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13 members have voted

gamerfreak
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September 19th, 2019 at 10:18:02 AM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

Am I the only one who see's
what a joke this is? How unfair?
I couldn't believe what I was
seeing. At least on Chopped
they pit former winners against
former winners to make it fair.
Barb and the other guy didn't
have deer in the headlights
looks, but it was damn close.


Yes and no.

A bracket type championship would probably be a little more fair, but thatís not how Jeopardy is played. Blame Merv Griffin, I guess.

Obviously being on several episodes and experienced with the buzzer is a huge advantage, but they all get dethroned by a new player eventually.

But at the end of the day, buzzer skills only get you so far, you still have to know the answers to the Clues to win.
EvenBob
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September 19th, 2019 at 10:42:06 AM permalink
Quote: gamerfreak

Yes and no.

A bracket type championship would probably be a little more fair, but thatís not how Jeopardy is played.



A 'little' more fair??? Ya think?
Being the first episode I ever
saw (I never liked game shows)
I was stunned by the unfairness
of it. The producers WANT the
returning champ to win, it's
blatantly obvious. It's where their
EV is, having somebody come back
again and again. Barb and the
other guy were just props.

And yeah, he'll lose eventually. Not
because somebody is better, but
because he screws up. What an awful
show, can't believe it's been on so long.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
Wizard
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September 19th, 2019 at 10:42:30 AM permalink
Here is a summary of correct and incorrect answers by player.

Jeopardy Round

Player Correct Incorrect
Jason 11 2
Barb 5 1
Jon 11 1
Total 27 4


Double Jeopardy Round

Player Correct Incorrect
Jason 18 0
Barb 8 1
Jon 3 0
Total 29 1


Combined
Player Correct Incorrect
Jason 29 2
Barb 13 2
Jon 14 1
Total 56 5


This shows it was a clicker game. Jason clicked in on 31 Clues, one more than Barb and Jon combined. The Daily Doubles are a "safety net" and second way to win, but they were of no help to Barb, with Jason finding both in Double Jeopardy and getting both right.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
Wizard
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September 19th, 2019 at 10:48:42 AM permalink
Here are the final boards in both rounds.

Jeopardy Round

Jason Barb Jon Jason Jason Jason
Jason'/Jon' Jason Jon Jason Jon Jason
Barb Jon Jon Jason Jason Jon
Jon Barb Jon Jason Jason Jon
Jason' X Barb'/Jon Barb Barb Jon


Double Jeopardy Round

Jason Barb Jason Barb Barb Jon
Jason Barb Jason Barb Jason Jon
Jason Jason Jason Jason Jason Jason
Barb Jason Jon Jason Barb Jason
Barb'/Jason Jason Jason Barb Jason X


' = Answered incorrectly
X = Nobody answered
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
EvenBob
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September 19th, 2019 at 10:55:13 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard


This shows it was a clicker game. Jason clicked in on 31 Clues, one more than Barb and Jon combined.



Am I the only one who noticed
Alex kissing Jason's ass? He
was encouraging him, and lamenting
when he was down. I'm surprised
he even noticed Barb Job were
there. Jason was the star.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
charliepatrick
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September 19th, 2019 at 11:10:00 AM permalink
There's slightly different stats at https://thejeopardyfan.com/2019/09/final-jeopardy-9-18-2019.html but Jason did click first on more than 50%. Essentially this gives him a much larger chance to find the Daily Doubles.

Spoiler alert - warning the site above also gives the result from today's game if you change the date, and might also show it on other pages (e.g. running totals). At the moment (19h UK) the front page hasn't been updated, but please don't rely on that.
EvenBob
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September 19th, 2019 at 11:32:59 AM permalink
Quote: charliepatrick

There's slightly different stats at https://thejeopardyfan.com/2019/09/final-jeopardy-9-18-2019.html



"One of Barbaraís audience guests posted on Twitter last week that while she was introduced as a retired air traffic controller, she has apparently moonlit in the gaming industry, and also invented a table game that went to market. Thus, seeing a category called DESCRIBING THE CASINO GAME would have been right up her alley. Game material and contestants are selected randomly and independently of each other; sometimes, coincidences take place and this one was a happy one for Barbara. Of course, with Jason still going 3/5 in the category, the signalling device is still the most important part!j"

That's hilarious. Saying even though
we realize Barb had an advantage
is the category, we all know she was
hamstrung because the clicker is
designed to give the returning champ
a huge advantage so we can sell more
soap. First and last ep of this stupid
show I'll ever watch.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
beachbumbabs
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September 19th, 2019 at 11:39:35 AM permalink
Quote: Rigondeaux

I think a big bad break was when Babs was first to answer on the brand names question, where all the spellings of the words were wrong. And for a large dollar amount, iirc.

Whoever got the first answer in that category was very likely to miss it, particularly on the less obvious ones. After that, everybody realizes the gimmick and it becomes far easier.

That was huge, and threw me into "wtf" mode for a bit, yes. I have seen several discussions, including the head writer weighing in on it, about the change in tactics in calling clues, most recently from James Holtzhauer's run but also from others (Chuck Forrest and Arthur Chu) known for it. The writers sometimes (even usually) build a category as a set, meant to be opened top to bottom , that lead to the harder answers being more accessible. They're pretty frustrated with contestants DD hunting the bottom of the board because the elegance and sense of the sequence gets lost, it confuses or slows Alex, and people miss answers they would have gotten had the category been run as designed.

High risk, high reward tactics, and takes the skill and knowledge level required to a higher level. The stuf answer was the least obvious of the category, so rightfully placed in the 1k box. Everybody grew up with play-DOH and the other, easier ones. But I had seen Jason in season 35 before I went, and seen his 2 games shown earlier this week, before I went. I decided I had to fight the battle same tactic to same tactic, and go across the bottom. Sort of worked, sort of didn't. Definitely threw him at first, but he recovered, even though he missed the DD.

I'm going to ask a question of you guys who were there. (This is complicated, please hang with me.) My brain was in hyperdrive, where every second was a long time. When I answered that Stuf question, I distinctly remember taking a pause after the first f and trying to decide whether it was one f, another f, or a d ("stufd") on the package. Was working it out while speaking.

Alex didn't say "correct" immediately, so I added the second f as my best chance. He immediately said "wrong", which gave away the correct answer as well as costing me control of the board. My wtf was that he hadn't said "correct" when I gave that pause and kept the game moving.

However, what you SAW was me immediately adding the 2nd f for a wrong answer. That's not my recollection, as above. I think they edited out the little pause in post-production. They routinely do that all through the show, finding the fractions of seconds of dead air and killing them to make the game fit into the time slot and keep up the pacing.

But I was in hyperdrive, and I could be wrong about that pause. It could have been just in my brain as I was answering and not in real time. Do you guys remember which way it actually happened? Either answer is fine, but it's a nagging question that threw me off in the moment, and I'd lIke to stop thinking about it.

Quote:



Mike, those questions in the metal category where easy! I felt like the champion was kind of amused at how easy they were too. If that's what you grew up with, they were equivalent to "The object of this card game is to get as close to 21 as possible without going over."

The bands they chose were very fluffy though. Some were arguably not really metal.

I did not know 4 of the Metal questions. Music trivia except for a relatively small subset is my weakest area. I DID know the DD about Dee Snyder/Twisted Sister, so bad luck that it was in that column, because I was never going to call it. Jason was going on about that yesterday with his friends, not quite gloating, but definitely celebrating that it was a wheelhouse category that let him bet big with confidence. But I promise you, it was obscure unless you are a Metalhead, then dead easy, just like the Casino category was dead easy for me.
Quote:



My mom and I were watching some older episodes on netflix and laughing at how unbelievably lame everyone's personal stories are. Like, one lady's was that she was on vacation once and missed a ferry. Seriously. Or they are like, "I own 4 cacti." "One time, I thought I saw Tom Selleck but it turned out not to be him." "I've bought the same brand of cat food for 7 years."

Bab's story has to be one of the coolest in the show's history.



Thanks so much for that! I was very uncomfortable in that personal story situation. Found out later from others that's very common, and a lot of people find it the hardest part to do, but I guess it's popular with some part of the audience.

They gave Alex 3 stories out of the 40 or so leading questions they had us answer in writing. The staff reads all of those, and the rest of your bio, to pick out points of interest. A staffer in rehearsal that morning leads you with the script card they give him on the 3 stories and listen to how you tell it, asks which one you'd like to tell, then highlights the one they think will play the best. Later, Alex asks you the one he finds the most interesting from what he has on the card (whether it's the one they highlighted or not), and you answer it during the show.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
rxwine
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September 19th, 2019 at 11:46:58 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard


This shows it was a clicker game. Jason clicked in on 31 Clues, one more than Barb and Jon combined.



Shouldn't you also factor for the highest category being worth 5 times the lowest? You could win with a low click score, and lose with a high one.
There's no secret. Just know what you're talking about before you open your mouth.
beachbumbabs
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September 19th, 2019 at 12:19:07 PM permalink
Quote: rxwine

Real post way down below
x
x
x

I wrote some thoughts on the fly while watching.

- Flash first impression - wait is that Michael Shackleford's brother, the current champion? If you squint enough he looks similar.

- hey there really is a casino category. Not surprised you missed the James Bond question. Slow on the button? thought you'd get at least 2 more of those.

- Thought it was great you took a couple wins out of the gate.

- thought that tornado question was a trick question. It seemed too obvious the USA was #1, but I didn't know that for sure and would have hesitated.

-double jeopardy, Oh oh, the champion has seemed to gotten his game on. He's pulling ahead. I'm hoping you remember to keep calm, and but keep pressing to the last second --- there's always a chance, something will turn around even on the final question, if you have enough to compete with the leader.

ah, commercial before final jeopardy -- can't really count on this guy to bet enough to jeopardize his win. Perhaps he will faint and have to be carried out? Not much hope, I admit.

Rats.



Lol. Rats, indeed.

Didn't miss the James Bond question. Buzzed and didn't get called on. However, I probably would have said "baccarat" rather than the more-correct "chemin de fer". Hope I would have gotten the same ruling Jason did. Slow on the button might be right, but greater chance I was early and got locked out. I will never know.

I was an ATC weather specialist in DC for a couple years. Tornado question dead easy. Has been in a couple of my past briefings to others to convince them to spend taxpayer money on detecting it.

I went dead inside when he found the second DJDD. Knew it was over right then, with him getting all 3. Not fond of my pouty face the last couple of minutes after that. I was pissed and apparently couldn't maintain a poker face, let alone a smile. Kind of embarrassed about it, actually, but it's just a game, in the end. I'm super-competitive, but not usually a bad sport.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
michael99000
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September 19th, 2019 at 12:42:53 PM permalink
Iíd like to know how many times, in the history of the show , a Final Jeopardy leader with more than double 2nd place, has wagered an amount that put their win at risk.
EvenBob
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September 19th, 2019 at 12:50:16 PM permalink
Quote: michael99000

Iíd like to know how many times, in the history of the show , a Final Jeopardy leader with more than double 2nd place, has wagered an amount that put their win at risk.



Why did Jason only bet $3k? The most
Barb could have won is $16K, he could
have bet $15k and still have won.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
michael99000
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September 19th, 2019 at 12:53:01 PM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

Why did Jason only bet $3k? The most
Barb could have won is $16K, he could
have bet $15k and still have won.



Maybe his knowledge of the 1940s isnít great.
EvenBob
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September 19th, 2019 at 12:54:00 PM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

I've never seen the show except for
bits of it in movies like Groundhog
Day. Nobody told me it was rigged,
what a joke of a show.

The winner coming back after winning
the round just minutes before, has
a huge edge over the two rookies. He's
warmed up, he's in the groove. And
after winning 5 in a row and coming back
for the next week, he's an old pro. Cool
and calm, just mow them down.

Even Alex was obviously rooting for him.
Barb and the other guy didn't have a
chance. That's what this show is about,
the winner continuing to win and making
people root for or against him.

Look what he did. He was down a lot at
one point and cool as a cucumber. He
just plodded along, building his lead
while the brains of the other two players
are trying to cope with 'first time' stress and
anxiety. Of course he won.

Awful show, very unfair and rigged so
the winner can keep winning and
drawing an audience. Much more fair
for a winner to play other winners only.
Wait till there are 3 one time winners,
they play each other. Keep rotating
other winners into the rotation. What
I saw tonight was a travesty, one cool
customer and two others trying like
crazy to figure it out. Not fair at all.



How come nobody is disagreeing with
me. I expected a chorus of 'Oh Bob,
you're full of crap as usual.'

Does your silence mean you all agree
with me that the show is rigged for
the previous winner to keep winning?
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
Rigondeaux
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September 19th, 2019 at 1:01:18 PM permalink
Quote: gamerfreak

Hah I thought the same thing. I think they would have accepted the answer, or if Alex said incorrect at first, come back after the break and award points for that answer. That happens from time to time.

I was surprised they took ďthe moochĒ as a correct answer for Anthony Scarramucci, or at least didnít ask him to be more specific.



I forgot about that. Me too. I was thinking, "Oh that mooch guy... I don't know his real name." As a contestant, I might not have said "the mooch" and timed out trying to recall his real name.
beachbumbabs
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September 19th, 2019 at 1:03:16 PM permalink
Quote: GWAE

Hi BBB... Sorry it did not go your way. I wanted to say sorry months ago but didn't want to put you in weird position to have to ignore/deny it.

After the last question of the casino category I saw you get annoyed/frustrated/pissed. I hope that didn't throw you off your game. Do you recall that sequence? Was it because you only got 1 of that category to answer? Seemed like you were angry at the buzzer.

So after your experience do you feel differently about the show? Do you think they should change the way the buzzer works? As you mentioned the questions are not overly hard, I even got about 20 of them right and I suck at trivia. I don't think it is anything earth shattering but it seems like there is too much emphasis on just winning the buzzer. Do you know where you went wrong on the buzzer? Could you just not figure out where the timing was?

Again I am sorry that you did not win but I hope your experience was everything you wanted it to be after so many years of trying.



I was definitely angry at the buzzer situation. Sorry it was so obvious.

There's a long running conversation among Jeopardy people about the buzzer and how unsatisfactory it is. I know Jon also buzzed in on many he didn't get to answer, though not how many times he did it. But no one has come up with a better way to do it.

Perhaps a fairer way in some respects would be for each person to get two minutes to earn as much money as possible, selecting from a random categories board at the level they want to answer, no daily doubles, wrong and non-answers still minus, no long video clues, as fast as they can. Then a round as now, with a competitive board and 3 DD hidden there, where everyone likely has a bank to work from because of the first round, and bets can be excitingly high. Then FJ where all can bet and answer in secret, based on earnings from the first 2 rounds.

Do you guys think that would be watchable, or any improvement on the current format?

I don't know what I think about the game yet. It's been an enormous learning experience. I have nothing but good things to say about the show staff and the way they treated me throughout. Overall it was a great experience. Still fighting some residual frustration about some things, though, as seems evident here. Most of those are directed at myself.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
Joeman
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September 19th, 2019 at 1:13:38 PM permalink
Quote: michael99000

Iíd like to know how many times, in the history of the show , a Final Jeopardy leader with more than double 2nd place, has wagered an amount that put their win at risk.

I remember this one time...

"Dealer has 'rock'... Pay 'paper!'"
michael99000
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September 19th, 2019 at 1:16:47 PM permalink
Quote: Joeman

I remember this one time...



Lol when casino games popped up for Babs, the first thing I thought of were Cliffs categories on that episode
DRich
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September 19th, 2019 at 1:20:07 PM permalink
Quote: michael99000

Quote: Joeman

I remember this one time...



Lol when casino games popped up for Babs, the first thing I thought of were Cliffs categories on that episode



I always thoughtif I was on Jeopardy and didn't know the final Jeopardy question that I would answer "People that have never been in my kitchen".
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
ams288
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September 19th, 2019 at 1:24:13 PM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

How come nobody is disagreeing with
me. I expected a chorus of 'Oh Bob,
you're full of crap as usual.'

Does your silence mean you all agree
with me that the show is rigged for
the previous winner to keep winning?



Most likely it means that no one cares enough to read your posts.
Ding Dong the Witch is Dead
Rigondeaux
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September 19th, 2019 at 1:32:13 PM permalink
The champ has an advantage, but as Bob observed, that's probably best for ratings.

I think most people know that it's a buzzer driven game. I could not get on Jeopardy! to save my life. But I usually know many of the questions. Everyone on the show has gotten on Jeopardy! so it stands to reason they know most as well. I'm sure most viewers reach the same conclusion.

It's a TV show and the end goal is not fairness, but entertainment. I think what really drives the show is the rhythm. The answers come fast and furious and the viewers at home have a window to blurt out the question faster than their friends and family. Then, a couple seconds later the contestants give their answers and we find out who's right. Then there is another little window to say "nice one!" or ridicule a stupid answer.

I've seen hundreds of episodes where I didn't care very much who won and only one where I did.

Oh, I was surprised that the Spanish dog command, "Sientense!" was such a stumper. It's pretty easy Spanish and to me it is one of those foreign words that is particularly memorable or fun. Like how everybody loves to say "ocho." Even when my Spanish was almost non-existent it was one of the words that stuck in my mind. Maybe this is because I was a substitute teacher in LA.

The context was really strong. It could have been dog commands in Ancient Egyptian and "sit" would be a pretty good guess.

3/3 people who are much better at Jeopardy than me missed it. Funny how that happens sometimes.

I wonder if they avoid situations where the clues might be about someone's first or second language. If a guy named Pedro Pena was on that episode, would they have had that cat?
Wizard
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September 19th, 2019 at 1:43:26 PM permalink
Barb, as to your "stuf" answer, I don't recall there being a pause after the first F, but recorded it and can look at it more carefully.

As to making the buzzer situation more fair, perhaps they should randomize who to give the question to among everybody who clicks within the first two seconds after Alex finishes reading the question. Your idea is very fair and would make for good television, but it would make it a fundamentally different game.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
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September 19th, 2019 at 1:48:06 PM permalink
You are our hero BBB! It's natural to be bummed, but there's nothing to be gained from fixating on the wouldacouldashouldas. You put up a good fight, and left it all at the podium. Thank you for sharing the adventure with us.

Did the "clicker" pen they gave the contestants help or hurt?
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GWAE
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September 19th, 2019 at 1:56:57 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Barb, as to your "stuf" answer, I don't recall there being a pause after the first F, but recorded it and can look at it more carefully.

As to making the buzzer situation more fair, perhaps they should randomize who to give the question to among everybody who clicks within the first two seconds after Alex finishes reading the question. Your idea is very fair and would make for good television, but it would make it a fundamentally different game.



I was confused about that category until her answer. She did do a slight pause and then added the second f but it was very slight
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September 19th, 2019 at 2:08:46 PM permalink
My impressions: (Had it recorded but won't be visiting those friends for a week or so). Saw snippets on the link posted in this thread but my machine seems to have terrible bandwidth problems.

I would definitely agree that the Host-Champion interaction is strangely far different than the Host-Challengers interaction. As with the entire show, its done for ratings.

I think it was a blatant error to accept the Champion's use of the nickname Mooch when perhaps that was all the champion recalled.

I don't know enough about the buzzer system but surely they should be electronically available at a defined time and the system should select the first candidate who buzzes even if it is but a milli-second ahead of another.

The producers want to broadcast content, so snipping out 'dead air' to accelerate a contestant's speech pattern is understandable, though can result in false impressions.

I am sorry and very much surprised that Barbara did not win, but after seeing the snippets of the show and realizing how skewed the show is, I guess its simply a matter of entertainment, not cleaving uncut diamonds.
Rigondeaux
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September 19th, 2019 at 2:09:44 PM permalink
It would have to be kind of a behind the scenes thing. But maybe you could have some buttons to push. Say 1-5. They still must be pushed within the first second. After the first second, it is first come first serve as this is no longer merely timing the clicker. When there is a tie in the first second, the highest number gets to answer. But you are limited in how many times you can use the higher numbers. Perhaps you have a certain number of total points you can use.

For entertainment purposes, the show is perfect as is. I don't think the average viewer would want the above system, but it would be interesting. There would still be a skill element when multiple people know, rather than randomizing it. However, it would be a more interesting skill than just being insanely good at timing the clicker.

You'd have to balance out the dollar value of the category, your certainty on being right and if you think your opponents know. If the answer was " the real name of the internet's Wizzard of Odds" it would be easy for me, but I'd push 1 because I would not expect the others to know.

I don't want to say it's fairer, but you'd have more of an opportunity. Like if someone is faster than you on the button, you are cooked. That's it. Here you have a chance to develop an execute a game plan that could work, and will at least work sometimes.

An analogy would be like, if someone is much faster than you, they will always beat you in a sprint unless they injure themselves or something. Where if a wide receiver is faster than a cornerback, it's an advantage, but the game gives the CB a chance to win at least sometimes by doing other things better or getting lucky.
EvenBob
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September 19th, 2019 at 2:20:35 PM permalink
Quote: Rigondeaux

For entertainment purposes, the show is perfect as is.



It's like pitting a fighter who
has won 13 bouts against a
fighter who has never even
been in the ring before. While
he's trying to figure it out,
he's getting his head bashed
in.
Entertaining if you like seeing
the new guy beaten to a pulp.

What's the point of having the
questions ranked, when the
champ just goes for the most
expensive ones because he has
a huge advantage. Talk about
obviously unfair.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
Wizard
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September 19th, 2019 at 2:24:03 PM permalink
Here are some pictures from the show. First, a run of the "Describe the Casino Game" category.

Click on any image for a larger version.

$200




$400



$600




$800



$1000




Our Hero


"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
Wizard
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September 19th, 2019 at 2:28:55 PM permalink
This was my favorite question.

"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
Rigondeaux
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September 19th, 2019 at 2:39:04 PM permalink
It's fortunate that the casino cat came up, but unfortunate that most of them were extremely easy. I think anyone would get the roulette and BJ ones. Bac was pretty easy. PGP a bit harder.

Babs would have more of an advantage (obviously) if you say, had to know the number of numbers on a roulette wheel. Which I think would be a fair question that many people would know.

Or if the BJ q was something like, "in blackjack, you have the option of doing this when your first two cards have the same value." Again, I think that would be a fair question that many people could get, but many couldn't. Whereas you'd have to be Amish to not get the existing clues.
Rigondeaux
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September 19th, 2019 at 2:50:55 PM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

It's like pitting a fighter who
has won 13 bouts against a
fighter who has never even
been in the ring before. While
he's trying to figure it out,
he's getting his head bashed
in.
Entertaining if you like seeing
the new guy beaten to a pulp.

What's the point of having the
questions ranked, when the
champ just goes for the most
expensive ones because he has
a huge advantage. Talk about
obviously unfair.



I usually watch with my family. Aside. I think I've mentioned this before. But as a kid, I didn't understand that the answers usually had hints in them and that you were often deducing the answers. So I thought my parents were geniuses who just knew off the top of their heads who was king of France in 1480 and so forth.

Anyway, I think it's different from a prize fight because of 99.999% the time you don't really care about who is playing or who wins. I guess with the exception of the reigning champion if they go on a crazy run. But even that is kind of a newer, internet driven thing. Back in the day, it was just a 30-minute show and the contestants were random people who ceased to exist once it was over.

In my family... and it seems to be the same for others... it is really more of an interactive game that you are playing at home. The only time I really care about the contestants at all is when I get one right and they all miss it and I look really smart.
DRich
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September 19th, 2019 at 3:13:50 PM permalink
Quote: Rigondeaux



In my family... and it seems to be the same for others... it is really more of an interactive game that you are playing at home. The only time I really care about the contestants at all is when I get one right and they all miss it and I look really smart.



I rarely get a Final Jeopardy question right, but when I do and all of the conmtestants don't, I feel vindicated for a week or so.
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
tringlomane
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September 19th, 2019 at 3:23:16 PM permalink
Quote: GWAE

Hi BBB... Sorry it did not go your way. I wanted to say sorry months ago but didn't want to put you in weird position to have to ignore/deny it.

After the last question of the casino category I saw you get annoyed/frustrated/pissed. I hope that didn't throw you off your game. Do you recall that sequence? Was it because you only got 1 of that category to answer? Seemed like you were angry at the buzzer.

So after your experience do you feel differently about the show? Do you think they should change the way the buzzer works? As you mentioned the questions are not overly hard, I even got about 20 of them right and I suck at trivia. I don't think it is anything earth shattering but it seems like there is too much emphasis on just winning the buzzer. Do you know where you went wrong on the buzzer? Could you just not figure out where the timing was?

Again I am sorry that you did not win but I hope your experience was everything you wanted it to be after so many years of trying.



Unfortunately, this is the way Jeopardy! is. A good chunk of the questions aren't that difficult because they don't want to make the audience feel like idiots at home. The problem with the format, which Bob is much more upset than usual about, is it's often dependent on who rings in first. And defending champions definitely have a significant advantage because of it.

Quote: EvenBob

Am I the only one who noticed
Alex kissing Jason's ass? He
was encouraging him, and lamenting
when he was down. I'm surprised
he even noticed Barb Job were
there. Jason was the star.



It's nothing compared to what he did with James.

Quote: EvenBob

How come nobody is disagreeing with
me. I expected a chorus of 'Oh Bob,
you're full of crap as usual.'

Does your silence mean you all agree
with me that the show is rigged for
the previous winner to keep winning?



I think you're terribly overreacting in your responses. But you are correct in that this game is not perfect. But it's been on in its current run for 35 years, so it's not crap either.

Quote: Wizard

Barb, as to your "stuf" answer, I don't recall there being a pause after the first F, but recorded it and can look at it more carefully.

As to making the buzzer situation more fair, perhaps they should randomize who to give the question to among everybody who clicks within the first two seconds after Alex finishes reading the question. Your idea is very fair and would make for good television, but it would make it a fundamentally different game.



Two seconds is way too long for that. 0.5 seconds tops. I didn't notice a huge pause myself on the extra "f".

Quote: DRich

I rarely get a Final Jeopardy question right, but when I do and all of the conmtestants don't, I feel vindicated for a week or so.



That's always fun. I got Barb's FJ question right. But an educated guess. I knew "Fat Man" was the first bomb.

I'm sorry you didn't win Barb. It was very unfortunate to go against a strong player and even more importantly, a strong buzzer clicker. :(
Wizard
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September 19th, 2019 at 3:31:08 PM permalink
Quote: Rigondeaux

It's fortunate that the casino cat came up, but unfortunate that most of them were extremely easy.



I agree on both counts. I could see a couple easy questions, but four of them?

As to Jeopardy in general, I think they try to make it so that the average viewer gets about 50% right. That keeps them interested. If the percentage is too low, the audience will feel stupid, if too high they will feel bored. It's been talked to death how to make the show more fair without making the questions harder, including here. If my job relied on the show, I wouldn't want to mess with what has been a success for 35 years.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
charliepatrick
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September 19th, 2019 at 3:40:10 PM permalink
Quote: Rigondeaux

....if you say, had to know the number of numbers on a roulette wheel. Which I think would be a fair question that many people would know....

In the UK the answer would nearly always be 37, a fairer question would be what is the highest number. What I liked about the questions is the thought (and puns) that have gone into them; that means if you get the answer you see it. A similar experience can happen with a good cryptic crossword clue e.g. Where track leaders come into view (8).
(i) TRA into SIGHT
Straight
rxwine
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September 19th, 2019 at 3:57:58 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

I agree on both counts. I could see a couple easy questions, but four of them?



Okay, what would be your casino category answers for Jeopardy if you were writing them?
There's no secret. Just know what you're talking about before you open your mouth.
EvenBob
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September 19th, 2019 at 4:18:04 PM permalink
Quote: tringlomane


I think you're terribly overreacting in your responses. But you are correct



That's because I was expecting something
good and got garbage instead. It really
pissed me off.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
EdCollins
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September 19th, 2019 at 5:49:21 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Barb, as to your "stuf" answer, I don't recall there being a pause after the first F, but recorded it and can look at it more carefully

Wiz, I don't believe that's what she's asking. I believe she's wondering if she noticeably paused during the game, possibly more the what the aired version indicates. If so, looking carefully at the recording won't help.

And if that's the case, I can't help either. And I was there in the studio too but no Babs, I absolutely can't remember one way or another how you answered that question.
beachbumbabs
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September 19th, 2019 at 6:50:35 PM permalink
Quote: EdCollins

Wiz, I don't believe that's what she's asking. I believe she's wondering if she noticeably paused during the game, possibly more the what the aired version indicates. If so, looking carefully at the recording won't help.

And if that's the case, I can't help either. And I was there in the studio too but no Babs, I absolutely can't remember one way or another how you answered that question.



That's exactly what I'm asking, Ed, thanks. I saw a couple people offer to check the tape, but I'm pretty sure the tape has been edited. I was looking for anyone who was there and heard it live, whether they remembered that tiny detail.

It's possible it only happened in my head, but my best recollection is that it happened in the play.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
GWAE
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September 19th, 2019 at 7:14:25 PM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs

That's exactly what I'm asking, Ed, thanks. I saw a couple people offer to check the tape, but I'm pretty sure the tape has been edited. I was looking for anyone who was there and heard it live, whether they remembered that tiny detail.

It's possible it only happened in my head, but my best recollection is that it happened in the play.



I wasnt there, but I mentioned a bit ago that there was a pause. I also believe it was edited because it seemed kinda weird. IMO something just seemed a little off. Is it possible for you to request an un edited copy?
Expect the worst and you will never be disappointed. I AM NOT PART OF GWAE RADIO SHOW
rsactuary
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September 19th, 2019 at 8:25:01 PM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs



I'm going to ask a question of you guys who were there. (This is complicated, please hang with me.) My brain was in hyperdrive, where every second was a long time. When I answered that Stuf question, I distinctly remember taking a pause after the first f and trying to decide whether it was one f, another f, or a d ("stufd") on the package. Was working it out while speaking.

Alex didn't say "correct" immediately, so I added the second f as my best chance. He immediately said "wrong", which gave away the correct answer as well as costing me control of the board. My wtf was that he hadn't said "correct" when I gave that pause and kept the game moving.

However, what you SAW was me immediately adding the 2nd f for a wrong answer. That's not my recollection, as above. I think they edited out the little pause in post-production. They routinely do that all through the show, finding the fractions of seconds of dead air and killing them to make the game fit into the time slot and keep up the pacing.

But I was in hyperdrive, and I could be wrong about that pause. It could have been just in my brain as I was answering and not in real time. Do you guys remember which way it actually happened? Either answer is fine, but it's a nagging question that threw me off in the moment, and I'd lIke to stop thinking about it.



I don't recall a slight pause. I thought you spelled "ff" without hesitating. Just my recollection.

Still, you should be soooo proud of yourself!
rsactuary
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beachbumbabs
September 19th, 2019 at 8:46:41 PM permalink
I think Jason should have been called wrong on his "The Mooch" answer.
tringlomane
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September 19th, 2019 at 11:50:41 PM permalink
Quote: rsactuary

I think Jason should have been called wrong on his "The Mooch" answer.



He should have at least been asked to be more specific.
EvenBob
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September 20th, 2019 at 12:20:52 AM permalink
Quote: tringlomane

He should have at least been asked to be more specific.



I dunno. If the correct answer is
Abraham Lincoln and the player
says 'Who is Honest Abe', we
all know who he means.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
RS
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September 20th, 2019 at 3:44:14 AM permalink
Jeopardy of course is a successful show since people are still watching it and you got all these people lined up trying to get on. The only people who "lose" on it are the contestants, in that it isn't exactly as "fair" as it probably should or could be. A more fair version of the game is going to be pretty boring to watch and at the end of the day, the most important aspect is the audience. None of the following would be as interesting as the game is now:

- Every question/answer is given and each contestant writes down their answer then the contestant either wins or loses however much that selection is worth.

- Every question is multiple choice and the first to buzz in with clicker or button A, B, C, or D is awarded the win or loss. With similarly difficult questions, the game would then become far too easy. Part of it, at least for me, is just trying to figure out WTF the question is even asking.

- Everyone plays by themselves. First Jason goes on stage and plays trying to answer as many as he can, then babs goes out there (same categories/questions), and then Jon. This of course is going to get pretty damn boring because the viewer already knows the questions when the second and third contestants come on stage.

- You can buzz in as soon as you want, before the question is fully asked. The game would be changed so that the question disappears when the first person buzzes in, so that he can't just buzz in super early then finish reading then answer...pretty much forcing you to have to know the answer before buzzing in. Of course, there are problems with this approach too, because (I'd imagine?) the viewers wouldn't like it because the contestant would just answer so quickly. I think it was on some other game show called "The Beast" where James Holzhaur had to answer as many questions in a 30 or 60 second window....he answered many of the questions well before the question was finished being asked (and it was all verbal, not written).


It just kinda sucks for the contestants that there is so much weight on the buzzer game. A game where (IMO) the winner should be the person who is the best at trivia should win but instead it's more based on this physical element of the buzzer speed. I'm certainly not the first one to have the ideas (above), but it's obvious none of those would work. As far as double jeopardy, I'd think a possibly realistic change could be to make it so it's more of like final jeopardy, where everyone gets an opportunity to wager and guess.
ThatDonGuy
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September 20th, 2019 at 9:10:19 AM permalink
Quote: RS

- You can buzz in as soon as you want, before the question is fully asked.


The original (1960s/70s NBC, Art Fleming) version did it this way, but the question was fully read (mainly for the benefit of the viewers, I am guessing) before the contestant had to answer. I think the first season of the Trebek version did the same thing, but I'm not sure.

Quote: RS

It just kinda sucks for the contestants that there is so much weight on the buzzer game.


I think it was in the finals of the 30th Anniversary tournament, with Brad Rutter, Ken Jennings, and Roger Craig, where Alex asked them what was the secret of their success, and all three agreed - it was timing their buzz-ins correctly.
Ayecarumba
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beachbumbabs
September 20th, 2019 at 9:17:26 AM permalink
The formula works. The buzzer adds a physical element to the game which, I assume not based on any data, has a bias toward players with good eyes, quick reflexes and stronger fingers. I think this would tend to be younger males.

The only improvement I would suggest is to display buzzer stats for each player. For example:
- The time between when the first buzz in was made available and when a player actually buzzed in.
- The differential between the first to buzz in, and the trailers.

Like "Reaction Time" and "Elapsed Time" at a drag race.
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - Leonardo da Vinci
Wizard
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September 20th, 2019 at 10:02:59 AM permalink
I've heard there are different people that control the buzzer and the light that indicates its safe to buzz. If you trust the light, you will lose.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
Mosca
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September 20th, 2019 at 11:14:29 AM permalink
Seeing as how I haven't really paid attention to this topic, and didn't even know this was happening, and we haven't watched Jeopardy for probably 6 months:

We watch Jeopardy the other night, and Babs we didn't know that was you but we rooted for you anyway, just based on the way that you came across! We didn't know it was you but we want you to win.

Good show. Like many Jeopardies, this was pretty obviously a game where everyone knew the answers but it was the person who got the buzzer first who won.
A falling knife has no handle.
gamerfreak
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September 20th, 2019 at 11:17:59 AM permalink
To make it more fair, couldnít they create a box with the light/buzzer that simulates what is on the show exactly, and send it to contestants to practice with before their taping?
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