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Nareed
Nareed
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June 1st, 2011 at 11:11:58 AM permalink
Quote: pacomartin

Nareed, I don't know if you have seen the type of bananas in our supermarkets. They are picked green, and ripened in special rooms in the USA filled with ethylene gas. It gives them an unnatural bright yellow peel. In America the firmer, starchier fruit are called plantains. Although American's sometimes cook with bananas (most often in bread), it's not nearly as common as in Mexico.



I have. they look just like the ones we get here. Though here it's more common to sell them still a bit green, since they will ripen over a week or so.

I don't like bananas in my food. In fact, I don't like any kind of fruit served with any dish other than desert, and then I'm picky. So count your blessings. I do like banana bread and I love banana cream pie.
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teddys
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June 1st, 2011 at 11:21:29 AM permalink
Quote: pacomartin

Nareed, I don't know if you have seen the type of bananas in our supermarkets. They are picked green, and ripened in special rooms in the USA filled with ethylene gas. It gives them an unnatural bright yellow peel. In America the firmer, starchier fruit are called plantains. Although American's sometimes cook with bananas (most often in bread), it's not nearly as common as in Mexico.


Another food question: How do Mexicans deal with having the same word -- limón -- for lemons AND limes? Aren't they different fruits? Or does nobody really request the yellow lemons there?
"Dice, verily, are armed with goads and driving-hooks, deceiving and tormenting, causing grievous woe." -Rig Veda 10.34.4
Wizard
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Wizard
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June 1st, 2011 at 11:23:07 AM permalink
Quote: Nareed

I do like banana bread and I love banana cream pie.



Are you a glotón for it?
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
Nareed
Nareed
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June 1st, 2011 at 11:34:50 AM permalink
Quote: teddys

Another food question: How do Mexicans deal with having the same word -- limón -- for lemons AND limes? Aren't they different fruits? Or does nobody really request the yellow lemons there?



That's a complicated one.

Limón means the small, green or yellow-green, very sour citrus fruit known as lime in America. but there are varieties. The most common are agrio (sour) and sin semilla (seedless), both of which qualify as lime in the US. But other less common varieties include persa (persian) which is bigger, not so sour and looks more yellow than green.

Then there's something called lima. It's yellow, rather big, sort of sweet and sour, but not very juicy. You don't see it much. When I hear "lime" I think of lima (which also means nail or metal file, BTW).

So there.

We do make lemonade (limonada, imagine that) with the common lemons you call lime. Lemonade isn't very popular, but frozen in a popsicle it is a rather big seller. I like doing a little lemonade from time to time. I throw in some water, splenda and three or four whole limes cut in quarters, belnd until smooth, and strain the whole with the finest strainer you can get. Serve over ice. It goes well with vodka, too. But the result is less sweet and much more sour than American lemonade.

A mix of orange juice, water and sugar, BTW, is called naranjada.
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pacomartin
pacomartin
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June 1st, 2011 at 9:30:42 PM permalink
Fecha: 2 de Juno, 2011
Palabra del día: dejar


I thought I would pick one word (I don't have to be the only one for today).

The verb "dejar" is a regular "ar" verb with some unusual idiomatic meanings. It is also a very common verb in conversation or on signs. It is defined as "to let", "to permit", "to allow", or "to leave.

Related words:
déjelo! is the imperitive mood compounded with the pronoun lo. It means "Let go!" or "leave it".
Question for Nareed: Google says you can also say "lo dejas!", but I've never heard anyone say it this way.
Question for Nareed 2: In English we often say "Let it go!" if we want to discontinue a line of conversation. I am not sure of the Spanish equvalent.


el dejo A related noun for "abandonment"
dejado / dejada A related adjective for "abandoned" or "dejected"

dejar caer a double infinitive "to let" and "to fall" translated as "to let fall" or "to drop"


Important idiomatic use of the verb with "de"
dejar de ... (infinitive of verb)
In this idiomatic usage, instead of permitting something, you are saying just the opposite. It now means "to stop" ... something


These patches can be useful to stop smoking.

Second example "dejar de masticar chicle" means "stop chewing the gum"

It is a curious translation since "dejar" means "allow, to let , to permit",
while the related nouns are about abandonment.
At the same time the idiomatic "dejar de" means to stop and to quit. Literally it is like you are saying "abandon your practice of chewing gum".

So if you see a sign that says "dejar de fumar", it does not mean you are permitted to smoke, but instead you must "abandon smoking" (i.e. you are not permitted to smoke).
Wizard
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Wizard
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June 1st, 2011 at 10:39:54 PM permalink
Good word. I welcome the adición. Let's see what Nareed has to say. Even if Nareed can explain it, I'll enjoy torturing my Spanish tutor over why dejar can mean to permit and to forbid as well. Soy horrible.

Don't let this one interrupt a pattern I'm trying to do since Tuesday.

Quote: pacomartin

Fecha: 2 de Juno, 2011



Isn't it Junio?
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
pacomartin
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June 1st, 2011 at 11:46:58 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Good word. I welcome the adición. Let's see what Nareed has to say. Even if Nareed can explain it, I'll enjoy torturing my Spanish tutor over why dejar can mean to permit and to forbid as well. Soy horrible.

Don't let this one interrupt a pattern I'm trying to do since Tuesday.

Quote: pacomartin

Fecha: 2 de Juno, 2011



Isn't it Junio?


Yes, I misspelled it.

It ties in with your earlier question about when to use "de" which we usually translate by "of". In this particular idiomatic use, I can't think how you would use the English word "of".

Here are some other examples:
No puedo dejar de amarte =I can not stop loving you
No dejo amarte= I keep loving you

deja vivir = let live
dejar de vivir = stop living
vivo y deja vivir = live and let live

It's always puzzled me, and I have spent some time searching the web for a decent explanation, but usually sites say that is simply the idiom. It is a little like an English speaker saying "I let you to do some practice", and alternatively saying "I insist you let go of this practice" when they mean the opposite.

In Oaxaca they will teach you Spanish, but usually the teacher's don't know English. If they do know some English, the school does not permit them to use it.
Wizard
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Wizard
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June 2nd, 2011 at 6:32:42 AM permalink
I don't think you need the de to change the meaning of dejar from permit to leave behind. Here are some ejemplos from spanishdict.com.

dejar a alguien en algún sitio -> to drop somebody off somewhere (con el coche)
dejar algo por imposible -> to give something up as a lost cause
dejar a alguien atrás -> to leave somebody behind
su marido la ha dejado -> her husband has left her
te dejo, tengo que irme -> I have to leave you now, I must go

Quote: Paco

At the same time the idiomatic "dejar de" means to stop and to quit. Literally it is like you are saying "abandon your practice of chewing gum".



I'm not one to question you, but based on other usages I would translate dejar de fumar as "you are able to stop smoking," rather than a command to stop.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
pacomartin
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June 2nd, 2011 at 6:37:05 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

I don't think you need the de to change the meaning of dejar from permit to leave behind. Here are some ejemplos from



No voy a dejar que nadie te lastime. - I'm not going to let (Permit/Allow) anyone hurt you.
Dejame ir a la casa de Amanda. - Let (Permit/Allow) me go to Amanda's house!

It's a complicated verb. They do have Permitir and Abandonar as well which are identical to their English meanings.


Déjala aquí - Leave it here.

Déjala en paz - Leave her in peace. or Leave her alone.

Déjame ver - Let me see. Allow (permit) me to see.
Nareed
Nareed
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June 2nd, 2011 at 6:46:32 AM permalink
Quote: pacomartin

No dejo amarte= I keep loving you



Not quite.

No dejo amarte means "I don't allow to love you," which makes no sense. No dejo DE amarte means "I don't stop loving you."

Quote:

vivo y deja vivir = live and let live



Vive y deja vivir.

Your example says "I live and you let live."

Quote:

In Oaxaca they will teach you Spanish, but usually the teacher's don't know English. If they do know some English, the school does not permit them to use it.



That's quite absurd. My first try at learning English was with a native speaker who didn't know Spanish. I had mediocre results. I did a lot better with a native Spanish speaker who knew English well, and further knew how to explain the diferences in both languages. But then the man was a gifted teacher.
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