2020 Election
Quote: Keyser
It's faux offended, it's not real. They
think if they act outraged at every
little thing it will get them what
they want. What it does in reality
is disgust people and make you look
like a screaming nutjob, the little
kid who rants at his parents till
he gets his own way.
Quote: AZDuffmanLets try this another way.
It is understood that Kamala Harris slept her way into government. Now, if she is the nominee are you going to say, "I will not vote for a tramp who slept her way in!?"
Or will you pull the "D" lever like it was a progressive slot you know is about to pay off?
Will you put party after country?
Voting a demagogue out of office is the definition of putting country over party.
Quote: SteverinosWages were 43% of GDI in 2017, the latest year we have the data on. They were 51.6 in 1970. Wages have been on the decline as a share of GDI for 50 years. And only 32% of Americans have a 401k.
Said it before, say it again. The day we STOP measuring the economy by how rich people are doing is the day we inch closer to #MAGA.
And it’s about as worthless as every other time you said it.
And my usual answer is the same, when was the last time a “poor” person hired anyone?
I’ll throw in anyone who doesn’t contribute to an IRA/ 401K or other retirement plan is making a huge mistake.
Very few of your listed 68% (which is incorrect) can’t afford at least $10 a week with a slight change in spending. But we both agree you can’t teach Work Ethic & Common Sense.
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/03/18/how-many-americans-have-access-to-a-401k-and-how-to-save-for-retirement-without-one.html
CNBC report that shows your numbers as WRONG, but still sad. Basic story that should be must reading. Hell they should put it on Packs of Cigarettes. Of course it would do as much good as the SG Warning on them.
Quote: rxwineKamala Harris would still hold so much moral high ground over trump it’s not even an issue for me.
I see, so you will vote for a Tramp as long as there is a "D" next to her name.
Moral high ground? Someone who thinks bussing was a good idea and supports slavery reparations?
You do realize you could vote third party or just not vote at all if you like neither candidate?
Quote: BozAnd my usual answer is the same, when was the last time a “poor” person hired anyone?
Rich people do not create jobs. Consumers create jobs.
Quote: SteverinosRich people do not create jobs. Consumers create jobs.
You’re the best man, truly the best. The complete tops!
Can’t think of enough complimentary words to use for the joy you give me. And the motivation to go out and do more good in the world to prove people like you wrong.
The hell with Oz writing a book about his life story, you should and I’ll preorder the first copy. It definitely would be fascinating reading how someone ends up with such extreme views on America and it’s citizens.
Try Page Publishing. Has to sell more than Acosta did.
https://www.pagepublishing.com/
The United States economy is built on middle class consumer spending. More money in middle class consumer pockets, more money in everybody's pockets. So when a tax bill is passed that has 80% of its benefits going to a very small group of people, YES, I believe this is fundamentally the wrong direction.
Quote: SteverinosRich people do not create jobs. Consumers create jobs.
Nope.
There are a lot of consumers in Venezuela, but how many jobs are there?
Supply comes first, then demand follows.
Why do you hate "rich people" so much? Have you never had a "rich person" hire you?
Quote: AZDuffmanNope.
Supply comes first, then demand follows.
I am certain circuit city believed that when they created DIVX
https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/18/us/berkeley-gendered-language-ban-trnd/index.html
You can’t call a Manhole in the street a Manhole anymore?
Once again, you can’t make this stuff up.
OK to sh#t in the streets in San Fran, but not OK to be a policeMAN in Berkeley.
Quote: AZDuffman
Why do you hate "rich people" so much? Have you never had a "rich person" hire you?
Never once got hired by a poor
guy. And yup, first the goods are
made available by a rich guy, then
comes demand. There is huge
demand in most 3rd world countries,
where is this magical supply that's
supposed to follow?
Quote: AZDuffmanSupply comes first, then demand follows.
I fundamentally disagree. Inadequate demand destroys supply.
Quote: darkozI am certain circuit city believed that when they created DIVX
Probably did, that is why they invested to make it.
Others had more successful products. Men like Drake, Rockefeller, Carnegie, Ford, Gates, Jobs, and more.
Lets not forget Bugsy Ben Siegel who rightly grasped the concept that people did not want to gamble at places with sawdust on the floor. That one took a bit of time to catch on, but the supply was there before the demand.
Quote: AZDuffman
Why do you hate "rich people" so much? Have you never had a "rich person" hire you?
Yep. Could have written a book called "9 years a slave"
But seriously the guy was born rich, his mom stole his inheritance and confessed to it on her deathbed.
He bragged about how great he was all the time.
He lost most of his fortune when the towers collapsed and then decided to stiff all his creditors. He died hundreds of thousands in debt.
He taught me never to fire a person -- just make their lives so miserable they quit -- in order to avoid paying unemployment benefits for that person.
Oh and btw, he gave me most of my lessons on how to hide taxes so he paid as little as possible and actually demoted me when I upped his business output 20% one year because he had to report it to IRS.(yeah, this scumbag sounds like a hero to you probably)
Its only one experience working for a guy with lots of dough but if that is who we are working to improve the lives of, you haven't convinced me its a worthy cause
Quote: AZDuffmanProbably did, that is why they invested to make it.
Others had more successful products. Men like DRAKE, ...
.
You dont seem like the Rapper type of guy
Quote: SteverinosI fundamentally disagree. Inadequate demand destroys supply.
Which is followed by new supply.
By the 1980s you could not sell a bias-ply tire, because someone came up with the new radial tire.
But lets keep it very simple. Imagine a primitive tribe where everyone makes their own tools to hunt. One guy, lets call him Oooga-Booga, finds a way to make a better tool. So good he can make the tool and trade it to hunters for food as he does not like running all over the place with pointed sticks.
So Oooga-Booga makes these tools and trades them for food. Which came first, supply or demand?
This goes on all over. James Cash Penny had to build his stores before consumers came to them. Henry Ford had to build the factories before the first car could be offered for sale. And as two of us have pointed out, look at all the Third World nations with plenty of demand. They are broke because there is no supply.
So, you are against IFQ's?Quote: SteverinosYou believe the supply comes first. I believe the demand comes first. I'm happy to have this very fundamental debate. Let's have Nick get us started.
The United States economy is built on middle class consumer spending. More money in middle class consumer pockets, more money in everybody's pockets. So when a tax bill is passed that has 80% of its benefits going to a very small group of people, YES, I believe this is fundamentally the wrong direction.
Quote: AZDuffman
This goes on all over. James Cash Penny had to build his stores before consumers came to them
Sears is an even better example. People
had no idea they needed all the
thousands of items in the first Sears
catalogs. Sears created a gigantic supply,
and the demand grew exponentially.
Hula Hoops, there was zero demand for
the stupid things. A supply was created
and they sold millions of them.
A really good example is the telephone.
No demand whatsoever, in fact people
thought it was a worthless idea that would
die as a fad. The phones were supplied
and demand grew like wildfire.
The gas mask is a great example of how supply came first... and totally failed! (Created for miners no rich mining companies valued human life enough to purchase them)
Until the demand (WWI and Mustard gas weapons) made it a success
Quote: Dalex64I think someone is confusing "invention" or "speculation" with "supply"
I think you are the one confused. Inventing something IS creating supply. Speculating IS creating supply.
Quote: AZDuffmanI think you are the one confused. Inventing something IS creating supply. Speculating IS creating supply.
Watching hundreds of episodes of shark tank I am not certain its as easy as just creating supplies.
Quote: darkozYep. Could have written a book called "9 years a slave"
But seriously the guy was born rich, his mom stole his inheritance and confessed to it on her deathbed.
He bragged about how great he was all the time.
He lost most of his fortune when the towers collapsed and then decided to stiff all his creditors. He died hundreds of thousands in debt.
He taught me never to fire a person -- just make their lives so miserable they quit -- in order to avoid paying unemployment benefits for that person.
Oh and btw, he gave me most of my lessons on how to hide taxes so he paid as little as possible and actually demoted me when I upped his business output 20% one year because he had to report it to IRS.(yeah, this scumbag sounds like a hero to you probably)
Its only one experience working for a guy with lots of dough but if that is who we are working to improve the lives of, you haven't convinced me its a worthy cause
I think that bus bench made you a tad bitter. It wasn't his fault.
Quote: darkozWatching hundreds of episodes of shark tank I am not certain its as easy as just creating supplies.
If you watch "Shark Tank" then you should understand that supply comes first. You should understand investing and what kind of ROI you need to make it viable.
About half the deals you see on TV make it past due diligence. Of the half that go thru, many fail or are just marginally profitable. Perhaps 10% are home runs.
Making a business go is not at all easy, as these numbers show. So, when you tell my girl Lori Grenier that she has to give 10% of that income away so we can give health care to illegal aliens, well, Lori is going to elect to spend more time on her boat. No business gets started and no jobs happen.
Quote: darkozWatching hundreds of episodes of shark tank I am not certain its as easy as just creating supplies.
For- profit prisons.
Boom. Roasted.
Quote: darkozWatching hundreds of episodes of shark tank I am not certain its as easy as just creating supplies.
You have to actually supply something
people want, duh.. There was no huge
demand for cars in this country until
Henry Ford started making cheap ones.
Then demand went thru the roof.
People usually have no idea what
they want until they actually see it.
Quote: rxwineThe example of Venezuela was wrong. Demand will eventually drive supply. It’s irrelevant to the point that it is not occurring immediately.
Not irrelevant at all. There's no
supply because there's no way
to do it profitably. It's that way
in all 3rd world craphole countries.
You can demand all you want, but
if there's no money to be made,
feggitaboutit..
so long I hit send again.
Twenty years of socialism have proved that to be totally false. It's a good thing that nobody held their breath waiting for utopia. PDVSA made sure of that.Quote: rxwineThe example of Venezuela was wrong. Demand will eventually drive supply. It’s irrelevant to the point that it is not occurring immediately.
Quote: rxwineThe example of Venezuela was wrong. Demand will eventually drive supply. It’s irrelevant to the point that it is not occurring immediately.
No, it is SPOT ON!
A generation ago it was the richest nation in South America. Now they cannot even put the bare necessities in stores. Did that demand just dry up? People did not want food? Or was it that there was zero profit to be made. "The rich had to pay their fair share!" So supply disappeared. Supply will not return until there is a profit for selling things.
All these people who support socialism need to look at what has happened there. Biggest oil reserves in the world and short on gasoline!
Quote: EvenBobYou have to actually supply something
people want, duh.. There was no huge
demand for cars in this country until
Henry Ford started making cheap ones.
Then demand went thru the roof.
People usually have no idea what
they want until they actually see it.
Quit being a doo-doo head. You are old enough to remember the early 1960s when tourists were standing in swamps waiting for someone to build a theme park resort.
Does that includes the millions of teachers and the millions of workers in nonprofits who have 403B's? And how about all those public service workers with 457's and 457B's? Not to mention how many holders of IRA's, including Roths and SEP's there are. Makes for a truly a misleading statistic.Quote: SteverinosAnd only 32% of Americans have a 401k.
Quote: SanchoPanzaTwenty years of socialism have proved that to be totally false. It's a good thing that nobody held their breath waiting for utopia. PDVSA made sure of that.
If you want to talk about factors other than demand and supply that’s fine. But my point is still correct.
Quote: Steverinos
He gave that speech in 2012.
Pretty much made Trump's point.
He said it was dead wrong to believe “If taxes on the rich go up, job creation will go down.”
Taxes on the rich went down and 5.6 million jobs were created.
Acceleration in Jobs growth, even with Unemployment Rate at New Lows
“If no one was around who could afford to buy what we had to sell, all those companies and all those jobs would have evaporated.”
The tax cuts created jobs by putting more money in the pockets of the consumers who were able to afford to make more purchases and thus create more jobs.
Hiring by US businesses hits record high. 1.6 million more jobs than unemployed. - CNBC
7.3 million current job openings- BLS
“If it was true that lowering taxes for the rich and creating more wealth for the wealthy, led to job creation, today we would be drowning in jobs.”
We are. More than 5.6 million jobs created, and 1.6 million more jobs than unemployed. Plus 7.3 million current job openings.
“And yet unemployment and under employment is at record highs.”
Unemployment at 50 year Low, might drop a lot further -WAPO
“Buried by spiraling costs, and trapped by stagnant or declining wages.”
He used a graph from 2009 to illustrate this.
US wage growth hit a nine year high in 2018.
More important, Real Wages which were relatively stagnant over the fifty years, grew 1.5% between June 2018 and June 2019.
“When the middle class thrives, businesses grow and hire and owners profit.”
We have business growth, record hiring and record profits. Middle Class must be thriving.
“Taxing the rich to make the middle class grow and thrive is the single shrewdest thing that we can do for the middle class, the poor and for the rich.”
They can leave the country and take their businesses with them.
People are fleeing New York, California, Connecticut, Illinois and New Jersey because of taxes.
Quote: AZDuffmanQuit being a doo-doo head. You are old enough to remember the early 1960s when tourists were standing in swamps waiting for someone to build a theme park resort.
"Build it and they will come." Sound
familiar? There were many who thought
Walt Disney was out of his mind to sink
everything he had into Disneyland, there
was no demand for such a place. He created
the demand.
You don't think sanctions have anything to do with it? pfftQuote: AZDuffmanNo, it is SPOT ON!
A generation ago it was the richest nation in South America. Now they cannot even put the bare necessities in stores. Did that demand just dry up? People did not want food? Or was it that there was zero profit to be made. "The rich had to pay their fair share!" So supply disappeared. Supply will not return until there is a profit for selling things.
All these people who support socialism need to look at what has happened there. Biggest oil reserves in the world and short on gasoline!
Why is the US trying to destabilize Venezuela? It was the richest country in SA, the west dare not let the world see that a government that shares the wealth of it's country with it's people instead of it's oligarchs is fantastically popular.
Why does the US support Saudi Arabia, a one product country that is a brutal dictatorship, yet try to destabilize a forward thinking SA country that wants to provide health care and education for it's citizens.
That dog don't hunt.
Gasoline in Venezuela last I saw was about .16 per gallon. https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2018/08/05/world/politics-diplomacy-world/3-million-liters-1-far-can-venezuela-go-raising-price-worlds-cheapest-gas/#.XTDhP-hKjIUQuote: AZDuffmanNo, it is SPOT ON!
A generation ago it was the richest nation in South America. Now they cannot even put the bare necessities in stores. Did that demand just dry up? People did not want food? Or was it that there was zero profit to be made. "The rich had to pay their fair share!" So supply disappeared. Supply will not return until there is a profit for selling things.
All these people who support socialism need to look at what has happened there. Biggest oil reserves in the world and short on gasoline!
Quote: petroglyphYou don't think sanctions have anything to do with it? pfft
Why is the US trying to destabilize Venezuela? It was the richest country in SA, the west dare not let the world see that a government that shares the wealth of it's country with it's people instead of it's oligarchs is fantastically popular.
Sanctions had nothing to do with it. It was Chavez for a decade destroying the country with socialism. All that wealth was destroyed.
Quote:Why does the US support Saudi Arabia, a one product country that is a brutal dictatorship, yet try to destabilize a forward thinking SA country that wants to provide health care and education for it's citizens.
That dog don't hunt.
We do not "support" SA. We trade with them and we are allies. Chavez chose to be a USA enemy, preferring to follow the model of Cuba for whatever reason. It worked, he made Venezuela as big a basket case as Cuba. Chavez took over in 1999.
Quote: wikipediaEconomists say that the Venezuelan government's overspending on social programs and strict business policies contributed to imbalances in the country's economy, contributing to rising inflation, poverty, low healthcare spending and shortages in Venezuela going into the final years of his presidency
Constrain supply, things collapse. The demand remained.
It's all about money and power, same as ever.
Not a word from the left or the right. Why not? We are starving millions of people to death. We are selling billions and billions of arms to Saudi Arabia who financed and planned the 911 disaster that cost the united states thousands of lives. The only candidate saying anything at all is Tulsi Gabbard, and in the background Rand Paul. Patriots, pfft.
Do you really support an 800 billion dollar military budget, per year, as far into the future as the eye can see? How can you imagine that many threats?
It's like that soda pop issue in NYC. Sure some people want it. I don't know how much good selling it generates. Some people just want to make money selling it. It certainly is maximum freedom selling anything to anyone.
In my opinion, give people a hand basket, and many will get in and go to hell in it. My biggest objection is the effect on the rest of us, or the cost, not so much where they've chosen to go.
Quote: rxwineOne of the other issues of supply and demand, and I think it's one of those things that divides right and left is whether we should have freedom to sell anything that's demanded.
It's like that soda pop issue in NYC. Sure some people want it. I don't know how much good selling it generates. Some people just want to make money selling it. It certainly is maximum freedom selling anything to anyone.
In my opinion, give people a hand basket, and many will get in and go to hell in it. My biggest objection is the effect on the rest of us, or the cost, not so much where they've chosen to go.
There are 3 things one can purchase almost anywhere in NYC.
Alcohol
Cigarettes
Soda pop.
Which one did Mayor Bloomberg think was the most detrimental so other people were paying for the sins of the purchasers?
Quote: petroglyphGasoline in Venezuela last I saw was about .16 per gallon. https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2018/08/05/world/politics-diplomacy-world/3-million-liters-1-far-can-venezuela-go-raising-price-worlds-cheapest-gas/#.XTDhP-hKjIU
Yep, but there is no supply. Oooops.
https://www.npr.org/2019/06/19/733955656/venezuela-faces-gas-shortages
Quote: darkozThere are 3 things one can purchase almost anywhere in NYC.
Alcohol
Cigarettes
Soda pop.
Which one did Mayor Bloomberg think was the most detrimental so other people were paying for the sins of the purchasers?
Soda
Quote: rxwineOne of the other issues of supply and demand, and I think it's one of those things that divides right and left is whether we should have freedom to sell anything that's demanded.
It's like that soda pop issue in NYC. Sure some people want it. I don't know how much good selling it generates. Some people just want to make money selling it. It certainly is maximum freedom selling anything to anyone.
In my opinion, give people a hand basket, and many will get in and go to hell in it. My biggest objection is the effect on the rest of us, or the cost, not so much where they've chosen to go.
Of course people want to make money selling soda pop. Otherwise they would not sell it. The who thing in NYC is nanny state gone wild.
Soda pop has no "effect" on the rest of us.
Quote: AZDuffmanSanctions had nothing to do with it. It was Chavez for a decade destroying the country with socialism. All that wealth was destroyed.
There was a guy on a gambling
forum from 2006-10 from
there. He hated the US with a
vengeance and LOVED Chavez.
But then things started disappearing.
Newspapers, TV stations, whole
industries were shut down.
Even after Chavez closed all the
casinos because he couldn't
get his hands on more of their
money, even then this guy hated
the US and loved Chavez. I wonder
how he feels today. Probably blames
the US for all their problems.
Wealth is no more destroyed than you can destroy energy. It moves. Bush was oil, he couldn't let Chavez look good, especially when his family was invested in Kuwaiti oil. The west must save face at any cost. We [$] lost another big round today with Russia signing on to an alternate SWIFT payment system.Quote: AZDuffmanSanctions had nothing to do with it. It was Chavez for a decade destroying the country with socialism. All that wealth was destroyed.
What do you think would happen if Madurro commandeered 3 airliners and crashed them into the worlds largest economic center and killed 3 thousand Americans? We haven't even investigated the Saudi support of the hijackers. With Allies like that, who needs enemy's?Quote:We do not "support" SA. We trade with them and we are allies. Chavez chose to be a USA enemy, preferring to follow the model of Cuba for whatever reason. It worked, he made Venezuela as big a basket case as Cuba. Chavez took over in 1999.
And the US continues to "print". Chavez wouldn't kiss Bush's backside.Quote:Quote: wikipediaEconomists say that the Venezuelan government's overspending on social programs and strict business policies contributed to imbalances in the country's economy, contributing to rising inflation, poverty, low healthcare spending and shortages in Venezuela going into the final years of his presidency
Constrain supply, things collapse. The demand remained.
You know as well as I, that Venezuelan heavy crude would be a perfect blend for our light frac oil, that is only happening because of fiat. " Only pigs can walk on two feet."
