2016 Election
Quote: RonCSavage is a radio host. If the liberals had a successful radio host, they would have some that made outlandish statements in order to help gain ratings.
That is your opinion and in no way a fact.
(Maddow was a radio host before she got the MSNBC gig.)
Quote:Maddow has made statements that are not true, but may not be crazy. I said that.
She stood by the statements you claimed aren't true and you didn't provide any further evidence that they were false....
Quote:Soros is pulling the strings of lots of shadowy right-wing groups and have many Democrat politicians in their pocket.....
How you Liberals somehow think your poop doesn't smell just as bad as the other sides, I don't know. Somehow it is okay that Soros does it; it is horrid that the Koch Bros. do it.
Talk about crazy!
Ya know what, sometimes one side's poop smells worse than the other's. This is another excellent example of a false equivalence.
In this case, the Koch's poop smells worse than Soros's.
The Kochs funnel more money than Soros into the political process. They are not equals.
Koch Brother vs. Soros political spending through 2010 (both spent a lot, Kochs spent more):
http://www.opensecrets.org/news/2010/09/opensecrets-battle-koch-brothers/
The Kochs are shady and secretive with their back room dealings, while Soros is more open about where his money is going:
http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/5113492
The first sentence on the Politifact home page: "PolitiFact is an independent fact-checking journalism website aimed at bringing you the truth in politics." And it goes on and proclaiming its objectivity and commitment to what it calls " the truth." The same Web site that cannot guide searchers to the so-called lying study. Besides, it is notable that none of the Politifact supporters hereabouts have been able to post link or even give the dates bracket for the supposedly definitive and authoritative sample that is repeatedly cited by talking points.Quote: rxwineYup, and who claims to be 100% objective and not make mistakes over thousands of entries. No one at politifact.
Quote: SanchoPanzaThe first sentence on the Politifact home page: "PolitiFact is an independent fact-checking journalism website aimed at bringing you the truth in politics." And it goes on and proclaiming its objectivity and commitment to what it calls " the truth." The same Web site that cannot guide searchers to the so-called lying study. Besides, it is notable that none of the Politifact supporters hereabouts have been able to post link or even give the dates bracket for the supposedly definitive and authoritative sample that is repeatedly cited by talking points.
Well where do they claim 100% objectivity mistake free. That's simply false.
Fox News aims to be fair and balance, although they just state "fair and balanced' like that's all that is possible. I don't expect that. It just makes them funny to claim it.
Sometimes it works, this trump stuff is gold for her as it is for anybody that makes their living making fun of the right.
Sometimes it does not work and really falls flat, real flat.
She has an hour to kill, their is only so much material.
Republicans picked Tampa for their last convention.
I watched her segment regarding this choice.
In order for her to do her shtick, she had to make fun of the decision on the right.
She brought up every possible negative about Tampa and why my city should not have been picked by the Republicans.
A stupid decision on the right, yes that is fodder for her to make fun of
Making fun of a city simply because the republicans chose it, that's pretty weak.
It fell flat, real flat. She has an hour to kill, sometimes she tries too hard to make fun of decisions on the right that are not decisions that deserve criticism, such as picking Tampa, my adopted home town, for their convention.
I never heard of him.
Quote: terapinedRachel Maddows's shtick is to make fun of the right.
Sometimes it works, this trump stuff is gold for her as it is for anybody that makes their living making fun of the right.
Sometimes it does not work and really falls flat, real flat.
She has an hour to kill, their is only so much material.
Republicans picked Tampa for their last convention.
I watched her segment regarding this choice.
In order for her to do her shtick, she had to make fun of the decision on the right.
She brought up every possible negative about Tampa and why my city should not have been picked by the Republicans.
A stupid decision on the right, yes that is fodder for her to make fun of
Making fun of a city simply because the republicans chose it, that's pretty weak.
It fell flat, real flat. She has an hour to kill, sometimes she tries too hard to make fun of decisions on the right that are not decisions that deserve criticism, such as picking Tampa, my adopted home town, for their convention.
Exactly--she has a shtick just like Limbaugh, Hannity, Savage, Lewis Black, etc. Hers just happens to be on the left side of things. If all she had to say was bad things about Tampa, it must have been awful television even for a liberal. I watch her every now and then; I have found that all of them get on my nerves before too long.
Quote: RonCI watch her every now and then; I have found that all of them get on my nerves before too long.
Well yeah that is to be expected. They don't share your views.
I am the same way with Fox News. I watched Fox for about 30 seconds today before I had to turn it off in disgust. They compared the Planned Parenthood non-scandal to the killing of Cecil the Lion during one of their straight "news coverage" programs. That made me switch it to CNN for some 24/7 missing plane coverage.
Most of the sentient world would regard the quest for truth as 100 percent as aspiring to factual objectivity. Maybe someone can show where Politifact posts corrections, but that would seem extraordinarily difficult for a self-proclaimed truth seeker than cannot even be linked from its talking points. As it stands, the situation continues that not even one of the points referred to in the criticism posted here is in dispute.Quote: rxwineWell where do they claim 100% objectivity mistake free. That's simply false.
Quote: ams288Well yeah that is to be expected. They don't share your views.
I am the same way with Fox News. I watched Fox for about 30 seconds today before I had to turn it off in disgust. They compared the Planned Parenthood non-scandal to the killing of Cecil the Lion during one of their straight "news coverage" programs. That made me switch it to CNN for some 24/7 missing plane coverage.
I said all of them, not just her.
Quote: SanchoPanzaMost of the sentient world would regard the quest for truth as 100 percent as aspiring to factual objectivity. Maybe someone can show where Politifact posts corrections, but that would seem extraordinarily difficult for a self-proclaimed truth seeker than cannot even be linked from its talking points. As it stands, the situation continues that not even one of the points referred to in the criticism posted here is in dispute.
If you have a better source that is beyond criticism of bias go ahead and post it. I'll wait as long as necessary. Otherwise you're like a guy complaining about how bad someone's house is, when you don't even have one.
Here's a start:
Quote: ams288Well yeah that is to be expected. They don't share your views.
I am the same way with Fox News. I watched Fox for about 30 seconds today before I had to turn it off in disgust. They compared the Planned Parenthood non-scandal to the killing of Cecil the Lion during one of their straight "news coverage" programs. That made me switch it to CNN for some 24/7 missing plane coverage.
Selling baby parts is a no-scandal?
I didn't even see it, but what has been compared is the reaction of the country in general and liberals in particular to both stories. A guy shoots a lion and everyone is concerned. An abortion mill sells baby parts and liberals say "meh." That is what the story is about; pro-abortion groups so in favor of their issue that the whole thing does not bother them.
Abortion is not a huge issue for me, except the the proper government funding for Planned Parenthood should be zero. What is an issue is that such a large part of society acts this way. A sign of societal decline.
Quote: AZDuffmanSelling baby parts is a no-scandal?
I didn't even see it, but what has been compared is the reaction of the country in general and liberals in particular to both stories. A guy shoots a lion and everyone is concerned. An abortion mill sells baby parts and liberals say "meh." That is what the story is about; pro-abortion groups so in favor of their issue that the whole thing does not bother them.
Abortion is not a huge issue for me, except the the proper government funding for Planned Parenthood should be zero. What is an issue is that such a large part of society acts this way. A sign of societal decline.
They're not "selling baby parts."
Anyone who claims that is just a liar.
http://www.factcheck.org/2015/07/unspinning-the-planned-parenthood-video/
Quote: ams288They're not "selling baby parts."
Anyone who claims that is just a liar.
http://www.factcheck.org/2015/07/unspinning-the-planned-parenthood-video/
Why is not the full unedited video released?
Because the people making the video have no interest in the truth, that's why its heavily edited.
Anything heavily edited is not news, unless you are foxnews.
Quote: terapined
Anything heavily edited is not news, unless you are foxnews.
I beg to differ on editing
Quote: ams288They're not "selling baby parts."
Anyone who claims that is just a liar.
http://www.factcheck.org/2015/07/unspinning-the-planned-parenthood-video/
Seems to me your link shows they are doing just that.
Quote: AZDuffmanSeems to me your link shows they are doing just that.
Seems to me you're dead wrong.
Quote: terapinedWhy is not the full unedited video released?
Because the people making the video have no interest in the truth, that's why its heavily edited.
Anything heavily edited is not news, unless you are foxnews.
*shrug*
The Right Wingers will always need something to get upset over and a boogeyman to target. Planned Parenthood fits the bill for them perfectly.
Their witch hunts are never based on fact. Usually it's a heavily edited video that shows them what they want to see, like in this case....
Quote: ams288Seems to me you're dead wrong.
Read what you posted. They just said it was not a huge profit center for them, but they do not deny selling.
Left wingnuts are upset it is in the news because they want to see Trump coverage wall to wall. They are afraid of him yet cannot look away!
Quote: terapinedWhy is not the full unedited video released?
This statement is untrue, using one of the sources provided by folks here are saying selling bodies of the unborn is just fine with them. Here is the link, provided in the quoted article, to the unedited video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4UjIM9B9KQ
The original link to the article did not work, so here is one that works now:
http://www.factcheck.org/2015/07/unspinning-the-planned-parenthood-video/
Quote: terapinedBecause the people making the video have no interest in the truth, that's why its heavily edited.
Why would they release the full version if they are scared of the truth?
Quote: terapinedAnything heavily edited is not news, unless you are foxnews.
That is just plain funny. Those sweet, innocent liberal news outlets have never edited a piece... C'mon. Ever single piece of news we get in a one or two minute sound byte (or less) and even in a longer format, like 60 Minutes, is edited to be the way the presenter wants it to be...to say it in the way they want it said.
I'm sorry, but do they inform those patients who are having babies aborted that they are going to sell the body parts? Do they tell congress that they do that when the ask for funding? Is Planned Parenthood an honest broker?
Quote: AZDuffmanSeems to me your link shows they are doing just that.
http://www.dailydot.com/politics/planned-parenthood-undercover-abortion-sting/
They are not selling body parts. They are donating body parts with the parents approval to research institutes and getting some money for the cost of storing and transporting those parts. They are no more paying for body parts then a hospital is when they pay a crew to airlift in a body part for transplant. That piece was a hit piece from a company that knowingly release a heavily edited video and lied about its purpose not just as part of the sting but to donors and to the IRS.
Actually quotes from the full 2.5 hour video which was edited down to like 10 minutes.
She further explains the purpose of the lawful cost-reimbursement: “We really just want that to be reasonable for the impact it has on the clinic. This is not something with any revenue stream that affiliates are looking at, this is a way to offer patients the services they want and do good for the medical community and still maintain access.”
“In health care, patients sometimes want to donate tissue to scientific research that can help lead to medical breakthroughs, such as treatments and cures for serious diseases,” Eric Ferrero, Planned Parenthood’s vice president of communications, said in a statement. “Women at Planned Parenthood who have abortions are no different. At several of our health centers, we help patients who want to donate tissue for scientific research, and we do this just like every other high-quality health care provider does—with full, appropriate consent from patients and under the highest ethical and legal standards.”
“There is no financial benefit for tissue donation for either the patient or for Planned Parenthood,” Ferrero added. “In some instances, actual costs, such as the cost to transport tissue to leading research centers, are reimbursed, which is standard across the medical field.”
All mention at most the clinic is seeking reimbursement for the cost of storing and transporting the fetal tissue so that it can be used in research endeavors. Does your side ever feel stupid when it is shown that nothing illegal or unethical transpired even though your right wing darlings released a heavily edited video showing something happening. You should have known this video was bullshit the second you found out James O'Keefe supported it. Can the right actually do any real investigative journalism or have any journalistic integrity or are we doomed to settle for this crap from now on.
Quote: Twirdmanhttp://www.dailydot.com/politics/planned-parenthood-undercover-abortion-sting/
They are not selling body parts. They are donating body parts with the parents approval to research institutes and getting some money for the cost of storing and transporting those parts.
That is what we would call selling in these parts. Getting money in exchange for something.
Quote: AZDuffmanThat is what we would call selling in these parts. Getting money in exchange for something.
So in your parts, organ donation is illegal.
According to you, paying transportation costs is selling organs?
Wow, in your parts i geuss those needing an organ donation simply are left to die?
Good thing Phil Lesh, bass guitar Grateful Dead, does not live in your parts.
He is alive due to a liver organ donation.
I'm sure he did not buy the liver but somebody paid the transportation, maybe his hospital.
Are you actually against organ donations due to transportation costs that you view as selling the organs?
Quote: terapinedSo in your parts, organ donation is illegal.
According to you, paying transportation costs is selling organs?
Wow, in your parts i geuss those needing an organ donation simply are left to die?
Good thing Phil Lesh, bass guitar Grateful Dead, does not live in your parts.
He is alive due to a liver organ donation.
I'm sure he did not buy the liver but somebody paid the transportation, maybe his hospital.
Are you actually against organ donations due to transportation costs that you view as selling the organs?
Nobody is intentionally killed to donate organs in my parts.
Quote: RonCWhy are different prices mentioned for different parts? If it is a donation, why would you not just say we'll dissect the baby's body and send you the parts, it will cost us $125 in labor and shipping costs to do so?
Storage, condition, and time would be critical in organ donation for a patient over tissue for a lab. Not that they wouldn't want to deliver everything in good condition but I don't want my new kidney shipped by FedEx the standard way.
But I don't know if that's the reason, I'm just guessing.
Quote: AZDuffmanNobody is intentionally killed to donate organs in my parts.
Organ donation saves lives.
This has nothing to do with abortion
I'm talking about adult to adult organ donation.
Can a patient that is dying and needs an organ transplant in your parts get an organ?
Somebody has to pay for transportation but you consider that as somebody buying the organ.
Transportation is largely a fixed cost. The costs associated with the tissue are stable, meaning that the haggling over price goes far beyond factors like transportation.Quote: terapinedSomebody has to pay for transportation but you consider that as somebody buying the organ.
Transportation is largely a fixed cost. The costs associated with the tissue are stable, meaning that the haggling over price goes far beyond factors like transportation.Quote: terapinedSomebody has to pay for transportation but you consider that as somebody buying the organ.
Quote: SanchoPanzaTransportation is largely a fixed cost. The costs associated with the tissue are stable, meaning that the haggling over price goes far beyond factors like transportation.
No, no, no...you don't get it. It is all a donation, there is nothing hidden from those who have abortions, and these parts are not "sold" at all...they just pay to cover the costs of recovering them from the dead babies and transporting them. They really aren't talking over various prices for various parts or anything of that sort.
Go back to sleep. Rest in comfort knowing the abortion folks are keeping an eye on things and they say everything is just fine. The tapes are all edited to make you think the wrong thing!!
Quote: RonCI'm sorry, but do they inform those patients who are having babies aborted that they are going to sell the body parts?
This gets the *facepalm* award of the day.
1.) They do not "sell" the body parts (well, according to AZDuffman they do, but everyone else who actually has knowledge of the facts disagrees).
2.) Planned Parenthood's statement from the Fact Check article I linked:
Quote:Planned Parenthood, July 14: At several of our health centers, we help patients who want to donate tissue for scientific research, and we do this just like every other high-quality health care provider does — with full, appropriate consent from patients and under the highest ethical and legal standards. There is no financial benefit for tissue donation for either the patient or for Planned Parenthood. In some instances, actual costs, such as the cost to transport tissue to leading research centers, are reimbursed, which is standard across the medical field.
I said it before and I'll say it again: this is a non-scandal. But it will live on on right wing media for a while. Because, when have legitimate facts ever gotten in the way of faux Republican outrage?
Quote: RonCNo, no, no...you don't get it. It is all a donation, there is nothing hidden from those who have abortions
LOL you really seem to be doubling down on the idea that the abortion patients aren't aware the fetal tissue* is being donated**.
Please do some research.
*not "baby parts"
**not "sold"
Quote: AZDuffmanSelling baby parts is a no-scandal?
I didn't even see it, but what has been compared is the reaction of the country in general and liberals in particular to both stories. A guy shoots a lion and everyone is concerned. An abortion mill sells baby parts and liberals say "meh." That is what the story is about; pro-abortion groups so in favor of their issue that the whole thing does not bother them.
Abortion is not a huge issue for me, except the the proper government funding for Planned Parenthood should be zero. What is an issue is that such a large part of society acts this way. A sign of societal decline.
They're not "selling" baby parts. They're providing fetal t-cells for exactly the cost of preserving them for study, to accredited research facilities. It's not a profit enterprise, it's an expense (as opposed to immediate biological waste disposal, the only other option) they can't otherwise sustain or justify.
Trust the right-wing to distort what tiny bit of good could conceivably come from an awful process, one that's showing promise in curing some cancer, spinal chord injuries, and Alzheimers, into screaming headlines of moral depravity that serve their agenda. It's actually a comfort to many families, much in the way of allowing organ harvesting of loved ones, to think there could be some greater good served in their loss.
These are parts of aborted babies...call them non-viable fetuses, if you wish, but they are life and they deserve to be treated AT LEAST with respect. What the tapes show, taken as edited or in full, is negotiations for, at best, the harvesting, preservation, and shipment of body parts from these aborted babies.
If this was all so on the up-and-up, why is it not simply part of the process negotiated by the Planned Parenthood bosses and distributed out to the locations as a directive on how to handle the aborted fetus,make the harvest, and ship the material? The purchaser tells PP what it wants, PP arranges for those who have abortions to donate, and it is all a clean process.
You can jump up and down, scream and shout, advocate the right to choose fetus death, or whatever...but there is something smelly here and the one thing it isn't is someone trying to show what is going on...
"These brokers sell the product at a huge profit margin, well beyond the cost needed to cover fees to purify, process and store the tissue. "
http://www.newsweek.com/fetal-tissue-essential-science-357264
This just isn't a "clean" process...people are making huge profits off a aborted babies; it stands to reason that PP folks know that and try to get a share.
Of course, they could all be completely innocent...
Republicans and Conservatives have done some things wrong, not every candidate is a great one, and the side I support is not perfect. Sometimes, it is so imperfect that I end supporting a position of the other side.
I'd submit that if you've never came across a position on your side that you can't support, then there is no sense having a conversation with you.
Democrats and Liberals have done some things wrong, their candidates are flawed, and their side is not perfect.
Unlike some here, I am listening to both sides. For example, I am reading a book by Robert Gates on his service as SecDef under both Bush and Obama. Clearly, he had issues with how both of them did things and he supported things that both of them did. I don't jump and down and swear it ain't so when he explains something that he felt Obama did well; I listen to what he is saying and agree with him more than I disagree. Clearly, it is a lot harder to be President than it is to sit in an easy chair and criticize the President. Of course, everyone who runs for President should expect that degree of criticism...
Quote: RonC...but there is something smelly here and the one thing it isn't is someone trying to show what is going on.
Yup.
Quote: terapined
Somebody has to pay for transportation but you consider that as somebody buying the organ.
Transport is paid by whoever is getting the product, I've been on a flight with my brother to bring some back. He has done others. They used to use the call "Lifeguard" which moved everything other than AF1 out of your way. They have change the call sign IIRC to what I do not recall.
No, it is not about abortion per se. It is about what a brutal business Planned Parenthood is running. They act it up great since their copywriter came up with the "Women's Health" thing. Reality is when Mr and Mrs America see what the place is really about their standing falls. The pro-abortion groups cannot have that.
Quote: RonCI guess the responses from Liberals on this whole PP issue is just what one expects from people who are totally willing to say everything one side does is wrong and everything their side does is right. I say that time and time again--that both sides have a whole lot of crappy people in them and need to be cleaned up--but I don't hear much from anyone willing to even consider that some things their side does is dirty....
Conspiracy theories from the rightwing are a dime a dozen. There will likely be another one in month or two, if not next week.
Quote: rxwineConspiracy theories from the rightwing are a dime a dozen. There will likely be another one in month or two, if not next week.
Yep. Everyone of these videos has fallen apart upon closer examination. James O' Keefes videos were all shown to be heavily edited or outright fabrications.
The left does do something incredibly unethical it does happen, but when you start getting lies like the Planned Parenthood videos or the James O' Keefe videos or total non controversies like Benghazi or the IRS investigation or even worse fake fox scandals like Dijon mustard. This kind of shit makes it impossible to take seriously if any real scandals do appear. The GOP has become the boy who cried wolf.
Quote: RonCI hear all of the Liberal abortion supporters here giving their version of the story; I also hear the opponent's version of the study.
These are parts of aborted babies...call them non-viable fetuses, if you wish, but they are life and they deserve to be treated AT LEAST with respect. What the tapes show, taken as edited or in full, is negotiations for, at best, the harvesting, preservation, and shipment of body parts from these aborted babies.
What has been made available were heavily edited tapes with fake negotiators trying to trap PP doctors into statements that could be presented to indict them, as was done.
Quote: RonCIf this was all so on the up-and-up, why is it not simply part of the process negotiated by the Planned Parenthood bosses and distributed out to the locations as a directive on how to handle the aborted fetus,make the harvest, and ship the material? The purchaser tells PP what it wants, PP arranges for those who have abortions to donate, and it is all a clean process.
Nothing about abortion services can be straightforward for decades now; you have a conveniently short memory span IF you don't remember all the dead doctors, clinicians, and bombed clinics, let alone the demonstrations, rock-throwing, blood-throwing, and death threats of the last 40 years.
I don't think there are any two abortion clinics in the country that operate under exactly the same laws, as they are all subject to state regulation, and there are few if any per state. So I don't think there can be a single directive that will govern these transactions correctly; I think I heard it's only happening in 4 states as it is, because of those laws. I could be wrong about the number of states.
Quote: RonCYou can jump up and down, scream and shout, advocate the right to choose fetus death, or whatever...but there is something smelly here and the one thing it isn't is someone trying to show what is going on...
"These brokers sell the product at a huge profit margin, well beyond the cost needed to cover fees to purify, process and store the tissue. "
http://www.newsweek.com/fetal-tissue-essential-science-357264
This just isn't a "clean" process...people are making huge profits off a aborted babies; it stands to reason that PP folks know that and try to get a share.
Of course, they could all be completely innocent...
The third-party brokers may well be making a profit; PP is by definition a non-profit organization, heavily overseen, and has no latitude to be running some kind of tissue-profit sideline. They are simply not doing this, and you saying "it stands to reason" is not correct, and in fact a libel of their operation, as it would be illegal for them to profit from it, and cause them to lose their non-profit status. It does NOT follow.
Clearly state laws and their enforcement don't come close to the laws of basic humanity and morality, as Pennsylvania demonstrated so horrifically with Kermit Gosnell.Quote: beachbumbabsI don't think there are any two abortion clinics in the country that operate under exactly the same laws, as they are all subject to state regulation, and there are few if any per state. So I don't think there can be a single directive that will govern these transactions correctly.
Obviously that is not occurring. First, the sale of human tissue for profit is a federal crime. Second, PP has clearly not been supervised, if all the authorities are so surprised by the uproar over the videos and the sales. Third, the broker in the videos has extremely close ties to PP, whose executives earn quite nice stipends.Quote: beachbumbabsThe third-party brokers may well be making a profit; PP is by definition a non-profit organization, heavily overseen, and has no latitude to be running some kind of tissue-profit sideline.
Somebody is sure making money from the harvesting. Here is one small price list from the Stem Cell Web site.Quote: beachbumbabsThey're not "selling" baby parts. They're providing fetal t-cells for exactly the cost of preserving them for study, to accredited research facilities.
"Fetal Liver
Showing all 5 results
fetalLiver_cell
Fetal Liver – CD34+ Stem/Progenitor Cells
$488–$2,240 Select options
fetalLiver_cell
Fetal Liver – CD36+ Erythroid Progenitor Cells
$546–$1,456 Select options
fetalLiver_cell
Fetal Liver – CD133+ Stem/Progenitor Cells
$2,425–$24,250 Select options
fetalLiver_cell
Fetal Liver – Mononuclear Cells
$986–$1,035 Select options
fetalLiver_cell
Fetal Liver – Stromal Cells
$920–$1,932 Select options."
Quote: SanchoPanzaClearly state laws and their enforcement don't come close to the laws of basic humanity and morality, as Pennsylvania demonstrated so horrifically with Kermit Gosnell.
If criminal malpractice is your standard, better consider it has happened in all medical fields. In other words, your argument is pointless as an example of anything useful to note.
Quote: beachbumbabsWhat has been made available were heavily edited tapes with fake negotiators trying to trap PP doctors into statements that could be presented to indict them, as was done.
I gave a link that presented the full tape of one of the encounters. Of course what was presented on TV was edited--juts like every other TV news story. It also had a point of view, as do many news stories that are presented on the various networks.
The PP doctors didn't have to negotiate, but they did.
I'm sorry, but it seems like it is pretty easy to figure out how much it costs to do something and then simply say it costs us $200 to preserve and ship this to you, so that is the amount we need reimbursed for our expenses. It isn't a matter of the process being simple, but prices can be put on the process no matter how hard it is.
Quote: beachbumbabsNothing about abortion services can be straightforward for decades now; you have a conveniently short memory span IF you don't remember all the dead doctors, clinicians, and bombed clinics, let alone the demonstrations, rock-throwing, blood-throwing, and death threats of the last 40 years.
A lot of things have happened over the past 40 years, but this isn't the past 40 years. It is now. If this is all for research and is such a "clean" business (as far as the harvesting of tissue, and recouping costs of doing so), the process should be fairly straight forward and open to being checked since there are laws governing the process.
Quote: beachbumbabsI don't think there are any two abortion clinics in the country that operate under exactly the same laws, as they are all subject to state regulation, and there are few if any per state. So I don't think there can be a single directive that will govern these transactions correctly; I think I heard it's only happening in 4 states as it is, because of those laws. I could be wrong about the number of states.
It still could be directed by the state administrations of the organizations. This is how much it costs, this is how much we need to continue to supply the tissue. No need for negotiations at all--pay or don't pay; we have to recover our costs. We can't make a profit on it. It doesn't get much more basic than that.
Quote: beachbumbabsThe third-party brokers may well be making a profit; PP is by definition a non-profit organization, heavily overseen, and has no latitude to be running some kind of tissue-profit sideline. They are simply not doing this, and you saying "it stands to reason" is not correct, and in fact a libel of their operation, as it would be illegal for them to profit from it, and cause them to lose their non-profit status. It does NOT follow.
Again, finding the actual cost is a simple process; from there, you don't negotiate at all...you tell the recipient that this is how much it costs us to do this and that is what you have to pay.
Non-profits are rarely as clean as we would like them to be.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/07/31/candidates-jockey-for-position-in-final-debate-dash/
I am looking forward to seeing the candidates; I will probably watch both sessions.
I hope the Republicans don't get lured into the traps of abortion or gay marriage in the process. I'm not saying that they shouldn't have a position on those items, but they are not the issues we need a President to lead us through at this point. Speak your position if you want, but don't let people trap you into to talking about only those issues as if they are the most important things out there.
Quote: RonCLess than one week until the Fox debates.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/07/31/candidates-jockey-for-position-in-final-debate-dash/
I am looking forward to seeing the candidates; I will probably watch both sessions.
I hope the Republicans don't get lured into the traps of abortion or gay marriage in the process. I'm not saying that they shouldn't have a position on those items, but they are not the issues we need a President to lead us through at this point. Speak your position if you want, but don't let people trap you into to talking about only those issues as if they are the most important things out there.
Finally, back on topic. All that planned parenthood stuff should have been spun off into another thread.
I too am really looking forward to the debate. Looks like Rick Perry may be the so called first man out, which is a shame as he is always good for entertainment value, plus, being he was one of the first to stand up and criticize Trump, they may have had some back and forth. At least as much as a 10 person debate would allow for.
I am also finding John Kasich's rise in the polls very interesting. There was a republican strategist, who I don't remember his name, who, a couple months ago, said Kasich was the backup establishment candidate. If he entered the race it would be because the establishment was beginning to have doubts about Bush's ability to win the nomination.
So Kasich is in the race, raising money quickly, 11 million in 7 days and moving up in the polls. Bush isn't going anywhere with his buckets of campaign money, but so far he doesn't seem to be able to turn that into support from voters (at least in the polls).
With a number of candidates, looking like they will have the money to stay around for a while, longer than usual, this really looks like it could be a case where a number of candidates divide up the vote further into the primary season next year than normal and no one emerges with enough support to win the nomination. THAT and the deal making that would go with it, would be most entertaining.
Quote: RonCI hope the Republicans don't get lured into the traps of abortion or gay marriage in the process.
If they are presidential material it shouldn't matter. They either handle it in some passable manner or fail.
Quote: RonCLess than one week until the Fox debates.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/07/31/candidates-jockey-for-position-in-final-debate-dash/
I am looking forward to seeing the candidates; I will probably watch both sessions.
I hope the Republicans don't get lured into the traps of abortion or gay marriage in the process. I'm not saying that they shouldn't have a position on those items, but they are not the issues we need a President to lead us through at this point. Speak your position if you want, but don't let people trap you into to talking about only those issues as if they are the most important things out there.
How is abortion or gay marriage a trap?
They are important issues too me, they involve freedom and separation of religion and state.
I will be watching and want to hear the candidates positions on these issues.
Huck needs to be heard by the American women voters, he wants to use federal troops to stop abortions.
This would be a great topic to discuss among all of them.
Think about that, federal troops, not the police, not the FBI.
Huck is so out of it, he wants to go to war against women with federal troops.
North Korea and Iran are problems. That's why we have federal troops.
But if ol Huck gets elected, he wants to use federal troops against Americans.
Is this guy insane or what?
http://www.arktimes.com/ArkansasBlog/archives/2015/07/31/huckabee-wouldnt-rule-out-use-of-troops-to-stop-abortion
Look at all the topics we discuss here in this thread.
We are a microcosm of the American people here in this thread.
What we discuss here is what the American people talk about when discussing politics.
These are people that want to be President, lets here their views on controversial issues discussed here.
