51:15 PM
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Quote: WizardI think intentar substitutes best for most usages of the English "try."
By the way, cuestión is the SWD for 3/18. I often will post the SWD before I go to bed, but date it for the following day. However, we can always have two. When I repeated a word recently I supplied another one.
I listed intentar as the first translation, since it is the most common meaning. Many times even if there is no cognate, the concept is straightforward enough that there is pretty much a one to one correlation. The verbs "to speak" and hablar are not cognates, but they have almost identical meanings (sometimes you have to use decir).
Technically I posted an English word of the day. I forgot there were dates on the words.
March 18th, 2012 at 5:01:28 PM
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Quote: DocWhen I asked, "Is this a bit like trying to translate the Latin 'do'?", I meant in terms of the wide variety of meanings that it can have. I remember my Latin teacher suggesting that the English "do" and "drive" were good places to start, with a large number of alternates. I certainly don't remember them, but Google Translate (if I am using it properly) offers options of:
GIVE
My Latin was so long ago, that I forgot that It looks like doy in Spanish "I give".
The most number of definitions in the Oxford English Dictionary and etymology are:
SET - 464 (Old English - settan , and Old French - sette)
RUN - 396 (Two different Old English words merged)
GO - 368 (Two different Old English words merged)
TAKE - 343 (Two different Old English words)
STAND - 334 (Old English and Latin word combined)
GET - 289 (Old Norse, phrasal verbs get back, get off, get on, get over, get together, get up, get out, ...)
TURN - 288 (Old English - turnian, and Old French - torner)
PUT - 268 (Old English)
FALL - 264 (Old English)
STRIKE - 250 (Old English)
Obviously if a word has come from more than one root word, the more definitions it takes on over the centuries. Also simple words are used in new ways all the time, and acquire new meanings.
March 18th, 2012 at 7:30:20 PM
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Wizard, regarding your occasional misuse of Spanish, you may be happy to know I found someone who tops you. I'm looking up my Vegas trip and one source is Expedia's Spanish site (no particular reason save curiosity). Nominally it's expedia.mx, meaning it's based in or meant for Mexico.
So when looking at the hotel info, there's a heading that says "Restauración." It holds a list of restaurants and other food choices at the hotel. :)
My guess is they translate info from the main site in English...
Another interesting bit is they do offer flights by Volaris, while the English site does not. Odd.
So when looking at the hotel info, there's a heading that says "Restauración." It holds a list of restaurants and other food choices at the hotel. :)
My guess is they translate info from the main site in English...
Another interesting bit is they do offer flights by Volaris, while the English site does not. Odd.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
March 18th, 2012 at 7:45:52 PM
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Quote: NareedSo when looking at the hotel info, there's a heading that says "Restauración." It holds a list of restaurants and other food choices at the hotel. :) My guess is they translate info from the main site in English... Another interesting bit is they do offer flights by Volaris, while the English site does not. Odd.
The dictionary lists restaurante as a restaurant, and servicio de restauración as "food service". So it is possible for a machine translation to not translate the word as "restoration". Still you would think that with 50 million Spanish speakers, you could hire one for a travel site that was geared at Mexico.
As to your second question Southwest's business policy is never to offer their fares on 3rd party websites. My guess is that Volaris agreed to advertise only on the SW web site (for English) as part of the Southwest/Volaris partnership.
March 18th, 2012 at 9:27:03 PM
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Quote: NareedWizard, regarding your occasional misuse of Spanish, you may be happy to know I found someone who tops you...
At least I'm better than somebody. Actually, I would be proud to be better than an online translator.
Fecha: 12 de Marzo, 2012
Palabra: Pecar
Today's SWD is one our FrG wold be familiar with. It means to sin or merit punishment. A related would would be castigar, which would be to give a punishment. The word for a sin (noun) is pecado, which is also the past participle (sinned).
Ejemplo time.
Perdonarme Padre, porque he pecado. Yo robé los señales de posadas les dicen "por favor, no molestarme." = Forgive me father, for I have sinned. I stole the hotel signs that say "Please don't disturb."
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
March 18th, 2012 at 9:29:45 PM
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Quote: Wizard...
Fecha: 12 de Marzo, 2012
I know we are in different time zones, but ....
March 19th, 2012 at 5:30:09 AM
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Quote: WizardAt least I'm better than somebody. Actually, I would be proud to be better than an online translator.
You can't be worse, trust me. But I did think actual people checked the tranlsations the amchines make. they've along way to go still.
Quote:Perdonarme Padre, porque he pecado.
That's perfect.
Quote:Yo robé los señales de posadas les dicen "por favor, no molestarme."
Tell me a machine did that, please...
"Me robé letreros de algunos hoteles que dicen 'Favor de no molestar'. "
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
March 19th, 2012 at 5:43:37 AM
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Quote: NareedTell me a machine did that, please...
"Me robé letreros de algunos hoteles que dicen 'Favor de no molestar'. "
Nope.
I didn't put Me robé, because I would take that to mean I stole from myself. As for "signs" I wasn't sure whether to use letreros or señales. Somehow I thought I saw señal being used to mean sign before. I've never seen favor without the por, so I don't see why that is right.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
March 19th, 2012 at 6:10:48 AM
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Quote: WizardI didn't put Me robé, because I would take that to mean I stole from myself.
It works that way only with intransitive verbs. For example, if you fell, you'd say "me caí." With transitive verbs you must indicate the object in question. So "me robé los letreros" means "I stole the signs."
Quote:As for "signs" I wasn't sure whether to use letreros or señales. Somehow I thought I saw señal being used to mean sign before.
It means sign but not as in a street sign. If you prayed to a god for a sign, you would say "dios, dame una señal."
But with usage it gets complicated. If I were to hire you to set up the signage in a casino, in Spanish I'd say "te quiero contratar para que hagas la señalización de mi casino."
Quote:I've never seen favor without the por, so I don't see why that is right.
Oh, it's quite common. And having stayed in many hotels in Mexico, I can assure you the door sign says "favor de no molestar" 9 times out of ten.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
March 19th, 2012 at 6:41:47 AM
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Quote: NareedIt works that way only with intransitive verbs. For example, if you fell, you'd say "me caí." With transitive verbs you must indicate the object in question. So "me robé los letreros" means "I stole the signs."
Thanks. This is an area I still have difficulty with. I can see how robar is transitive, because you have to steal something (in this case, the sign), but I don't see why that necessitates the me. This is probably beyond the scope of what can be explained in a post. Perhaps we can suspend this until I cash in on one of my Spanish lessons. Until then, I still would interpret me robé as I stole from myself. Me caí does not bother me as much, because I'm the victim when I fall.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
March 19th, 2012 at 7:39:36 AM
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Personal pronoun list
The pronoun me is both for direct objects, indirect objects, and reflexive objects.
It's still not clear when you use robar, and when you use atracar
atracar transitive verb
: to hold up, to rob, to mug
atracarse reflexive verb
familiar atracarse de
: to gorge oneself with
The pronoun me is both for direct objects, indirect objects, and reflexive objects.
It's still not clear when you use robar, and when you use atracar
atracar transitive verb
: to hold up, to rob, to mug
atracarse reflexive verb
familiar atracarse de
: to gorge oneself with
March 19th, 2012 at 8:00:04 AM
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Quote: Wizard
Today's SWD is one our FrG wold be familiar with. It means to sin or merit punishment.
You are right I am unfortunately familiar with that word. Oh wait, did you mean the definition is what I'm familiar with...I've said too much.
Actually this is a very appropriate word for me to learn in Spanish as the Confession season is really heating up. I have three huge penance services this week and literally thousands of Catholics always come out of the woodwork to go to Confession before Easter. Every once and a while someone will confess in Spanish and begin exactly as you began the ejemplo. We have a shortage of Spanish speaking priests in our area. Anyway I will patiently listen, give a light penance, and give absolution in English. Now that I think about it I should learn some more Spanish words for big sins so I'm not giving out a Hail Mary for murder. Peace.
yo quiero Taco Bell.
