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Wizard
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December 8th, 2011 at 9:48:41 AM permalink
Quote: pacomartin

Esperanza Rising is an award winning book written by Pam Muñoz Ryan who grew up in California. She is not a native speaker, but she grew up hearing Spanish and has studied the language. The original book is mostly English but with some Spanish. I suspect she had a lot more input into the translation than Beverly Cleary.
But that looks more like 6th grade reading level



Thanks for the suggestion. I bought a lot of children's books at a bookstore in the Mexico City airport, but will add this to my collection my next Amazon order, if I remember.

I think the the Spanish translation of the Beverly Cleary books could be better. In the chapter I just finished, the Spanish version completely left off the last paragraph. Other times I think the translator didn't understand an English idiom and just made up something that seemed to flow well.

I would think that if a bilingual writer wrote books specifically in both languages they would be a great way to pick up a new language and sell well. Most conventional ways of learning a language on your own are terribly boring and/or hard. I think if Beverly knew that her book would get translated, she wouldn't be so quick to use colorful idiomatic expressions like the one in your example, and keep things simpler.
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December 8th, 2011 at 11:23:00 AM permalink
Bilingual Books specializes in children's books written in both languages side by side from the beginning.

One book on the list is of interest for it's author:
Quote: Subcomandante Insurgente Marcos

The Story of Colors/La Historia de Los Colores
A folktale from the jungles of Chiapas, tells how the gods found the colors of the world. From the down-to-earth wisdom of the indigenous peoples of Chiapas, a fresh perspective on the struggles of the people there as they fight to conserve their culture & a vision of the world they see as “flowering with holiness” - that can’t be measured in dollars or defined by politics.
Ages: 8+



Subcomandante Marcos is the spokesman for the Zapatista Army of National Liberation (EZLN), a Mexican rebel movement fighting for the rights of the indigenous peoples of Mexico. On the 1st of January 1994, when the U.S.–Mexico free trade agreement became effective, Subcomandante Marcos led an army of Mayan farmers into eastern Chiapas state, and took over the town of San Cristobal de las Casas[/ur]. The municipality contains over 80 hotels with more than 2,000 rooms.



The Mexican government alleges Marcos to be one "Rafael Sebastián Guillén Vicente", born June 19, 1957 in Tampico, Tamaulipas to Spanish immigrants. He has not revealed his face publicly in over 20 years. Of the 21 books he has written, the children's book above is the best selling one.
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December 8th, 2011 at 2:15:49 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Fecha: 12-8-11



That's 8-12-11 :) Sorry, but Spanish dates are day/month/year.

Quote:

Lindo: Estropear (to break)



I'm afraid that's wrong. "Estropear" means "to spoil." It may mean "to break" in the sense of causing something to malfunction. For example:

Quote:

El ladrido de el perro estropeó el silencio de la noche. = The barking dog broke the silence of the night.



Your translation is off. The spanish phrase says "The dog's bark spoiled the quiet of the night."

Now for to break: "Estropeaste el motor por no checar el aceite." = "you broke the engine because you dind't check the oil." Not a very good one, but you get the idea.

BTW "Estropear" isn't used much. It's another literal word. More commonly you'd say "echaste a perder," or avariation thereof.

Quote:

Eso comida no estaba de acuerdo con mi estómago. = That meal did not agree with my stomach.



Again, not quite right. The phraseology just dones't work in spanish. Try "EsA comida le hizo daño a mi estomago."
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December 8th, 2011 at 3:33:42 PM permalink
Quote: Nareed

I'm afraid that's wrong. "Estropear" means "to spoil."



My dictionary says estropear is based on an Italian loanward stroppiare.

A more 'natural' Spanish synonym would be the double infinitive echar a perder. I see that phrase all over the web. In some cases I see echar perder, but it always seems to be people who don't write in Spanish very well.

I am confused about using the word "a" as a conjunction between two infinitives. Which sentence is correct?
¿Me puedes enseñar a bailar?"
¿Me puedes enseñar bailar?"

It seems like most of the time the word "a" is not necessary, as in "poder hablar".
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December 8th, 2011 at 3:38:57 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Yup, that is the book I'm reading, and I make no apologies. My Spanish is at about a second grade level, at best, so this is the best I can do. I have a bilingual version of Treasure Island, but it is way too hard for me. Sadly, I can't think of a more effective way to learn the language than to go through translations of children's books.



While I was learning English there were simplified versions of books at the school library. I used those at first for a brief time. I don't know why I dind't think of this before. Anyway, try asking your tutor whether there's something like that in Spanish.
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December 8th, 2011 at 3:43:54 PM permalink
Quote: pacomartin

Which sentence is correct?
¿Me puedes enseñar a bailar?"
¿Me puedes enseñar bailar?"



If forced, I think the first is right. Having three verbs in a row just feels unnatural. I know the dictionaries say a, in Spanish, means "at," but I've learned there is seldom a one to one connection with prepositions. In this case my guess would be that it acts more like "to." Then again, don't listen to me, I'm just hazarding my own guess.
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December 8th, 2011 at 4:23:31 PM permalink
Quote: pacomartin

I am confused about using the word "a" as a conjunction between two infinitives. Which sentence is correct?
¿Me puedes enseñar a bailar?"
¿Me puedes enseñar bailar?"



The first one. You don't say in English "Can you to teach me dance?" do you?

Quote:

It seems like most of the time the word "a" is not necessary, as in "poder hablar".



"Poder hablar" can be used correctly in some cases. For example, someone who has their jaw wired shut might say "Pasé dos semanas sin poder hablar." But it's about as common as having your jaw wired shut :)
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Nareed
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December 8th, 2011 at 4:28:46 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

I think if Beverly knew that her book would get translated, she wouldn't be so quick to use colorful idiomatic expressions like the one in your example, and keep things simpler.



Not likely. Many books get translated. An author will write what she wants to say, and in many cases just how she wants to say it. if that hurts the translation, well, i can't think of an author who'd give it more than a passing thought.

The problem lies, as we've discussed before, with shoddy translation. One thing that spurred me to gain fluency in English was reading, because the available translations were so awful. Tranlsating things well is an "art" in a way. First you have to convey meaning, then the feel and lastly the style. the last is often impossible to put accross, and it works better with unornamented, clear writing. The feel can be hard, too.
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December 8th, 2011 at 8:42:24 PM permalink
I didn't express myself well. I meant that if a book were written with the intention of being translated then it should use words and phrases that translate well.
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December 8th, 2011 at 9:31:01 PM permalink
Fecha: Dec. 9, 2011
Lindo: Soltar (to let go)
Feo: Yogur (yogurt)

Ejemplo time.

Soltas a mi yogur antes que te voy a golpar. = Let go of my yogurt before I hit you.
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December 8th, 2011 at 9:45:43 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Fecha: Dec. 9, 2011



Day. Month. Year.

This drives me up the wall, too. But consider you say "9 de Diciembre de 2011," not "Diciembre 9 de 2011." You shuld see some papers we get which go year/day/month...


Quote:

Feo: Yogur (yogurt)



Oh, dear. That word gets so abused these days. I've seen is spelled yogurt, yoghurt, yogurth among other. "Yogur" is pretty rare, if anyone uses it at all. In Mexico the final "T" is a given.

Quote:

Soltas a mi yogur antes que te voy a golpar. = Let go of my yogurt before I hit you.



The tenses don't quite work, and you're using south american conjugations anwyay...

Try "Suelta mi yogurt o te pego" = "Let go of my yogurt or I'll strike you."

"Antes de" is used, but not in the type of situation in your example. A common use in a similar situation is the cliche "Vete antes de que cambie de parecer" = "Go before I change my mind."
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December 9th, 2011 at 2:12:57 AM permalink
Quote: Nareed

Suelta mi yogurt o te pego. = Let go of my yogurt or I'll strike you.



Thank you. The hitting would be done in the future, so why didn't you say pegaré? I know I didn't use the future tense either, but as Paco said here recently, the form: voy a (infinitive) can mean to do something in the near future. Can I assume just from context that you're referring to the future?

Also, both spanishdict.com and the Beverly Cleary translator go with yogur.
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December 9th, 2011 at 6:07:07 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Quote: Nareed

Suelta mi yogurt o te pego. = Let go of my yogurt or I'll strike you.



Thank you. The hitting would be done in the future, so why didn't you say pegaré? I know I didn't use the future tense either, but as Paco said here recently, the form: voy a (infinitive) can mean to do something in the near future. Can I assume just from context that you're referring to the future?



NOTE: The present tense is often used instead of the future for near future actions:

I said voy, vas, va, vamos, van + infinitivo is also a way to refer to the future (nothing about near future). In fact in English this is the way we normally make the future tense. Mexican Spanish prefers this method of for the future tense. The morphological way (using verb inflections) is more widely used in Spain and Argentina.
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December 9th, 2011 at 6:33:42 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Thank you. The hitting would be done in the future, so why didn't you say pegaré?



Too literal. You might say "Suelta mi yogurt o te pegaré," but it sounds wrong.

Quote:

Also, both spanishdict.com and the Beverly Cleary translator go with yogur.



No doubt. But three of the biggest dairy companies here cal it "yoghurt." I spell it "yogurt."

It can be even worse. Look up how to say "tea" in Spanish. I say it's "te." I've seen it spelled "the" and "teh." It's a good thing I prefer coffee :)
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December 9th, 2011 at 6:56:04 AM permalink
Quote: Nareed

Look up how to say "tea" in Spanish. I say it's "te." I've seen it spelled "the" and "teh." It's a good thing I prefer coffee :)



SpanishDict says , which is what I thought it was.

On a related topic, how often do you see maté in Mexico?
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December 9th, 2011 at 7:03:18 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

SpanishDict says , which is what I thought it was.



Exactly. So it's puzzling you often see it spelled "The."


Quote:

On a related topic, how often do you see maté in Mexico?



To quote Victor Hugo: "?"

I seem to recall hearing the word is a noun in South America, but I can't remember what it is. In context I would guess some kind of tea. at first glance, it's the past tense of "matar" = "to kill," which would make no sense as a question :) Sorry.
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December 9th, 2011 at 7:42:15 AM permalink
The whole population of Argentina seems to be walking around with a mate cup. It is like tea, but it isn't based on tea leaves but a mixture of herbs. They fill a whole cup with it, add hot water, and drink it through a metal straw. Then they keep adding more hot water. It is the same way people in mainland China drink tea, but they don't use a straw.

Mate cups are also made out of metal about 95% of the time, the other 5% wood. Once I saw a shopkeeper drinking mate out of a coffee taza and questioned her why she was drinking mate out of a coffee cup. If I understood her Spanish correctly she said she forgot to bring her mate cup to work, but that a coffee cup served the same purpose just as well anyway.

I had several conversations about mate. Some professed it had great health benefits, and others said they knew it was unhealthy, but they liked it too much to cut back.
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December 9th, 2011 at 9:31:08 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

They fill a whole cup with it, add hot water, and drink it through a metal straw.



Ouch? Doesn't that cause like burns on the lips??
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December 9th, 2011 at 9:45:00 AM permalink
Quote: Nareed

Ouch? Doesn't that cause like burns on the lips??



No. I tried it myself and it isn't that hot. Again, they fill the entire cup with mate, not just a little on the bottom. So when they pour in the water much of that heat is absorbed by the herbs and whatever else mate really is.

It would be like filling a cup with sawdust, and then pouring in hot water. A minute later the water won't be that hot any more -- because the heat transferred into the sawdust.
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December 9th, 2011 at 2:11:32 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

I had several conversations about mate. Some professed it had great health benefits, and others said they knew it was unhealthy, but they liked it too much to cut back.



Wikipedia article seems to be a draw on the subject. It implies that

Health effects that are good are the antioxidants and lowers cholesterol. It inhibits the the proliferation of oral cancer cells, but limited evidence showing an association between esophageal cancer and hot mate drinking. One study found an increased risk for lung cancer. Another study associated mate drinking with the development of non-Hodgkin lymphoma. It shares the bad effect of caffeine with other drinks.

While coffee is a social drink in America, it is also a personal drink. The article implies that mate is mostly social in Argentina.

I remember being in the Gulf Arab states, and they treat coffee as an extremely important social drink. We were advised not to refuse coffee, as it would be considered an extreme social snub. The traffic roundabout outside the Hilton had a giant statue of a coffee urn in the center.
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December 9th, 2011 at 2:29:45 PM permalink
Quote: pacomartin

While coffee is a social drink in America, it is also a personal drink. The article implies that mate is mostly social in Argentina.



I've read that in other sources, and disagree. Yes, I did see friends sitting in a park drinking maté. However, lots of times I saw somebody by him/herself drinking it. Especially shopkeepers. The gal who showed me around said she liked to drink it with friends, but drank it on her own too, to stay awake to study.
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December 9th, 2011 at 4:13:54 PM permalink
Quote: Nareed

Too literal. You might say "Suelta mi yogurt o te pegaré," but it sounds wrong.



I was thinking about Nareed's comment.

In English we tend to use either the present or the present progressive for the near future.

After dinner, I am exercising to lose some weight. (present progressive tense describing an action planned for the near future)
After dinner, I will exercise to lose some weight. (future tense).

The second sentence might easily be described as "too literal". It is correct grammar, but it sounds somewhat stilted.

It's the same in Spanish. The future tense (either the inflected verbs or the voy,vas,va,vamos,van + infinitive future) is not commonly used for the "near future".
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December 9th, 2011 at 6:40:41 PM permalink
Quote: pacomartin


After dinner, I am exercising to lose some weight. (present progressive tense describing an action planned for the near future)
After dinner, I will exercise to lose some weight. (future tense).



I would say it the second way. The first way sounds like bad English to me, although I know that usage is not uncommon.
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December 9th, 2011 at 7:13:39 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Quote: pacomartin


After dinner, I am exercising to lose some weight. (present progressive tense describing an action planned for the near future)
After dinner, I will exercise to lose some weight. (future tense).



I would say it the second way. The first way sounds like bad English to me, although I know that usage is not uncommon.



Just looking through some English as a Second Language webpages. Sometimes they don't use the term near future, but instead imminent future.

example.
I'm coming, just let me tie my shoes. as opposed to
I will come, just let me tie my shoes.

of course
I will be there, just let me tie my shoes. works just as well.

Examples given in the 501 Spanish verb book where the action is in the near future:
My brother arrives tomorrow. (present tense in English)
Shall we listen to a recording now? (future tense in English)

The present tense is used is in Spanish.
Mi hermano llega mañana.
¿Escuchamos un disco ahora?


Of course, "My brother will arrive tomorrow." is not incorrect. It's just that you are more likely to say it the first way.
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December 9th, 2011 at 9:43:53 PM permalink
As a student of both languages, have you ever considered hosting a thread on the English word of the day?

I also say "My brother arrives tomorrow." is not proper English. I would say "will arrive," or "shall arrive." Yes, lots of people speak that way, but that doesn't make it right. Then again, I could be wrong. That is why I have to pay a proofreader.
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December 10th, 2011 at 4:41:58 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

I also say "My brother arrives tomorrow." is not proper English.


I chose the sentence from a book by Dr. Chris Kendris who holds a BA, and an MA from Columbia University, a MA and a PhD from Northwestern, two additional degrees from the Sorbonne and who was the translator at the State Department in Paris. I didn't want there to be a dispute. But of course, My brother will arrive tomorrow. is also proper English.

In any case, the future tense is not used very much (either the inflected form or the va,vas,va,vamos,van + infinitive form). Try looking through some newspaper articles. These opening paragraphs are from a CNN article about the new Apple Store in Central Station in New York.

I see only one use of the future tense, and it is for a very specific case. Interestingly we don't use the future tense in English here. Do you see others?

Quote: (CNN)


Apple sorprende con su "Grand Store" en la estación central de Nueva York

Este viernes, cuando Apple dé a conocer su nueva tienda, los neoyorquinos tendrán un primer vistazo de la arquitectura clásica con una tienda minorista de computadoras y otros gadgets dentro de la terminal Grand Central.

Detrás de la fachada negra temporal, que durante semanas ostentó letreros de “llegará pronto”, Apple estuvo negociando agresiva y sigilosamente con los contratistas y las agencias del gobierno para asegurar rápidamente un trato favorable. La Apple Store de Grand Central es sólo una de las varias tiendas de alto perfil que la empresa prepara con su característico anonimato.

Las entrevistas con casi dos docenas de personas que participant en el desarrollo de las próximas tiendas y de las más recientes en Estados Unidos incluyen la de la terminal Grand Central, ofrecen una visión a la inusual cautela de Apple en su forma de hacer negocios. Estas personas dicen que Apple algunas veces emplea tácticas legales poco comunes, se niega a dar su nombre en los documentos públicos y en las audiencias y hace que los funcionarios del gobierno de la ciudad prometan guarder el secreto.

Las astutas tácticas de Apple para negociar son muy conocidas en otras áreas de su negocio. Los acuerdos de confidencialidad se hacen cumplir estrictamente con los empleados, contratistas y socios, y el castigo por la deslealtad es rápido e implacable.

Por ejemplo, pueden despedir a los empleados que filtran memorandos internos tan pronto los descubren. Cuando los prototipos del iPhone se perdieron en bares durante dos años consecutivos, la policía registró las casas de las personas de quienes sospechaba que los tenían.



  1. sorprende
  2. conocer
  3. tendrán
  4. ostentó
  5. llegará
  6. estuvo negociando
  7. asegurar
  8. es
  9. prepara
  10. ofrecen
  11. hacer
  12. dicen
  13. emplea
  14. se niega
  15. a dar
  16. hace
  17. prometan
  18. guarder
  19. negociar
  20. son
  21. se hacen
  22. cumplir
  23. pueden
  24. despedir
  25. filtran
  26. perdieron
  27. registró
  28. quienes
  29. tenían
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December 10th, 2011 at 6:54:43 AM permalink
Thanks. No further comment from me on the future tense, in either idioma.

Fecha: 10 de Deciembre, 2011
Linda: Sonreír = to smile.
Feo: Lengua = tongue.

Ejemplo time:

Le sonreí. Entonces ella le sacó la lengua a mí. = I smiled at her. So, she stuck her tongue out at me.
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December 10th, 2011 at 9:06:41 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Thanks. No further comment from me on the future tense, in either idioma.

Fecha: 10 de Deciembre, 2011
Linda: Sonreír = to smile.
Feo: Lengua = tongue.

Ejemplo time:

Le sonreí. Entonces ella le sacó la lengua a mí. = I smiled at her. So, she stuck her tongue out at me.



Related words
reír = to laugh (verb)
sonreír = to smile (verb)
risa = laugh (noun)
sonrisa = smile (noun)
sonriente = smiling (adjective)



While English retains expression like mother tongue for language, most of the time we use language, but Spanish uses the same word lengua consistently for both the organ and language.

A famous geographic feature in Bahamas near Florida is a deepwater trench surrounded by shallow reefs. It is known as the Tongue of the Ocean. I do not know if the word is used in Spanish for tongue shaped geographic features.

=====================
One final comment on the future tense. The sign in English Coming Soon does not use the future tense, which would be Will Come Soon. However, the future was used in Spanish.
Nareed
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December 11th, 2011 at 5:08:44 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Le sonreí. Entonces ella le sacó la lengua a mí. = I smiled at her. So, she stuck her tongue out at me.



This is going to be hard....

1) Your ejemplo makes no sense. I won't even try to tell you what you said.

2) The right way to say it doesn't make sense either :)

"Entonces ella ME sacó la lengua."

Literally this means "she stuck my tongue out." And that makes no sense. But that's how people say it anyway. Properly speaking, the phrase should be "ella me sacó su lengua," but no one says it that way.
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December 11th, 2011 at 5:14:30 AM permalink
Quote: pacomartin

While English retains expression like mother tongue for language, most of the time we use language, but Spanish uses the same word lengua consistently for both the organ and language.



Yes and no.

An English speaker might say "Of course Nareed is fluent in Spanish. It's her native tongue."

A Spanish speaker would say "Por supuesto que Paco habla bien Inglés. Es su idioma natal."

Point being in Spanish the word "idioma" is used for "language" far more often than "lengua." I estimate "lenguaje" comes in second. What may seem to skew the stats is the Real Academia de la LENGUA Española.
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December 11th, 2011 at 5:46:07 AM permalink
Quote: Nareed

I estimate "lenguaje" comes in second.



The DRAE defines lengüeta (Del dim. de lengua).
1. f. epiglotis.
2. f. Fiel de la balanza, y más propiamente el de la romana.

The second definition seems to say "faithful balance, more properly of the Romans". I feel stupid, because that makes no sense to me.
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December 11th, 2011 at 5:46:23 AM permalink
Quote: Nareed

I estimate "lenguaje" comes in second.



The DRAE defines lengüeta (Del dim. de lengua).
1. f. epiglotis.
2. f. Fiel de la balanza, y más propiamente el de la romana.

The second definition seems to say "faithful balance, more properly of the Romans". I feel stupid, because that makes no sense to me.
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December 11th, 2011 at 6:03:01 AM permalink
Quote: pacomartin

The DRAE defines lengüeta (Del dim. de lengua).
1. f. epiglotis.
2. f. Fiel de la balanza, y más propiamente el de la romana.

The second definition seems to say "faithful balance, more properly of the Romans". I feel stupid, because that makes no sense to me.



It makes no sense to me, either. But I feel the DRAE people are stupid for putting in such a definition :)

Further investigation reveals that "fiel" used as a noun can mean "the needle in a balance scale," and that "romana" is a type of balance scale. So it's not that stupid. But in an online dictionary, theres hould be a link to "fiel" and "romana" in this case.
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pacomartin
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December 11th, 2011 at 6:53:48 AM permalink
Quote: Nareed

Further investigation reveals that "fiel" used as a noun can mean "the needle in a balance scale," and that "romana" is a type of balance scale.



Wow! I would have never figured that out in a thousand years. So that is a very obscure word. It's like the question: "What is an aglet."

Nareed
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December 11th, 2011 at 7:03:57 AM permalink
Quote: pacomartin

Wow! I would have never figured that out in a thousand years. So that is a very obscure word. It's like the question: "What is an aglet."



The plastic or metal thingy at the ends of a shoe lace. The Question has been brought up before...

Don't underestimate what you can learn from cartoons :)

BTW the Spanish term for shoelace is "agujeta." You can see the root word is related to "aglet." But "aglet" ins Spanish is "herrete" (I just found that out). The root there is "hierro" meaning "iron."
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December 11th, 2011 at 11:46:31 AM permalink
I knew what an aglet was.

Sorry to change the topic, but I've been meaning to bring this up since I got back from Argentina. Through most of my teenage years I bred guinea pigs. Five generations of them. I'd like to say I had a small business going, selling the babies to pet stores, but I spent a lot more on food than I made from the sales. Many stories of my childhood involve guinea pigs. Once in a while, while torturing somebody with my terrible Spanish, I had the need to say guinea pig. For decades I have not been sure of the correct word for them in Spanish, and I'm still not positive.

My dictionary says the correct term is conejillo de Indias. This is also what my tutor says. However, recall the word for a rabbit is conejo. So conejillo de Indias would mean little Indian rabbit. No, guinea pigs are not rabbits. They are both in the rodent family, but that is as close as they get.

I've heard others call them ratas, but that is the word for rats. A guinea pig is not a rat either, and I'm sure they are insulted at being called that.

So, when walking around Tigre I passed by a tienda de mascotes (pet store). Being the animal lover that I am, I was curious to see what pets Argentine people liked. Low and behold, I saw this:



So, is coballo the correct term? I've never even heard that one before. Like the word for horse, caballo, but with an o instead of an a as the second letter. The word isn't even in my Spanish dictionary.

Strange it would be so hard to get at the answer, as Peru is crawling with the things.
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Nareed
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December 11th, 2011 at 12:47:31 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

My dictionary says the correct term is conejillo de Indias. This is also what my tutor says.



Your tutor is right.

Quote:

However, recall the word for a rabbit is conejo. So conejillo de Indias would mean little Indian rabbit. No, guinea pigs are not rabbits.



All that is so. And all that is irrelevant. A sea horse isn't a horse, either. A butterfly isn't a fly and it doesn't contain butter (ha ha). Fr that matter, a guinea pig isn't a pig.

Quote:

So, when walking around Tigre I passed by a tienda de mascotes (pet store).



Tienda de mascotAs

Quote:

So, is coballo the correct term? I've never even heard that one before.



It might be. I've heard it before. Hamsters are often referred to by that term, too. I mean, it might be a correct term. but overall "conejillo de indias" is the most widely used term.

BTW, the dictionary says it's spelled "cobaYo." The definition is given as "conejillo de indias." :)

According to Wikipedia (yes, I know) the species is native to South America. That makes the Spanish name appropriate, as the Americas were known as "las Indias Occidentales."
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December 11th, 2011 at 1:31:28 PM permalink
Quote: Nareed

And all that is irrelevant. A sea horse isn't a horse, either. A butterfly isn't a fly and it doesn't contain butter (ha ha). Fr that matter, a guinea pig isn't a pig.



Fair point. However, a sea horse looks like a horse, at least the neck and the head, a butter fly flies (granted, I don't know there the "butter" part comes from), and as the legend goes, when guinea pigs were imported to England they sold for one guinea each.

By the way, another one of my many unanswered questions is why does a pound sterling equal to 21 guineas. Why not 20? Was there something special about 21? In every currency as you move up in denomination you usually go in ratios of 2 and 5.
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December 11th, 2011 at 3:01:20 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Fair point. However, a sea horse looks like a horse, at least the neck and the head, a butter fly flies (granted, I don't know there the "butter" part comes from), and as the legend goes, when guinea pigs were imported to England they sold for one guinea each.

By the way, another one of my many unanswered questions is why does a pound sterling equal to 21 guineas. Why not 20? Was there something special about 21? In every currency as you move up in denomination you usually go in ratios of 2 and 5.



The pound sterling silver and the gold guinea were commodity money and not fiat money when they originated. As such they floated against one another as the relative values of the metals changed. You may remember from your American history of the huge economic problems as America tried to force a fixed exchange rate between gold and silver, and the real market rate varied. One currency or the other would be widely spurned.

The guinea is a coin that was minted in 1663. It was the first English machine-struck gold coin, originally worth one pound sterling, equal to twenty shillings; but rises in the price of gold caused the value of the guinea to increase, at times to as high as thirty shillings. For the last century of its existence its value was officially fixed at twenty-one shillings. When the UK adopted the gold standard in 1816, guinea became a colloquial term.

Andrew Zimmern eats grilled Cuyes in Ecuador where they are the national dish.
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December 11th, 2011 at 4:21:00 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

and as the legend goes, when guinea pigs were imported to England they sold for one guinea each.



Maybe. But they're not pigs.

I'm guessing "cobayo" is either the indigenous name of the critters, or how the Spaniards pronounced the indigenous name. The Spaniards were notorious for mispronouncing beyond recognition, literally (sorry DG), many native anmes. For example, they turned "Huitzilopochco" into "Churubusco."
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pacomartin
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December 11th, 2011 at 4:40:38 PM permalink
Quote: Nareed

I'm guessing "cobayo" is either the indigenous name of the critters, or how the Spaniards pronounced the indigenous name. The Spaniards were notorious for mispronouncing beyond recognition, literally (sorry DG), many native anmes. For example, they turned "Huitzilopochco" into "Churubusco."



It probably cam from the Tupi word çabuia. What may have complicated the translation was that the Tupi primarily came into contact with the Portuguese, not the Spanish. So the word may have be a polyglot of both Tupi and Portuguese.



The Ecuadorean (i.e. Quechuan indian) word, cuyes is an Onomatopoeia, like "woof woof" and "moo". The name imitates the sound these animals make.

The custom of dressing them up like little people, and then grilling them afterwards seems particularly barbaric.

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December 11th, 2011 at 4:43:57 PM permalink
Do the Spanish people here who write such good English,
think in Spanish or in English. I've heard that once you're
thinking in the new language instead of the old one, you've
really accomplished something.
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December 11th, 2011 at 5:03:17 PM permalink
Quote: pacomartin

The custom of dressing them up like little people, and then grilling them afterwards seems particularly barbaric.



You have a disturbing affinity for gruesome pictures...

Having said that, your average cabrito restaurant in Monterrey an other northern cities will display dead baby goats, headless, being cooked.
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December 11th, 2011 at 5:03:53 PM permalink
Quote: Nareed

But they're not pigs.



I forgot to address that. They are called guinea pigs because the sold for one guinea each and squeal like a pig.

Paco, you seem to have a penchant for pictures of food others find disgusting. As a lover of guinea pigs I find the image ... disturbing. Then again, I'm not a vegetarian, so perhaps I'm being a hypocrite to complain about it.

To make matters worse, that guinea pig in the second picture looks like Tuck from the Wonder Pets, which my kids used to enjoy.

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December 11th, 2011 at 6:34:50 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Paco, you seem to have a penchant for pictures of food others find disgusting. As a lover of guinea pigs I find the image ... disturbing. Then again, I'm not a vegetarian, so perhaps I'm being a hypocrite to complain about it.



I didn't grow up that way. I wouldn't eat any kind of casserole, or jello. I bought sushi for my mother and she took it home in a doggie bag and cooked it. It's something that I got from traveling around the world.

I was forced to eat some exotic food in 11th grade on a trip to Columbia South America. After a while you tend to seek it out. It can be an obsession. Andrew Zimmern has a whole show about it called Bizarre Foods on Travel Channel. The grilled cuyes are considered the national dish in Ecuador.

I've pretty much gotten over worrying about how a food looks, but certain textures still send me over the edge. I still get violently ill if I try and eat canned peas.

On the episode in Ecuador where he tries the Guinea pig (4th one in the series almost four years ago), Andrew Zimmern also has cow's stomach lining, and heart, lemon ants, piranha, coconut grubs, and chicha (a drink). He also has an empanada, which seems pretty commonplace. Of course, I am not sure what it contained.
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December 11th, 2011 at 6:55:43 PM permalink
Quote: pacomartin

I still get violently ill if I try and eat canned peas.



"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
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December 11th, 2011 at 7:11:47 PM permalink
Quote: pacomartin

I still get violently ill if I try and eat canned peas.



Who doesn't? Most canned vegetables are yucky. The only exceptions I can think offhand are corn kernels and chiles en vinagre.

So, have you tried durian?
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December 11th, 2011 at 7:29:13 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard



Gag me with a spoon! I'm serious, just the smell of canned peas makes me dry heave.

I have not tried Durian. Anthony Bourdain, says if you eat durian Your breath will smell as if you'd been French-kissing your dead grandmother. which is one of the worst recommendations from a food critic I have ever heard. But I am more willing to try durian than I am to eat canned peas.

Fresh or frozen peas, on the other hand, I love.
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December 11th, 2011 at 7:52:40 PM permalink
Canned beans are good. Everything else tastes like dishwater.
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December 11th, 2011 at 10:36:06 PM permalink
Okay, enough about coballos y guisantes de latas. Time for new palabras lindos y feos del día.

Fea: Zanahoria (carrot)
Linda: Perfectamente (perfectly)

Ejemplo time.

Este zanahoria se cree crece cultiva perfectamente. = This carrot was grown perfectly.

I know I didn't get this one right, but I don't know why, yet.
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