Thread Rating:

Nareed
Nareed
Joined: Nov 11, 2009
  • Threads: 373
  • Posts: 11413
November 6th, 2011 at 4:01:40 AM permalink
Quote: NowTheSerpent

A miracle is a subjective experience; a remission of a tumor is an objective fact. There is no lack of evidence for the auspiciousness of the Universe and its Causalities, just a lack of evidence that miracles are measurable, isolable "things" other than perceptions.



So how can you tell this particular case was a miracle, facilitated by a specific dead person, rather than, say, a joke on all Catholics perpetrated by Loki?
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
Wizard
Administrator
Wizard 
Joined: Oct 14, 2009
  • Threads: 1392
  • Posts: 23457
November 6th, 2011 at 5:43:36 AM permalink
Quote: odiousgambit

Here is a "homily topic", Fr. Gamble! Should we question why miracles aren't used more to convert unbelievers?



When Jesus returned to his home town didn't he try to do a miracle but wasn't able to because the crowd was so skeptical? When I asked your question to a Christian friend years ago he speculated that this was the reason, it is difficult to get a miracle going surrounded by skeptics. In that case, no wonder I never see any.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
Nareed
Nareed
Joined: Nov 11, 2009
  • Threads: 373
  • Posts: 11413
November 6th, 2011 at 6:04:57 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

When Jesus returned to his home town didn't he try to do a miracle but wasn't able to because the crowd was so skeptical?



Interesting. that's often the excuse of "psychics" and other people when keen observers watch their attempts to fool the gullible.

Quote:

When I asked your question to a Christian friend years ago he speculated that this was the reason, it is difficult to get a miracle going surrounded by skeptics. In that case, no wonder I never see any.



What can possibly be difficult for an omnipotent being?

Seriously, how does this sound: god can create the universe and everything upon it, but he can't perform in front of a skeptical crowd? To me it sounds like god likes playing with a fixed deck.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
FrGamble
FrGamble
Joined: Jun 5, 2011
  • Threads: 27
  • Posts: 790
November 6th, 2011 at 8:13:58 AM permalink
Throughout the Gospel of Mark there is a theme called the 'Messianic Secret'. It refers to how Jesus whenever he performs a miracle or whenever demons, who know who he is, get expelled and start shrieking that Jesus is the Son of God he quiets them immediately or asks those who received the miracle not to tell anyone. Why does he do this? Jesus does not want us to believe in Him because of some miracle or as some wonder worker. If we looked at him as some type of all powerful wizard this would hinder the type of real relationship God wants to have with us. Jesus wants us to look at Him as a friend, a brother, someone who we can turn to in any need, who understands us, and one who loves us and ultimately one who is willing to give his life for us. The only time the words, "Truly this man was the Son of God" are allowed to be uttered in Mark's Gospel is from the Centurion at the foot of the Cross. Jesus' wants us to see Him as God not in miracles, but in the supreme act of sacrificial love.

With this being said maybe its not skepticism that stops Jesus from preforming miracles, but maybe God realizes that miracles to the skeptic, even if believed, will not engender the type of real loving relationship He is after.
Nareed
Nareed
Joined: Nov 11, 2009
  • Threads: 373
  • Posts: 11413
November 6th, 2011 at 8:21:20 AM permalink
Quote: FrGamble

Jesus' wants us to see Him as God not in miracles, but in the supreme act of sacrificial love.



What sacrifice? What did he give up? He wasn't killed, he couldn't be killed. He had nothing to lose. He cannot have anything to lose.

A being like that who coerces or even asks people, who can and have plenty to lose, to perform real sacrifices is sadistic and cruel. If that's your god, even if he exists, you can have the monster. I want no part of him.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
Scotty71
Scotty71
Joined: Mar 5, 2011
  • Threads: 19
  • Posts: 289
November 6th, 2011 at 8:39:58 AM permalink
Geez Nareed, you make nothing but sour condescending quotes wherever you go. Maybe your cats love you.
when man determined to destroy himself he picked the was of shall and finding only why smashed it into because." — E.E. Cummings
Scotty71
Scotty71
Joined: Mar 5, 2011
  • Threads: 19
  • Posts: 289
November 6th, 2011 at 9:18:39 AM permalink
A new priest, born and raised in Texas, comes to serve in a city parish and is nervous about hearing confessions, so he asks the older priest to sit in on his sessions.

The new priest hears a couple of confessions, then the old priest asks him to step out of the confessional for a few suggestions.

The old priest suggests, "Cross your arms over your chest, and rub your chin with one hand and try saying things like 'yes, I see,' and 'yes, go on,' and 'I understand.'

The new priest crosses his arms, rubs his chin with one hand and repeats all the suggested remarks to the old priest.

The old priest says, "Now, don't you think that's a little better than slapping your knee and saying, "No shit, what happened next?"
when man determined to destroy himself he picked the was of shall and finding only why smashed it into because." — E.E. Cummings
Nareed
Nareed
Joined: Nov 11, 2009
  • Threads: 373
  • Posts: 11413
November 6th, 2011 at 9:45:04 AM permalink
Quote: Scotty71

Geez Nareed, you make nothing but sour condescending quotes wherever you go.



Condescending is a deity who pantomimes giving up something he cannot give up.

Quote:

Maybe your cats love you.



Ah, another expression of Christian love.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
odiousgambit
odiousgambit
Joined: Nov 9, 2009
  • Threads: 311
  • Posts: 8622
November 6th, 2011 at 10:29:37 AM permalink
Quote: FrGamble

Throughout the Gospel of Mark there is a theme called the 'Messianic Secret'.



Well, I learned something. Thanks, good answer.
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!” She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
Mosca
Mosca
Joined: Dec 14, 2009
  • Threads: 180
  • Posts: 3828
November 6th, 2011 at 10:49:43 AM permalink
Quote: Nareed

What sacrifice? What did he give up? He wasn't killed, he couldn't be killed. He had nothing to lose. He cannot have anything to lose.

A being like that who coerces or even asks people, who can and have plenty to lose, to perform real sacrifices is sadistic and cruel. If that's your god, even if he exists, you can have the monster. I want no part of him.



If you want no part of him, then why don't you just ignore a topic titled "Celebrate religion here"? I mean, seriously. Because what you're doing appears to be unfriendly, to me at least. Some folks want to celebrate, why crash the party? Part of our glue is mutual respect for our differences, not a desire to change others to our own ways, after all.
NO KILL I

  • Jump to: