CasinoKat from NanoTech
Quote: Zcore13There was very little interest in Nanotech's product compared to the other I mentioned. As I said, they may eventually find something that works.
I actually watched Ahigh playing the kat
game a couple times. It reminds me of
the PacMan game I had in the bar in
the late 70's. Very simple concept, a
cursor in a maze. It was revolutionary
at the time, but when we got Asteroids,
PacMan was soon on the junk pile.
I frankly don't see why people raised on
sophisticated computer games would
want to go back to the stone age of
arcade. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe they
love it and Ahigh got 40 installs like
some of the other skill games did.
You have no idea how exciting this
game was in 1979. You could shoot
and blow things up. They would play
this thing for hours, the bar made a
small fortune.
*added later. It almost gave me wood
watching this. I heard these sounds for
a couple years, for hours a day. It was
the sound of making money. Guys
would buy rolls of quarters from me,
and sit there for 3 hours, swilling beers
and dumping quarters into this game.
A quarter in 1980 is about $1.25 in
todays money, and it adds up quick
when one quarter is being deposited every
2 min.
Quote: EvenBobSigh. A very small % of EVERY younger generation
has money, so what...This week I've scouting my locals for kids and
I've found NONE. Not a single one.
What planet do you live on?
Certain casinos in Las Vegas are filled with kids on Friday and Saturday night: PH, CR, NYNY: the ones that seek their business.
They gamble there: I see it ever time I come to Las Vegas.
No, they don't have much of a footprint in the plusher joints, but hey, Wynn and Bellagio don't want them.
The local Indian casinos I play at in Oregon on weekends have a large population of youngsters: many are college students and recent grads from nearby college towns, and others come to party in the clubs and seem to migrate down to the casino floor as well.
The sky is not falling, at least not in my experience, not in the casino world I dwell in.
Then again, I don't gamble in the rust belt so things could look different in "your world."
Quote: MrV
The local Indian casinos I play at in Oregon on weekends have a large population of youngsters: many are college students and recent grads from nearby college towns, and others come to party in the clubs and seem to migrate down to the casino floor as well.
I see them in the college town of Mt Pleasant,
where the gambling age is 18. They come in with
their $25 allowance for the week and spread it
around. I'm sure where you live it's $40 or $50.
Pinch me, the high rollers have arrived. lol
Quote: EvenBobI see them in the college town of Mt Pleasant,
where the gambling age is 18. They come in with
their $25 allowance for the week and spread it
around. I'm sure where you live it's $40 or $50.
Pinch me, the high rollers have arrived. lol
On weekends here in Niagara Falls, the casinos were full of young folks; kids coming over from the states to drink (19 here); college students etc, and the draw is not the nightclubs attached to the casinos -- they suck, and they serve last call (like everywhere else) at 1:30am. They have money and they are gambling. They are not whales mind you but they are playing entertainment slot games (the women) while the men are generally playing table games, often pooling their money to play at the increased table limit games.
The same is true on Vegas when I've been there. The casinos with "happening" night clubs have a lot of youngsters who visit (more than 50% from LA mind you). They are staying in hotels, spending $$$ at the nightclubs, and the casinos of course want to take more of their money away by offering games that are appealing to them.
But casino management also recognize that these games are not their bread and butter. The addict still provides the bulk of revenue, the whales that are flown in from overseas provide huge boosts. The rest come from the din of the slot machines taking 5-15% of your money every pull.
Quote: superrickI can't understand, why someone that works in a small casino, hate Ahigh so much. Is it that he is living the dream and has the talent to be ahead of everybody in the way that he thinks?
I was at the show, and from what I saw there was a lot of interest in his products. The young people loved them and if the casinos are going to survive that is the market they need to go after. All I see now from them now is they're walking through the casinos going to the clubs and pools.
I think it's fantastic that he's living the dream and is ahead of people in the way he thinks. He's probably brilliant. My criticism is attempting to be constructive. We don't sit here and say "go Martingale!!!" and support gamblers with system that clearly defy math. My thoughts were my attempt to be helpful.
In the end, Aaron knows his reality better than we do. His goal is to monetize his brilliance: the challenge is making a game that the casinos will love and buy, or for another company to buy him and his ideas out so he can move on to his next challenge.
And yeah, I got a bit combative when he puts up (as a retort) video and comments that his sky is blue. In the end, this thread was supposed to be about his particular game, how great it was with the hope that it would receive a ton of positive comments with investors and support. Now imagine if every single company at G2E decided to use this forum to do the same thing. These threads would be pushed to the advertising section of this website and perhaps Zuga and the gang could make some money closing off the threads and letting only select people (its sponsors) post in them. So for me, I called bull.
I've given him some ideas to help him. Publishing company financial statements that are audited and make sense is one as it gives investors confidence. Making the game's end play (changing the spinning wheel to something else) better is another. Taking the word "advantage" and replacing it with "better" or "improved" would impress casinos more. However, he has gaming experts around him that I hope he listens to who will provide him with far better advice (if he chooses to listen) then I ever would.
In the end, the final idea I've given him is to ignore me (and other dissenters) completely.
Quote: EvenBobSigh. A very small % of EVERY younger generation
has money, so what. The REST of them, the majority
of them are college grads living in their old bedroom
at home. 50% of them now. Or working a job four pay
grades below what they were trained for. Saying
kids 21-29 are just flush with cash and no place
in the casino to spend it is ludicrous. You see a
few rich kids and assume they're all that way?
Look around at the real world sometime.
This week I've scouting my locals for kids and
I've found NONE. Not a single one. Don't give
me the crap about how great is in SoCal. I
posted the stats that 21-29 years olds here
make the same amount and have $11,000
more a year besides, because of the cost of
living. So they are far better off than SoCal
kids and they still don't go to casinos here.
I noticed this back in the 70's when I was
a kid and had no money. Some things never
change.
Well, I guess they are all the kids that don't live where you do that I see coming out of the clubs every morning when I'm playing craps down on the strip. They're the ones throwing money around like it's nothing. I've seen the same thing for years now, when I was working on the strip in some of the casinos, they would be coming out of the clubs and never stop to play anything. Unless they were trying to impress one of the young ladies they had on their arm. Hit one of the major casinos on the weekend at 4 am and see what is walking around in them. Then hit one of the pools and get a few drinks and rent a cabana and see what they are spending.
These casinos are not spending millions of dollars building clubs then spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on DJ's if their not making money off the younger generation.
Yes I believe you though about it. If it was something you thought about then obviously it was a valid concern.Quote: AhighJust yes or no, do you think I didn't already think of this?
Just wondering.
We have had the discussion no fewer than 50 times over the last year to at least 50 different individuals or groups listening about how our math model works.
If you can understand the math model from what's being shown here, and you didn't understand it before, that's the goal.
The goal is not to shove this in front of each person who plays the game no matter what.
I can guarantee you that at least one person who didn't understand how our model works will understand it once they play the game and can look at how this graph changes over time.
It's not a goal to confuse dumb people who want to play slot machines. And even if it were, complicating the understanding (for example by adding a hundred lines and making the whole thing super complicated) wouldn't be any departure from a slot machine anyway.
If anything, on the confusion level, you're dead wrong! Slot players apparent *DO* want to be confused so that they feel better about the fact that they have no idea what the hell is going on.
But seriously, it sounds like you're giving me a lecture on how to make good video games, Axel. That'd be like me giving you a lecture on how you need to take advantage of casino offers.
You said, "I'm dead wrong" and people want to be confused. Yet I never used the word confused. I said COMPLICATED. If something seems somewhat confusing, that's one thing. If it seems to complicated that's entirely different. I don't think most people want their slots to be complicated. That's why they play the slots over pai gow tiles or Video Poker.
I wasn't thinking of this like a traditional slot game. It's a slot/ video game? The rules and target audience are different. We have no clue what a successful formula is yet.
Let's pretend I said confused.
Does the average person want to be "confused" if they believe the confusion and skill is going to greatly affect their chances to win money? With a normal slot game people know they just have to insert money, hit the spin button and they will win or lose whatever it's supposed to be, confused or not. There's a big difference in adding a hundred lines and someone not knowing what pays what VS not understanding other things that will affect your payback percentage.
would the average person who would play a pac man type game want it to be confusing or complicated?
I'm absolutely certain there's people who if they believed they had little or no chance to win mainly because it was to complicated or confusing they would move on.
No I absolutely wasn't giving you a lecture on how to make good video games. I'm not sure how you arrived at that conclusion. We are talking about gambling. I was trying to help. I believe it's better if you can design a casino game that appeals to everyone.
Quote: EvenBobI see them in the college town of Mt Pleasant,
where the gambling age is 18. They come in with
their $25 allowance for the week and spread it
around. I'm sure where you live it's $40 or $50.
Pinch me, the high rollers have arrived. lol
Same as it ever was: it's been that way since Bugsy came to town.
The casinos were not built for kids, they were built for, and cater to, their parents and grand parents.
Of course most twenty-somethings don't have the disposable income of their parents, but a lot more do have money than you want to let on or even understand, and it is this group that fuels the clubbing scene: there is A LOT of money floating around and being spent there.
Your continuing rant that kids today have no money is gainsaid by the very existence of Ibiza-like mega-clubs in Las Vegas.
Ignore reality if it gives you comfort and ratifies your world-view, but don't expect many passengers to climb aboard the train with you.
Quote: MrVSame as it ever was: it's been that way since Bugsy came to town.
The casinos were not built for kids, they were built for, and cater to, their parents and grand parents.
Of course most twenty-somethings don't have the disposable income of their parents, but a lot more do have money than you want to let on or even understand, and it is this group that fuels the clubbing scene: there is A LOT of money floating around and being spent there.
Your continuing rant that kids today have no money is gainsaid by the very existence of Ibiza-like mega-clubs in Las Vegas.
Ignore reality if it gives you comfort and ratifies your world-view, but don't expect many passengers to climb aboard the train with you.
Well said, these kids have money and they are not spending it the casinos, they spend it it the clubs!
Now that I know what the hell is going on, I would play it in a casino. What worries me though, how many people would be able to figure it out with out a demo.
Quote: GWAEI got to meet ahigh. It was just a quick hi though because they were busy with people both times I walked by. I completely understand the pin ball game now that I saw a demo. I do like the idea and the game. Th one thing that do not like about it is that it is an older style pinball game. Like something from the 70s. I would like to have a version that was more like Adams family or star trek but not sure if that is possible.
Now that I know what the hell is going on, I would play it in a casino. What worries me though, how many people would be able to figure it out with out a demo.
Thanks.
Quote: superrickWell said, these kids have money and they are not spending it the casinos, they spend it it the clubs!
They don't have 'real' money, they have some
money. There's a big difference. A couple hundred
is not real money, it's 20 min at a slot. But it can
go a long way at a pool, and that's where they
spend it.
Quote: AhighThanks.
Well, where is the list of installs? You say
your booth was packed every day and
everybody loved loved loved your
products, where can we go play them?
So let me give you a quote from GAMBLINGINSIDER.
Quote:PAGE 88 Sep-Oct 2015
Today's prime, high margin real estate is not Las Vegas Strip land or on the casino floor. The most profitable space is in the nightclubs, and the brand equity they bring is a further additional revenue driver that nobody foresaw
So I think I know what I'm writing about when I say if the casinos want to draw in the younger generation they need skill base games like Ahighs company is now making!
Some people can't see pass their nose, they are blinded by what they think. There is no changing their outlook on the things that are happening around them. I've seen these kids that you say don't have any money throwing it away in the clubs and in the pools around Vegas every weekend!
The casinos didn't think about what would happen to the younger generation when it came their time to start gambling. They want no part of sitting at a slot machine a pushing one button. You have to give credit were credit is due. Ahigh had to foresight to see the need for skill base games to bring in the younger generation.
While most on this board and others were trying to make fun of him he didn't waiver in his overall plan to bring these type of games to the casinos!
Quote: superrick
While most on this board and others were trying to make fun of him he didn't waiver in his overall plan to bring these type of games to the casinos!
Cool! When will we see the list of installs so
all these rich kids with no jobs and living with
their parents can start playing them?
Beat the pavement to take orders first. Rush to fill them second. Talk about it when retired.Quote: EvenBobCool! When will we see the list of installs so
all these rich kids with no jobs and living with
their parents can start playing them?
Will anyone care about another dead end thread in a year? Live and don't learn.
Quote: superrickSome people can't see pass their nose, they are blinded by what they think. There is no changing their outlook on the things that are happening around them.
Yeah, it reminds me of why they say not to wrestle with a pig: you'll just get dirty, and the pig loves it.
Quote: EvenBobCool! When will we see the list of installs so
all these rich kids with no jobs and living with
their parents can start playing them?
As soon as you get out of your own little world!
Quote: superrickAs soon as you get out of your own little world!
This makes no sense, you know that, right?
Bob please quit going back to that. It's not a legitimate argument concerning who has money or if this concept is valid or not. Again I don't think Ahigh's company is fully licensed for gaming in NV . The senate Bill 9 was only passed just this year.Quote: EvenBobCool! When will we see the list of installs so
all these rich kids with no jobs and living with
their parents can start playing them?
Quote: EvenBobQuote: superrickWell said, these kids have money and they are not spending it the casinos, they spend it it the clubs!
They don't have 'real' money, they have some
money. There's a big difference. A couple hundred
is not real money, it's 20 min at a slot. But it can
go a long way at a pool, and that's where they
spend it.
Lol I guess you don't know how much $20 is worth at a strip pool. That's 2 beers after tip. At the hotter clubs, probably one beer, and not enough for cover.
Not sure where those kids get all the money to spend in the club, but I sure am envious.
Quote: AxelWolfAgain I don't think Ahigh's company is fully licensed for gaming in NV .
But other skill games at the show were
getting dozens of installs. Why be at a
show where you aren't licensed.
Quote: tringlomane
Lol I guess you don't know how much $20 is worth at a strip pool. That's 2 beers after tip. .
You can make $200 last all weekend with
a lot of slow sipping. Weren't you
ever 23 and low on party funds? You
improvise..
$20+ for a Grey Goose based mixed drink.
Many folks opt for hideously expensive VIP tables and bottle service.
Throw in the expense of non-comped accomodations for the weekend plus meals out, and before you know it you're talking some pretty serious money for a weekend of fun and frivolity.
Thousands of folks do it.
Ka-ching!
Quote: EvenBobBut other skill games at the show were
getting dozens of installs. Why be at a
show where you aren't licensed.
Which ones? The guitar hero clone one which your skill only determined when when are making a bet, but had nothing to do with the outcome. That company had a few games just like that. Or the one that was a player banked poker game where you need to be fast/have quick reflexes.
If anyone has any questions or comments about CasinoKat and how to improve our chances of success with it, please post them below!
Keep the discussion going! Purrrrrr!
They absolutely were not. The games haven't even been approved yet; the ink is barely dry on the regulations. I was in the room when they were approved *two weeks ago* and to my knowledge, the GCB hasn't even acted on any submissions yet. Regulatory approvals take more than two weeks.Quote: EvenBobBut other skill games at the show were
getting dozens of installs. Why be at a
show where you aren't licensed.
Point is, nobody is "licensed" for this yet. The NGCB is now accepting applications under the new regs, that's all.
And as to your persistent misunderstanding that nobody under 35 in Las Vegas has any money to gamble with, you are simply wrong. The market for the millennial generation may not be robust in your local/regional location, but that's not the target geo for this new technology right now anyway. Something as next-gen as "betting on video games" instead of non-interactive slot games is clearly not going to launch in a retiree-centric locale. Your local casino will likely continue to offer slots for players of your demographic until you all stop coming to the casinos. Meanwhile, Las Vegas will reinvent itself by turning part of the gaming floor into the equivalent of Dave and Busters for money. Caesars is already working on this, with adjustable space design no less:
http://www.cnbc.com/2015/09/30/the-associated-press-caesars-new-ceo-shocked-with-lack-of-casino-innovation.html
Quote: MathExtremistThe market for the millennial generation may not be robust in your local/regional location,
Really? Seriously? I've explained this already,
about 5 times, with stats and everything,
I'm not going to explain it again. Does
anybody read threads or do they just pop
in and release their opinion and pop out
again.
Quote: MathExtremistThey absolutely were not. The games haven't even been approved yet; the ink is barely dry on the regulations. I was in the room when they were approved *two weeks ago* and to my knowledge, the GCB hasn't even acted on any submissions yet. Regulatory approvals take more than two weeks.
Point is, nobody is "licensed" for this yet. The NGCB is now accepting applications under the new regs, that's all.
When I left NEXT GAMING's booth around 2pm or so, they had 30 commitments for installs. Their games were very modern and what I believe what the next generation will want to play.
I'm sure the big boys got plenty of commitments as well with stuff like the Space Invaders skill bonus game and others.
Commitments are not installs, but they are definately a sign of interest.
ZCore13
Your explanations are about as accurate as the 60-day weather forecast. It might sound good to you to suggest that the entirety of the 21-39 demographic is uniformly broke but it's just wrong. You wrote:Quote: EvenBobReally? Seriously? I've explained this already,
about 5 times, with stats and everything,
I'm not going to explain it again. Does
anybody read threads or do they just pop
in and release their opinion and pop out
again.
Quote: EvenBobI see them in the college town of Mt Pleasant,
where the gambling age is 18. They come in with
their $25 allowance for the week and spread it
around. I'm sure where you live it's $40 or $50.
Pinch me, the high rollers have arrived. lol
That's your viewpoint. I get it, but it's wrong.
Quote: Zcore13When I left NEXT GAMING's booth around 2pm or so, they had 30 commitments for installs. Their games were very modern and what I believe what the next generation will want to play.
I'm sure the big boys got plenty of commitments as well with stuff like the Space Invaders skill bonus game and others.
Commitments are not installs, but they are definately a sign of interest.
Absolutely, and there's other press on other companies that are also making meaningful investments in this space:
http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/gameco-inc-to-bring-worlds-first-skill-based-video-game-gambling-machines-to-casino-floors-300148227.html
I personally don't think G2 has exactly the right approach but it's definitely headed in the right direction. (Point of clarification: G2 was the content, Next was the hardware build.)
And I thought the Bally Space Invaders game was okay but I didn't like the UI and the lag was too noticeable. Plus, the only aliens who were shooting were the ones directly above you. If they tighten up the implementation, it will work better. Traditional slot game studios do not necessarily have experience designing lag-free, interactive UIs in the same way a AAA game studio does. It's a totally different discipline. That's one of the key competitive advantages that Aaron and his team have.
Quote: Zcore13When I left NEXT GAMING's booth around 2pm or so, they had 30 commitments for installs...
Commitments are not installs, but they are definately a sign of interest.
ZCore13
So haw many commitments did NanoTech Gaming get?
Quote: MathExtremistAbsolutely, and there's other press on other companies that are also making meaningful investments in this space:
http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/gameco-inc-to-bring-worlds-first-skill-based-video-game-gambling-machines-to-casino-floors-300148227.html
I personally don't think G2 has exactly the right approach but it's definitely headed in the right direction. (Point of clarification: G2 was the content, Next was the hardware build.)
And I thought the Bally Space Invaders game was okay but I didn't like the UI and the lag was too noticeable. Plus, the only aliens who were shooting were the ones directly above you. If they tighten up the implementation, it will work better. Traditional slot game studios do not necessarily have experience designing lag-free, interactive UIs in the same way a AAA game studio does. It's a totally different discipline. That's one of the key competitive advantages that Aaron and his team have.
I agree but none of the stuff that's going to be put on floors now will be there in 6 months. These are entry level games with eye candy getting the attention. The whole space will look different at next year's G2E.
My opinion is that these other companies maybe not space invaders) are showing current visuals and concepts. NanoTech is showing 1980's concepts. If the masses wanted to play those games they would be everywhere still.
ZCore13
to why millennials don't gamble.
"The simple fact is that people in general are gambling less, while the economics of gambling have worsened considerably over the past two decades. In one very important respect, there has never been a worse time to be a casual (non-advantage) gambler in the history of legalized gambling in the United States."
They say the casinos are giving less and less
value, not more value. If skill based games
are to be successful, they will have to give
more value to the player than the present
machines do, and will casinos be willing to
give more value (and take less for themselves)
in order to hopefully get more younger players.
In my experience, casinos are so ruthless and
greedy, I would say absolutely not, because
of their current mind set. That might change
eventually, but not in the the next five years.
http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2015/09/19/the-millennial-problem-why-we-dont-gamble.aspx
Quote: stv2049Hey folks, let's stop the back-and-forth debate over which age groups have money and how much. Let's just wait and see, OK?
If anyone has any questions or comments about CasinoKat and how to improve our chances of success with it, please post them below!
Keep the discussion going! Purrrrrr!
What about the issue you had with the game. Is this a design flaw or just bad luck. Hopefully you got it back up and running before the end of the show.
Quote: stv2049If anyone has any questions or comments about CasinoKat and how to improve our chances of success with it, please post them below!
Why? So you can just tell them they don't understand your math model?
Quote: stv2049Hey folks, let's stop the back-and-forth debate over which age groups have money and how much. Let's just wait and see, OK?
If anyone has any questions or comments about CasinoKat and how to improve our chances of success with it, please post them below!
Keep the discussion going! Purrrrrr!
You don't have to name names, but how many commitments did you get for installs of you two games?
ZCore13
The problem we had was the game overheated, exacerbated by the Sands turning off the AC overnight. Our prototype machines are just for show and definitely need redesign before being ready to operate in casinos.
I will attempt to answer any questions anyone has about the NanoTech Advantage math model. Whether you understand it or not is out of my control. MEOW!
Talking about commitments or installs is like kissing and telling. When we are ready to make an announcement of a partnership we will do so through a press release, not on the WoV forum, silly!
Saying that another game had "dozens of commitments" without "naming names" is the same thing I could do after rolling around in the catnip. Which I personally avoid! :D
We at NanoTech Gaming really do appreciate all your support and criticisms of CasinoKat. It all makes out game and our vision stronger!
STV
Quote: stv2049Now that's more like it!
The problem we had was the game overheated.. Our prototype machines are just for show and definitely need redesign before being ready to operate in casinos...Talking about commitments or installs is like kissing and telling.
Sounds like you guys are at least a year
from having products ready for full
time use 24/7 in a casino. Oh well, there
is always the show next year. Or 2017.
What's the rush.
Quote: EvenBobYou can make $200 last all weekend with
a lot of slow sipping. Weren't you
ever 23 and low on party funds? You
improvise..
I might be somewhat uncouth, but I'm not going to travel to Vegas to drink MD 20/20. That's what I did when I was...well, younger than that, I guess...and low on party funds.
Now you've moved up to Black Velvet...Quote: Mission146I might be somewhat uncouth, but I'm not going to travel to Vegas to drink MD 20/20. That's what I did when I was...well, younger than that, I guess...and low on party funds.
Quote: teddysNow you've moved up to Black Velvet...
Man I can't even drink any more I'm such a wuss. What was that stuff you were drinking when I was getting those ROCKSTARs yesterday?
Quote: AhighMan I can't even drink any more I'm such a wuss. What was that stuff you were drinking when I was getting those ROCKSTARs yesterday?
Quote: stv2049When we are ready to make an announcement of a partnership we will do so through a press release, not on the WoV forum, silly!
STV
I was surprised you didn't make an announcement at the show. I was expecting to see some of your ideas implemented on a licensed manufacturers platform for the show. I think skill based games will be a big part of the future but I also think the big slot manufacturers will continue to dominate the space. I am sure hoping your deal will be with one of the big companies and not a company that isn't in the Nevada market yet. I think a deal with a "games" company will be disastrous unless partnered with a proven manufacturer.
Quote: teddysNow you've moved up to Black Velvet...
SoCo, recently. My girlfriend has better taste than I do.
Here is some of it:
http://www.cbsnews.com/videos/video-games-that-pay-out-in-vegas/
Quote: MrVI'm pumped.
Just bought a block of NTGL: got some skin in the game.
Let's do this thing!
Follow up:
Wow, I bought some NTGL one week ago, and it has soared over 50% since then.
Penny stocks: not for the faint of heart (my NTEK has plummeted over 90% since I bought it some time ago).
