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Scotty71
Scotty71
Joined: Mar 5, 2011
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November 6th, 2011 at 11:48:06 AM permalink
Quote: Mosca

Quote: Nareed

What sacrifice? What did he give up? He wasn't killed, he couldn't be killed. He had nothing to lose. He cannot have anything to lose.

A being like that who coerces or even asks people, who can and have plenty to lose, to perform real sacrifices is sadistic and cruel. If that's your god, even if he exists, you can have the monster. I want no part of him.



If you want no part of him, then why don't you just ignore a topic titled "Celebrate religion here"? I mean, seriously. Because what you're doing appears to be unfriendly, to me at least. Some folks want to celebrate, why crash the party? Part of our glue is mutual respect for our differences, not a desire to change others to our own ways, after all.



Hear hear. The good Fr. put out a piece about something inspirational to some it is a miracle, it may inspire some, give others hope. But what you don't like about this "miracle" is the lack of empiracle evidence. Yes, telling you that maybe your cats love you was not nice, and actually I have felt bad about it, but not as bad as you should feel about calling the Christian G_D a monster. I truly feel bad for you, not because you aren't accepting of religion but because you are such a sour person and miss no opportunity to sneeze on the cupcakes at a birthday party. It's obvious that you worship at the altar of self, if thats your god I too want no part of that monster. Most people want the world to be a better place for the next generation, their children, whatever you want to say. And thats a hard thing to accomplish without hope and inspiration. I think when you question inspiration and something beautiful because the person thanks G_D for it and not science or their own willpower it's just bitterness. Balanced happy people typically aren't prowling for opportunities to shit on others.
It's a miracle... a word floated into my mind...... Narcissistic, per wikipedia "To the extent that people are pathologically narcissistic, they can be controlling, blaming, self-absorbed, intolerant of others’ views, unaware of others' needs and of the effects of their behavior on others, and insistent that others see them as they wish to be seen"
I wish you peace

-Scott
when man determined to destroy himself he picked the was of shall and finding only why smashed it into because." — E.E. Cummings
rxwine
rxwine
Joined: Feb 28, 2010
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November 6th, 2011 at 11:59:46 AM permalink
Quote: NowTheSerpent

Since the Pope is considered Vicar Christi ("regent of Christ") on earth, is there really any spiritual or moral difference between the Pope opening the Special Box and Christ opening it? Is the Box effectively the Council of Propagation of the Faith (i.e., the Inquisition forces), which could compel confessions of penitence and faith upon pain of death, thereby making people "believers"?



Actually, I was trying to tweak the idea that even if God gave some physical evidence that could do something extraordinary (I'm not really describing the method), but forbade its examination, then true believers, based on claims of faith, don't need it anyway.

They already say their faith is firm, apparently enough to model their whole life's actions around their faith. So, surely, even if their God gave them such a direct way to access to his presence and power on a global scale, since they already believe in him, they know that the command not to access it is from the real God already.

It's similar to the idea that if someone claims to invent a perpetual motion machine. If you already say you have total faith in the claims of his perpetual motion machine, you don't need any further evidence, even if the inventor says you can't have full access to examination of the machine.

So, I figure believers faith is so strong they wouldn't have need of examining miracles, or being able to question Jesus directly, or whatever it might be.

Christians are similar to believers of perpetual motion machines who have enough evidence to act as if it is all true.

As far as i know, the only perpetual motion machines (closed system) that have been invented by people, are the ones no one can really examine thoroughly. So, perhaps they really exist. But that's not good enough for me, or a lot of other people who don't believe the claims.
Quasimodo? Does that name ring a bell?
Nareed
Nareed
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November 6th, 2011 at 12:14:53 PM permalink
Quote: Scotty71

Yes, telling you that maybe your cats love you was not nice, and actually I have felt bad about it,



I don't believe you.

Quote:

It's a miracle... a word floated into my mind...... Narcissistic,



Because that's not what you'd call nice, either, all the more so since it's baseless. Not to mention all the condescension and unwarranted assumptions you could fit into a single post.

Can you try to respond to an argument rather than engage in personal attacks?
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
Nareed
Nareed
Joined: Nov 11, 2009
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November 6th, 2011 at 12:19:47 PM permalink
Quote: rxwine

Christians are similar to believers of perpetual motion machines who have enough evidence to act as if it is all true.



Very apt.

Since this is a Vegas forum with an emphasis on gambling, though, let me ask: if someone posts a system to beat the casino, should it be questioned? Should proof be demanded? Or should we accept it on faith?

The same goes for other impossible claims. If FrGamble wants to post about a miracle, that's his privilege. If others want to go along and treat such claims as fact, that's their right. But they should expect some here will question the claim, and when presented with supporting arguments will question those too.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
EvenBob
EvenBob
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November 6th, 2011 at 1:08:05 PM permalink
Quote: Nareed

What sacrifice? What did he give up? He wasn't killed, he couldn't be killed.



I have to admit, the so called 'sacriface' is the weakest part
of Christianity to me. Jesus was 33, in a time when the average
lifespan was 40. He was late middle aged for that period. He
had no family. He was killed with a method the Roman's had
used on over 100,000 people already, it was extremely common.

Where is the sacrifice? Its not like he would have lived forever.
Nobody has ever proven original sin even exists, its pure intellectual
speculation. So Jesus dies to save mankind from an idea that
makes no logical sense? I'm much more interested in what Jesus
taught than in the carnival show of miracles, and healings, and
dying for sins. That stuff is just too odd..
"It's not enough to succeed, your friends must fail." Gore Vidal
EvenBob
EvenBob
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November 6th, 2011 at 1:13:03 PM permalink
Quote: Nareed

Since this is a Vegas forum with an emphasis on gambling, though, let me ask: if someone posts a system to beat the casino, should it be questioned? Should proof be demanded? Or should we accept it on faith?



I don't know FrGambles background, but most priests
grew up in the faith. Look at a heavy hitter like father
Jonathan Morris, who we see on TV all the time. He
was raised a Catholic, went to Catholic schools, had the
religion pounded into his head since he was a baby. Its
that way for most priests, they question nothing because
they've been told the earth is flat since infancy, and
surround themselves with people who believe the same way.
"It's not enough to succeed, your friends must fail." Gore Vidal
Scotty71
Scotty71
Joined: Mar 5, 2011
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November 6th, 2011 at 2:45:13 PM permalink
Quote: Nareed

I don't believe you.



Because that's not what you'd call nice, either, all the more so since it's baseless. Not to mention all the condescension and unwarranted assumptions you could fit into a single post.

Can you try to respond to an argument rather than engage in personal attacks?



Nothing to argue but I apologize.
when man determined to destroy himself he picked the was of shall and finding only why smashed it into because." — E.E. Cummings
odiousgambit
odiousgambit
Joined: Nov 9, 2009
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November 6th, 2011 at 3:01:45 PM permalink
Quote: Nareed

Can you try to respond to an argument rather than engage in personal attacks?



Nareed, how about constructive criticism? I think Scotty started out with that in mind. There is such a thing as a sense of propriety that should be known amongst all regardless of sect. Does something you believe give license to observe no boundaries? You are giving needless offense over matters that weaken your arguments, and they are things that violate common propriety.
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!” She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
FrGamble
FrGamble
Joined: Jun 5, 2011
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November 6th, 2011 at 3:15:23 PM permalink
Quote: Nareed


Since this is a Vegas forum with an emphasis on gambling, though, let me ask: if someone posts a system to beat the casino, should it be questioned? Should proof be demanded? Or should we accept it on faith?



The advantage play is religion. Religion is about believing in a strategy that has been shown to be helpful to billions of people. Religion is more like counting cards (never thought I would write that in my life;). It is a reasonable way to deal with life without giving in to the idea that life is complete randomness and can't be understood or made sense of.
EvenBob
EvenBob
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November 6th, 2011 at 3:33:22 PM permalink
Quote: FrGamble

It is a reasonable way to deal with life without giving in to the idea that life is complete randomness and can't be understood or made sense of.



Religion offers structure to many people who would be
lost without it. Whether its true or not, is really beside
the point. Its helps people get along, which is the
important thing.
"It's not enough to succeed, your friends must fail." Gore Vidal

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