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Nareed
Nareed
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June 16th, 2011 at 4:17:21 AM permalink
I have to ask: what's with the Argentinian slang?

Is there a large Argie community in Vegas, or are you planning to visit Argentina?

Quote: Wizard

Que él como un boludo que necesita a desnudarse a contar hasta 21. = He is such a dummy that he needs to undress to count to 21.



What you said is: "The he as a dummy who needs to undress to in order to count to 21."

So here's a corrected version: "Es tan idiota que necesita desnudarse para contar a 21."

Sorry for not using your word of the day.
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Wizard
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June 16th, 2011 at 5:20:06 AM permalink
Quote: Nareed

I have to ask: what's with the Argentinian slang?

Is there a large Argie community in Vegas, or are you planning to visit Argentina?



I've been going through the lessons at Bueno, entonces, which teaches Argentine Spanish, with no apologies. For example, using vos, instead of tú, and pronouncing ll with a "sh" sound. I found this site after Paco linked to one of their videos.

My tutor is also from Argentina, but I don't think I can blame her, as she barely touches slang, and tries to teach proper Spanish, per the rules from the Palacio Real in Spain. Often she will mention common ways of saying things in the Americanized form of Mexican Spanish that you hear in the south-west US, but always with a remark that such deviations are not correct Spanish, to put it delicately.

Yes, I would like to go to Argentina this fall, as a matter of fact. No particular reason, other than I've always heard great things, and my tutor could hook me up with her friends there to show me around.

Quote: Nareed

So here's a corrected version: "Es tan idiota que necesita desnudarse para contar a 21."

Sorry for not using your word of the day.



Blame Google again. I thought their translation didn't look right, but I'm sure my efforts to improve it would only make it worse. For example, I wouldn't think to use your version because it doesn't have an el in there, so how do we even know we're talking about a man, which clearly is needed for the joke. Perhaps the punchline made it obvious. Thanks for the correction but I indeed substituted boludo for idiota in the original post.
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Nareed
Nareed
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June 16th, 2011 at 5:45:15 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

I've been going through the lessons at Bueno, entonces, which teaches Argentine Spanish, with no apologies. For example, using vos, instead of tú, and pronouncing ll with a "sh" sound. I found this site after Paco linked to one of their videos.



As far as I know that kind of language use is current only in Argentina, but perhaps it takes place in other parts of South America. In any case, using "vos" elsewhere will generate smiles, if not outright laughter and mockery. As will pronouncing LL and Y as SH.


Quote:

Yes, I would like to go to Argentina this fall, as a matter of fact. No particular reason, other than I've always heard great things, and my tutor could hook me up with her friends there to show me around.



Be sure to get your shots before you go :P


Quote:

Blame Google again.



Sorry, I can't. You should be doing the work yourself, not relying on an online translator. You won't gain fluency if you don't practice. Of course if you don't want fluency that's another matter.

Quote:

For example, I wouldn't think to use your version because it doesn't have an el in there, so how do we even know we're talking about a man, which clearly is needed for the joke. Perhaps the punchline made it obvious. Thanks for the correction but I indeed substituted boludo for idiota in the original post.



1) The photo made it obvious. You don't need to add pronouns when they're not needed. If the subject isn't known, then you need to say "el es tan...."

2) The joke/derisive phrase about undressing would not apply to a woman.
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Wizard
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June 16th, 2011 at 8:34:47 AM permalink
Quote: Nareed

As far as I know that kind of language use is current only in Argentina, but perhaps it takes place in other parts of South America. In any case, using "vos" elsewhere will generate smiles, if not outright laughter and mockery. As will pronouncing LL and Y as SH.



Dang. I admit the "sh" sound for ll is take some getting used to. However, I hear lots of people here making something between a "j" and "sh" sound for y. In particular in the word "yo." For example, look how Azeneth pronounces it in the first word of this video. I'm pretty sure she is from Mexico. We discussed the pronunciation of "yo" way back in this thread.

Quote: Nareed

Be sure to get your shots before you go :P



I'll tell them you said that.

Quote: Nareed

Sorry, I can't. You should be doing the work yourself, not relying on an online translator. You won't gain fluency if you don't practice. Of course if you don't want fluency that's another matter.



I use the translator out of respect for you. You already help me a lot and didn't want you to have to untangle my horrible grammar as well. As bad as Google is, they do a much better job and I can. However, per your request I'll not rely on that entirely. Thanks again for all your help, and Paco too.
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Nareed
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June 16th, 2011 at 9:04:03 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Dang. I admit the "sh" sound for ll is take some getting used to. However, I hear lots of people here making something between a "j" and "sh" sound for y. In particular in the word "yo." For example, look how Azeneth pronounces it in the first word of this video. I'm pretty sure she is from Mexico. We discussed the pronunciation of "yo" way back in this thread.



Oh, there's a radio ad for an English school called Interlingua. the slogan is "!Vamos, say yes! Y di "sí" a la mejor escuela...." I don't remember it all. Anyway, where the announcer says "say yes" it sounds like "say Jess." In other ads they have a chorus of people saying the "¡Vamos, say yes!" and they all sound more like "Jess" than "yes."

I don't mind my pronunciation when speaking Spanish every day, but I do when speaking English. You heard me speak. be honest, please, did you notice anything odd that way when I used words with a Y in them?

Quote:

I'll tell them you said that.



By all means.

I know it's a petty way to get back at those Argies I can't stand, which are too numerous, but I'm only human.

Tell them this joke, too:

¿Como se suicida un Argentino?
Se sube a su ego y se deja caer.

Q: How does an Argenitnian commit suicide?
A: He jumps off the top of his ego.

I have others.

For your safety, though, I'll give you two tips:

1) don't ever utter the word Falklands
2) Remember it's a very religious country, so try not to insult God; or, as they call Him in Argentina, Maradona. (I am not kidding).

Quote:

I use the translator out of respect for you. You already help me a lot and didn't want you to have to untangle my horrible grammar as well. As bad as Google is, they do a much better job and I can. However, per your request I'll not rely on that entirely. Thanks again for all your help, and Paco too.



I appreciate your consideration, thank you. But I can be bothered to untangle a few examples per week. I swear I wont' ask for more than your soul in return, too :P
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pacomartin
pacomartin
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June 16th, 2011 at 11:55:55 AM permalink
Quote: Nareed

I know it's a petty way to get back at those Argies I can't stand, which are too numerous, but I'm only human.
Tell them this joke, too:
¿Como se suicida un Argentino?
Se sube a su ego y se deja caer.
Q: How does an Argenitnian commit suicide?
A: He jumps off the top of his ego.

I have others.
For your safety, though, I'll give you two tips:

1) don't ever utter the word Falklands
2) Remember it's a very religious country, so try not to insult God; or, as they call Him in Argentina, Maradona. (I am not kidding).



Blog
‘Desde el baño’ is an interesting site to help you get a grasp of Argentine slang. It is geared to people who speak Spanish, not English. But it has some good videos along the theme "This is called 'this' in Argentina, not 'that' ". You get to hear a lot of different people speaking Argintinean.

Serious Documentary
There is a new documentary called Argentina in Therapy .Buenos Aires is the psychoanalytic capital of the world boasting twice the number of therapists per head than New York. Through years of state terror and economic disaster millions of Argentines have sought refuge on the analyst's couch. Such a demand for an expensive and time consuming exercise suggests a neurosis on a national scale. Like the analyst, this film puts Argentina on the couch to find the roots causes of this unique obsession.

Take three minutes and watch the pre-title sequence. Buenos Aires has many obsessions: (1)psychoanalysis, (2) cosmetic surgery, (3)nostalgia for their lost wealth, (4) the tango.
Nareed
Nareed
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June 16th, 2011 at 12:22:34 PM permalink
Quote: pacomartin

Blog
‘Desde el baño’ is an interesting site to help you get a grasp of Argentine slang.



Perhaps. But why would I want to?
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Wizard
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Wizard
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June 16th, 2011 at 1:04:35 PM permalink
Quote: Nareed

I don't mind my pronunciation when speaking Spanish every day, but I do when speaking English. You heard me speak. be honest, please, did you notice anything odd that way when I used words with a Y in them?



As I recall you English was fine. Otherwise, I just remember you were a soft talker. The next time I see you I'll go harder on you when it comes to pronunciation.

Quote: Nareed

Se sube a su ego y se deja caer. = He jumps off the top of his ego.



Why did you use subir for jump? I would have used saltar. Subir I thought meant, briefly, to "rise." To be more specific, to lift up, roll up, or wind up something. It is a word I am not very comfortable with, but it doesn't bother me nearly as much as echar.

Quote: Nareed

For your safety, though, I'll give you two tips:

1) don't ever utter the word Falklands
2) Remember it's a very religious country, so try not to insult God; or, as they call Him in Argentina, Maradona. (I am not kidding).



I won't profess my atheism over there, but make no promises about number 1. I've never understood Argentina's claim over the islands, and would like to get a straight answer on that.

Quote: Nareed

I appreciate your consideration, thank you. But I can be bothered to untangle a few examples per week. I swear I wont' ask for more than your soul in return, too :P



Thanks :-). I will definitely go easy on you as my slave in the afterlife.
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benbakdoff
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June 16th, 2011 at 2:02:56 PM permalink
Quote: Nareed

Again I've no idea where you're getting this. I suspect South American sources.

In Mexico concha does mean shell, it's also the name of a type of pastry, and a vulgar word for laziness.

BTW I don't mind the occasional dirty word. But if you're making it a habit or a theme, then, if it's all the same to you, I'd rather sit the next few posts out.



I'm with you, Nareed. There are so many beautiful words and phrases in Spanish without bringing up the bad ones.

Did I ever use those words? Sure, when I was 12 and had just learned them on the playground.
pacomartin
pacomartin
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June 16th, 2011 at 2:05:21 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard


Why did you use subir for jump? I would have used saltar. Subir I thought meant, briefly, to "rise." To be more specific, to lift up, roll up, or wind up something. It is a word I am not very comfortable with, but it doesn't bother me nearly as much as echar.

I won't profess my atheism over there, but make no promises about number 1. I've never understood Argentina's claim over the islands, and would like to get a straight answer on that. .



Se sube a su ego y se deja caer. = He jumps off the top of his ego.
I think it more literally translates as "he rises up his ego and he lets himself fall down". Nareed is translating it closer to the way we would say it in English.

A less well known part of history -
Quote: BBC in 2006


Britain's 'forgotten' invasion of Argentina
It's 200 years since Britain's invading army was routed from Buenos Aires - a mere footnote in British history, but, says military historian Peter Caddick-Adams, a historic event in the forging of friendship between the two countries that eclipses the Falklands fall-out.
Did I hear that right? Apparently we are now marking the bicentennial of the Reconquest of Buenos Aires by Argentine forces from the British in 1806 and the Argentine ambassador to Britain Federico Mirre is hosting a memorial.

If, as Winston Churchill said, battles are the punctuation marks of history, then the events in far off Argentina 200 years ago rate as a relatively minor comma. That said, what were the Brits doing there in the first place?

In fact this summer marks the first of two invasions of Buenos Aires in 1806 and 1807: military expeditions that took place within the framework of the Napoleonic Wars with France.

Spain, then a French ally (remember that it was a combined Spanish-French fleet that Nelson attacked off Cape Trafalgar in 1805) was at war with Great Britain and one way of hitting back was for the Brits to attack the Spanish colonies in South America.

The overall aim was to gain control of River Plate - a large estuary between what is now Argentina and Uruguay - by conquering the dominant city, Buenos Aires.
On 27 June 1806 a British force of 1,500 men under William Carr Beresford occupied the city, for about six weeks until surrendering in mid-August to colonial militia, led by Santiago de Liniers y Bremond, a French nobleman at the service of Spain.

A second, better-resourced invasion followed in May 1807, under Lieutenant-General John Whitelock, attacking Buenos Aires in July. After a couple of days of intense street fighting, the British surrendered to an army it had considered no more than a rabble.

After losing more than half his force, the British signed a ceasefire on 7 July and left for home, where Whitelock was court-martialled and discharged.

War often defines nationhood: just as America was said to have come of age in 1776, when British colonists declared their independence from the Crown, so Argentina felt it had come of age as a separate state, having fought for themselves against the British.

“ In 1900, Harrods had two branches, London and Buenos Aires, surely a sign that trade had cemented the two countries ”
Peter Caddick-Adams
Within three years of routing the British, Buenos Aires established a government independent from the Spanish Crown, anticipating the eventual declaration of Independence of Argentina of 1816. This sparked the Wars of Independence throughout South America that ended Spanish domination in 1826.
When dignitaries gather in London on Saturday to mark the 200th anniversary, I hope Ambassador Mirre remembers not the British invasion, but its lasting impact, therefore.

In some ways, Argentina has much to thank Britain for: a war which led to her independence. Furthermore, some of the British, and Irish, prisoners-of-war from 1806 and 1807 decided to stay and took part, voluntarily, in fighting the Spanish military machine elsewhere in South America, securing the independence also of Chile, Peru and Ecuador.

Amongst these was Irish-born William Brown, considered the founder of the Argentine navy, who led Argentine fleets, first against the Spanish, then Brazil in the 1820s.

This obscure Napoleonic campaign also saw key British generals, such as Beresford, and another, known as Robert "Black Bob" Craufurd, tested in war, before they later took on the French in the Peninsular War, the setting for the Sharpe novels and TV dramas starring Sean Bean.

Ironically by then, Spain had had enough of France - who had deposed the Spanish king and occupied most of the Iberian Peninsula - and its army was fighting alongside the British and Portuguese, led by the Duke of Wellington, to repel the French.
Of course, the Falkland Islands are never far from our minds when we think of Argentina, but they were never really a bone of contention until made into one by a military junta in 1982.

Discovered by English navigator John Davis in 1592, the French took possession and founded the settlement of Port Louis in 1764. The British, who claimed them on the grounds of their previous discovery, removed the French in 1765; meanwhile France had sold her rights to Spain who yielded the islands to Great Britain in 1771.

It was only in 1820 that the new country of Argentina laid claim to the islands, but the British declared them a crown colony in 1832.

Against this backdrop of benign diplomatic debate, to shift attention away from the faltering economy of General Galtieri's regime, the islands were invaded on 2 April 1982.

Britain retaliated, forcing the Argentine surrender in Port Stanley on 14 June, but Galtieri's military junta fell shortly afterwards.
The invasion, the 25th anniversary of which will be marked by "major celebrations" in London next year - was a great tragedy for British-Argentine relations. There remains a huge English-speaking community throughout Argentina, established over the last 200 years. In 1900, Harrods had two branches, London and Buenos Aires, surely a sign that trade had cemented the two countries.

In some ways, the Argentine embassy's event should observe the friendship between the two nations, who have been allies for 200 years and opponents for just a few months over that period. Our real war, should I say England's real war, with Argentina is football, nothing else.


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