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pacomartin
pacomartin
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May 31st, 2011 at 11:09:32 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Thank you for not posting the movie poster directly on the site, and keeping things PG-13 around here.



I am keeping it PG-13. Ripstein is probably the most honored director in Mexico, but his films can be very disturbing Nuevo Cine Mexicano.
Wizard
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June 1st, 2011 at 7:42:00 AM permalink
Fecha: 1 de Junio, 2011
Palabra del día: GULA


The word for the day is gula = gluttony. A variant is Glotón = glutton. Another word for gluttony is glotonería. I'm not sure what the difference is, but suspect that gula specifically refers to food, while glotonería can be a excessive desire for anything. I'm sure Paco or Nareed can explain it much better.

Time for some ejemplos.

Tengo un problema de gula en el buffet. = I have a gluttony problem in the buffet.



El Skipper es un glotón de pasteles de crema de banano. = The Skipper is a glutton for banana creme pies.
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Nareed
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June 1st, 2011 at 7:46:52 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

I'm sure Paco or Nareed can explain it much better.



Sorry. Those are seldom used words. Offhand I can't recall using them. I must ahve, I just don't recall doing it.

Quote:

Tengo un problema gula en el buffet. = I have a gluttony problem in the buffet.



"...problema DE gula...."

Quote:

El Skipper es un glotón de pasteles de crema de banano. = The Skipper is a glutton for banana creme pies.



"El capitán es un glotón con los ..." That is, unless his given name is "Skipper." I always thought it was a title.
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pacomartin
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June 1st, 2011 at 8:19:02 AM permalink
Quote: Nareed

Quote:

Tengo un problema gula en el buffet. = I have a gluttony problem in the buffet.


"...problema DE gula...."



The rules of English grammar let us use all sorts of nouns and phrases as adjectives. In that way, Spanish isn't quite so flexible.

In English we may say, "a ten-year-old boy," in Spanish that becomes "a boy of ten years".

In English, we may say something like "a gold ring," using what is normally a noun, "gold," as an adjective. In Spanish you say "a ring of gold".

So we say "una muchacho de dies años" or "un anillo de oro".

You did the same thing. You used "gluttony" which is a noun, and made it an adjective. While that is legal in English, you need the preposition in Spanish.

Possession works the same way.
"Mike's house" is acceptable in English, but in Spanish you must literally translate "the house of Mike".

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The same difficulty in translation is in the preposition "con" which is normally translated as "with". The sentence becomes "The skipper is a glutton with banana creme pies." But similar to "de" the preoposition "con" is more flexible than the English "with".

=============
Articles and prepositions are a real problem in Spanish since they are very important to clear sentences. However, they are very difficult since they don't have unique translations. In particular "por" and "para" are usually both translated as "for" in English. Sometimes you have to learn the verb-preposition pair.
Wizard
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June 1st, 2011 at 8:34:39 AM permalink
Quote: Nareed

"...problema DE gula...."



The last few times I have used Google Translate to help with my translations. Since then, you've corrected me a lot less. I also would have used a "de" in this case, but Google omitted it. If there are any hard and fast rules about when you use a "de" between a noun and adjective, I'm all ears. So far I've just been going by feel. Another good question is why the two uses of de in pasteles de crema de banano, which is how Google translated banana creme pie.

Edit: I see that Paco addresses my question already above.

Quote: Nareed

"El capitán es un glotón con los ..." That is, unless his given name is "Skipper." I always thought it was a title.



His name on the show was Jonas Grumby, but I think that was only mentioned in the radio broadcast in the pilot episode. Since then, he has always been referred to as "the Skipper." While it isn't literally his name, it was used so often that I think it takes on the proper noun status of a name. I'd be interested to know of the Spanish translation of the show uses Skipper or Capitan.
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Nareed
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June 1st, 2011 at 8:38:33 AM permalink
Quote: pacomartin

Articles and prepositions are a real problem in Spanish since they are very important to clear sentences.



I'll tell you what I did when learning English: watch TV and/or movies in Spanish and read magazines and books in spanish. that's the best way to see and hear how the language is actually used.

BTW I let the Wizrd get away with "banano." It's correct, after all, but in Mexico the word elicits smiles. You'll be understood, but the word most often used is "plátano."

Oh, wait. I guess I didn't after all :P
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Nareed
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June 1st, 2011 at 8:46:49 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

The last few times I have used Google Translate to help with my translations.



Machine translations are no more than a first approximation. Now. in the past they were laughable.

Quote:

Since then, you've corrected me a lot less. I also would have used a "de" in this case, but Google omitted it. If there are any hard and fast rules about when you use a "de" between a noun and adjective, I'm all ears.



I'm not clear on any rules. Look for ten general examples and post them here (ten is a suggestion, five may do also)

Quote:

I'd be interested to know of the Spanish translation of the show uses Skipper or Capitan.



He was called "capitán" when addressed by someone, and "el capitán" when being referred to.

Capitán literally emans "captain" as in the military rank, but also as the commanding officer of a boat or ship, which is what I gather "skipper means in English. I know in the US Navy most warships have a Commander on top, smaller ships often have Lieutenants. I also know the Navy has a rank structure different from the other services'.
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Wizard
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June 1st, 2011 at 9:35:34 AM permalink
Quote: Nareed

Capitán literally emans "captain" as in the military rank, but also as the commanding officer of a boat or ship, which is what I gather "skipper means in English. I know in the US Navy most warships have a Commander on top, smaller ships often have Lieutenants. I also know the Navy has a rank structure different from the other services'.



Point taken. However, forgive me if I don't go back and edit my original sentence with the word Skipper. Someone with more nautical experience could speak to this better, but I think "skipper" is an informal way of saying Captain, and implies being in charge of a smaller boat. "Captain" sounds a lot more serious. The character on Gilligan's Island was usually friendly and easy going, except when he got angry at Gilligan, so "Skipper" fits him well. I think if you said the word skipper to any American between the ages of 40 and 60 an image of the Skipper would come immediately to mind. So, out of respect, I really hate to change it, as it loses something in the translation (I've always wanted to say that -- it sounds so snooty!).
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
Nareed
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June 1st, 2011 at 10:23:56 AM permalink
Quote: Nareed

Nareed, sorry I accidentally messed up your post. -- Wiz



Accidentally or "accidentally"' Fess up! :P

Briefly, if you say to a mexican "The Skipper...." whiel showing them that photo, they'll think you're using el capitan's real name.

BTW I watched that show dubbed back in elementary school. A few years later I had a chance to watch it in English during Mexico's Golden Age of cable. Same thing with other shows I liked. That's when I really strated to hate dubbing.

But I digress...
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pacomartin
pacomartin
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June 1st, 2011 at 10:46:31 AM permalink
Quote: Nareed

Watch TV and/or movies in Spanish and read magazines and books in spanish. that's the best way to see and hear how the language is actually used.

BTW I let the Wizrd get away with "banano." It's correct, after all, but in Mexico the word elicits smiles. You'll be understood, but the word most often used is "plátano."



Nareed, I don't know if you have seen the type of bananas in our supermarkets. They are picked green, and ripened in special rooms in the USA filled with ethylene gas. It gives them an unnatural bright yellow peel. In America the firmer, starchier fruit are called plantains. Although American's sometimes cook with bananas (most often in bread), it's not nearly as common as in Mexico.

----------------
One problem with machine translation, or dictionary translation is something called "word pair association". A culture naturally does it, but it isn't based on any hard reasons. For instance you could look up the word eccentric and find the following synonyms - aberrant, abnormal, anomalous, bizarre, capricious, characteristic, cockeyed, crazy, curious, droll, erratic, far out, flaky, freak, freakish, funny, idiosyncratic, irregular, kooky, nutty, odd, oddball, off the wall, off-center, offbeat, out in left field, outlandish, peculiar, quaint, queer, quirky, quizzical, singular, strange, uncommon, unconventional, unnatural, way out, weird, whimsical, wild, beat*, bent*, and funky* [* = informal/non-formal usage ].

But English speakers have a huge tendency to pair the word eccentric with the noun uncle. Whereas you tend to refer to a cousin with the same characteristics as oddball .

At the same time, you might like your cousin. If you are trying to convince a girl to go on a date with your cousin, you wouldn't use the word oddball, but you might use adjectives like whimsical, slightly outlandish, that he has droll sense of humor, or a unconventional viewpoint. Even English speakers would have trouble explaining why some adjectives can convey that someone is charming like a "Northern Exposure television series" character, while other adjectives like "bizarre" or "unnatural" convey that person as someone you would not want to run into in a secluded place.

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