Spanish word of the day
December 3rd, 2011 at 6:57:55 PM
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Quote: NareedCroissant :)
Speaking of croissants, one of my favorite Spanish words is medialuna = croissant. Actually, terceroluna might be more accurate, but medialuna sounds better, so I won't argue it.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
December 3rd, 2011 at 7:09:55 PM
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Quote: WizardThat thing she is holding I always thought that was called a cornucopia. Any other English or Spanish words with the root cornu in them?
Two horned animals are unicorn and Capricorn.
The word corn as used for piece of "hard skin," is because it seems like an animal horn.
Also the instrument coronet (small horn).
Corned beef so called for the "corns" or grains of salt with which it is preserved; from archaic verb "corn" which means "to salt" (1560s).
December 3rd, 2011 at 7:16:11 PM
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Quote: WizardSpeaking of croissants, one of my favorite Spanish words is medialuna = croissant.
A croissant here is known as "cuernito" meaning "little horn"
BTW it's one of those phony words, or whatever, that Paco likes to dig up. In French (are we getting off topic or what?), it means "crescent."
Quote:Actually, terceroluna might be more accurate, but medialuna sounds better, so I won't argue it.
Lunar phases are measured in quarters. So the crescent Moon in Spanish is called "cuarto creciente." The half Moon is "media Luna," as you pointed out. And the waning Moon is called "cuarto menguante." The New Moon is "Luna Nueva."
I think I've said before that hot dog buns are called "medias noches" in Mexico.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
December 3rd, 2011 at 7:31:34 PM
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Quote: NareedIn French (are we getting off topic or what?), it means "crescent."
Don't tell me you speak French as well? I am trying to figure out how you learn these languages without learning grammar.
Medialuna in Chile
If you do well in the Medialuna, you get one of these:
December 3rd, 2011 at 8:07:24 PM
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Quote: pacomartinDon't tell me you speak French as well?
Hell, no :)
But it's a Romance language, so aspects of it are easy for any Spanish speaker. There are a number of common French words in use over the world, like croissant. And I picked up a few more when I visited Canada in 82. I was in Ontario, but bilungual signage was ubiquitous.
Quote:I am trying to figure out how you learn these languages without learning grammar.
How do you learn grammar without knowing the language?
I know the grammar, just not the terms for every aspect of it. I've an implicit understanding of the rules of grammar, but not an explicit one. You learn that the same way you learn a language: use and practice.
I would like to learn Italian and Latin. It ought to be a cinch. But as of now I only know English and Spanish. Oh, if spoken slowly and using very simple terms, I can understand some Portuguese, too. It's close enough to Spanish for that. I can't speak a word of it, though.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
December 4th, 2011 at 6:34:28 AM
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Quote: NareedI would like to learn Italian and Latin. It ought to be a cinch. But as of now I only know English and Spanish. Oh, if spoken slowly and using very simple terms, I can understand some Portuguese, too. It's close enough to Spanish for that. I can't speak a word of it, though.
I've always had the impression that Spanish, Portuguese, and Italian speakers can eavesdrop on one another, and follow the gist of the conversation.
I don't know if you have ever heard of Interlingua. Interlingua is an international auxiliary language (IAL), developed between 1937 and 1951 by the International Auxiliary Language Association (IALA). It is the most widely used naturalistic IAL: in other words, its vocabulary, grammar and other characteristics are largely derived from natural languages. Interlingua was developed to combine a simple, mostly regular grammar with a vocabulary common to the widest possible range of languages, making it unusually easy to learn, at least for those whose native languages are Romance languages. Interlingua literature maintains that (written) Interlingua is comprehensible to the hundreds of millions of people though it is actively spoken by only a few hundred.
Does this paragraph make sense to you?
Interlingua se ha distachate ab le movimento pro le disveloppamento e le introduction de un lingua universal pro tote le humanitate. Si o non on crede que un lingua pro tote le humanitate es possibile, si o non on crede que interlingua va devenir un tal lingua es totalmente indifferente ab le puncto de vista de interlingua mesme. Le sol facto que importa (ab le puncto de vista de interlingua mesme) es que interlingua, gratias a su ambition de reflecter le homogeneitate cultural e ergo linguistic del occidente, es capace de render servicios tangibile a iste precise momento del historia del mundo. Il es per su contributiones actual e non per le promissas de su adherentes que interlingua vole esser judicate.
December 4th, 2011 at 6:45:21 AM
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Quote: pacomartinI've always had the impression that Spanish, Portuguese, and Italian speakers can eavesdrop on one another, and follow the gist of the conversation.
Italian is a lot closer to Latin than to Spanish. Besides, most Italians in my experience speak at Warp 10 :)
As to Portuguese, all my experience is with Brazilians (in Israel, of all places!). They tend to talk slowly to begin with.
Quote:I don't know if you have ever heard of Interlingua.
There's a language school in Mexico called "Interlingua." As far as I know all they offer are English lessons.
Quote:Does this paragraph make sense to you?
I think so. Some words are rather obscure and I have to guess them in context.
But there's already a universal language. It's called English.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
December 4th, 2011 at 8:17:00 AM
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Quote: pacomartinI don't know if you have ever heard of Interlingua...It is the most widely used naturalistic IAL
Never heard of it. I thought Esperanto was the most widely used made up language.
Here is another picture from Mexico City. Mexico City itself has a long history. In 1325 it was founded as the Aztec capital, known as Tenochtitlan. As the legend goes, somebody was given a vision to build the Aztec capital where they saw a bird fighting with a snake on a cactus. Said event happened on a rock emerging from what once a lake where Mexico City now stands.
This monument can be found just across the street from the Zocalo, I believe in the south-east corner.
The flag of Mexico depicts this moment. Another interesting thing about the flag of Mexico are the dimensions, 4 by 7. Most flags are 3x5 or 2x3. The US flag also breaks with convention at 10x19.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
December 4th, 2011 at 11:24:50 AM
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Quote: WizardNever heard of it. I thought Esperanto was the most widely used made up language. Here is another picture from Mexico City. Mexico City itself has a long history. In 1325 it was founded as the Aztec capital, known as Tenochtitlan. As the legend goes, somebody was given a vision to build the Aztec capital where they saw a bird fighting with a snake on a cactus. Said event happened on a rock emerging from what once a lake where Mexico City now stands.
Esperanto is the most famous artificial language, but it is not naturalistic. There is no chance of understanding Esperanto unless you study the language. Interlingua is based on a simplified grammar, and the vocabulary has to be based on words common to Spanish, Portuguese, French and Italian. In any case, Interlingua has joined Esperanto, and BASIC English to the backwater of history, and now everyone simply tries to learn English, or Voice of America English for a start.
Most of the names of the islands and lake front villages of the region are still preserved in the present day metropolis, even if only as a subway stop.
The dike that divided the freshwater to the West from the brackish water to the East was a miracle of early engineering. It allowed them to grow agriculture on floating islands, and provided artificial ponds for fishing. When Cortez destroyed the dike, he condemned much of the population to starvation.
To the north of the lake, present day Tepeyac, historically known by the name "Tepeyacac" , is the site where Saint Juan Diego met the Virgin of Guadalupe in December of 1531, and received the iconic image of Our Lady of Guadalupe. The Basilica of Guadalupe is located there today as one of the most visited Catholic shrines in the world. The airport would have been completely submerged in the brackish water. Even today a remnant of the lake remains to the East of the airport.
Tenochtitlan, Tlacopan and Texcoco (on the east of the lake, not on the map above) were the famed triple alliance that formed the nucleus of the Aztec Empire. Azcapotzalco was their first conquest. Lake Texcoco referred to the brackish portion of the larger lake.
The founding of Tenochtitlan would have been about 20 years after the death of William Wallace (of the movie Braveheart), and the ascension of Edward Windsor to the English throne, and the subsequent English claim over France.
Tlacopan was also known as Tacuba and is a subway stop to the West, and Azcapotzalco is also a subway stop to the Northwest.
Atlacuihuayan is known as Tacubaya and is a major transportation hub.
Coyoacán is a borough of Mexico city, and also a subway stop.
Chapultepec is known to Americans as "The Halls of Montezuma" in the Marine Corp Anthem. Chapultepec was sacred to the Aztecs, and Moctezuma never built a building with halls, but "Chapultepec Castle" was built after the conquest by the Spanish. Moctezuma was murdered very early in the conquest.
December 4th, 2011 at 1:54:44 PM
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Quote: pacomartinIn any case, Interlingua has joined Esperanto, and BASIC English to the backwater of history,
Among others. I can't recall the names, but I've heard of at least two more. None has ever succeeded and none ever will. The more ordered and logical a synthetic language is, the more certain it is to fail. Languages are logical, but they incorporate paradoxes and irony. And they are messy rather than orderly.
Quote:and now everyone simply tries to learn English, or Voice of America English for a start.
As I said, English is the universal language right now. At some point it was Latin. Earlier on it was Greek. In a few centuries it may still be English, or it may be something else.
Quote:Most of the names of the islands and lake front villages of the region are still preserved in the present day metropolis, even if only as a subway stop.
Many of those names correspond to regions within the city, not just subway stops.
Quote:Chapultepec is known to Americans as "The Halls of Montezuma" in the Marine Corp Anthem. Chapultepec was sacred to the Aztecs, and Moctezuma never built a building with halls,
Wow! You're the first foreigner I know who knows the common name of Moctezuma :) I'm impressed.
Quote:but "Chapultepec Castle" was built after the conquest by the Spanish. Moctezuma was murdered very early in the conquest.
It's also the site of a big battle in the US Mexican War. Interestingly enough, both Robert E, Lee and Ulysses S. Grant fought there as junior officers int he US Army.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
December 5th, 2011 at 5:19:03 PM
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I'm in the process of writing up my visit to Iguazu Falls. Here is a sneak preview of what I had to say about my quest to figure out the difference between a cascada and catarata. I know we've beaten this topic nearly to death here, so I promise this will be the last time I bring it up...for a while.
Spanish Lesson
It seems that in Mexico and the US the preferred word for a waterfall is cascada. However, in my preparations for this trip it seemed that Iguazu Falls was always referred to as Cataratas de Iguazú in Spanish. That leads to the question, what is the difference between a cascada and catarata. Getting at the answer was another goal of my trip.
Before leaving I asked a number of Spanish speakers about this and everyone seems to say they meant the same thing. As someone trying to learn a new language, this is a frequently given answer, and one which I find very frustrating. If two words mean exactly the same thing, why have two of them?
So, once I got there I annoyed everyone who had the misfortune of meeting me about this issue. After annoying the whole city with this question, the consensus seems to be that a cascada is a single waterfall and cataratas refer to a whole bunch of them. There is never just a single catarata. Furthermore, cascada can apply to any waterfall, no matter how small. On the other hand, cataratas is not a word to be used lightly, and only an impressive set of waterfalls is deserving of the title.
While I seemed to clear that up, a new question arose. Individual waterfalls in Iguazu National Park were labeled as saltos. In my discussions with those speaking Mexican Spanish back home the word salto never once came up.
It was clear from context that a salto was an individual waterfall. However, that led to the question of what is the difference between a cascada and a salto? Again, I bothered lots of people about this, being careful not to do so too close to any railings. Languages are not an exact science, and you never get the exact same answer twice. However, the consensus seemed to be that a salto and cascada are the same thing. It is just that in Mexico they say cascada and in Argentina salto. A few people mentioned that frozen waterfalls must get one term of the other, but I don't remember which one, and those professing this opinion didn't sound very convincing.
Spanish Lesson
It seems that in Mexico and the US the preferred word for a waterfall is cascada. However, in my preparations for this trip it seemed that Iguazu Falls was always referred to as Cataratas de Iguazú in Spanish. That leads to the question, what is the difference between a cascada and catarata. Getting at the answer was another goal of my trip.
Before leaving I asked a number of Spanish speakers about this and everyone seems to say they meant the same thing. As someone trying to learn a new language, this is a frequently given answer, and one which I find very frustrating. If two words mean exactly the same thing, why have two of them?
So, once I got there I annoyed everyone who had the misfortune of meeting me about this issue. After annoying the whole city with this question, the consensus seems to be that a cascada is a single waterfall and cataratas refer to a whole bunch of them. There is never just a single catarata. Furthermore, cascada can apply to any waterfall, no matter how small. On the other hand, cataratas is not a word to be used lightly, and only an impressive set of waterfalls is deserving of the title.
While I seemed to clear that up, a new question arose. Individual waterfalls in Iguazu National Park were labeled as saltos. In my discussions with those speaking Mexican Spanish back home the word salto never once came up.
It was clear from context that a salto was an individual waterfall. However, that led to the question of what is the difference between a cascada and a salto? Again, I bothered lots of people about this, being careful not to do so too close to any railings. Languages are not an exact science, and you never get the exact same answer twice. However, the consensus seemed to be that a salto and cascada are the same thing. It is just that in Mexico they say cascada and in Argentina salto. A few people mentioned that frozen waterfalls must get one term of the other, but I don't remember which one, and those professing this opinion didn't sound very convincing.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
December 5th, 2011 at 6:08:40 PM
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Quote: WizardWhile I seemed to clear that up, a new question arose. Individual waterfalls in Iguazu National Park were labeled as saltos. In my discussions with those speaking Mexican Spanish back home the word salto never once came up.
I did mention "salto" but I just got it from a Wikipedia article listing all the possible names for waterfalls around the world. But the word "salto" is very generic. My verb book lists:
(1) un salto = a jump or a leap
(2) un salto de esqui = ski jump
(3) un salto de cisne = swan dive
(4) un salto mortal = somersault
(5) saktar oir = to jump over
Las Cascadas Water Park is a water park, in Aguadilla, Puerto Rico where my aunt and uncle have a house. I have been there. Cascada is also the name of a popular German dance band.
The term catarata is more commonly used to mean "cataracts". It makes sense that you would use it for multiple waterfalls, because cataracts make everything seem blurry.
However, DRAE does define it in the singular as catarata = f. Cascada o salto grande de agua.
It seems to me that in Spanish, as well as English there would be a variety of names for the phenomena of falling water, and they might not always be logical.
The picture is of the Ramsay Cascades Falls in Smoky Mountain Park. That name certainly seems redundant as it contains both Cascades and Falls.
This website groups types of waterfalls are based on how the water falls or passes through it's course, how much water is flowing, the surface beneath it and the geological processes that created it (geomorphology)
Plunge: Water descends vertically, losing contact with the bedrock surface.
Horsetail: Descending water maintains some contact with bedrock.
Cataract: A large, powerful waterfall.
Multi-step: A series of waterfalls one after another of roughly the same size each with its own sunken plunge pool.
Block: Water descends from a relatively wide stream or river.
Cascade: Water descends a series of rock steps.
Segmented: Distinctly separate flows of water form as it descends.
Tiered: Water drops in a series of distinct steps or falls.
Punchbowl: Water descends in a constricted form and then spreads out in a wider pool.
Fan: Water spreads horizontally as it descends while remaining in contact with bedrock.
December 5th, 2011 at 6:40:21 PM
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Now that I think about it, what if a perfectionist learning English asked me what is the difference between a waterfall, fall, and falls. What would I say?
In Yosemite some waterfalls are called a "fall" and others a "falls." For example, there is Bridalvail Fall and Yosemite Falls. Maybe a tiered waterfall (thanks for the defining it above) is a "falls."
I also speculate that waterfall is a general term, but when referring to a specific waterfall by name you say "fall" or "falls." Maybe a good comparison is that "man" is a general term for somebody of the male gender, but you would introduce a specific one as Mr..
On another topic, what is the difference between a gusano y lombriz?
In Yosemite some waterfalls are called a "fall" and others a "falls." For example, there is Bridalvail Fall and Yosemite Falls. Maybe a tiered waterfall (thanks for the defining it above) is a "falls."
I also speculate that waterfall is a general term, but when referring to a specific waterfall by name you say "fall" or "falls." Maybe a good comparison is that "man" is a general term for somebody of the male gender, but you would introduce a specific one as Mr..
On another topic, what is the difference between a gusano y lombriz?
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
December 5th, 2011 at 9:17:13 PM
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Quote: WizardNow that I think about it, what if a perfectionist learning English asked me what is the difference between a waterfall, fall, and falls. What would I say?
In Yosemite some waterfalls are called a "fall" and others a "falls." For example, there is Bridalvail Fall and Yosemite Falls. Maybe a tiered waterfall (thanks for the defining it above) is a "falls."
I also speculate that waterfall is a general term, but when referring to a specific waterfall by name you say "fall" or "falls." Maybe a good comparison is that "man" is a general term for somebody of the male gender, but you would introduce a specific one as Mr..
On another topic, what is the difference between a gusano y lombriz?
A gusano that you eat with Mezcal is really a caterpiller. I've had them in Oaxaca (sorry Nareed!). Remember, they are never added to tequila.
I think lombriz is specifically a ringworm, and most commonly an earthworm.
gusano. (De or. inc.).
1. m. Nombre de las larvas vermiformes de muchos insectos y de las orugas de los lepidópteros.
2. m. lombriz.
3. m. Persona vil y despreciable.
4. m. vulg. oruga (‖ larva de los Lepidópteros).
5. m. Zool. Nombre común que se aplica a animales metazoos, invertebrados, de vida libre o parásitos, de cuerpo blando, segmentado o no y ápodo.
6. m. pl. Zool. En clasificaciones desusadas, taxón de estos animales.
ORTOGR. Escr. con may. inicial.
lombriz. (Del lat. vulg. lumbrix, -īcis).
1. f. Gusano de la clase de los Anélidos, de color blanco o rojizo, de cuerpo blando, cilíndrico, aguzado en el extremo donde está la boca, redondeado en el opuesto, de unos tres decímetros de largo y seis a siete milímetros de diámetro, y compuesto de más de 100 anillos, cada uno de los cuales lleva en la parte inferior varios pelos cortos, rígidos y algo encorvados, que sirven al animal para andar. Vive en terrenos húmedos y ayuda a la formación del mantillo, transformando en parte la tierra que traga para alimentarse, y que expulsa al poco tiempo.
December 5th, 2011 at 9:46:31 PM
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Quote: pacomartinI've had them in Oaxaca (sorry Nareed!).
Contrary to popular belief, it's easier to ask for permission than forgiveness. That green blob on the plate is really disgusting, too...
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December 6th, 2011 at 3:13:54 AM
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Quote: pacomartinA gusano that you eat with Mezcal is really a caterpiller.
I see the word for mix is mezclar. Any connection? Are you supposed to mix Mezcal with something else? You should, because the stuff straight is nasty.
Quote: pacomartinI think lombriz is specifically a ringworm, and most commonly an earthworm.
What I get from SpanishDict.com is that a lombriz is specifically a worm, and a gusano is a more general term for crawly little things, including a maggot, worm, grub, and caterpillar.
I knew Nareed wouldn't like your picture. Your punishment? 40 lashes with a wet lombriz.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
December 6th, 2011 at 6:49:00 AM
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Quote: Wizardgusano is a more general term for crawly little things, including a maggot, worm, grub, and caterpillar. I knew Nareed wouldn't like your picture. Your punishment? 40 lashes with a wet lombriz.
When you order Mezcal con gusano it is specifically the larvae that feeds on the agave plant. They don't put different things in there. Of course, that doesn't mean your statement is wrong. It is consistent with the RAE definition.
They are not as good as the crickets.
Since Nareed does not like guacamole either, I have to conclude that Nareed is a European living in a Mexican's body. There are some Mexicans who eat pasta and rice instead of corn. My grandfather who lived in Spain until his late teens, never ate corn once in his life.
December 6th, 2011 at 7:06:36 AM
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Quote: pacomartinSince Nareed does not like guacamole either, I have to conclude that Nareed is a European living in a Mexican's body.
Try European in a European's body :) My four grandparents came from Poland and Lithuania, both eminently in Europe. I've no idea how long the families go abck there, but surely several centuries.
But that has little to nothing to do with taste. I'm just sensible about textures. My siblings do eat avocado and other inedible stuff.
Quote:There are some Mexicans who eat pasta and rice instead of corn. My grandfather who lived in Spain until his late teens, never ate corn once in his life.
I eat pasta and rice, yes, but I love corn. I don't eat it much because it has a lot of sugar in it. Rice, BTW, is a staple down here. Pasta too, but to a smaller extent.
BTW I can acount for some of my taste in food rather throroughly, but that's a long and boring story.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
December 6th, 2011 at 8:07:47 AM
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Quote: NareedTry European in a European's body :) My four grandparents came from Poland and Lithuania, both eminently in Europe. I've no idea how long the families go abck there, but surely several centuries
Rice, BTW, is a staple down here. Pasta too, but to a smaller extent.
So I take it you would describe yourself as an "Ashkenazi Jew". I have only met one person in my life who introduced himself as Sephardic, but I understand that the term has been broadened to include Jews who follow the Sephardic liturgy, which includes many Middle Easter Jews who had no connection with Iberia.
I often saw rice and pasta with the comida corrida in Oaxaca, but in Tijuana there is only one fine dining restaurant that serves Mexican food. The other ones are strictly French, Italian, Steakhouses, Seafood, or Mediterranean.
Cien Años was the only fine dining restaurant in TJ I ever saw that served exclusively Mexican food.
Cien Años Restaurant abrio sus puertas en el año 1994 y desde entonces gracias a la elecciòn de nuestros clientes y amigos nos han hecho el restaurant, de mas tradiciòn en la ciudad de tijuana estando en las palabras de los mejores criticos como en el New York Times entre otros.
December 6th, 2011 at 8:28:54 AM
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Hoy es Martes, que significa Lupe esta aquí. Ella dice que un lombriz vive en la tierra, y un gusano vive en los arboles.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
December 6th, 2011 at 9:01:17 AM
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I heard Lupe Ontiveros speak in San Diego. She has played a maid on TV, movies, or in the theater over 150 times in a career that stretches over 35 years.
December 6th, 2011 at 10:22:57 AM
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Quote: pacomartinSo I take it you would describe yourself as an "Ashkenazi Jew".
If I must.
Quote:I often saw rice and pasta with the comida corrida in Oaxaca, but in Tijuana there is only one fine dining restaurant that serves Mexican food. The other ones are strictly French, Italian, Steakhouses, Seafood, or Mediterranean.
Overall there are few "fine" Mexican restaurants. There's a widespread notion that real Mexican food is low quality (corriente), and the best is at street stands, street markets, or in backwater towns too poor to have running water.
Take "Los Panchos." It's a middle-high level restaurant that serves some of the best carnitas in town. Sometimes my coworkers go there. But instead of sitting down in the dining room and ordering soup or an apetizer to go with their tacos, they prefer to order just tacos curb-side and eat standing up, balancing their plate precariously in one hand <sigh>
I'm a lot more high maintenance than that, of course ;) So I very seldom join them there.
Anyway, most "fine dining" places tend to be of other types of cuisine.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
December 6th, 2011 at 10:35:26 AM
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Quote: WizardHoy es Martes, que significa Lupe esta aquí. Ella dice que un lombriz vive en la tierra, y un gusano vive en los arboles.
".. LO que significa.... unA lombriz..."
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
December 7th, 2011 at 3:39:59 AM
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What does this expression mean, cayó en la cuenta?
I would take it to mean he/she fell on the check (from a restaurant). However, in the context I'm getting it from it seems to mean "he/she remembered." However, why not just use recordó?
Also, this one, ni caso?
I would take it to mean he/she fell on the check (from a restaurant). However, in the context I'm getting it from it seems to mean "he/she remembered." However, why not just use recordó?
Also, this one, ni caso?
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
December 7th, 2011 at 5:34:04 AM
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Quote: WizardWhat does this expression mean, cayó en la cuenta?
I would take it to mean he/she fell on the check (from a restaurant). However, in the context I'm getting it from it seems to mean "he/she remembered." However, why not just use recordó?
Also, this one, ni caso?
La cuenta has multiple meanings. The DRAE gives 12 definitions. But it is better tranlsated as "the account" then it is as "the check".
While the idiom caer en la cuenta literally means to "fall into the account" it is usually translated into "to realize". If you use 3rd person singular preterite tense (action in the past that is completed), cayó en la cuenta it means "he/she realized".
The idiom ni caso which literally means "or case" seems to have multiple possible translations, but whatever said sarcastically seems to be the closest to the original meaning.
December 7th, 2011 at 9:05:19 AM
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Fecha: 7 de Deciembre, 2011
Estado: Mexico City
Palabra: Piedad
Although we've been talking a lot of Mexico City lately from my pictures, we've never acknowledged it the Estados de México series. This will be the last entry of the series.
According to the United Nations, Mexico City is the fifth largest "urban agglomeration" in the world. Interesting list. India makes the top ten three times, while China makes it only once. The largest city I had never heard of is Kinshasa in the Democratic Republic of the Congo (can I safely just call it the "Congo"?) at #29. Mexico City is the largest in North America, but we can't say it is the largest on both Americas, because Sao Paulo is higher on the list.
Benito Juarez Monument
It is hard to choose just one word for Mexico City, especially one I didn't know before. In looking at the map I see a major avenida is Viaducto Rio Piedad. Viaducto is an obvious cognate for viaduct. What is not so obvious is piedad = piety. A question for the advanced readers is how this viaduct got its name.
Ejempo time.
De las dos muchachas, prefiero Ginger. Maryanne tienes demasiadoa piedad para mí. = Of the two girls, I prefer Ginger. Maryanne has too much piety for me.
Estado: Mexico City
Palabra: Piedad
Although we've been talking a lot of Mexico City lately from my pictures, we've never acknowledged it the Estados de México series. This will be the last entry of the series.
According to the United Nations, Mexico City is the fifth largest "urban agglomeration" in the world. Interesting list. India makes the top ten three times, while China makes it only once. The largest city I had never heard of is Kinshasa in the Democratic Republic of the Congo (can I safely just call it the "Congo"?) at #29. Mexico City is the largest in North America, but we can't say it is the largest on both Americas, because Sao Paulo is higher on the list.
Benito Juarez Monument
It is hard to choose just one word for Mexico City, especially one I didn't know before. In looking at the map I see a major avenida is Viaducto Rio Piedad. Viaducto is an obvious cognate for viaduct. What is not so obvious is piedad = piety. A question for the advanced readers is how this viaduct got its name.
Ejempo time.
De las dos muchachas, prefiero Ginger. Maryanne tienes demasiadoa piedad para mí. = Of the two girls, I prefer Ginger. Maryanne has too much piety for me.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
December 7th, 2011 at 9:19:09 AM
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Quote: WizardDe las dos muchachas, prefiero Ginger. Maryanne tienes demasiado piedad para mí. = Of the two girls, I prefer Ginger. Maryanne has too much piety for me.
"...prefiero A Ginger. Maryanne TIENE demasiadA..."
Piedad also means "mercy" BTW
The Viaducto is named Río de la Piedad, because that's the name of the tubed river that used to be there. Why the river was anmed that, I've no idea. Now I think it carries waste water (sewage).
Oh, and the word most appropriate for Mex city is "Tráfico." :)
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
December 7th, 2011 at 9:38:47 AM
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Quote: NareedOh, and the word most appropriate for Mex city is "Tráfico." :)
From what little I saw, it wasn't that bad. Nothing to compared to what I've seen in large Chinese cities, not to mention Los Angeles and Washington DC. Panama City was also pretty bad.
And a river of sewage named piedad. That just doesn't sound pious to me. Then again, maybe it is appropriate, given my thoughts on religion.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
December 7th, 2011 at 10:42:34 AM
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Quote: WizardFrom what little I saw, it wasn't that bad. Nothing to compared to what I've seen in large Chinese cities, not to mention Los Angeles and Washington DC. Panama City was also pretty bad.
And a river of sewage named piedad. That just doesn't sound pious to me. Then again, maybe it is appropriate, given my thoughts on religion.
At least Mexico City has an extensive inexpensive public transportation system. Panama City barely had functioning buses, let alone "rapid transit buses" like they have in Mexico city.
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It may not have been a river of sewage when it was named. There are some architects who would like to uncover it and make it into a park.
The Fleet river in London underwent the same metamorphosis. It went from "raging river" to "tributary" to "sewer ditch" until it was finally buried completely. The road that follows it's course. "Fleet Street" is one of the more famous in London, because it used to contain the publishing business. People still use the term "Fleet Street" when they are talking about trashy journalism.
December 7th, 2011 at 11:35:43 AM
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"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
December 7th, 2011 at 3:30:59 PM
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Quote: WizardFrom what little I saw, it wasn't that bad.
I'm guessing you caught a cab to the Zocalo around 6 am, then one at or near Reforma around 8:30 am. At those times in those places, you wouldn't run accross abd traffic.
You also skipepd the current worse areas. Traffic on periférico is very bad where they're putting up the upper deck. Near my place they're making a tunel, and the traffic there is so bad sometimes it takes me 25 minutes to advance 500 meters. I live about 7 miles from the office. Last week the route I took lasted 1 hour and 21 minutes. That's bad traffic.
Quote:Nothing to compared to what I've seen in large Chinese cities, not to mention Los Angeles and Washington DC. Panama City was also pretty bad.
I've heard of Chinese cities. You may have a point there. I'm less sure about the rest.
Quote:And a river of sewage named piedad. That just doesn't sound pious to me. Then again, maybe it is appropriate, given my thoughts on religion.
Would it have been worse if it had been named for a Saint?
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
December 7th, 2011 at 4:00:29 PM
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Here is a portion of a one of a kind map of Manhattan showing where the buried streams and lakes are located. Several building project have dug right into an old lake or stream, costing millions of dollars or threatening the entire project.
An article about thewater running under Manhattan: In and around the Bowery
The underground rivers do inspire some artists. If you saw The Closer with Natalie Portman, there was a long story about one of the buried streams in London, The Walbrook, which was used as a metaphor for the lives of the protagonists.
Of course the best line in the play was What's so great about the truth? Try lying for a change. It's the currency of the world.
December 7th, 2011 at 4:02:44 PM
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Quote: pacomartinWhile the idiom caer en la cuenta literally means to "fall into the account" it is usually translated into "to realize". If you use 3rd person singular preterite tense (action in the past that is completed), cayó en la cuenta it means "he/she realized".
I thought dar cuenta meant to realize.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
December 7th, 2011 at 4:26:05 PM
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Quote: WizardQuote: pacomartinWhile the idiom caer en la cuenta literally means to "fall into the account" it is usually translated into "to realize". If you use 3rd person singular preterite tense (action in the past that is completed), cayó en la cuenta it means "he/she realized".
I thought dar cuenta meant to realize.
Basically "caer en la cuenta" is a colloquial expression, while the other expression is more literal. As follows:
dar cuenta = to give an account (to tell a story);
darse cuenta = to realize (i.e. to give an account to yourself).
DRAE
caer en la cuenta <=> (locución verbal coloquial) "dar en ello" <=> (locución verbal) Venir en conocimiento de algo que no lograba comprender o en que no había parado la atención.
(locución verbal) is a verbal phrase
(locución verbal coloquial) is a colloquial verbal phrase
Old photo of Mexico city where the river is still uncovered.
December 7th, 2011 at 5:17:07 PM
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Quote: WizardI thought dar cuenta meant to realize.
I haven't heard the expression "caer en la cuenta." But "darse cuenta" is very common. It means to notice or to realize something. Mostly to notice.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
December 7th, 2011 at 5:45:26 PM
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Quote: NareedI haven't heard the expression "caer en la cuenta." But "darse cuenta" is very common. It means to notice or to realize something. Mostly to notice.
El OP en caer en la cuenta dice Hola a todos, no soy muy experto en esto de la gramática, ni en la ortografía, pero estoy en aras de mejorar, por esto entre a este foro, tengo una gran duda en algunas publicaciones he visto que se utiliza “Caer en la cuenta” pero en mi país (Colombia) el 98% de las personas dice “Caer en cuenta”, quisiera saber cual es la manera correcta de decirlo y si existe alguna regla que sustente la razón.
Una mujer dice "Al menos así lo usamos en Argentina", pero un otra hombre dice "Creo todo depende de la zona en el centro de México utilizamos caer en la cuenta de... en el norte he oído ambas".
Otro hombre añade, En Uruguay, "darse cuenta" es muchísimo más utilizada que "caer en cuenta".
Como se dice "original poster" en español?
December 7th, 2011 at 6:10:58 PM
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Nareed says: I am always right. except on thsoe occasions when I'm not.
I'm right in this. "Caer en la cuenta" sounds too verbose and "literal" that it wouldn't be sued widely in Mexico.
Good question. Short answer is "I don't know." Long answer is: message board users create their own lingo,w hich can vary even between message boards. I haven't beena ctive in one in Spanish since the mid-90s. Back then we used the terminology common n the WWIV-Net BBSes, and I'm sure I can't recall most of it.
A quick translation would be "El autor del mensaje original."
I'm right in this. "Caer en la cuenta" sounds too verbose and "literal" that it wouldn't be sued widely in Mexico.
Quote: pacomartinComo se dice "original poster" en español?
Good question. Short answer is "I don't know." Long answer is: message board users create their own lingo,w hich can vary even between message boards. I haven't beena ctive in one in Spanish since the mid-90s. Back then we used the terminology common n the WWIV-Net BBSes, and I'm sure I can't recall most of it.
A quick translation would be "El autor del mensaje original."
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
December 7th, 2011 at 7:36:02 PM
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Quote: pacomartinOld photo of Mexico city where the river is still uncovered.
I don't recognize it. It looks so flat!
So what are the avenues flowing together to the left of the river? That might give me a notion of where the pic was taken.
The cars, as near as I can make out, don't look too old. So it might have been taken as recently as the early 60s
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
December 7th, 2011 at 8:40:16 PM
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Quote: NareedThe cars, as near as I can make out, don't look too old. So it might have been taken as recently as the early 60s
The population was surprisingly small in the early '60s. If you factor in that there were a lot more people in any given house 50 years ago, the city was relatively small compared to today. Very little spilled over the DF boundaries and into the State of Mexico
Federal District
1950 3,050,442
1970 6,874,165
1990 8,235,744
State of Mexico
1950 1,392,623
1970 3,833,185
1990 9,815,795
December 7th, 2011 at 9:11:55 PM
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Quote: NareedSo what are the avenues flowing together to the left of the river? That might give me a notion of where the pic was taken.
I got them from the Skyscraper City thread but it's not very helpful in telling me where the photo was taken from. I assume near the airport.
April 22nd, 2010, 01:02 AM
FOTOS DEL RIO DE LA PIEDAD AHORA, VIADUCTO MIGUEL ALEMAN
LAS ENCONTRE EN EL FORO DEL MEXICO DE AYER
Y ME PARECE QUE AQUI QUEDAN BIEN SALUDOS
http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/7902/colnarvarteyriodelapied.jpg
http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/5391/riodelapiedad.png
http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/4596/riopiedad.png
CREDITO INTERNET EL MEXICO DE AYER
December 7th, 2011 at 9:40:40 PM
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Quote: pacomartinI got them from the Skyscraper City thread but it's not very helpful in telling me where the photo was taken from. I assume near the airport.
It says so on the file name :)
Quote:http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/7902/colnarvarteyriodelapied.jpg
Emphasis added.
That means "colonia Narvarte." Based on that I'm guessing the street going over the river is Dr. Vertiz. The diagonal avenue going to the left of it would be San Antonio and the other diagonal would be Avenida Universidad. Maybe.
As supporting evidence, there seems to be a stadium along the river. There was a baseball stadium there until a few years ago (and no, the one in the picture isn't a baseball park), right where Vertiz crosses over today's Viaducto. It's been torn down and now there's a mall called Parque Delta in its place.
Keep in mind it's late, I had a 12 hour work day and I get lost in my own room ;)
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
December 8th, 2011 at 2:35:26 AM
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Quote: NareedThat means "colonia Narvarte." Based on that I'm guessing the street going over the river is Dr. Vertiz. The diagonal avenue going to the left of it would be San Antonio and the other diagonal would be Avenida Universidad. Maybe.
As supporting evidence, there seems to be a stadium along the river. There was a baseball stadium there until a few years ago (and no, the one in the picture isn't a baseball park), right where Vertiz crosses over today's Viaducto. It's been torn down and now there's a mall called Parque Delta in its place.
Keep in mind it's late, I had a 12 hour work day and I get lost in my own room ;)
I would have never guessed. The names of individual colonia's are not on the maps I have. Looking at Google maps I have the photo about 3 blocks north of that. Avenida Universidad would be outside of the range of the photo to the left.
Street on bottom left is Bolivar
Traffic Circle is
(#1) Casa del Obrero Mundial
(#2) San Antonio
(#3) Eje Central Lazaro Cardena
Looking west on (#1) and (#2)
Viaduct Rio Piedad is on right side of photo
I see the Parque Delta shopping mall where the old baseball stadium is located. It has a Liverpool and a Cineplex.
The wikipedia article says "Parque Delta" was demolished in 1955, and replaced with "Parque del Seguro Social" which closed in 2000. That was demolished in 2003 and replaced with the shopping mall. So if we knew what the baseball stadiums looked like we could date the photo to either before or after 1955.
For everyone else
On a subway map, the traffic circle is 600 yards south of the Lazaro Cardenas stop (which is just to the right of the photo), and you are looking west between Centro Medico and Etiopia. The traffic circle in the distance in the photo now contains the Etiopia subway stop.
The photo makes that part of the city almost empty in the early '60s (late '50s?) despite being just over 2 miles from the Zocalo.
December 8th, 2011 at 6:48:45 AM
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Quote: pacomartinI would have never guessed. The names of individual colonia's are not on the maps I have.
So get other maps. For example at http://www.guiaroji.com.mx
It's not the best mapping tool available, but it has the names of every neighborhood, and it shows the all the subway lines and stations as well.
Quote:The photo makes that part of the city almost empty in the early '60s (late '50s?) despite being just over 2 miles from the Zocalo.
That's what I meant when I said it's all too flat. Lots of empty lots, too, Not many tall buildings, either, and no traffic at all.
BTW I do recall the 70s, and the viaducto was then just as it is now. So I'm guessing the river was tubed and paved over in the 60s.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
December 8th, 2011 at 7:04:15 AM
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Quote: NareedI'm right in this. "Caer en la cuenta" sounds too verbose and "literal" that it wouldn't be sued widely in Mexico.
Here is the passage where I got this. The English is the original, and the Spanish a translation.
English: When the rice was cooking, she slipped into the dining room to set the table and then remembered they had forgotten salad.
Spanish: Después de poner el arroz al fuego, se fue al comedor a poner la mesa y entonces cayó en la cuenta de que se les había olvidado la ensalada.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
December 8th, 2011 at 7:12:22 AM
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Quote: WizardSpanish: Después de poner el arroz al fuego, se fue al comedor a poner la mesa y entonces cayó en la cuenta de que se les había olvidado la ensalada.
I would say ".. y entonces se dió cuenta de que...."
It's possible in a book or a news report the phrase "cayó en cuenta" or "cayó en la cuenta" would be used. But books and news reports tend to be verbose and literal. IN every day speech, not so much.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
December 8th, 2011 at 8:30:33 AM
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I'm going to start a new feature in the SWD. The lindo y feo words of the day. The lindo words will be ones that sound good, that roll of the tongue naturally, that bring delight to the Spanish language. The feo words are an effort to say, don't sound natural, and leave a bad aftertaste.
Fecha: 12-8-11
Lindo: Estropear (to break)
Feo: Estómago (stomach)
Ejemplos time.
El ladrido de el perro estropeó el silencio de la noche. = The barking dog broke the silence of the night.
Eso comida no estaba de acuerdo con mi estómago. = That meal did not agree with my stomach.
Questions for the advanced readers:
How does estropear differ from romper?
In English if we don't digest a meal well we say it didn't agree with us, or our stomach. Does that idiom carry over into Spanish?
Fecha: 12-8-11
Lindo: Estropear (to break)
Feo: Estómago (stomach)
Ejemplos time.
El ladrido de el perro estropeó el silencio de la noche. = The barking dog broke the silence of the night.
Eso comida no estaba de acuerdo con mi estómago. = That meal did not agree with my stomach.
Questions for the advanced readers:
How does estropear differ from romper?
In English if we don't digest a meal well we say it didn't agree with us, or our stomach. Does that idiom carry over into Spanish?
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
December 8th, 2011 at 8:37:56 AM
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Quote: NareedI would say ".. y entonces se dió cuenta de que...."
It's possible in a book or a news report the phrase "cayó en cuenta" or "cayó en la cuenta" would be used. But books and news reports tend to be verbose and literal. IN every day speech, not so much.
How about children's books which are translated from English?
I have seen some parent's question some of the translations of her book. For instance:
"Tenía el pelo como cepillo de limpiar piso y ya había mudado los dientes" is translation for
"His hair looked like a scrubbing-brush and most of his grown-up front teeth were in". (Henry Huggins, 1950- Author Beverly Cleary)
The Spanish seems overly literal and not very poetic.
December 8th, 2011 at 8:42:02 AM
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Quote: NareedI would say ".. y entonces se dió cuenta de que...."
It's possible in a book or a news report the phrase "cayó en cuenta" or "cayó en la cuenta" would be used. But books and news reports tend to be verbose and literal. IN every day speech, not so much.
After eating in a Spanish restaurant, I ask for la cuenta. Should that be dependent on the country I'm in?
Many people, especially ignorant people, want to punish you for speaking the truth. - Mahatma Ghandi
December 8th, 2011 at 8:59:55 AM
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Quote: pacomartinHow about children's books which are translated from English?
Yup, that is the book I'm reading, and I make no apologies. My Spanish is at about a second grade level, at best, so this is the best I can do. I have a bilingual version of Treasure Island, but it is way too hard for me. Sadly, I can't think of a more effective way to learn the language than to go through translations of children's books.
Quote: 1BBAfter eating in a Spanish restaurant, I ask for la cuenta. Should that be dependent on the country I'm in?
It is also cuenta in Argentina. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it comes from contar, so the check is like a count of everything you ordered. We've also been discussing how darse cuenta means to notice, or give account of.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
December 8th, 2011 at 9:35:45 AM
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Quote: WizardYup, that is the book I'm reading, and I make no apologies. My Spanish is at about a second grade level, at best, so this is the best I can do.
No apologies necessary. It is a highly recommended way to learn a language. Most second graders in a native language have a very extensive vocabulary, and most of the basic grammar.
But Beverly Clearly is 95 years old, and one of the best known writers of children's books which have been translated into 20 languages. She may not know any of them. The translators will naturally take the most literal translations possible.
"His hair looked like a scrubbing-brush and most of his grown-up front teeth were in". Original prose from Henry Huggins, 1950- Author Beverly Cleary
But look at the Spanish translation and turn it back into English
"Tenía el pelo como cepillo de limpiar piso y ya había mudado los dientes"
His hair was as a brush for cleaning floors and he had 'changed' his teeth.
Nareed: How would you translate "most of his grown-up front teeth were in"?
Esperanza Rising is an award winning book written by Pam Muñoz Ryan who grew up in California. She is not a native speaker, but she grew up hearing Spanish and has studied the language. The original book is mostly English but with some Spanish. I suspect she had a lot more input into the translation than Beverly Cleary.
But that looks more like 6th grade reading level
